Why the darkcoin/dash/dashpay instamine matters - page 6.

TPTB_need_war

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Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 30, 2016, 05:33:13 PM

Quote from: generalizethis on April 29, 2016, 09:17:33 AM

No, you have a problem with misreading, what I said was that your accusation is that TPTB_need_war is a sham, but you're incorrectly using the word scam as a stand-in.

Also, as far as breaking anonymity is concerned, this is a fallacy that I somewhat covered in this thread in #2:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-shitcoiners-guide-to-shitcoin-logic-1430839

BTW, Shadowcash was brazenly using this "prove it" argument until they weren't Wink

And he can't even call me a sham, until he refutes my technical arguments, which the Dashtards gave up because they realized they couldn't.

And the "prove it" is scam methodology, when the masternodes are ostensibly (and mathematically obviously) monopolized by the instamine insiders who have been receiving up to 50% per annum ROI on staking their instamined coins, and even the argument that they sold into the bubble as refuted by myself with basic market theory that says the majority buy the top and the insiders control the float so they have the information to know when to sell the top and buy the bottom because they control this.

We've refuted everything they say dozens and dozens of times. They just want to waste more of my time so I would be distracted from my coding. I must ignore them now.

generalizethis

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Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: generalizethis on April 27, 2016, 12:46:50 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on April 27, 2016, 12:38:53 AM

Quote from: megges on April 27, 2016, 12:00:18 AM

Quote from: smooth on April 26, 2016, 06:26:19 PM

Quote from: MasterMined710 on April 26, 2016, 06:22:30 PM

how many ~~bitmonero, bmr, mro,~~ xmr monero were cripplemined the first 3 months?

the question they don't want to answer.

Ask an objective question (in which case you can answer it from a block explorer, etc.) or might as well just make up your own answer.

I really thought you are an expert in making own assumptions and giving your own answers after all that bullshit i read from you on dash ... how often did you tell us eduffield has mined almost every xcoin within the instamine days? *facepalm* (or are you in blockchain analysis now, and can prove any of the "instamine scam" - "eduffield mined almost 2 mio coins" bullshit?!)

I really hate people throwing shit, and then if the shit hits the fan, and comes back to their own face, they just say, "hey that's something totally different" LOL

Questions:

How many dash were mined in the first two hours?

How many xmr were mined in the first two hours?

How many dash were mined in the first two days?

How many xmr were mined in the first two days?

How many dash were mined in first two months?

How many xmr were mined in first two months?

How much emissions were cut from dash's total supply?

How much emissions were cut from xmr's total supply?

Do the early mining totals potentially affect dash's power centralization (yes/no)? And if so, to what potential degree?

Do the early mining totals potentially affect xmr's power centralization (yes/no)? And if so, to what potential degree?

My guess is no dasher will answer these questions with just the numbers filled in--they will attempt to skew and spin, but never answer in a straight forward and direct manner (if at all).

generalizethis

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Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: Macrochip on April 23, 2016, 03:59:59 AM

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It matters because you doesn't get to tell me that it doesn't

I didn't tell you that it doesn't. I asked WHY it matters and you failed to come up with a sensible answer as of yet.

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(someone who is probably benefitting from it)

Interesting. Am I an "instaminer" then? I thought it would be impossible to "benefit from it" unless you're an "instaminer". If I'm not an "instaminer" and I am supposedly "benefitting from it", could that mean anyone else could? Or did I have to go through some "rite of initiation" to start "benefitting from it"? Please tell me how and why I supposedly "benefit from it".

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nor assert without any verifiable proof that some or all of the instaminers aren't currently hodling their coins

It's not my problem that you're too lazy to audit the blockchain for

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and since dash is designed as a corruptible system

Which it isn't and you failed to prove.

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there is no way to assert whether it is or isn't corrupt

Well I just did. U mad?

