Topic: Why QQ? - page 8. (Read 10987 times)

He can still see my posts. But since I am quoting you, for how much longer I cannot say.
Everyone knows that a few early BFL orders can be converted into more money than they were bought for. Greater fools abound on these forums (I use you as exhibit A). But later orders are worthless. If KNCMiner or Avalon delivers, the secondary market for BFL will evaporate.

Asking for a refund just guarantees you get screwed by BFL. Holding on to a day 1 BFL order until KNCMiner & Avalon deliver (or BFL delivers) is just people trying to salvage a little bit out of 11 months of fail.

I liked how you just called names without ever debating any points of my argument. Well played sir. Run away and bury your head in the sand. Seems to be about what you're good for...

Which was to refund his money AGAINST HIS WILL! Even a loudmouth complainer troll had to be dragged out kicking and screaming from his order! Get it?


So it's all about spite now at this point, is it? He's no longer operating in his own self-interest, he just wants to stick it to BFL...?  

If that were really the case, he'd just sell his pre-order for 2-4 times what he paid for it, and be done with it. Why is it that your opinions rarely match up with reality?


And yet your opinion of what others should do doesn't appear to match up with the majority of customers who are making their OWN decisions as to their own self-interest. It's amazing how out of touch you can be. A select few people ARE selling their spots in line, and that's fine. They're making that decision, believing it's the best option for them at this point. But the fact that most people aren't selling (and the few that are, are commanding a handsome price) indicates a strong market confidence in BFL.


Who knows? The market can determine that. The right price is exactly what somebody out there is willing to pay. I have no idea what somebody's willing to pay.

I agree with you that anything since January is probably worth precious little over 'face value' on the open market at this point. But that remains totally irrelevant. Anybody who loses confidence can just as easily request a refund as sell an order at 'face value'. The current market value on those orders however pretty clearly remains higher than face value to its current owners. Otherwise they'd just get a refund.


Oooooh, what next? Are you gonna call me a doodie head?  

Every post you make further solidifies, in my mind, how much of an idiot you are.  The lesser part of me secretly hopes BFL fails and that you and a select few are the ones left holding the bag. However,  I'd be equally satisfied if you end up so embarrassed with yourself that you disappear and the rest of us are never tasked with reading your bullshit again.

I'm adding you to my ignore list, which should have been done long ago.

Who's angry    Just stating my current situation..................so you & others can see where I'm coming from.

Wrenchmonkey rage incoming. Wrecked by Unacceptable and wrenchmonkey turns on him like a rabid squirrel.

They would do to him what they did to Xian.

He has waited 11 months, he doesn't want all patience that to turn into an interest free loan to BFL.

IMO, day 1 customers should sell to the greater fool if they can. Then re-invest in Avalon or KNCMiner. Who knows when the supply of fools will run out?
Bad news from BFL or good news from KNCMiner could flush that "market" down the toilet.
Day 1 orders of mini-rigs or singles should not complain lest BFL turn their patience into an interest free loan and a potential lawsuit against an empty shell of a company.

What about day 90 orders? or day 180 orders? or day 270 orders? What is the value of an BFL order from April on the open market? Probably zilch.

FYI, that isn't my ass you are trying to hand to me, it is the ass you have been talking out of since you arrived. I will be happy to dispose of it for you. However, Josh might miss it next time he wants to take a crap.

You just reiterated my entire point. The market demand and your own rational self-interest is what is driving your decisions. Not some asshat with zero vested interest, standing on a soap box.

I don't get how you get angry when I point this out, and then confirm that these are EXACTLY the reasons for your behavior. Nobody else is selling. BFL, for now, owns the market. That may change soon enough, but in the mean time, market forces are exactly what are driving your (and any other rational human being's) behavior. No reason to take offense to that.

I'm not going get 30GH for $650 anywhere else,for a long time yet anyhow...................I've waited this long,another few weeks or a month ain't much,at least as far the updates are saying  

No one,no one has anything ready now,that is within my pricerange at least,so I'll just keep quiet & wait  

Trust me,if I had ordered as late as october,I would have asked for a refund already  

I have gone "elsewhere"  

The floor is yours 

Ahh yes, the bipolarism of the BFL customer scorned. All talk, no walk. If you've got 'elsewhere' to get your ASIC needs met, go for it. I call bullshit. Why would you be so hell-bent on keeping your BFL order if you had somebody else to meet your needs?



"Retaliating"? Oh my! But HOW praytell? Are they gonna come beat him up? Nooooo. Are they gonna cut off the head of his prized horse and leave it in his bed? Noooo.

How are they gonna "retaliate"? Maybe, cancel an order that he and the rest of the market REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want? Bingo! If it were just a matter of them canceling an order, and him going someplace else, it wouldn't be much incentive to prevent him badmouthing a company. So CLEARLY the market really fucking wants these things, right? Right.

Market forces at work. Further demonstrating that you're not going to convince people to demand refunds en masse. Nor will those people demanding refunds have any meaningful bearing on BFL's order queue. Because for every potential day 1 order spot that gets opened up, there are 10 people ready and willing to jump on it. If another company comes along with ability to deliver faster, at a competitive price, people will no longer cling to their pre-orders, and will go elsewhere.

