What the fuck is qq
I am 12 what is this?
lol could not help it.
No need they're doing it to them selves. GO TEAM BFL
and die lol
Topic: Why QQ? - page 9. (Read 10994 times)
what is this?
lol could not help it.
No need they're doing it to them selves. GO TEAM BFL
and die lol
You were asking me to speculate on a company's operating capital with nothing but bits and pieces of information and conspiracy theories. I'm all good on that garbage.
Why are you still talking about pages and pages ago? It was a hypothetical, and a ludicrous one admittedly, and you're just on and on about it when I've literally been done with it since well before this point:
You change the subject and I address your latest posts. You led this discussion, if you don't like where it goes, try staying on the subject you want to talk about.
False. Your perception is pretty poor. I stopped discussing it with you because you are apparently incapable of staying focused.
Try to notice that the discussion has moved on without you.
Wrenchmonkey summed up quite clearly why that happened, I'm sorry if/that you can't comprehend it.
Once again you fail to address your logic gaps. I spelled them out in great detail.
You change the subject. You completely dodge my comments.
I know I am winning because you refuse to discuss it. That is the hallmark of willful ignorance.
Winning what? An internet argument? Congrats, man!
I also choose not to discuss (or, in your case, end discussions) with small children about finances when they don't understand how market forces operate. It's not worth my time.
Another change of subject and more backpedaling. Run along. /pats ThatDGuy on the head.
Perhaps you can read about a real life example of what I am contending that occurred a few weeks before you joined us on these boards:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/basic-btc-refunds-list-v20-152980
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/legal-course-of-action-discussion-basic-bitcoinasic-143496
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-basic-refund-tracking-thread-137876
Who am I kidding, you won't click on a single one of those links about a bitcoin ASIC mining company that got capsized by a refund wave.
As soon as word got out that BFL could not pay the refund requests, nobody would think they could afford to finance the purchase of parts to construct their units.
They've clearly got SOME level of parts stock on hand, as they're currently assembling and shipping Jalapenos. Furhtermore, I can think of about 18,000 reasons why I would think they could afford to purchase parts for my units. See below:
I am EXTREMELY confident that I would not be the only one who would be jumping on board to get at the front of the line for currently-shipping Jalpenos. A couple dozen medium-sized buyers, and it doesn't matter if they are 'financially insolvent' the day all the refund requests go in. The very instant that queue goes to zero (hypothetically, of course, since we know that's not gonna happen), their bank account will fill right back up
You were asking me to speculate on a company's operating capital with nothing but bits and pieces of information and conspiracy theories. I'm all good on that garbage.
Why are you still talking about pages and pages ago? It was a hypothetical, and a ludicrous one admittedly, and you're just on and on about it when I've literally been done with it since well before this point:
You change the subject and I address your latest posts. You led this discussion, if you don't like where it goes, try staying on the subject you want to talk about.
You admitted you would not speculate or entertain anyone's speculation on the state of BFL's finances.
Speculation based on nothing is not the same as speculation based on available facts. You have ZERO founded reason to assume that BFL has in fact touched the pre-order money, when the public information available states that this isn't the case. The only reason you have chosen to assume that the pre-order money is gone, is your own personal bias and hatred for BFL. You have no evidence that it isn't there. Zero, zilch, zip, nada.
BFL run by a person convicted of fraud and still on probation. I suppose you will resurrect your "IRS witchhunt" theory and I will have to post Sonny's plea bargain agreement again where testified against his co-conspirators in exchange for a light sentence.
BFL refusing to identify their source of funding and it's size (GIANT red flag in the start up community). I suppose you will say that mentioning once in a PR statement that a secret and nameless "private equity group" has backed them is "proof". We can have that discussion again, I would enjoy humiliated you over it again.
11 months of operations, photos, claims of improvements made to their "factory", employees hired. I have plenty of evidence of them spending money.
I don't need to prove it is there, they do. All you have is a statement by Josh (who's track record speaks for itself) that they still have all the pre-order money.
Hardly "speculation based on nothing". Quite the opposite.
You were asking me to speculate on a company's operating capital with nothing but bits and pieces of information and conspiracy theories. I'm all good on that garbage.
