Topic: Why QQ? - page 14. (Read 10987 times)

People who don't have preorders with BFL should not be QQ on these forums.

There are a great number of injustices in the world. Put your efforts into something worthwhile.

If you want something local, how about a call to arms against Herbalife - the biggest pyramid conjob there ever was. Too afraid of Carl Icahn?

Or if you want to stick with cryptocurrencies, take a look at Ripple's pyramid scheme.

I am not a libertarian anarcho-capitalist. I am math geek, computer science geek, and security nerd. I know quite a few Bitcoiners like me.
I don't believe your characterization of the Bitcoin community to be correct.

But your broad point of libertarians running to the government as soon as shit lands on their doorstep is correct.

I find it disgustingly hypocritical that in a community of libertarian anarcho-capitalists some of you want to run to government agencies and ask them to attack a company that will make mining more competitive.
If you are encouraging government involvement, and you don't even have an order in with BFL, you are scum, and a disgrace to this community.

I think the idea behind this is correct, and something like this is a good idea.  That being said, 2 points:

1) I think this decision should be up to the BFL pre-order folks  (which doesn't include me).

2) If what OP said goes down and BFL gets shutdown or whatever, I think, IMHO that it would be a far from guaranteed thing that folks would get their pre-order money back. If anything shutting down the company like this would basically make your preorder money a lost cause. It's one thing to get a financial judicial judgement against a company, but it's quite another thing to get money out of a more-than-bankrupt company. (As far as I know -- not a legal expert, but that's my impression...)

That would be Avalon's chip cost because:
it is a much simpler chip
it using a much larger fab process
they did their own mask and design
they order 100,000+ of chips

BFL's chip cost is much more because:
they use a small process (45nm according to some sources)
they have a larger and more complex chip
they are ordering in hundreds of units which means a multi-project wafer
multi-project wafers mean $30-$60 per chip depending on die size

fan + heatsink alone will run them $10, $15 if it is copper, not $1
you forgot the power brick cord which is at least $5 and packaging which is another $5
so your COGs is $50, not $23

Using the actual values for COGs we get:
$50 for non-BFL ASIC chip components
$60-$120 for ASIC chips in a Jalapeno (2 chips)
Assembly + testing $20 (total WAG since it depends on salaries, rent, and time spent per unit)
So realistically, total COGs is $130 to $190 per unit which means they are probably hemorrhaging money on early pre-orders.
This is why BFL is so touchy about bad press and hostile forum posts. They need more pre-orders because they have burned through 11 months of salaries and rent (at $400K a month for 20 people, that adds up). That is why they jacked the price up on their Jalapeno's by $100 as soon as they had a working prototype, to re-establish their margins.

Misinterpretation OP.

Clearly, Dogie is biased against BFL.
BFL has started delivering which is very evident, all the major costs have now been covered.
The biggest costs has always been with the ASICs the initial design and prefab (masking and what not), once these are done the individual chip cost is extremely low.
Somehow i bet their per chip cost is in the 5$ ballpark now.
Add rest of the HW -> casing, pcb, caps, regs, resistors etc etc. bought in bulk you have something like this cost breakdown:
case 5$
fan 1$
pcb 2$
connectors 5$
on board components: 10$
Total: 23$
Assembly + testing: 20$ per unit.
43$ + chips = 53$ per jalapeno unit. So realisticially 50 to 100$ to mfg single unit.

Since this is an exponential growth business limited by bitcoin valuation, which exponentially raises as mining costs raise, and they are now delivering they are starting to rake in more and more orders each and every day.

Why exponential growth?
Let's assume 5G unit has a steady ROI of 6months after costs (right now more like 1week, in couple of months 3months, in a year probably 11months), and bitcoin price does not fluctuate.
Customer buys 1 unit, 6months later he buys another with the mining revenue, 6months after he buys 2 units, 6months after 4 units and so forth.
Since ROI is more like 1 week now, it goes more like this:
1 week purchase 2nd unit
2nd week purchase 2 more units
4th week purchase 3 more units (ROI is getting longer), now 7 units
6th week purchase 5 more units, total 12
8th week purchase 9 more units, total 21
10th +15 = 36
12th +20 = 56
14th +20 = 86
and so forth.

Now as we start reaching point where ROI takes 11 months, miners suddenly stop purchasing and hoarding, which leads to prices raising as more miners are hoarding, if some major event happens then with several month lead time BTC price will hike and all the miners suddenly sell their BTC and purchase a lot of new equipment, just like what happened lately.

Therefore, as long as BFL is shipping they are getting ever increasing revenue.
The true winner again is the one selling shovels, not digging the gold.


All of this lets me conclude that Dogie has a vested interest in Avalon, Bitfury, KNC or ASICMINER. Probably ASICMINER, and he is trying to guard his investment by spreading FUD and trying to get people to run at BFL at the very last possible moment.
You forget just one thing, BFL likely has in their war chest few thousand BTCs alone, which easily pays the current salaries for some months and the components for next several wafers completion and as per T&C refunds are not guaranteed, even if suddenly 15% asked refund today, they'd probably honor 5% and then stop and keep on shipping.

Nice try troll, but no luck. I think i'll go buy another few 50G units now, ty very much.

Don't know mate, that's for you to mutually agree on with those considering.

Perhaps of you knock heads with those vocally disenchanted Butterfly Labs opponents then you could determine a more pragmatic solution and post a walk through for all concerned?

That would be more eventful than a forum thread expressing disdain and not really going anywhere.

Otherwise all these negative Butterfly Labs threads are nothing but hot air!!!

I thought you were a millionaire at 13, surely you must be able to apply some logic to this...

Walk the talk.

I don't have any money to ask for, but I could try


Ah that was it. Yeah when you follow it through it just gets more and more bullshit. Even the first category, what on earth do you select.

why you dont ask your money back

No you don't, although if you wanted to exert more pressure a phone call and hand written letter sent by registered post would prob raise more eyebrows.

Almost certainly it requires efforts of those on this forum...

http://www.fcc.gov/complaints

Also this would be helpful for you to read:

http://www.bureauveritas.com/wps/wcm/connect/bv_com/Group/Home/About-Us/Our-Business/Our-Business-Consumer-Products/Resources/Frequently+Asked+Questions/FCC

I think you would need to knock heads and create some congruency as to where you agree the fault lies and what you are complaining about exactly...

Because I'm not a US citizen. I did actually look at the FCC reporting a few months ago just for luls and I think you have to call a US number?

I love the idea.  I cancelled my order months ago.  But since I can not request another refund, I'll send them a postcard of my anus to really stir the pot (and it's a mess down there)

get em boys



original art credit goes to https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/moltenmich-95506

"Cry Cry" the Q's are meant to look like eyes tearing. A more accurate description would be "T_T".. but.. what do I know?

What the fuck is qq

To be honest you've already shown how one man could potentially take them down:

    BFL would undoubtedly get bukaki'ed by government agencies if an investigation was to occur. Assets frozen etc
    BFL would get spit roasted if the FCC found they were selling these uncertified products, even if it is just $7000 worth in 9 months LOL


Why dont you just report them to said agencies, watch the run on the bank as it comes out that everyone's money thats tied up has been frozen and under investigation, there would be charge backs on cards done on mass.

I can tell you whatever I want, you can choose to listen or not. #freewilly

This thread reminds me that Dimebag Darrell is dead 

OP is on the verge of becoming like the dude that shot Dimebag -- world class idiot.