D Man;
Think you have a few zero and consonant problems.
Topic: Why QQ? - page 13. (Read 10987 times)
Let's also not forget the thread from a few weeks back where BFL forced a refund on an unhappy customer. Doesn't sound like a company that's about to go under to me.
Fixed 
Selling ASICs is far more profitable than mining with them right now. Five minutes on the Custom Hardware forum will tell you that. See: ASICMINER.
300 MH/s. Selling for 2BTC.
Your posts are filled with emotional or self-serving thoughts instead of rational ones.
300 MH/s. Selling for 2BTC.
Your posts are filled with emotional or self-serving thoughts instead of rational ones.
BFL cannot sell their ASICs for that price since they set a far lower price months ago. They have to plow through ten's of thousands of pre-orders before they can jack the price up. Right now, BFL would make more money mining with Jalapeno's than shipping them because they have already collected the cash. Shipping does not affect their bottom line until they reach the end of pre-orders. The latest target for this is 90 days.
ASICMiner did not lock themselves into a contract price months ago and are thus able to capitalize on BFL's failure to deliver.
The part where BFL, who is shipping 5,000 GH/s units RIGHT NOW suddenly has zero pre-orders and can ship to new customers within days.
FYI, BFL is not shipping 5,000 GH/s units. They are shipping a trickle of 5GH/s units.
They have not even delivered 1TH/s of hash power yet.
They have shipped no singles or mini-rig units yet, they do not have an operational prototype for those units yet.
The bulk of their hashrate ordered is for singles and mini-rigs. If those customers canceled their orders but there were still hundreds of Jalapeno's in queue, they would be faced with a cash crunch and still have obligations to continue operations.
So let me get this straight... Dogie is advocating a mass refund on BFL, who has a bunch of mining hardware. Lets say Dogies exceptionally brilliant plan came to pass (which is, in and of itself completely ridiculous, but we'll table that for now). Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do? Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
you dont have the (hundreds of TH of mining equipment ) because if you have it why you are delaying it and not shipping for the buyer?
Hypothetically
Hypothetically
It's cool if you want to be a troll and all, but please at least put some effort into pretending to read.
The hypothetical is what the company will do. A given was that the company is holding hundreds of terahashes worth of equipment.
Tigerfree was correct in pointing out the entire hypothetical was irrelevant because the given was not true.
Josh could have also said:
Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with a call to cancel pre-orders yet having delivered 100% of orders is going to do?
You would be correct in pointing out that the hypothetical is irrelevant to the current discussion of BFL because they have not delivered 100% of their pre-orders. It is not a troll to point out a flaw in a rule for a hypothetical.
This entire post is based on a hypothetical. An absurd one at that, which would have the exact opposite effect of what it foolishly intended.
You assume that BFL did not use the pre-order money to fund operations. Bad assumption. BFL stated specifically that they were soliciting the pre-order money to develop the ASIC. Then magically after 11 months of development they didn't spend a dime of pre-order money? Not likely. The only evidence to support BFL in this is Josh's statement to the contrary.
What did Bear Stearns say right before they went bankrupt? "We are fine, we are profitable, your money is safe, we are doing great".
What did Lehman Brothers say right before they went bankrupt? "We are fine, we are profitable, your money is safe, we are doing great".
If BFL would be bankrupted by a run on refunds, they surely would not admit it here. Such a statement could precipitate a run on their operating funds and put the company out of business.
If you thought you could deliver on time in the first place, why wouldn't you have just solo mined? You've said yourself how much easier and profitable it would be. Ah yes, because you never thought you could deliver, but instead prayed on the trusting community, pooling their funds for your own greed.
The Herp and Derp are strong with this one.
If you thought you could deliver on time in the first place, why wouldn't you have just solo mined? You've said yourself how much easier and profitable it would be. Ah yes, because you never thought you could deliver, but instead prayed on the trusting community, pooling their funds for your own greed.
So let me get this straight... Dogie is advocating a mass refund on BFL, who has a bunch of mining hardware. Lets say Dogies exceptionally brilliant plan came to pass (which is, in and of itself completely ridiculous, but we'll table that for now). Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do? Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
you dont have the (hundreds of TH of mining equipment ) because if you have it why you are delaying it and not shipping for the buyer?