Why are you still talking about pages and pages ago? It was a hypothetical, and a ludicrous one admittedly, and you're just on and on about it when I've literally been done with it since well before this point:
You change the subject and I address your latest posts. You led this discussion, if you don't like where it goes, try staying on the subject you want to talk about.
False. Your perception is pretty poor. I stopped discussing it with you because you are apparently incapable of staying focused.
Try to notice that the discussion has moved on without you.
Wrenchmonkey summed up quite clearly why that happened, I'm sorry if/that you can't comprehend it.
Once again you fail to address your logic gaps. I spelled them out in great detail.
You change the subject. You completely dodge my comments.
I know I am winning because you refuse to discuss it. That is the hallmark of willful ignorance.
You were asking me to speculate on a company's operating capital with nothing but bits and pieces of information and conspiracy theories. I'm all good on that garbage.
Why are you still talking about pages and pages ago? It was a hypothetical, and a ludicrous one admittedly, and you're just on and on about it when I've literally been done with it since well before this point:
You change the subject and I address your latest posts. You led this discussion, if you don't like where it goes, try staying on the subject you want to talk about.
You admitted you would not speculate or entertain anyone's speculation on the state of BFL's finances.
Speculation based on nothing is not the same as speculation based on available facts. You have ZERO founded reason to assume that BFL has in fact touched the pre-order money, when the public information available states that this isn't the case. The only reason you have chosen to assume that the pre-order money is gone, is your own personal bias and hatred for BFL. You have no evidence that it isn't there. Zero, zilch, zip, nada.
Further silly hypotheticals based on asinine speculation and zero fact
Not worth addressing.As soon as word got out that BFL could not pay the refund requests, nobody would think they could afford to finance the purchase of parts to construct their units.
They've clearly got SOME level of parts stock on hand, as they're currently assembling and shipping Jalapenos. Furhtermore, I can think of about 18,000 reasons why I would think they could afford to purchase parts for my units. See below:
If you find a way to clear the queue for us, PLEASE let me know, as I'll place roughly $18,000 of Jalapeno orders, IMMEDIATELY upon learning that there's no longer any backlog. I guarantee you that I am not the only one. I'd be willing to bet my house on it, right there along with others.
So please, do us that favor, and clear out the pre-order queue!
Ready? Go!
So please, do us that favor, and clear out the pre-order queue!
Ready? Go!
I am EXTREMELY confident that I would not be the only one who would be jumping on board to get at the front of the line for currently-shipping Jalpenos. A couple dozen medium-sized buyers, and it doesn't matter if they are 'financially insolvent' the day all the refund requests go in. The very instant that queue goes to zero (hypothetically, of course, since we know that's not gonna happen), their bank account will fill right back up
Sure, Josh claims that they have hundreds of TH/s of parts to build product from, But since they do not yet have a mini-rig or single design that works, which parts exactly will they construct these devices from? Did they buy everything before they knew what they needed to make the devices work (this has already happened once by BFL's own admission)? That is hardly reassuring.
Once again, are you assuming that they are lying, or do you have evidence that they don't actually have the parts? You just said that you think that they've spent up enough money that they could be facing bankruptcy. OK... On what, praytell, did they spend all that money? A year's salary for a small staff? Okay, pretty sure they've already shipped enough Jalpenos to pay for that. Where did all the rest of this allegedly 'all spent up money' go? Come on, guy, which is it? Did they spend the money, or didn't they?
If you (by your own admission) cannot know the state of BFL's finances, how can you be so adamant that a wave of refunds would not bankrupt them?
Without knowledge of BFL's financial state, you cannot know how badly a wave of refunds would affect them.
You will not deviate from the idea that BFL can only benefit from a mass of refund requests. So either you have knowledge of BFL's financial state, or you have speculated on BFL's financial state, or you are simply unwilling to contemplate a scenario where BFL fails.
Which ever one it is, your position is internally inconsistent.
Without knowledge of BFL's financial state, you cannot know how badly a wave of refunds would affect them.
You will not deviate from the idea that BFL can only benefit from a mass of refund requests. So either you have knowledge of BFL's financial state, or you have speculated on BFL's financial state, or you are simply unwilling to contemplate a scenario where BFL fails.
