Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1657. (Read 4670972 times)
I think both AnonyMint and fluffypony are great guys!
I assume you failed to read the what I posted, for you seem to be unaware that (both I2P and Tor admit on their websites that) timing attacks only require the adversary to control the router at the entry and exit nodes in order to de-obfuscate the IP address of the user (or possibly for several users in the mix depending on the statistics of the low-latency and other factors), there is no need to invade the user's computer with exotic methods you mentioned.
Even hackers can (sometimes) do that.
Even hackers can (sometimes) do that.
I understand perfectly well what you've written, you seem to have misunderstood what I have written.
You have apparently not understood the implications that I was aware of since at least August 2013.
First, stop talking about Tor, we've never mentioned Tor and have already rejected it due to the problems inherent in their use of exit nodes.
If you don't want an exit node in Tor, then run a hidden service. Then the server at the onion layer hope preceding your hidden service doesn't know you are consuming the communication or are another onion layer hop that will forward on.
However a global adversary can still use timing analysis to determine that you are not forwarding communication and deduce you are running a hidden service.
Now: we are not aiming to prevent a global adversary who has control of all bordergates at all ISPs on the planet from making assertions and observations. We are aiming to prevent them from knowing whether Monero is running or not. They can know I2P is running, that we don't care about, but they should not be able to determine whether the person is harmlessly browsing the web or using Monero without completely decrypting the traffic.
This is why I mentioned that holistic design is so important. Because you've got several design variables that come into play on this.
1. The government can Sybil attack (inject nodes into) the network to gain decrypted communication and use this along with timing analysis given their global view of decrypted traffic across the nodes in I2P to backtrack which nodes in the I2P network are sending Monero communication.
2. As I explained in prior post, if the bloat of your ring signatures contributes to pool centralization, then if (as for Bitcoin) you end up with one or two pools with > 50% of the hashrate, then the government can national security gag order those and effectively decrypt and view the traffic. Since all mining nodes (e.g. pools) need to communicate with each other, the adversary can backtrack to which nodes in the I2P network are sending Monero communication.
3. The minimum block period (which is currently 10 minutes in Bitcoin, i.e. no micropayments to change the internet from the Google ad funded morass back to individual freedom) is depending on the orphan rate which is depending on the propagation delay of solved blocks. Since mining nodes (e.g. pools) must communicate this information, then the use of onion routing is unacceptable.
You can have the mining nodes send communication from a different IP address than which they receive communication (and send this information directly to each other instead of onion routing), but this still won't alleviate the Sybil attack of #1 nor the centralization of mining of #2, i.e. the users sending transactions can't know which pools are compromised so you've achieved nothing compared to each user employing a VPN.
The only way I can see to truly hide from a global adversary whether the user is participating in a crypto-currency network, is for mixing network to be immune from timing analysis.
This is why I've said since August 2013 that low-latency mix-nets are the incorrect paradigm for crypto-currency.
Why? Because a wannabe "global police state" (without resorting to the exotic methods I described) cannot possibly go after millions or billions of people around the world under the control of regimes and governments of all sorts merely for using a communications system.
Yeah but a low-latency mixing network subject to timing analysis can't help you.
I understand that you're a terribly clever and opinionated chap, but don't assume that we are ignorant or that we have made decisions for no good reason. I2P integration is for a specific purpose and is fully expected to be a stopgap if its shortcomings are not solved over time.
I measure my abilities on actual accomplishments and 25+ years of observing my designs compared to others. For example I used to work with this guy (and Tom Hedges, Lee Lorenzen creator of Ventura Publisher, Steve Guttman the former Product Manager for Adobe Photoshop) in mid 1990s on what became and is still shipping today as Corel Painter:
http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2012/02/fractal-design-formula.html
http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2012/02/miracle-of-paint-can.html
http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2011/12/2011-year-of-steve.html
http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2014/06/interesting-persons-part-1.html
http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-new-brand.html
Here I am interacting with Mark on this blog. And here I put my entire life story on his blog. Oh my, I must have been very sick at that time.