Hypothetically
Hypothetically
It's cool if you want to be a troll and all, but please at least put some effort into pretending to read.
The hypothetical is what the company will do. A given was that the company is holding hundreds of terahashes worth of equipment.
Tigerfree was correct in pointing out the entire hypothetical was irrelevant because the given was not true.
Josh could have also said:
Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with a call to cancel pre-orders yet having delivered 100% of orders is going to do?
You would be correct in pointing out that the hypothetical is irrelevant to the current discussion of BFL because they have not delivered 100% of their pre-orders. It is not a troll to point out a flaw in a rule for a hypothetical.
So let me get this straight... Dogie is advocating a mass refund on BFL, who has a bunch of mining hardware. Lets say Dogies exceptionally brilliant plan came to pass (which is, in and of itself completely ridiculous, but we'll table that for now). Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do? Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
I am impressed. Who has high jacked Josh's account? This new Josh makes sense, does not swear and is straight to the point. I am not sure I can accept him. I was getting used to the old Josh. Please give him his account back. Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
So let me get this straight... Dogie is advocating a mass refund on BFL, who has a bunch of mining hardware. Lets say Dogies exceptionally brilliant plan came to pass (which is, in and of itself completely ridiculous, but we'll table that for now). Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do? Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
If you weren't scared, you wouldn't be posting here. You've done more than I ever could have to verify just how precarious your position is.
Oh and, if you have all those 100s of THs, why aren't you sending out more than 100GH of orders? Ah yes.... next week right?
+1
So let me get this straight... Dogie is advocating a mass refund on BFL, who has a bunch of mining hardware. Lets say Dogies exceptionally brilliant plan came to pass (which is, in and of itself completely ridiculous, but we'll table that for now). Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do? Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
you dont have the (hundreds of TH of mining equipment ) because if you have it why you are delaying it and not shipping for the buyer?
So let me get this straight..
A guy who has invested in all other mining projects BESIDES BFL is leading a movement for BFL people to cancel preorders?
First.. This whole idea of a refund tsunami is a little too late. They are shipping.. k9quaint says there are now BFL posts on the front page complaining about not getting product. Maybe you didn't actually read the posts but 3 out of 4 of them currently are regarding PRODUCTS RECEIVED. The 1/4 is the "BFL fucks us over again" thread. Yeah, that thread is going to be great sandwiched in between "I GOT MY JALAPENO!!" and "I'M GETTING 5.6GH/s ON THIS 240$ DEVICE!!!" Sorry to all of you BFL naysayers but even if they are JUST shipping Jalapenos right now.. they are SHIPPING. The more people that receive them the more this Custom Hardware forum is going to be flooded with "JALAPENO NUMBERS/JALAPENO POWER NUMBERS/JALAPENO OVERCLOCKING/MY JALAPENO IS AWESOME!/ETC". Game over.. this has probably given them such a huge boost in preorders coming in for all products that they could refund everyone from June-Dec and still not have to cut any staff.
Second.. Nice try attempting to get people to cancel their devices so they won't cut into your mining profits, but it won't work. Do you REALLY think that people who are now sitting at 10 months of waiting are going to only NOW ask for a refund? Now that they are shipping? Now that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and no.. it's not a train coming at us. It's now getting to be a little more than obvious that BFL is not going anywhere. People who invested like I did in the earlier days and have been patient are not going to all of a sudden, lose that patience. What, am I going to get my 1K back from BFL and buy.. 3 USB miners? Throw away my possibility of 40GH/s for 900MH/s? I'd rather have a coinflip chance to get 40GH/s this month or next than have 3 USB miners hashing at 900MH/s total next week
Third, are you really crying about threads about crying? Someone should revoke your internet privileges.
A guy who has invested in all other mining projects BESIDES BFL is leading a movement for BFL people to cancel preorders?