Which ever one it is, your position is internally inconsistent.
A unified organized wave of refunds alone, aside from taking place only in your your wildest fantasies, would not be enough. It would require a wave of refunds, as well as a somewhat sustained lack of any replacement orders coming into the queue, and that's unlikely.
There are plenty of scenarios where BFL could fail, but the more likely scenario is that another 1-2 big players jumps in at competitive pricing, and has goods IN STOCK (Say, for example, KNC Miner, and Bitfury). If those guys come online overnight, get proven leigit, and have several TH of mining equipment available for immediate shipment, for a price that's competitive with BFL, well, in that case, the outlook for BFL would not be very good for BFL at that point. That's because MARKET FORCES and rational self-interest would be driving things, not because of some wannabe community organizer with zero skin of his own in the game who reckons he can convince people to abandon their own self-interest, in the interest of making a point.
Once again, you twist the discussion and move the goal post. The argument was never that BFL is too big to fail, or whatever. The argument was that you're not gonna take down BFL by standing on a soap box trying to convince the local farmers to go raze the town grain silos to the ground.
You fail to address your own inconsistencies and wrap yourself in the adulation of the incompetent.
... which is why I had to finally add him to my ignore list
You were asking me to speculate on a company's operating capital with nothing but bits and pieces of information and conspiracy theories. I'm all good on that garbage.
Why are you still talking about pages and pages ago? It was a hypothetical, and a ludicrous one admittedly, and you're just on and on about it when I've literally been done with it since well before this point:
You change the subject and I address your latest posts. You led this discussion, if you don't like where it goes, try staying on the subject you want to talk about.
You admitted you would not speculate or entertain anyone's speculation on the state of BFL's finances.
You admitted it was a ludicrous hyptothetical from BFL Josh.
Now here is a hyptothetical for you:
If BFL had burned through a large chunk of their pre-order money by financing development and operations over the last 11 months, a mass of refunds could bankrupt them.
One ASIC company has already fallen prey to this. The market did not save them, it turned on them. Your speculation that the market would rally to save a company facing bankruptcy is poignant but not realistic. As soon as word got out that BFL could not pay the refund requests, nobody would think they could afford to finance the purchase of parts to construct their units.
Sure, Josh claims that they have hundreds of TH/s of parts to build product from, But since they do not yet have a mini-rig or single design that works, which parts exactly will they construct these devices from? Did they buy everything before they knew what they needed to make the devices work (this has already happened once by BFL's own admission)? That is hardly reassuring.
If you (by your own admission) cannot know the state of BFL's finances, how can you be so adamant that a wave of refunds would not bankrupt them?
Without knowledge of BFL's financial state, you cannot know how badly a wave of refunds would affect them.
You will not deviate from the idea that BFL can only benefit from a mass of refund requests. So either you have knowledge of BFL's financial state, or you have speculated on BFL's financial state, or you are simply unwilling to contemplate a scenario where BFL fails.
Which ever one it is, your position is internally inconsistent.
Outside spectators are able to see it plainly, both the current situation as well as how terribly your position is holding up here. I am not fond of the fact that you're forcing me to rub it in your face but how else are you supposed to give up and move on?
I'm really pulling for you, here. Come back to the light of reality. The trend is your friend.
I'm really pulling for you, here. Come back to the light of reality. The trend is your friend.
You fail to address your own inconsistencies and wrap yourself in the adulation of the incompetent. The light of reality has never shown on you.
After you have been exposed to BFL for more than a couple of "Two more weeks (TM)", you will understand. Some people cannot learn from others mistakes, they must be burned themselves before they can internalize the lesson. It is obvious that you are such a person and therefore we must wait until you are burned by BFL.
Tick tock.
--A functional PayPal Payment Processor.
Problem: Most of the people who received units were not customers, nor were they even paid orders.
Conundrum Question: How was the issue resolved if Paypal did not receive a valid notice of shipments?
Problem: Most of the people who received units were not customers, nor were they even paid orders.
Conundrum Question: How was the issue resolved if Paypal did not receive a valid notice of shipments?
