why socialism? - page 9. | Bitcointalksearch.org

BADecker

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Quote from: daiyuba1971 on August 13, 2016, 09:41:25 AM

Quote from: Tyrantt on August 13, 2016, 08:21:12 AM

Quote from: Daniel91 on August 13, 2016, 06:21:57 AM

I think that people always tend to believe in some kind of utopia world, where everybody live in joy, no worries, enough work, no stress or problems etc.
Such dream world doesn't exist.
Socialism and communism experiment failed miserably in every country and society, like Soviet Union, Cuba, N. Korea, Poland etc.
Why?
If everybody are equal and doesn't matter how much you work, your salary will be the same, eventually you will loose desire to work and make any effort.
If only state ownership exist, and product of your work don't belong to you, you will eventually loose interest in your work.
Only real competition bring progress, not utopia where everybody receive the same, and not according to results and effort involved.
Because of this capitalism is dominant ideology today in the world.
We need today social capitalism where state help people in need and support them, through state programs etc. but not again new socialist utopia.

Exactly, I believe that equality shouldn't exist in that way "everybody gets paid the same", because that can ruin interest to work. Why would you bother doing more work and trying to be more productive if you won't be paid more for that work. Not everyone is satisfied with just ENOUGH money. Also, there would be no private business opening and therefore no extra workplaces. Id you ask me, Id like to see a way/economy politics that will encourage people to work more and open up their private business, so that people who cant to work will get a chance to prove themselves and do something with their lives.

You are not right. The payment system, exact same, that socialism is that under capitalism. In both cases, the more you work, the more you get. Under socialism, everyone had to work. Unemployed, alarm. Unemployment was pristupnikov. People had to work, even if their work is not who do not need. For his work, they received the money. But in fact, the money that they received for what they were doing or who do not need things. Perhaps now you'll understand why, under socialism, it is difficult to become rich. The money was all. But these amounts are very small. Potamu that have a certain amount of money.

If you think that you are stuck in socialism in America, watch Karl Lentz talking to the cop who gave him a traffic ticket, after the trial that Karl won - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twn96nj0jfw&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D&index=10#t=06m55s.

We can use Karl's methods in America to get out of paying most taxes. If we did, government would dwindle down to nothing, and there would be freedom.

Cool

daiyuba1971

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Quote from: Tyrantt on August 13, 2016, 08:21:12 AM

Quote from: Daniel91 on August 13, 2016, 06:21:57 AM

I think that people always tend to believe in some kind of utopia world, where everybody live in joy, no worries, enough work, no stress or problems etc.
Such dream world doesn't exist.
Socialism and communism experiment failed miserably in every country and society, like Soviet Union, Cuba, N. Korea, Poland etc.
Why?
If everybody are equal and doesn't matter how much you work, your salary will be the same, eventually you will loose desire to work and make any effort.
If only state ownership exist, and product of your work don't belong to you, you will eventually loose interest in your work.
Only real competition bring progress, not utopia where everybody receive the same, and not according to results and effort involved.
Because of this capitalism is dominant ideology today in the world.
We need today social capitalism where state help people in need and support them, through state programs etc. but not again new socialist utopia.

Exactly, I believe that equality shouldn't exist in that way "everybody gets paid the same", because that can ruin interest to work. Why would you bother doing more work and trying to be more productive if you won't be paid more for that work. Not everyone is satisfied with just ENOUGH money. Also, there would be no private business opening and therefore no extra workplaces. Id you ask me, Id like to see a way/economy politics that will encourage people to work more and open up their private business, so that people who cant to work will get a chance to prove themselves and do something with their lives.

You are not right. The payment system, exact same, that socialism is that under capitalism. In both cases, the more you work, the more you get. Under socialism, everyone had to work. Unemployed, alarm. Unemployment was pristupnikov. People had to work, even if their work is not who do not need. For his work, they received the money. But in fact, the money that they received for what they were doing or who do not need things. Perhaps now you'll understand why, under socialism, it is difficult to become rich. The money was all. But these amounts are very small. Potamu that have a certain amount of money.