First.. This whole idea of a refund tsunami is a little too late. They are shipping.. k9quaint says there are now BFL posts on the front page complaining about not getting product. Maybe you didn't actually read the posts but 3 out of 4 of them currently are regarding PRODUCTS RECEIVED. The 1/4 is the "BFL fucks us over again" thread. Yeah, that thread is going to be great sandwiched in between "I GOT MY JALAPENO!!" and "I'M GETTING 5.6GH/s ON THIS 240$ DEVICE!!!" Sorry to all of you BFL naysayers but even if they are JUST shipping Jalapenos right now.. they are SHIPPING. The more people that receive them the more this Custom Hardware forum is going to be flooded with "JALAPENO NUMBERS/JALAPENO POWER NUMBERS/JALAPENO OVERCLOCKING/MY JALAPENO IS AWESOME!/ETC". Game over.. this has probably given them such a huge boost in preorders coming in for all products that they could refund everyone from June-Dec and still not have to cut any staff.
Second.. Nice try attempting to get people to cancel their devices so they won't cut into your mining profits, but it won't work. Do you REALLY think that people who are now sitting at 10 months of waiting are going to only NOW ask for a refund? Now that they are shipping? Now that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and no.. it's not a train coming at us. It's now getting to be a little more than obvious that BFL is not going anywhere. People who invested like I did in the earlier days and have been patient are not going to all of a sudden, lose that patience. What, am I going to get my 1K back from BFL and buy.. 3 USB miners? Throw away my possibility of 40GH/s for 900MH/s? I'd rather have a coinflip chance to get 40GH/s this month or next than have 3 USB miners hashing at 900MH/s total next week
Third, are you really crying about threads about crying? Someone should revoke your internet privileges.
However, I can understand you begging people to stop giving BFL bad press. 2 days ago, there was not a single thread on the front page of Custom Hardware about BFL. As it should be IMHO.
i very much doubt that there was no threads talking about BF even for half a second. Even the stupid KNC thread is polluted with BFL bullshit. I go in that thread to read stuff about knc, but nooo we can't behave like normal people on this forum.
So let me get this straight... Dogie is advocating a mass refund on BFL, who has a bunch of mining hardware. Lets say Dogies exceptionally brilliant plan came to pass (which is, in and of itself completely ridiculous, but we'll table that for now). Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do? Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
If you weren't scared, you wouldn't be posting here. You've done more than I ever could have to verify just how precarious your position is.
He's pointing out the obviously flawed logic in your idea.
The "plan" is so illogical that even if was realistically possible, it would likely end up helping BFL by giving a better profit margin on units already produced being sold at $274 going forward instead of $150 (similarly increased profit margins on the 25/50 GH/s), where most of the proposed "refund exodus" was supposed to take place.
Oh, and as a bonus it would help clear out the pre-order queue that is likely holding back a lot of potential prospective buyers from purchasing BFL right now.
So the final result would be:
- BFL earns higher profits
- Everyone who didn't refund is bumped up in the queue
- Refunders get their original value back in $
Oh and, if you have all those 100s of THs, why aren't you sending out more than 100GH of orders? Ah yes.... next week right?
...again, the logical conclusion of time wasted going through the proposed Call to arms hypothetically means that BFL has hardware that nobody buys. Therefore they can mine with it.
It's so refreshing to see someone with a brain posting. Bonus points for your taste in TV.
People who don't have preorders with BFL should not be QQ on these forums.
Exactly what i've been saying on other bfl related threads. If you don't have business with them STFU. If you do have an order, feel free to whine. Everything has already been said in regards to sony, delays, waht josh ate for breakfast, etc. Stop rehashing it on every thread, everyone knows and has made thier decision to stay or get refunds.
If the BFL sockpuppets would stop posting misinformation, I think most people would stop responding. However, I can understand you begging people to stop giving BFL bad press. 2 days ago, there was not a single thread on the front page of Custom Hardware about BFL. As it should be IMHO. But customers keep complaining about not having the product they ordered 11 months ago...
At this point BFL has such a tiny piece of the overall hashing rate and is showing few signs of being able to catch up to ASICMiner & Avalon. BFL's customers have paid such enormous opportunity costs already, I just don't see BFL being relevant to Bitcoin hashing for much longer. If KNCMiner delivers, that would be the nail in the coffin.