Not really, as I already went through this once and for all, so I don't have to deal with the same false assertions being made over and over and over.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/why-dash-fails-decentralization-1443867

Macrochip

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Quote

It matters because you doesn't get to tell me that it doesn't

I didn't tell you that it doesn't. I asked WHY it matters and you failed to come up with a sensible answer as of yet.

Quote

(someone who is probably benefitting from it)

Interesting. Am I an "instaminer" then? I thought it would be impossible to "benefit from it" unless you're an "instaminer". If I'm not an "instaminer" and I am supposedly "benefitting from it", could that mean anyone else could? Or did I have to go through some "rite of initiation" to start "benefitting from it"? Please tell me how and why I supposedly "benefit from it".

Quote

nor assert without any verifiable proof that some or all of the instaminers aren't currently hodling their coins

It's not my problem that you're too lazy to audit the blockchain.

Quote

and since dash is designed as a corruptible system

Which it isn't and you failed to prove.

Quote

there is no way to assert whether it is or isn't corrupt

Well I just did. U mad?

generalizethis

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Activity: 1750

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Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: Macrochip on April 23, 2016, 03:44:16 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on April 23, 2016, 03:23:15 AM

If the instaminers combined for 1-2 million coins and sold over time half of them at an average price $4, then they pocket $2-4 million and have enough dash left over to control 500-1000 masternodes that accrue 10-50% of their collateral every year (using the low 10%), we can see that, using a low figure, they would aggregate to 605-1210 nodes in that time--and this doesn't even include selling nodes when coins are priced high to buy cheaper nodes when the coin price lowers, so unless you are very, very chimerical, you can see even normal market movement doesn't explain away the postulation that the instaminers are holding a large number of coins and nodes.

Awaits Tok to niggle over the statement of node ownership to distract attention from the obvious concentration of power that the instaminer's potential coin and node control creates.

LOL. Yeah let's just assume "the instaminers" are a homogenous group with a common goal and they all act identical, not individually and they all have the same amount of coins and no one ever sold since 2014.
You just spun the narrative further which I exposed as fucking ridiculous and unrealistic.

Quote from: generalizethis on April 23, 2016, 03:33:22 AM

Quote from: Macrochip on April 23, 2016, 03:06:02 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on April 22, 2016, 11:29:52 PM

I'd just sum it up as: The dash instamine matters because it leads to a corrupt and centralized governance.

Except that it didn't and you can't prove otherwise. You can't even define what's supposed to be "corrupt" about it.

And you can't prove that the instaminers aren't sitting on their pile of instamined coins and using them to manipulate votes or buying ads to trick greater fools into paying them node fees--that's what's corrupt about it. Do I need to make it simpler so you can understand?

I don't need to prove it because it's not happening. Whatever you mean by "manipulate votes" is bullshit. Every decision they make must be beneficial to the project as a whole otherwise they will destroy the value of their coins.

The question still remains unanswered after all:

Why does the bugged fastmine matter today?

It matters because you (someone who is probably benefitting from it) doesn't get to tell me that it doesn't, nor assert without any verifiable proof that some or all of the instaminers aren't currently hodling their coins--and since dash is designed as a corruptible system, there is no way to assert whether it is or isn't corrupt, therefore BUYER FUCKING BEWARE!

Deal with it

Macrochip

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Activity: 465

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Quote from: generalizethis on April 23, 2016, 03:23:15 AM

If the instaminers combined for 1-2 million coins and sold over time half of them at an average price $4, then they pocket $2-4 million and have enough dash left over to control 500-1000 masternodes that accrue 10-50% of their collateral every year (using the low 10%), we can see that, using a low figure, they would aggregate to 605-1210 nodes in that time--and this doesn't even include selling nodes when coins are priced high to buy cheaper nodes when the coin price lowers, so unless you are very, very chimerical, you can see even normal market movement doesn't explain away the postulation that the instaminers are holding a large number of coins and nodes.

Awaits Tok to niggle over the statement of node ownership to distract attention from the obvious concentration of power that the instaminer's potential coin and node control creates.