The process of disputing with Paypal then turned into an incident where all customers were asked, point blank, if they still wanted their devices or if they were requesting a refund. (As well as accepting some changes to their purchased hardware.)
Josh from BFL stated that if the process of confirming the order wasn't completed in a reasonable time frame, then they would automatically refunds customers.
Problem: This does not appear to be the case. It appears that customers who did not answer the question were not refund automatically as stated by the rep. This is evident if you look through the BFL forums and recent blog posts.
Statements from BFL seem to indicate that those who did not answer the confirmation request resulted in:
A) Your order was not shipped even if you were next.
B) You did not receive an automatic refund as previously stated by BFL Reps.
----------------------
Question, what does BFL then do with that information?
It appears there was a purpose to the confirmation. This specific process seemed to "mysteriously resolve" the Paypal issue. Yet there are customers who did not answer.
The refunds requested by email are processed at a very lengthy period of time, at times. varying anywhere from 1 day to 1 month.
A large majority of those refunds are processed as "payments" (as opposed to straight forward "refunds") to customers via PayPal.
------------------------------
What happens if BFL then loses the only Payment Processor they have at this time? (BitPay not included as they are virtual currency.)
Can BFL (affordably) refund people using Bank Wires and BitCoin payments?
Would losing Paypal cause immeasurable issues? Would it result in big time issues when issuing refunds? I think so.
Your original point that a mass refund would help BFL remains idiotic. Your defense of it is dogmatic. Saying that you are after some charity money from BFL was sarcasm, you would not be worth it.
An uncontrolled refund process would be detrimental to BFL.
I am going to wear my SUPER Troll costume. Beware, I rarely put it on.
---------------------------
Think about it for a bit, if you are BFL what are your weakest links in a controlled refund process?
Think.
Well, if you are them, they rely on:
--A functional bank account or two.
--A functional PayPal Payment Processor.
--A functional Website.
--A pragmatic presence with (very) visible but (very) low interaction.
------------------
They are (I am pretty sure) already in violation of Paypal's policy.
Point 1: A controlled refund process requires that a company controls its outflow of money. You always should retain control of this process. If the process become an uncontrolled outflow, the company may collapse.
If as company, some customers were to raise the alarm that there are non-standard practices at play which would counter PayPal merchant policies or Term and Conditions, then the company may lose access to the PayPal network. Perhaps even lose access to the MasterCard and Visa network if they got blacklisted.
Point 2: The uncontrolled conditions. In early May, there was an incident where this occurred. Someone let Paypal know that BFL had not shipped a massive quantity of orders. Begrudgingly (it seems) BFL was forced to respond to the complaints and address the issue with their customers.
Suddenly, there was an outflow of orders. Strangely, it was mentioned By BFL that they were required to show proof (to Paypal) that they were shipping out units to customers.
Problem: Most of the people who recieved units were not customers, nor were they even paid orders.
Conundrum Question: How was the issue resolved if Paypal did not receive a valid notice of shipments?
Apparently anybody who doesn't fabricate their own 'facts' is ignorant.
"If you don't know the answer, and there's no reliable way for you to determine a factual answer, just make up some wild speculation that has little-to-no-bearing on any of the facts you DO have. Be sure to base it all on your preexisting opinions of the company, and add as much bullshit as you can. Otherwise it would be confirmation bias, and willful ignorance, and stuff."
"If you don't know the answer, and there's no reliable way for you to determine a factual answer, just make up some wild speculation that has little-to-no-bearing on any of the facts you DO have. Be sure to base it all on your preexisting opinions of the company, and add as much bullshit as you can. Otherwise it would be confirmation bias, and willful ignorance, and stuff."
Look up hypothetical, and maybe take a nap to calm down? I don't know, running out of suggestions for you.
Let me link to you the message in this thread where you declare you don't care about the current state of BFL's finances while discussing the effects a mass of refunds would have on BFL's finances.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/why-qq-226608
I will also link the content of that post here, so you cannot misrepresent it.
Explain where their operating capital for the last 11 months and the next few weeks came from.
Don't care. Not their accountant.Talk about willful ignorance + confirmation bias. Classic case thereof.
I already linked the wikipedia page explaining hypothetical logic and the fallacy that you were engaged in.