Market forces, son, market forces. Not rocket science.

And with that, I do believe this ass belongs to you. Let me just hand that back to ya.

Thank you K9  

Read my sig.............................................

There are certainly dozens of people who are very upset with BFL while their determined supporters can be counted on a single hand.
I just happen to have the patience to debunk your crap ad infinitum.


Wrenchmonkey reading comprehension at work again. That is Josh instilling the fear of BFL order cancellation in people. Unacceptable does not want to be punished like Xian was. He is rightfully afraid to speak to speak his mind for fear of BFL retaliating. Until Xian resolves the legal dispute, people with early orders are wise to keep silent, or at least complain via an alias.

Yeah,"market forces"................forces me to look elsewhere for my ASIC needs 

You have given up again. I suppose BFL is paying you whether you get schooled here or not.

You wouldn't believe the documentation provided by a federal court. You still believe Sonny Vleisides is a saint. Nothing I can link to would change your mind in the slightest. My links are for the people reading your sad little diatribes.

You have given up again. I suppose BFL is paying you whether you get schooled here or not.


You cannot be convinced, but every time you make an idiotic statement and I catch you in it with facts, other people might notice.
Since you are typing right now with Josh's nuts in your mouth, I wouldn't bring up fetish level obsessions if I were you. 
If BFL delivers their mini-rigs before KNCMiner delivers a Saturn, BFL might still avoid the fate of bASIC.
BFL still has a shot at being the DeLorean of bitcoin mining. 

That's funny, because your sexual-fetish-level fanaticism was here on the forum WELL before either of us got here. So who's providing a 'counterpoint' to whom, exactly? Your type are a dime-a-dozen on this forum, guy. You're all predictable, all fanatics, and all using the same tired talking points.


BAM! Market forces at work!  

I have a dog in this & would LOVE to express my feelings/presumptions/speculations....................but I'm not losing my day 1 preorder over it 

Just deliver my 30GH unit BFL.................for the love of god 

You you keep changing the subject and declaring that you refuse to discuss the previous subject further because...
No reason yet supplied other than some vague complaint about "remaining within hypotheical bounds to stay in rational terms." Sounds like code for capitulation.

You may refuse to discuss the topic of the thread all you like. My purpose here is not to convince you or wrenchmonkey or any of the other BFL fanbois to change your stripes. That cannot be done. My purpose here is to provide a counterpoint to your reckless optimism and willful ignorance.

 


Can't speak to that, as you provide no quotes or sources, and I can't trust your quotes/sources anyway, as you've clearly demonstrated your MO of distortion and deceit by altering or removing context.


*yawn*

Yes, congratulations, you've convinced me to give up on rehashing your sexual-fetish-level obsession with BFL and Josh.  

I don't care whether they are "mistaken" or deceiving. People "mistakenly" spend all their company's cash all the time. Usually they are "mistaken" in front of a bankruptcy judge.

There are plenty of statements by Josh (like the power measurements that they took on the chips they didn't have that said they met their projections that they have since admitted they did not meet) that were clearly lies (some would call it marketing) to put pressure on their competitors and reassure their pre-order base (which they had to keep on the hook for another 6 months).

You are blinded by your undying love for BFL. You have never admitted they have ever done anything shady or wrong. I don't ever expect you to.

Good idea, I already crushed you on those arguments and simply would have linked to the threads where you left with your tail between your legs.  

20 people was the last headcount BFL gave us. That is easily a million alone in salary over the course of a year. They outsourced the design of a 100% hand routed ASIC @ 65nm with a 7.5 mm2 die size. You can fit 800,000 gates per square millimeter on 65nm, so their die could hold several million. That sort of chip complexity will cost you easily $500K in NRE. They had to redo the design (and have admitted to it) so even more money spent. Don't even get me started on all the taxes they face on the money they have collected for pre-orders.

Which parts do they have exactly? They have not yet successfully made the chips run at a density that would make a mini-rig or full size single viable. How could they have power supplies, or PCBS, or case mountings, or components for the PCBs picked out yet? Why do their chip pre-orders (limited to 100,000) face 100 days till delivery? I thought they had hundreds of TH/s of chips lying around.

How could they have stockpiled parts for a product that does not yet exist? If they stockpiled parts and they can't make the design work from their stockpiles, wouldn't that be worse? I am giving BFL the benefit of the doubt by saying they don't have a warehouse full of parts that they cannot build a product from.

What you have is months of missed targets, over-promising, and under-delivering. There's a big difference between missing a target, and deceit. I've said time and time again that I agree that BFL is overly optimistic.

However, being wrong about when they could deliver something does not equate to a false statement of fact. If BFL says "2 weeks" I think there's good reason to discount it, as they're just waaaaaaay too optimistic about this stuff.

If they say "We have not touched any pre-order money" there's no good reason not to believe it, other than personal bias, and your overpowering personal need to think of BFL as criminals and scammers.


Once again, not bothering with it...