LOL. Yeah let's just assume "the instaminers" are a homogenous group with a common goal and they all act identical, not individually and they all have the same amount of coins and no one ever sold since 2014.
You just spun the narrative further which I exposed as fucking ridiculous and unrealistic.

Quote from: generalizethis on April 23, 2016, 03:33:22 AM

Quote from: Macrochip on April 23, 2016, 03:06:02 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on April 22, 2016, 11:29:52 PM

I'd just sum it up as: The dash instamine matters because it leads to a corrupt and centralized governance.

Except that it didn't and you can't prove otherwise. You can't even define what's supposed to be "corrupt" about it.

And you can't prove that the instaminers aren't sitting on their pile of instamined coins and using them to manipulate votes or buying ads to trick greater fools into paying them node fees--that's what's corrupt about it. Do I need to make it simpler so you can understand?

I don't need to prove it because it's not happening. Whatever you mean by "manipulate votes" is bullshit. Every decision they make must be beneficial to the project as a whole otherwise they will destroy the value of their coins.

The question still remains unanswered after all:

Why does the bugged fastmine matter today?

generalizethis

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1036

Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: Macrochip on April 23, 2016, 03:06:02 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on April 22, 2016, 11:29:52 PM

I'd just sum it up as: The dash instamine matters because it leads to a corrupt and centralized governance.

Except that it didn't and you can't prove otherwise. You can't even define what's supposed to be "corrupt" about it.

And you can't prove that the instaminers aren't sitting on their pile of instamined coins and using them to manipulate votes or buying ads to trick greater fools into paying them node fees--that's what's corrupt about it. Do I need to make it simpler so you can understand?

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: Macrochip on April 23, 2016, 03:06:02 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on April 22, 2016, 11:29:52 PM

I'd just sum it up as: The dash instamine matters because it leads to a corrupt and centralized governance.

Except that it didn't and you can't prove otherwise. You can't even define what's supposed to be "corrupt" about it.

our M.O.: Vague empty statements and outrageous conclusions. Never seen anything different. Can't get more dishonest than that.

Vertoe already proved Dash (then Darkcoin) is corrupt. As a Dash core dev, vertoe would know better than anyone.

There is nothing vague about the specific conclusion that Dash is an instamined scamcoin. I agree that Duffield's Golden Donkey HYIP and bad crypto are "outrageous."

generalizethis

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1036

Facts are more efficient than fud

If the instaminers combined for 1-2 million coins and sold over time half of them at an average price $4, then they pocket $2-4 million and have enough dash left over to control 500-1000 masternodes that accrue 10-50% of their collateral every year (using the low 10%), we can see that, using a low figure, they would aggregate to 605-1210 nodes in that time--and this doesn't even include selling nodes when coins are priced high to buy cheaper nodes when the coin price lowers, so unless you are very, very chimerical, you can see even normal market movement doesn't explain away the postulation that the instaminers are holding a large number of coins and nodes.

Awaits Tok to niggle over the statement of node ownership to distract attention from the obvious concentration of power that the instaminer's potential coin and node control creates.

Macrochip

sr. member

Activity: 465

Merit: 250

Quote from: generalizethis on April 22, 2016, 11:29:52 PM

I'd just sum it up as: The dash instamine matters because it leads to a corrupt and centralized governance.

Except that it didn't and you can't prove otherwise. You can't even define what's supposed to be "corrupt" about it.

Quote from: smooth on April 21, 2016, 06:44:36 PM

Quote from: Macrochip on April 21, 2016, 05:56:09 PM

You know I actually cared enough to read your diatribe on the first page Monero cripple-scam-botnet-miner smooth but I still have one question:

Why does the bugged fastmine matter? I mean you eloquently titled your thread with an indirect question and yet here we are: You haven't answered it.

Why DOES it matter? Explain. Because after 20 pages of piling bullshit upon bullshit you failed to do so.