I'll just add that to the list of things you didn't read or didn't understand.
As for the other section, I have not personally been involved in said displays of arrogance. Having read through some of the history it is apparent why people are very upset. I do genuinely sympathize with those in that situation.
That said, I have seen the reactions of those people first-hand in just two of these threads and reading countless others. It becomes quickly apparent that emotions are intrinsically tied with the responses of those who have had their bridges burned. My milieu presents me with an opportunity to express what the 3-4 month miner and current consumer of ASICs perceives in the market.
Even in the process of presenting this view, I've been labelled as
- shill
- desperate
- believing magic is responsible for current market forces
So, while I am in no way acting as an apologist for anyone's behavior - I can absolutely see what kind of response can be expected from slighted ASIC customers of ~1 year+
If only you had done actual research on BFL, people might have more patience with you. You say you are aware of the history and even read through some of it. Perhaps you should take a few days to actually educate yourself before you declare things to be "absurd" or "trolling". If the veterans of the forums are short with you it is because your type is a dime a dozen here. Your type shows up and wonders why regurgitation of the BFL party line is met with hostility. Dismissing all evidence that does not originate with BFL is certainly not going to endear you either.
I hate to burst your bubble, but I have little desire to be endeared to you. Actually none, or negative desire if we really want to be specific.
OP's idea was, and is, absurd. Zero "veterans" of the thread have been short with me aside from you, and "short" is hardly the word to describe what you've been typing. Dribble, babble? I don't even know any more.
I'm not trolling any company line. I'm not a type. Continue to try and fabricate associations between me and a company all you want, but you're just flailing - and flailing poorly, at that.
Name: ThatDGuy
Posts: 237
Position: Full Member
Date Registered: April 25, 2013, 04:01:07 PM
Last Active: Today at 08:35:26 PM
Sorry, but you are a type. Uneducated, unaware, wide-eyed at bitcoin, and running wild with confirmation bias.
You got called out for not understanding what a hypothetical is after insulting someone for rightfully pointing out it's absurdity.
You didn't realize that BFL could not actually have 100s of TH/s of mining equipment.
You didn't realize the composition of BFL's order book.
You have little to no idea of the history of BFL, you only know that there is hostility surrounding them.
I have doubts the OP *could* organize a mass refund, but I have no doubt that one could appear and would be extremely harmful to BFL's business. KNCMiner's product has twice the bang for the buck and is looming on the horizon. If KNCMiner delivers, BFL's order book will vanish because people would rather get twice as much for their money.
You backpedal and derail discussions.
You willfully ignore key areas of the discussion because they are inconvenient to your argument.
Put a little more effort into your subject before you start spouting off on it. Don't cherry pick data that fits your argument and ignore data that does not.
Your original point that a mass refund would help BFL remains idiotic. Your defense of it is dogmatic. Saying that you are after some charity money from BFL was sarcasm, you would not be worth it.
It's irrelevant to the market right now. You choose different proof.
As I said, whenever you're ready to stop talking about the past, either in this thread or in the history of ASICs and start looking at what's going on right now, I'm ready to listen. I'm sorry the present doesn't line up with how you wanted it to.
You're just babbling now. I'm sorry you got so worked up and emotional about all of this.
As I said, whenever you're ready to stop talking about the past, either in this thread or in the history of ASICs and start looking at what's going on right now, I'm ready to listen. I'm sorry the present doesn't line up with how you wanted it to.
You're just babbling now. I'm sorry you got so worked up and emotional about all of this.
It must be so nice for you to just dismiss all things inconvenient to your argument and then declare victory.
According to ThatDGuy:
Would a mass of refunds be harmful or beneficial to BFL? IGNORE BFL'S FINANCIAL SITUATION COMPLETELY!!!
Your position is absurd. It has only grown more so. You are approaching Wrenchmonkey status.
Keep derailing this thread and soon you will be eligible for BFL "charity donations". Cui bono indeed.
So, you're still talking about this? AND adding more conspiratorial plans to try and tie everything together?
I hate to be the one to have to tell you this, but the discussion moved on without you. When you're ready to talk at the big boys and girls table, please let us know.
Your other post here that is letting go of pages-old tangents is a great step!