P.S. Miners who are looking out for their wallet should encourage BFL investors to not refund. Refunded capital would go to Avalon or ASICMiner and result in more actual hashing power deployed sooner than BFL can deliver.
So let me get this straight... Dogie is advocating a mass refund on BFL, who has a bunch of mining hardware. Lets say Dogies exceptionally brilliant plan came to pass (which is, in and of itself completely ridiculous, but we'll table that for now). Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do? Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
If you weren't scared, you wouldn't be posting here. You've done more than I ever could have to verify just how precarious your position is.
Oh and, if you have all those 100s of THs, why aren't you sending out more than 100GH of orders? Ah yes.... next week right?
So let me get this straight... Dogie is advocating a mass refund on BFL, who has a bunch of mining hardware. Lets say Dogies exceptionally brilliant plan came to pass (which is, in and of itself completely ridiculous, but we'll table that for now). Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do? Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.
For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
I find it disgustingly hypocritical that in a community of libertarian anarcho-capitalists some of you want to run to government agencies and ask them to attack a company that will make mining more competitive.
If you are encouraging government involvement, and you don't even have an order in with BFL, you are scum, and a disgrace to this community.
If you are encouraging government involvement, and you don't even have an order in with BFL, you are scum, and a disgrace to this community.
As an anarchist we should simply stop buying their products considering they do not value the work force or the consumers they are producing for. You do know what anarchists want right or LIBERTARIANS are right? I think you might want to rethink what you define them as. I for one as a Libertarian do not want a company to disregard it's ethical obligations as that would infringe on the rights of the people who put faith in them.
Seriously what reeks to high heaven here are not those asking the government to step in but those would invoke "libertarianism" as some how a reason for a corporate entity to lie to people. Ignorant. Maybe you need to read up on Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDHBvQRyOr0 Noam Chomsky: On Anarchism Libertarian Socialism. What a real Anarchist / Libertarian looks like. DEMOCRACY THROUGH OUT ALL SOCIETY.
Chomsky is going after the petro-chemical/millitary industrial complex, OK?
He has more important shit to deal with than BFL!
I am waiting on BFL to ship, but I'm not going to write a letter to Chomsky, because he is probably busy resolving the Israeli/Palestinian conflict er sum such shit.
If you don't see the hypocrisy of a bitcoin miner going to a federal regulating agency to go after BFL, especially if they don't even have an order with BFL, you are blinded by your own agenda.
I find it disgustingly hypocritical that in a community of libertarian anarcho-capitalists some of you want to run to government agencies and ask them to attack a company that will make mining more competitive.
If you are encouraging government involvement, and you don't even have an order in with BFL, you are scum, and a disgrace to this community.
If you are encouraging government involvement, and you don't even have an order in with BFL, you are scum, and a disgrace to this community.
As an anarchist we should simply stop buying their products considering they do not value the work force or the consumers they are producing for. You do know what anarchists want right or LIBERTARIANS are right? I think you might want to rethink what you define them as. I for one as a Libertarian do not want a company to disregard it's ethical obligations as that would infringe on the rights of the people who put faith in them.
Seriously what reeks to high heaven here are not those asking the government to step in but those would invoke "libertarianism" as some how a reason for a corporate entity to lie to people. Ignorant. Maybe you need to read up on Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDHBvQRyOr0 Noam Chomsky: On Anarchism Libertarian Socialism. What a real Anarchist / Libertarian looks like. DEMOCRACY THROUGH OUT ALL SOCIETY.
People who don't have preorders with BFL should not be QQ on these forums.
Exactly what i've been saying on other bfl related threads. If you don't have business with them STFU. If you do have an order, feel free to whine. Everything has already been said in regards to sony, delays, waht josh ate for breakfast, etc. Stop rehashing it on every thread, everyone knows and has made thier decision to stay or get refunds.
Dogie probably whined and cried for months about BFL being a scam.
Now that they are shipping and he decided not to order he is venting his anger at BFL itself instead of blaming himself (because that hurts too much).
Don't blame the company, blame your own stupidity Dogie.
Now that they are shipping and he decided not to order he is venting his anger at BFL itself instead of blaming himself (because that hurts too much).
Don't blame the company, blame your own stupidity Dogie.
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