Edit: I see I was developing on Mark's blog what became "The Universe" essay on my blog linked in my signature. I see I told him I am descended from the 1st governor of Kentucky and a ranking officer of the militia in the American Revolutionary War and the War of 1812 (also have warrior bloodline from Cherokee native tribe which doesn't originate from Isaac).
MONERO SUPPORT: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/monero-support-652305
No you dont 
You use paste option, just click on the menu and you will find it
You use paste option, just click on the menu and you will find it 
in order to send some coins i must type the receiver address by hand?
I cant get ctrl+v or right click paste to work?
Have you even read this thread? Even recently?
I believe this is what you are looking for.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xmr-monero-mining-653467
I believe this is what you are looking for.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xmr-monero-mining-653467
Why don't you just put it in your signature and participate in the discussion ?
Spamming is not effective for pool promotion.
The devs have themselves to blame for this. There have been several people who volunteered to build a modern user friendly and highly polished website and have been refused in this thread. With the devs saying "we don't need help, we are almost done with a new website...". Yet weeks go by and nothing happens. So I think taking responsibility for over promising or under delivering, which ever it is, would go a long way to dispelling the "dev's can't deliver" observations.
Please link me to the first post where we "refused" help. You claim that "weeks go by", so I'm assuming you'll link me to a post in May, or maybe early June? Without that your post is supposition and nonsense.
We have only said "don't stress, we are working on it" when we have been...well...working on it.
The devs have themselves to blame for this. There have been several people who volunteered to build a modern user friendly and highly polished website and have been refused in this thread. With the devs saying "we don't need help, we are almost done with a new website...". Yet weeks go by and nothing happens. So I think taking responsibility for over promising or under delivering, which ever it is, would go a long way to dispelling the "dev's can't deliver" observations.
To your second point: why would a competent core team, skilled and knowledgeable in C / C++, low-level networking, mathematics, and cryptography ever be capable of being excellent web developers? You seem to conflate the two.
I think it would be tough to argue that we're anywhere close to the level of Mark Karpeles or pirateat40 or, say, the developers of a cryptocurrency with an 82% premine.
To your second point: why would a competent core team, skilled and knowledgeable in C / C++, low-level networking, mathematics, and cryptography ever be capable of being excellent web developers? You seem to conflate the two.
I think it would be tough to argue that we're anywhere close to the level of Mark Karpeles or pirateat40 or, say, the developers of a cryptocurrency with an 82% premine.
Why would someone need permission from the devs to build a website? Anyone can build any wensite they want about anything they want any time they want.
The devs have themselves to blame for this. There have been several people who volunteered to build a modern user friendly and highly polished website and have been refused in this thread. With the devs saying "we don't need help, we are almost done with a new website...". Yet weeks go by and nothing happens. So I think taking responsibility for over promising or under delivering, which ever it is, would go a long way to dispelling the "dev's can't deliver" observations.
To your second point: why would a competent core team, skilled and knowledgeable in C / C++, low-level networking, mathematics, and cryptography ever be capable of being excellent web developers? You seem to conflate the two.
I think it would be tough to argue that we're anywhere close to the level of Mark Karpeles or pirateat40 or, say, the developers of a cryptocurrency with an 82% premine.
To your second point: why would a competent core team, skilled and knowledgeable in C / C++, low-level networking, mathematics, and cryptography ever be capable of being excellent web developers? You seem to conflate the two.
I think it would be tough to argue that we're anywhere close to the level of Mark Karpeles or pirateat40 or, say, the developers of a cryptocurrency with an 82% premine.
In my opinion, the problem is not black and white thinking but incoherence. You can't debate with somebody who call flawed logic "moderation"...
Europe is in a much worse condition than the USA due to its ridiculously high levels of socialism
I am of a pragmatic bent. Rather than blame ideology I prefer to observe mechanics. I think you, AnonyMint, often miss opportunities to usefully educate because you over-use polarizing category language, to which most minds are hardened. I am sure that Deng "Little Pheonix" would back me, in that it doesn' t matter whether the debt-backed fiat-slavery regime and socialization of losses are imposed by a dictatorship of the proletariat or by the regulatory capture of crony capitalists, if the outcomes are similar.