Tyrantt

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Need some spare btc for a new PC

Quote from: Daniel91 on August 13, 2016, 06:21:57 AM

I think that people always tend to believe in some kind of utopia world, where everybody live in joy, no worries, enough work, no stress or problems etc.
Such dream world doesn't exist.
Socialism and communism experiment failed miserably in every country and society, like Soviet Union, Cuba, N. Korea, Poland etc.
Why?
If everybody are equal and doesn't matter how much you work, your salary will be the same, eventually you will loose desire to work and make any effort.
If only state ownership exist, and product of your work don't belong to you, you will eventually loose interest in your work.
Only real competition bring progress, not utopia where everybody receive the same, and not according to results and effort involved.
Because of this capitalism is dominant ideology today in the world.
We need today social capitalism where state help people in need and support them, through state programs etc. but not again new socialist utopia.

Exactly, I believe that equality shouldn't exist in that way "everybody gets paid the same", because that can ruin interest to work. Why would you bother doing more work and trying to be more productive if you won't be paid more for that work. Not everyone is satisfied with just ENOUGH money. Also, there would be no private business opening and therefore no extra workplaces. Id you ask me, Id like to see a way/economy politics that will encourage people to work more and open up their private business, so that people who cant to work will get a chance to prove themselves and do something with their lives.

Tyrantt

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Need some spare btc for a new PC

Quote from: BADecker on August 13, 2016, 03:04:18 AM

Quote from: Altitude on August 13, 2016, 12:03:05 AM

Intelligent people understand the difference between propaganda and common sense. America just needs a few socialized programs, its fucking time already. I have a story for you, once I bought a new iPhone, I didn't need it, there was nothing wrong with my old one but I was somehow convinced I needed it. I spent 300$ signed up for a 3 year new contract and then got the same exact phone accept they moved the headphone jack from the top to the bottom. You dont want a company such as apple to taking care of your health. It shouldn't be an exclusive business, it belongs in control by our government guaranteed to all our citizens

I like your attitude. If more people had your attitude, I might be able to become rich. Why, how? Anybody with any knowledge about how the American system of government works, can easily use the courts to put government down at any time. Companies like Apple have done this so that they can find your key and sell you some stupidity. Stay stupid. I just might like to live off of it in the future... like Apple.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twn96nj0jfw&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D&index=10.

Cool

for the first time being here, in like 6-7 months, I'll have to agree with BADecker.

Daniel91

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I think that people always tend to believe in some kind of utopia world, where everybody live in joy, no worries, enough work, no stress or problems etc.
Such dream world doesn't exist.
Socialism and communism experiment failed miserably in every country and society, like Soviet Union, Cuba, N. Korea, Poland etc.
Why?
If everybody are equal and doesn't matter how much you work, your salary will be the same, eventually you will loose desire to work and make any effort.
If only state ownership exist, and product of your work don't belong to you, you will eventually loose interest in your work.
Only real competition bring progress, not utopia where everybody receive the same, and not according to results and effort involved.
Because of this capitalism is dominant ideology today in the world.
We need today social capitalism where state help people in need and support them, through state programs etc. but not again new socialist utopia.

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 4046

Merit: 1389

Quote from: Altitude on August 13, 2016, 12:03:05 AM

Intelligent people understand the difference between propaganda and common sense. America just needs a few socialized programs, its fucking time already. I have a story for you, once I bought a new iPhone, I didn't need it, there was nothing wrong with my old one but I was somehow convinced I needed it. I spent 300$ signed up for a 3 year new contract and then got the same exact phone accept they moved the headphone jack from the top to the bottom. You dont want a company such as apple to taking care of your health. It shouldn't be an exclusive business, it belongs in control by our government guaranteed to all our citizens

I like your attitude. If more people had your attitude, I might be able to become rich. Why, how? Anybody with any knowledge about how the American system of government works, can easily use the courts to put government down at any time. Companies like Apple have done this so that they can find your key and sell you some stupidity. Stay stupid. I just might like to live off of it in the future... like Apple.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twn96nj0jfw&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D&index=10.

Cool

Altitude

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Intelligent people understand the difference between propaganda and common sense. America just needs a few socialized programs, its fucking time already. I have a story for you, once I bought a new iPhone, I didn't need it, there was nothing wrong with my old one but I was somehow convinced I needed it. I spent 300$ signed up for a 3 year new contract and then got the same exact phone accept they moved the headphone jack from the top to the bottom. You dont want a company such as apple to taking care of your health. It shouldn't be an exclusive business, it belongs in control by our government guaranteed to all our citizens

Gutembergin

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Activity: 176

Merit: 100

Quote from: BADecker on August 12, 2016, 05:48:38 PM

Quote from: Gutembergin on August 12, 2016, 05:32:57 PM

Quote from: BADecker on August 12, 2016, 05:31:18 PM

Quote from: Gutembergin on August 12, 2016, 05:24:33 PM

Quote from: BADecker on August 12, 2016, 05:22:50 PM

Socialism and communism are different forms of steal from the poor to give a little to the destitute and to make the rich richer.