Because the evidence shows a high probability of deceptive, misleading, and manipulative statements and actions by the insiders, and on top of that, those same insiders are still involved with running the coin now (including enormous holdings that give them effective control over both the market and the faux-decentralized masternode voting). So anyone getting involved with investing in this coin should know who they are trading against and how those very same people have acted in the past in order to gain an unfair advantage for themselves.

Expect to be left holding the bag someday IMO unless you are extremely good, extremely lucky, or you are an insider. The markets are open to anyone though, so make your own decisions.

Thanks for that revealing comment. You simply assume the same exact people from day 1 are holding the same exact amounts or at least close to it and are just waiting to dump it all on poor "misled" investors to crash the market. Because let's just imply they had a crystal ball that told them what the price of Dash will be one day and also let's just assume they never sold anything when Dash hit 15 USD in 2014 with the subsequent slow dump from June to August.
So your entire argument hinges on an unprovable assumption that goes against any logic and market evidence.

As this is utterly ridiculous to any unbiased observer the question remains unanswered. How does it matter now? How would a new investor in Dash would be negatively affected by anything from 2 years ago today? Is it the full time developer Dash has? Is it the pioneering features that didn't exist before Dash? Would he be harmed by running an incentivized full node? How does it matter? What is "Still involved in the coin" supposed to mean anyway? That they have a Dash wallpaper as their desktop background?

That's your M.O.: Vague empty statements and outrageous conclusions. Never seen anything different. Can't get more dishonest than that.

generalizethis

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Activity: 1750

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Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 21, 2016, 07:06:23 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 21, 2016, 06:44:36 PM

Quote from: Macrochip on April 21, 2016, 05:56:09 PM

You know I actually cared enough to read your diatribe on the first page Monero cripple-scam-botnet-miner smooth but I still have one question:

Why does the bugged fastmine matter? I mean you eloquently titled your thread with an indirect question and yet here we are: You haven't answered it.

Why DOES it matter? Explain. Because after 20 pages of piling bullshit upon bullshit you failed to do so.

Because the evidence shows a high probability of deceptive, misleading, and manipulative statements and actions by the insiders, and on top of that, those same insiders are still involved with running the coin now (including enormous holdings that give them effective control over both the market and the faux-decentralized masternode voting). So anyone getting involved with investing in this coin should know who they are trading against and how those very same people have acted in the past in order to gain an unfair advantage for themselves.

Expect to be left holding the bag someday IMO unless you are extremely good, extremely lucky, or you are an insider. The markets are open to anyone though, so make your own decisions.

As I said the other day, smooth and have similar logic, but he is more eloquent.

Well summarized!

I would add that by giving away your money to the Dash insiders, you contribute the destruction of the crypto-currency ecosystem and reputation as a scam haven.

I'd just sum it up as: The dash instamine matters because it leads to a corrupt and centralized governance.

TPTB_need_war

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Activity: 420

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Quote from: smooth on April 21, 2016, 06:44:36 PM

Quote from: Macrochip on April 21, 2016, 05:56:09 PM

You know I actually cared enough to read your diatribe on the first page Monero cripple-scam-botnet-miner smooth but I still have one question:

Why does the bugged fastmine matter? I mean you eloquently titled your thread with an indirect question and yet here we are: You haven't answered it.

Why DOES it matter? Explain. Because after 20 pages of piling bullshit upon bullshit you failed to do so.

Because the evidence shows a high probability of deceptive, misleading, and manipulative statements and actions by the insiders, and on top of that, those same insiders are still involved with running the coin now (including enormous holdings that give them effective control over both the market and the faux-decentralized masternode voting). So anyone getting involved with investing in this coin should know who they are trading against and how those very same people have acted in the past in order to gain an unfair advantage for themselves.

Expect to be left holding the bag someday IMO unless you are extremely good, extremely lucky, or you are an insider. The markets are open to anyone though, so make your own decisions.

As I said the other day, smooth and have similar logic, but he is more eloquent.