The whole planet is subject to common driving forces these days, due to increased interlinking bandwidth on all levels of organization, from material goods to physical/ chemical energy, to financial flows, to informative signals, to emotive zeitgeist -- even genetic transmission and familial ties are global now. This results in a remarkable synchronization. North American, European, East Asian and even Australian economies and societies share similar liabilities of energy-draining rentiers, compliant brainwashed and transfer payment co-opted masses, captive rigidly ossifying regulatory regimes, and exponential debt explosion. Japan and China face the same end-game now. Japan is likely to be the first to feel the brunt, and China may be the last.
The lesser rigidity and inertia of smaller, more isolated, and less developed polities will make them relative havens. I think of Africa, Southeast Asia, and South America here - but even there the implosion of Kissinger's dollar system will make itself unpleasantly felt. I consider Chile a pretty good bet, among the nation-states.
I have enjoyed reading AnonyMint's posts, but you hit the nail on the head with my bolded comment. That is the problem I have with his posts (and I'm not saying this in an attacking way.) but when we break a complicated thing called life into just a few groups, we are missing the picture. There is still a lot of information and truth in his posts, so I take a J. Krishnamurti approach of "seeing the truth in the false", so to speak.
Further, polarized thinking makes us rather predictable, non-creative, non-free thinking, followers, easy to direct/control and on and on. I mean it takes away the dynamic nature of being a human BEING. It makes us into the very dichotomies of those that create them. (A bit hard for me to English this.) It is like culture, religion, tradition, "education", language, etc. Use all of what we are...
Appreciate your posts on XMR,
Its about sharing
Sometimes ridged black and whites are accurate. Libertarians particularly are often accused of polarized thinking however almost all human interactions can be neatly categorized into the ones where one party is either bonking, or threatening to bonk the other party over the head and ones were neither are doing this. This is very black and white thinking and often a very useful line of thought. Of course this isnt a rebuttal to what you are saying because you didnt claim anything to the contrary of what i just said, i just thought it was an interesting point.
Europe is in a much worse condition than the USA due to its ridiculously high levels of socialism
I am of a pragmatic bent. Rather than blame ideology I prefer to observe mechanics. I think you, AnonyMint, often miss opportunities to usefully educate because you over-use polarizing category language, to which most minds are hardened. I am sure that Deng "Little Pheonix" would back me, in that it doesn' t matter whether the debt-backed fiat-slavery regime and socialization of losses are imposed by a dictatorship of the proletariat or by the regulatory capture of crony capitalists, if the outcomes are similar.
The whole planet is subject to common driving forces these days, due to increased interlinking bandwidth on all levels of organization, from material goods to physical/ chemical energy, to financial flows, to informative signals, to emotive zeitgeist -- even genetic transmission and familial ties are global now. This results in a remarkable synchronization. North American, European, East Asian and even Australian economies and societies share similar liabilities of energy-draining rentiers, compliant brainwashed and transfer payment co-opted masses, captive rigidly ossifying regulatory regimes, and exponential debt explosion. Japan and China face the same end-game now. Japan is likely to be the first to feel the brunt, and China may be the last.
The lesser rigidity and inertia of smaller, more isolated, and less developed polities will make them relative havens. I think of Africa, Southeast Asia, and South America here - but even there the implosion of Kissinger's dollar system will make itself unpleasantly felt. I consider Chile a pretty good bet, among the nation-states.
I have enjoyed reading AnonyMint's posts, but you hit the nail on the head with my bolded comment. That is the problem I have with his posts (and I'm not saying this in an attacking way.) but when we break a complicated thing called life into just a few groups, we are missing the picture. There is still a lot of information and truth in his posts, so I take a J. Krishnamurti approach of "seeing the truth in the false", so to speak.