Cool

False, but nice shades on your emoji. Roll Eyes

Socialists and communists might be honest at the beginning, but steal from the poor and give to the rich is what happens after awhile.

Cool

Did a socialist steal the shades on your emoji? Roll Eyes

Nope. I don't go there. But obviously, they stole yours. Cool

Touche

BADecker

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Quote from: Gutembergin on August 12, 2016, 05:32:57 PM

Quote from: BADecker on August 12, 2016, 05:31:18 PM

Quote from: Gutembergin on August 12, 2016, 05:24:33 PM

Quote from: BADecker on August 12, 2016, 05:22:50 PM

Socialism and communism are different forms of steal from the poor to give a little to the destitute and to make the rich richer.

Cool

False, but nice shades on your emoji. Roll Eyes

Socialists and communists might be honest at the beginning, but steal from the poor and give to the rich is what happens after awhile.

Cool

Did a socialist steal the shades on your emoji? Roll Eyes

Nope. I don't go there. But obviously, they stole yours. Cool

Gutembergin

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Activity: 176

Merit: 100

Quote from: BADecker on August 12, 2016, 05:31:18 PM

Quote from: Gutembergin on August 12, 2016, 05:24:33 PM

Quote from: BADecker on August 12, 2016, 05:22:50 PM

Socialism and communism are different forms of steal from the poor to give a little to the destitute and to make the rich richer.

Cool

False, but nice shades on your emoji. Roll Eyes

Socialists and communists might be honest at the beginning, but steal from the poor and give to the rich is what happens after awhile.

Cool

Did a socialist steal the shades on your emoji? Roll Eyes

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 4046

Merit: 1389

Quote from: Gutembergin on August 12, 2016, 05:24:33 PM

Quote from: BADecker on August 12, 2016, 05:22:50 PM

Socialism and communism are different forms of steal from the poor to give a little to the destitute and to make the rich richer.

Cool

False, but nice shades on your emoji. Roll Eyes

Socialists and communists might be honest at the beginning, but steal from the poor and give to the rich is what happens after awhile.

Cool

Gutembergin

full member

Activity: 176

Merit: 100

Quote from: BADecker on August 12, 2016, 05:22:50 PM

Socialism and communism are different forms of steal from the poor to give a little to the destitute and to make the rich richer.

Cool

False, but nice shades on your emoji. Roll Eyes

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 4046

Merit: 1389

Socialism and communism are different forms of steal from the poor to give a little to the destitute and to make the rich richer.

Cool

Gutembergin

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Activity: 176

Merit: 100

Quote from: Moloch on August 12, 2016, 03:39:44 PM

Quote from: Gutembergin on August 12, 2016, 02:48:11 PM

Honestly, I love America but america is fucking stupid is what it really comes down to. The country falls in love with words like Capitalism and acts like any other kind of ism is cheating lol

When our forefathers founded this country they made the rules to be efficient and to encourage individual progress , they weren't written by god and you need to have faith in them they were written by educated people trying to make a country that works. Our country no longer works because we no longer make our rules based on this premise, we are scared of change and we will fall behind because of this.

It's been happening for a long time

The religion thing happened because of all the wars... when loved ones get themselves killed, people turn to religion

Religious fanaticism got so popular during the 50's, they changed the national motto from E. Pluribus Unum, to In sky-god we trust

Printing "In god we trust" on the money is a particular oxymoron... the bible says, "The love of money is the root of all evil"

Jesus said blessed are the poor and the ones who have lots of money will have a hard time entering gods kingdom. Funny how the followers of him built the Vatican and corporate america.

but its not about religeon im only saying as americans we are religous about our words "Capitalism" "Democracy" Capitalism is not the answer to everything and democracy doesnt work in a mental institution. things need to have context to be accurate. our forefathers knew this and were basing their decisions on what woudl create the best way of life a tthe time and we shoukld do so also

Moloch

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Quote from: Gutembergin on August 12, 2016, 02:48:11 PM

Honestly, I love America but america is fucking stupid is what it really comes down to. The country falls in love with words like Capitalism and acts like any other kind of ism is cheating lol

When our forefathers founded this country they made the rules to be efficient and to encourage individual progress , they weren't written by god and you need to have faith in them they were written by educated people trying to make a country that works. Our country no longer works because we no longer make our rules based on this premise, we are scared of change and we will fall behind because of this.

