why socialism? - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

SummerBliss

sr. member

Activity: 910

Merit: 254

Quote from: Tyrantt on August 11, 2016, 07:42:35 AM

Why is the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

I feel a capitalist society can be dangerous and selfish if given too much power. Specially when such society gets controlled by few conglomerate of private players. Socialism leads to equality and does not let power into private players. Indeed a good government is required to beer fruits from socialist society. Socialism , beside taking care of equality also takes care of price fluctuation, inflation and keeps a check on unemployement.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: coins4commies on January 13, 2020, 03:35:51 AM

Perhaps you should read bookchin or at least get a basic understanding about how some of these places operate or their philosophy before coming to those blanket conclusions. Purely democratic states do not involve rules or a state. Just groups of people agreeing to do things together with voluntary participation.

What the fuck does this have to do with anything that I said? Also groups of people agreeing to do things are also known as rules, but don't let that stop you from butchering the definitions of words over and over again to fit a square peg into your communist hole.

Hilsgort_T

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 0

Quote from: Tyrantt on August 11, 2016, 07:42:35 AM

Why is the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

There are good and right ideas in any political system. For example, in modern democratic capitalist states there is freedom of speech, there is a reasonable freedom that is useful to all mankind. But there are also negative aspects - this is a ban on the prohibition of bad and destructive parties. So it is in the socialist countries of the past and present. There are both good and bad.

At the moment, there are no examples of the right productive and reasonable state. However, we can take all the best from all examples. I am sure that everything is possible, and in the future everything will become even better than now.

coins4commies

full member

Activity: 952

Merit: 175

@cryptocommies

Perhaps you should read bookchin or at least get a basic understanding about how some of these places operate or their philosophy before coming to those blanket conclusions. Purely democratic states do not involve rules or a state. Just groups of people agreeing to do things together with voluntary participation.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: coins4commies on January 12, 2020, 08:41:20 PM

Quote from: iluvbitcoins on January 12, 2020, 03:03:55 PM

Quote from: coins4commies on January 12, 2020, 12:02:04 PM

Its why you insist on keeping the discussion general by oversimplifying everything to "socialism vs capitalism". By avoiding talking about actual policies, you're able to perpetuate the strawman that people are supporting failed policies of the past. When our policies are actually laid out for you, you always say "no thats capitalism" which is evidence that you know no one is pushing for the policies you're referring to when you talk about socialism.

Everything that doesn't involve the state is capitalism.
It's because your policies involve coercion, which capitalists aren't very fond of.
We believe in individual liberties.

Thats just a bad definition of capitalism. The word you were looking for is anarchism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#Somalia_from_1991_to_2006

The problem with your equation, is that many of the stateless societies are on the left. You have Zapatistas in Mexico and Rojava in Kurdistan both with left-leaning economies. More famously, you had the Paris commune which was established by anarcho-socialists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_communities#Mass_societies

Anarchy loving capitalists should go live in Somalia because its probably the closest country to being aligned with your values.

an = without, arch = rulers

Anarchism literally means without rulers, not without rules, not without a state. Your definition of "anarchism" is a protocommunist state pretending to be anarchism while some how collectivizing at the same time. Actual anarchism and socialism are not at all compatible, but socialists and communists love wearing the skin of other movements and organizations to subvert them toward their own goals. Anyone I have ever talked to who calls themselves "anarchist" is just a confused and or dishonest socialist.

coins4commies

full member

Activity: 952

Merit: 175

@cryptocommies

Quote from: iluvbitcoins on January 12, 2020, 03:03:55 PM

Quote from: coins4commies on January 12, 2020, 12:02:04 PM

Its why you insist on keeping the discussion general by oversimplifying everything to "socialism vs capitalism". By avoiding talking about actual policies, you're able to perpetuate the strawman that people are supporting failed policies of the past. When our policies are actually laid out for you, you always say "no thats capitalism" which is evidence that you know no one is pushing for the policies you're referring to when you talk about socialism.

Everything that doesn't involve the state is capitalism.
It's because your policies involve coercion, which capitalists aren't very fond of.
We believe in individual liberties.

Thats just a bad definition of capitalism. The word you were looking for is anarchism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#Somalia_from_1991_to_2006

The problem with your equation, is that many of the stateless societies are on the left. You have Zapatistas in Mexico and Rojava in Kurdistan both with left-leaning economies. More famously, you had the Paris commune which was established by anarcho-socialists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_communities#Mass_societies

Anarchy loving capitalists should go live in Somalia because its probably the closest country to being aligned with your values.

iluvbitcoins

legendary

Activity: 2198

Merit: 1150

Freedom&Honor

Quote from: coins4commies on January 12, 2020, 12:02:04 PM

Its why you insist on keeping the discussion general by oversimplifying everything to "socialism vs capitalism". By avoiding talking about actual policies, you're able to perpetuate the strawman that people are supporting failed policies of the past. When our policies are actually laid out for you, you always say "no thats capitalism" which is evidence that you know no one is pushing for the policies you're referring to when you talk about socialism.

Everything that doesn't involve the state is capitalism.
It's because your policies involve coercion, which capitalists aren't very fond of.
We believe in individual liberties.

coins4commies

full member

Activity: 952

Merit: 175

@cryptocommies

Its why you insist on keeping the discussion general by oversimplifying everything to "socialism vs capitalism". By avoiding talking about actual policies, you're able to perpetuate the strawman that people are supporting failed policies of the past. When our policies are actually laid out for you, you always say "no thats capitalism" which is evidence that you know no one is pushing for the policies you're referring to when you talk about socialism.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: coins4commies on January 11, 2020, 03:09:06 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on January 10, 2020, 12:12:13 PM

Quote from: coins4commies on January 10, 2020, 01:12:10 AM

Its a strawman. no one is "pushing for" the ideas and policies that haven't worked in the past.