JUNE 15
R-DAY
Change to the 14th. You want to hit them on a Friday, = they know about the tsunami but can't do anything over the weekend to move funds. Gives time for it to build momentum. R-DAY
Nah. It will take them two weeks to make it that far into their email box. In fact, if you request a refund now, they might just find out by early July.
Yeah, there is literally no way you could get the refunds to hit all at once. BFL would drag their feet processing them and you couldn't reach enough of the pre-order investors to coordinate a single salvo of refunds. A thread full of people who have canceled their orders with BFL would be statistically interesting, but it would be impossible to know what percentage of orders that thread represents. There could still be 90 days of backlog even after a thread with 100 cancellations in it.
According to the data we have, the lion's share of pre-orders (dollar value) is in mini-rigs. If that slice of the order book vanishes due to pre-orders (or never existed in the first place), that would put the screws to BFL. If KNCMiner delivers, expect every real mini-rig order to jump ship since KNCMiner is claiming twice the bang for the buck that BFL is claiming. BFL really needs to get their mini-rig operational and ship the first one.
The next month or so should be very interesting.
As for the other section, I have not personally been involved in said displays of arrogance. Having read through some of the history it is apparent why people are very upset. I do genuinely sympathize with those in that situation.
That said, I have seen the reactions of those people first-hand in just two of these threads and reading countless others. It becomes quickly apparent that emotions are intrinsically tied with the responses of those who have had their bridges burned. My milieu presents me with an opportunity to express what the 3-4 month miner and current consumer of ASICs perceives in the market.
Even in the process of presenting this view, I've been labelled as
- shill
- desperate
- believing magic is responsible for current market forces
So, while I am in no way acting as an apologist for anyone's behavior - I can absolutely see what kind of response can be expected from slighted ASIC customers of ~1 year+
If only you had done actual research on BFL, people might have more patience with you. You say you are aware of the history and even read through some of it. Perhaps you should take a few days to actually educate yourself before you declare things to be "absurd" or "trolling". If the veterans of the forums are short with you it is because your type is a dime a dozen here. Your type shows up and wonders why regurgitation of the BFL party line is met with hostility. Dismissing all evidence that does not originate with BFL is certainly not going to endear you either.
If a company was in such dire financial straits as you are alluding to, why would they force a refund on a customer?
Probably because they didn't consider the negative legal and public-relation repercussions, or choose to deal with the matter civilly ?
I'm not talking about any of the other potential effects.
I'm talking about at a strictly financial level:
If a company is about to run out of money (as k9quaint would allege) WHY would they be giving any money back?
Diminish legal responsibility, and continue the illusion they are competent...
(Note: only *if that's the case, hypothetically speaking)
For what it's worth I think BFL are doing the best they currently can. It's better they ship something than nothing.
What I don't get is the overtones of arrogance when they've demonstrated their ability to consistently miss deadlines and make mistakes, there should really be some evidence of humility on their part. Sme people never want to admit they were wrong, or apologise, but in the face of what's happened a humble response is warranted. The best idea is to bulk chip all and open source pcb design to the community, I actually suggested this in the week before they made that announcemt, but the bridges appear to have already been burnt, when the could have swallowed pride and opened up to some talented community members ready and willing to help!
When I originally posted in response, everything under the parenthetical section wasn't there yet, so I apologize for not being able to respond more fully.
I am in complete agreement with you on:
For what it's worth I think BFL are doing the best they currently can. It's better they ship something than nothing.
As for the other section, I have not personally been involved in said displays of arrogance. Having read through some of the history it is apparent why people are very upset. I do genuinely sympathize with those in that situation.
That said, I have seen the reactions of those people first-hand in just two of these threads and reading countless others. It becomes quickly apparent that emotions are intrinsically tied with the responses of those who have had their bridges burned. My milieu presents me with an opportunity to express what the 3-4 month miner and current consumer of ASICs perceives in the market.