It's been happening for a long time

The religion thing happened because of all the wars... when loved ones get themselves killed, people turn to religion

Religious fanaticism got so popular during the 50's, they changed the national motto from E. Pluribus Unum, to In sky-god we trust

Printing "In god we trust" on the money is a particular oxymoron... the bible says, "The love of money is the root of all evil"

Gutembergin

full member

Activity: 176

Merit: 100

Honestly, I love America but america is fucking stupid is what it really comes down to. The country falls in love with words like Capitalism and acts like any other kind of ism is cheating lol

When our forefathers founded this country they made the rules to be efficient and to encourage individual progress , they weren't written by god and you need to have faith in them they were written by educated people trying to make a country that works. Our country no longer works because we no longer make our rules based on this premise, we are scared of change and we will fall behind because of this.

birareru1988

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Activity: 275

Merit: 250

Quote from: umairsaleem011 on August 12, 2016, 02:24:57 PM

Quote from: Moloch on August 12, 2016, 02:10:38 PM

Quote from: umairsaleem011 on August 12, 2016, 02:06:47 PM

Quote from: Moloch on August 12, 2016, 01:56:22 PM

Unfortunately... here in 'Murica, anti-socialism is preached in the textbooks in school

Every 'Murican gets told dozens of times by dozens of teachers that Communism is of the devil, and Socialism is Communism

That's pretty much it though... that's all they say... we need to hate those evil Commie bastards...

But, nobody ever explains why... it's all a bunch of "Socialism never works", etc... but there is never any evidence to back up such a statement

It boils down to competition with Russia and China... you gotta hate the competition/enemy and slander them with propaganda, right?

It's basically the definition of bigotry being preached in the public school system for 50 years

as a matter of fact the evidence even points to the contrary, if you look at European countries.

Russia's problems do not come from the fact that they have socialized institutions they come from the fact that greedy dictators control those institutions, same with China.
Its easy to blame a system, its like having a war on terror. Terror is a feeling, you cant have a war wit ha feeling just like an economic system cant be at fault for the corruption. Its rather the opposite that the corruption is at fault for ruining the system

Yes, it's basically a conspiracy (though I hate using that word)

The "wealthy elites" that control the country do not want Socialism, because it would tax THEM more... they love Capitalism, where they write the laws and decide their own tax rate

Which is why they tell us to hate Socialism... they make it sound evil, and nothing worth investigating, so people don't even bother to research it

Bernie Sanders threw a wrench into their mind-control scheme by running for president as a Socialist... he brought Socialism attention in the USA, and had the support of nearly half the country

Which is why the elites conspired against him... as expected and evidenced by their actions long before the DNC email leak proved it

Yeah its really unfortunate he didnt win. America is so backwards sometimes. Like its great they finally elected a black president with Obama but it should have happened in the 70's with Martin Luther King. I suspect the same will be with socialism america will finally adopt it in 40 years and people will say can you imagine if we had been smart enough for this in the time of Bernie Sanders how much further along wed all be. Its sad really to have missed out on such an opportunity to turn things around. It's Al Gore and green energy all over again and now were forever behind the rest opf the world in that too.
I understand your hesitance to use the word conspiracy because of how much TV drama it implies but it is the correct word to describe the situation. "The "wealthy elites" that control the country do not want Socialism, because it would tax THEM more..."

No need to build either communism or socialism, and even capitalism is not needed in a pure form. It should take just a little and build on what is necessary for ordinary people. You are right about one thing. Strengths of this world, play in their game and they do not care about ordinary people.

birareru1988

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Activity: 275

Merit: 250

Quote from: Moloch on August 12, 2016, 01:56:22 PM

Unfortunately... here in 'Murica, anti-socialism is preached in the textbooks in school

Every 'Murican gets told dozens of times by dozens of teachers that Communism is of the devil, and Socialism is Communism

That's pretty much it though... that's all they say... we need to hate those evil Commie bastards...

But, nobody ever explains why... it's all a bunch of "Socialism never works", etc... but there is never any evidence to back up such a statement

It boils down to competition with Russia and China... you gotta hate the competition/enemy and slander them with propaganda, right?