No one "pushes for" starvation, totalitarianism, and genocide. It arises out of failed policy. You are the one using a straw man.

You're correct (today) except you don't know what a strawman is. No one is pushing for failed policies but you are creating an imaginary group of people who are supporting failed policies to ridicule these imaginary people for supporting said failed policies. The people don't exist thus are built out of straw and can easily be destroyed.

I said today because genocide has definitely been "pushed for" in the past
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny
just one of many examples

They aren't imaginary. They are very real. For example you. All of the arguments you make in favor of socialism and communism have been made before and resulted in starvation, totalitarianism and genocide. An example of a real straw man is what you just did here mentioning some people did push for genocide as if it is relevant to the fact that genocide doesn't require mal intent on the part of its planners.

Great related videos:
"#31 The Origins of Communism and Its Tactics | China Unscripted"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwPScbShR_0

"#55 How Communism Destroys a Society | Joshua Philipp"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjBUPB009Qo

coins4commies

full member

Activity: 952

Merit: 175

@cryptocommies

Quote from: TECSHARE on January 10, 2020, 12:12:13 PM

Quote from: coins4commies on January 10, 2020, 01:12:10 AM

Its a strawman. no one is "pushing for" the ideas and policies that haven't worked in the past.

No one "pushes for" starvation, totalitarianism, and genocide. It arises out of failed policy. You are the one using a straw man.

You're correct (today) except you don't know what a strawman is. No one is pushing for failed policies but you are creating an imaginary group of people who are supporting failed policies to ridicule these imaginary people for supporting said failed policies. The people don't exist thus are built out of straw and can easily be destroyed.

I said today because genocide has definitely been "pushed for" in the past
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny
just one of many examples

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: coins4commies on January 10, 2020, 01:12:10 AM

Its a strawman. no one is "pushing for" the ideas and policies that haven't worked in the past.

iluvbitcoins

legendary

Activity: 2198

Merit: 1150

Freedom&Honor

Quote from: coins4commies on January 10, 2020, 01:12:10 AM

Its a strawman. no one is "pushing for" the ideas and policies that haven't worked in the past.

Your nickname "coins4commies" determined that was a lie.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: coins4commies on January 10, 2020, 01:12:10 AM

Its a strawman. no one is "pushing for" the ideas and policies that haven't worked in the past.

No one "pushes for" starvation, totalitarianism, and genocide. It arises out of failed policy. You are the one using a straw man.

coins4commies

full member

Activity: 952

Merit: 175

@cryptocommies

Its a strawman. no one is "pushing for" the ideas and policies that haven't worked in the past.

iluvbitcoins

legendary

Activity: 2198

Merit: 1150

Freedom&Honor

Quote from: Sahyadri on January 09, 2020, 06:29:16 AM

Quote from: Tyrantt on August 11, 2016, 07:42:35 AM

Why is the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

Socialism makes sure not to give power in hands of private players and large players who contribute to GDP of the nation. While any government wont want that , socialism also makes sure to keep price under control , handle inflation and related unemployment. It also protects the people of the country by safegaurding land and labor laws.

Everything you said is incorrect.

The dictator is a large player, especially the ruling class.

Socialist countries tend to have enormous amounts of inflation, look at Venezuela for example
My country was a part of socialist ex Yugoslavia which also issued million Dinar bills and had 2000% inflation rates.

They only hide the unemployment by hiring people in non-existing positions that aren't actually needed.

They expropriate land from the people.

Sahyadri

sr. member

Activity: 744

Merit: 266

Quote from: Tyrantt on August 11, 2016, 07:42:35 AM

Why is the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

Socialism makes sure not to give power in hands of private players and large players who contribute to GDP of the nation. While any government wont want that , socialism also makes sure to keep price under control , handle inflation and related unemployment. It also protects the people of the country by safegaurding land and labor laws.

Negotiation

sr. member

Activity: 1204

Merit: 270

Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com

Society is needed to govern the state and we need socialism to eliminate capitalism and slavery from this society Socialism manages the issue of eliminating unemployment etc in order to protect the balance of our society Many do not support this but I think the only purpose of socialism is to work for the welfare of the whole people.

senne

hero member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 507

Quote from: Tyrantt on August 11, 2016, 07:42:35 AM

Why is the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

Socialism in indeed important and preferred by states to prevent giving too much power to corporates and private players. It takes care of unemployment, price fluctuation, inflation. Beside that it handles laws of land and labor and also takes care of the citizens.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: djsugar on January 07, 2020, 01:01:26 PM

Quote from: Tyrantt on August 11, 2016, 07:42:35 AM

Why is the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

Socialism has its own advantage when coming to social equality and economic planning. It focuses on reducing wealth disparities, also helps in price controls , inflation anf unemployment. It also includes ability to mske good use of land , labor and resources. It also takes care of excess or insufficient production.

Socialism good. Socialism do good things I like. Socialism is make poor not poor. Socialism efficient. Y U NO want socialism?

djsugar

sr. member

Activity: 686

Merit: 262

Quote from: Tyrantt on August 11, 2016, 07:42:35 AM

Why is the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

Socialism has its own advantage when coming to social equality and economic planning. It focuses on reducing wealth disparities, also helps in price controls , inflation anf unemployment. It also includes ability to mske good use of land , labor and resources. It also takes care of excess or insufficient production.

Topic: why socialism? - page 2. (Read 7744 times)