Well summarized!

I would add that by giving away your money to the Dash insiders, you contribute the destruction of the crypto-currency ecosystem and reputation as a scam haven.

smooth

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Quote from: Macrochip on April 21, 2016, 05:56:09 PM

You know I actually cared enough to read your diatribe on the first page Monero cripple-scam-botnet-miner smooth but I still have one question:

Why does the bugged fastmine matter? I mean you eloquently titled your thread with an indirect question and yet here we are: You haven't answered it.

Why DOES it matter? Explain. Because after 20 pages of piling bullshit upon bullshit you failed to do so.

Because the evidence shows a high probability of deceptive, misleading, and manipulative statements and actions by the insiders, and on top of that, those same insiders are still involved with running the coin now (including enormous holdings that give them effective control over both the market and the faux-decentralized masternode voting). So anyone getting involved with investing in this coin should know who they are trading against and how those very same people have acted in the past in order to gain an unfair advantage for themselves.

Expect to be left holding the bag someday IMO unless you are extremely good, extremely lucky, or you are an insider. The markets are open to anyone though, so make your own decisions.

Macrochip

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Activity: 465

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You know I actually cared enough to read your diatribe on the first page Monero cripple-scam-botnet-miner smooth but I still have one question:

Why does the bugged fastmine matter? I mean you eloquently titled your thread with an indirect question and yet here we are: You haven't answered it.

Why DOES it matter? Explain. Because after 20 pages of piling bullshit upon bullshit you failed to do so.

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: stan.distortion on April 14, 2016, 06:29:57 AM

Quote from: MrGood on April 14, 2016, 01:12:25 AM

Yeah okay, thanks. That's kinda what I thought.

I've always been a little bit on the fence about it. On the one hand it seems to get some praise from certain media outlets, but on the other hand it seems to get a lot of community disapproval.

Community disapproval can be very misleading on bitcointalk, especially where alts are concerned. This thread want exactly created to give a fair and unbiased perspective of Dash but I'd agree 100% with Smooth on this point:

Quote

Nevertheless, do your own homework. Reach your own conclusions. This is crypto. "Believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear" (Poe)

DYODD. Tone Vays did, and concluded the "accidental" (lol, ya right) instamine puts Dash firmly in the Scamcoin category.

TPTB_need_war

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Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 21, 2016, 01:47:26 PM

Quote from: elbowface on April 21, 2016, 09:41:12 AM

Quote

The salient distinction is that mining influence in Bitcoin has nothing to do with how many tokens you own. And mining expenditure is ongoing whereas staked masternodes are only deposited once.

We've already explained this before. I am not going to explain again why staking is not secure.

Mining influence in DASH has nothing to do with how many tokens you own either. Miners govern the coin in exactly the same way as other PoW coins - they can fork a chain at any time.

Masternodes/DGBB create an additional governance layer, providing, right now, funds for all sorts of beneficial projects directly from the blockchain.

Nobody is saying it's perfect, finished or a replacement for mining. It is, however, a good working solution to the governance issues and decision making malaise that stunt the growth of other coins.

Masternodes can corrupt the security of the InstantX and the anonymity.

Evolution is building more corruptible features on masternodes.

Masternodes concentrate the coin supply to those who own the masternodes by paying them a dividend (up to 50% per annum according a chart that was on the Dash website last year), and the masternode has no significant ongoing cost, as the stake deposit is only made once.

The decentralization of the mining is irrelevant when the coin supply is largely controlled by those who instamined and have been concentrating their percentage of the coin supply, thus they can force any protocol change they want, because ultimately it is payers who control which protocol they sign their transactions to.

I don't have time to get in a detailed debate with you, but rest assured I can destroy all your arguments when I am ready to. That time is coming... just wait...

TPTB_need_war

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Quote from: smooth on April 17, 2016, 03:44:11 AM

Quote from: toknormal on April 17, 2016, 03:34:58 AM

Dash got "distributed" in the two crashes of 2014 and 2015

OK, we'll just take your word on that, mate.