It's basically the definition of bigotry being preached in the public school system for 50 years

You forgot to add that the red square, drunk guys, go horse bears and play the balalaika. A Russian children play with dolls. Grin

in Russia have long do not build communism. China has also changed its policy

umairsaleem011

sr. member

Activity: 283

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Quote from: Moloch on August 12, 2016, 02:10:38 PM

Quote from: umairsaleem011 on August 12, 2016, 02:06:47 PM

Quote from: Moloch on August 12, 2016, 01:56:22 PM

Unfortunately... here in 'Murica, anti-socialism is preached in the textbooks in school

Every 'Murican gets told dozens of times by dozens of teachers that Communism is of the devil, and Socialism is Communism

That's pretty much it though... that's all they say... we need to hate those evil Commie bastards...

But, nobody ever explains why... it's all a bunch of "Socialism never works", etc... but there is never any evidence to back up such a statement

It boils down to competition with Russia and China... you gotta hate the competition/enemy and slander them with propaganda, right?

It's basically the definition of bigotry being preached in the public school system for 50 years

as a matter of fact the evidence even points to the contrary, if you look at European countries.

Russia's problems do not come from the fact that they have socialized institutions they come from the fact that greedy dictators control those institutions, same with China.
Its easy to blame a system, its like having a war on terror. Terror is a feeling, you cant have a war wit ha feeling just like an economic system cant be at fault for the corruption. Its rather the opposite that the corruption is at fault for ruining the system

Yes, it's basically a conspiracy (though I hate using that word)

The "wealthy elites" that control the country do not want Socialism, because it would tax THEM more... they love Capitalism, where they write the laws and decide their own tax rate

Which is why they tell us to hate Socialism... they make it sound evil, and nothing worth investigating, so people don't even bother to research it

Bernie Sanders threw a wrench into their mind-control scheme by running for president as a Socialist... he brought Socialism attention in the USA, and had the support of nearly half the country

Which is why the elites conspired against him... as expected and evidenced by their actions long before the DNC email leak proved it

Yeah its really unfortunate he didnt win. America is so backwards sometimes. Like its great they finally elected a black president with Obama but it should have happened in the 70's with Martin Luther King. I suspect the same will be with socialism america will finally adopt it in 40 years and people will say can you imagine if we had been smart enough for this in the time of Bernie Sanders how much further along wed all be. Its sad really to have missed out on such an opportunity to turn things around. It's Al Gore and green energy all over again and now were forever behind the rest opf the world in that too.
I understand your hesitance to use the word conspiracy because of how much TV drama it implies but it is the correct word to describe the situation. "The "wealthy elites" that control the country do not want Socialism, because it would tax THEM more..."

Moloch

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 722

Quote from: umairsaleem011 on August 12, 2016, 02:06:47 PM

Quote from: Moloch on August 12, 2016, 01:56:22 PM

Unfortunately... here in 'Murica, anti-socialism is preached in the textbooks in school

Every 'Murican gets told dozens of times by dozens of teachers that Communism is of the devil, and Socialism is Communism

That's pretty much it though... that's all they say... we need to hate those evil Commie bastards...

But, nobody ever explains why... it's all a bunch of "Socialism never works", etc... but there is never any evidence to back up such a statement

It boils down to competition with Russia and China... you gotta hate the competition/enemy and slander them with propaganda, right?

It's basically the definition of bigotry being preached in the public school system for 50 years

as a matter of fact the evidence even points to the contrary, if you look at European countries.

Russia's problems do not come from the fact that they have socialized institutions they come from the fact that greedy dictators control those institutions, same with China.
Its easy to blame a system, its like having a war on terror. Terror is a feeling, you cant have a war wit ha feeling just like an economic system cant be at fault for the corruption. Its rather the opposite that the corruption is at fault for ruining the system

Yes, it's basically a conspiracy (though I hate using that word)

The "wealthy elites" that control the country do not want Socialism, because it would tax THEM more... they love Capitalism, where they write the laws and decide their own tax rate

Which is why they tell us to hate Socialism... they make it sound evil, and nothing worth investigating, so people don't even bother to research it

Bernie Sanders threw a wrench into their mind-control scheme by running for president as a Socialist... he brought Socialism attention in the USA, and had the support of nearly half the country

Which is why the elites conspired against him... as expected and evidenced by their actions long before the DNC email leak proved it

Topic: why socialism? - page 9. (Read 7790 times)