Even in the process of presenting this view, I've been labelled as
- shill
- desperate
- believing magic is responsible for current market forces
So, while I am in no way acting as an apologist for anyone's behavior - I can absolutely see what kind of response can be expected from slighted ASIC customers of ~1 year+
JUNE 15
R-DAY
Change to the 14th. You want to hit them on a Friday, = they know about the tsunami but can't do anything over the weekend to move funds. Gives time for it to build momentum. R-DAY
Nah. It will take them two weeks to make it that far into their email box. In fact, if you request a refund now, they might just find out by early July.
Yeah, there is literally no way you could get the refunds to hit all at once. BFL would drag their feet processing them and you couldn't reach enough of the pre-order investors to coordinate a single salvo of refunds. A thread full of people who have canceled their orders with BFL would be statistically interesting, but it would be impossible to know what percentage of orders that thread represents. There could still be 90 days of backlog even after a thread with 100 cancellations in it.
According to the data we have, the lion's share of pre-orders (dollar value) is in mini-rigs. If that slice of the order book vanishes due to pre-orders (or never existed in the first place), that would put the screws to BFL. If KNCMiner delivers, expect every real mini-rig order to jump ship since KNCMiner is claiming twice the bang for the buck that BFL is claiming. BFL really needs to get their mini-rig operational and ship the first one.
The next month or so should be very interesting.
JUNE 15
R-DAY
Change to the 14th. You want to hit them on a Friday, = they know about the tsunami but can't do anything over the weekend to move funds. Gives time for it to build momentum. R-DAY
Nah. It will take them two weeks to make it that far into their email box. In fact, if you request a refund now, they might just find out by early July.
It's irrelevant to the market right now. You choose different proof.
As I said, whenever you're ready to stop talking about the past, either in this thread or in the history of ASICs and start looking at what's going on right now, I'm ready to listen. I'm sorry the present doesn't line up with how you wanted it to.
You're just babbling now. I'm sorry you got so worked up and emotional about all of this.
As I said, whenever you're ready to stop talking about the past, either in this thread or in the history of ASICs and start looking at what's going on right now, I'm ready to listen. I'm sorry the present doesn't line up with how you wanted it to.
You're just babbling now. I'm sorry you got so worked up and emotional about all of this.
It must be so nice for you to just dismiss all things inconvenient to your argument and then declare victory.
According to ThatDGuy:
Would a mass of refunds be harmful or beneficial to BFL? IGNORE BFL'S FINANCIAL SITUATION COMPLETELY!!!
Your position is absurd. It has only grown more so. You are approaching Wrenchmonkey status.
Keep derailing this thread and soon you will be eligible for BFL "charity donations". Cui bono indeed.
If a company was in such dire financial straits as you are alluding to, why would they force a refund on a customer?
Probably because they didn't consider the negative legal and public-relation repercussions, or choose to deal with the matter civilly ?
I'm not talking about any of the other potential effects.
I'm talking about at a strictly financial level:
If a company is about to run out of money (as k9quaint would allege) WHY would they be giving any money back?
It would be Liability.
Keeping old orders on the books is a liability. Replacing old orders with new orders eliminates the long term liability. There is no incentive in such a scenario to treat people decently. The worse you treat them the better off you are.
It also allows you an opportunity to change your prices on old orders. Same hardware, new price.
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Only if a person is simple minded enough would they not see that the chessboard can be reset if your are astute enough. And if you plug in the scenario I am depicting it makes perfect sense why various actors are taking the attitudes they are assuming. If you think in a simple manner, then a person wouldn't understand.
Keep in mind a money printing machine is being sold. The customer can be treated like walking shit and it won't matter. Tommorrow they will be right back at the order window.
Thank you for an answer to the actual question. So is BFL, by that explanation, treating people decently?
Keep in mind a money printing machine is being sold. The customer can be treated like walking shit and it won't matter. Tommorrow they will be right back at the order window.
Thanks also for writing this: a.k.a. summarizing the law of supply and demand and how you perceive it applying to BFL's situation currently.
The only scenario where such a strategy fails is when you:
A) Aren't able to deliver.
A) Aren't able to deliver.
From my perspective, A) is already happening. While I appreciate the detail you've laid out with the follow-up points, I don't think they'll play out in quite that trickle-down manner suggested given the aforementioned law of supply and demand.
History will ultimately tell one way or the other. In the mean time, as always, I recommend everyone perform their due diligence and make educated decisions.
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