And before you start showing us pretty pictures, be sure those pictures have owners' names attached. Makes for even prettier pictures.

Market theory insures he is incorrect. The majority buys at the top and sells at the bottom. The insiders have the advantage of seeing what percentage of the float is real (not them), so they know exactly where the bottom is and can buy it.

Quote from: toknormal on April 17, 2016, 04:12:25 AM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 17, 2016, 03:55:29 AM

Market theory insures he is incorrect. The majority buys at the top and sells at the bottom

That wasn't the point. The point was availability.

A market is not a socialist politburo charged with ensuring equal distribution.

[...]

Thats why I don't have much sympathy with the accusations levelled at Dash on the basis of mining history. It's irrelevant now [...]

You move the goal posts but that still doesn't absolve your error.

The point is an overly centralized distribution can't become less centralized to attain a normal equilibrium that would have been possible without the instamine.

Free market is synonymous with decentralized market.

TPTB_need_war

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smooth

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Anyone doing their own research for the truth , start here :

https://dashtalk.org

Thank you ceti. I will soon be updating the collection of references in the OP which will include some links to dashtalk.org. Stay tuned.

TPTB_need_war

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Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 15, 2016, 01:05:50 AM

Quote from: smooth on April 14, 2016, 06:53:50 PM

Quote from: Lukas_Jackson on April 14, 2016, 06:46:11 PM

Without Masternodes they would either secure a shitcoin without value or they wouldn't even bother to mine it.
Masternode network is what gives Dash value. Darksend and Instantx is there thanks to it.

On this I agree, but the rewards are grossly excessive for the services provided.

I showed the high school level probability math that masternodes make InstantX insecure. I've already retorted the "why don't you break it then?" bullshit, so I won't again.

Masternodes destroy the network effects that a coin needs to attain adoption. I had already explained why, so I won't again.

The Dash scammers and accomplices are always trying to spin their scam as something other than a scam. Sigh.

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 15, 2016, 02:06:12 AM

Quote from: noobtrader on April 15, 2016, 01:54:37 AM

did the monero wrote that fact about infinite supply in their ann Huh if i was an investard in monero i would feel cheated if it isnt

No one can fork Monero without the support of the decentralized miners. The distinction from the Dash masternode scam, is that a masternode is staked only once with DRK (Dash tokens) and earns 50+% ROI per annum forever after for the largest holders of Dash tokens, thus further centralizing the coin meaning there is a centralized oligarchy which the investors are relying on for their future expecation of profits which afaics fulfills the Howey test for what is an investment security that is regulated by the Securities Act. A decentralized PoW miner is constantly expending on electricity in a competitive free market. Owning a lot of Monero doesn't give you any leverage as a miner.

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 15, 2016, 02:47:49 AM

Quote from: toknormal on April 15, 2016, 02:24:20 AM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on April 15, 2016, 01:05:50 AM

I showed the high school level probability math that masternodes make InstantX insecure...Masternodes destroy the network effects that a coin needs to attain adoption.

Thats strange. I wonder why he didn’t listen.

The thing is, bedroom wannabees that "nearly" wrote the new Microsoft Word and spend all day long trashing real projects on bitconitalk form such a rich source of authoritative technical appraisal.

Evan should understand that.

Maybe if you re-assert your awesome pedigree he'll entertain you Wink

(You've sure entertained us).

Quoted for posterity, so we can refer to this in retrospect when we can more clearly see who was the (ad hominem hurling[1]) fool here.

Btw, Evan did reply on my thread and did not deny the math error. He tried to claim it was an honest mistake, yeah right. Roll Eyes

Then he disappeared upon being challenged.

[1] I suppose that is the first listed "talent" on your resume. I've never seen you respond factually nor display any significant technical acumen.

Topic: Why the darkcoin/dash/dashpay instamine matters - page 6. (Read 47796 times)