Further, polarized thinking makes us rather predictable, non-creative, non-free thinking, followers, easy to direct/control and on and on. I mean it takes away the dynamic nature of being a human BEING. It makes us into the very dichotomies of those that create them. (A bit hard for me to English this.) It is like culture, religion, tradition, "education", language, etc. Use all of what we are...
Appreciate your posts on XMR,
Its about sharing
I am of a pragmatic bent. Rather than blame ideology I prefer to observe mechanics. I think you, AnonyMint, often miss opportunities to usefully educate because you over-use polarizing category language, to which most minds are hardened. I am sure that Deng "Little Pheonix" would back me, in that it doesn' t matter whether the debt-backed fiat-slavery regime and socialization of losses are imposed by a dictatorship of the
Often libertarian use "socialist" for everything that isn't libertarian. it's a problem of language but crony-capitalism is definitively the outcome of failed socialist nation (Russia, China, France...). But some state in US have an hight rate of cronyism of some country in Europe have a low rate of cronyism.
Europe is in a much worse condition than the USA due to its ridiculously high levels of socialism
I am of a pragmatic bent. Rather than blame ideology I prefer to observe mechanics. I think you, AnonyMint, often miss opportunities to usefully educate because you over-use polarizing category language, to which most minds are hardened. I am sure that Deng "Little Pheonix" would back me, in that it doesn' t matter whether the debt-backed fiat-slavery regime and socialization of losses are imposed by a dictatorship of the proletariat or by the regulatory capture of crony capitalists, if the outcomes are similar.
The whole planet is subject to common driving forces these days, due to increased interlinking bandwidth on all levels of organization, from material goods to physical/ chemical energy, to financial flows, to informative signals, to emotive zeitgeist -- even genetic transmission and familial ties are global now. This results in a remarkable synchronization. North American, European, East Asian and even Australian economies and societies share similar liabilities of energy-draining rentiers, compliant brainwashed and transfer payment co-opted masses, captive rigidly ossifying regulatory regimes, and exponential debt explosion. Japan and China face the same end-game now. Japan is likely to be the first to feel the brunt, and China may be the last.
The lesser rigidity and inertia of smaller, more isolated, and less developed polities will make them relative havens. I think of Africa, Southeast Asia, and South America here - but even there the implosion of Kissinger's dollar system will make itself unpleasantly felt. I consider Chile a pretty good bet, among the nation-states.
For some reason while running and CPU mining Monero my anemic computer has recently been behaving itself to the point that I tried running a work program at the same time that I had difficulty with previously as it needs to send and receive information in a timely manner. An hour later and not even a hiccup.
Nazis and ancaps alike will benefit from transactional privacy. A truly subversive and disruptive crypto will end up being used by even those very tyrants who would most like to strangle it. I like the insight embodied in the twisted phrase: Power co-opts; absolute power co-opts absolutely. It is awful when that inexorable dynamic works against you, and deleriously wonderful when its potency is in your favour.
Why there’s so much PR about Monero?
If a thing is really worthy, it does not need so much noise around it.
Looks kinda suspicious - like there are things behind all this that Monero devs would like to hide.
If a thing is really worthy, it does not need so much noise around it.
Looks kinda suspicious - like there are things behind all this that Monero devs would like to hide.
Seriously, just stop feeding the trolls, it solves nothing.
Why there’s so much PR about Monero?
If a thing is really worthy, it does not need so much noise around it.
Looks kinda suspicious - like there are things behind all this that Monero devs would like to hide.
If a thing is really worthy, it does not need so much noise around it.
Looks kinda suspicious - like there are things behind all this that Monero devs would like to hide.
Care to tell us what PR you observe?
Perhaps he means to ask why we don' t roll over for his smear campaign.
Perhaps he is too accustomed to pump/dump scams to recognize when educated and intelligent people are genuinely enthusiastic about a project of general benefit to all.
Why there’s so much PR about Monero?
If a thing is really worthy, it does not need so much noise around it.
Looks kinda suspicious - like there are things behind all this that Monero devs would like to hide.
If a thing is really worthy, it does not need so much noise around it.
Looks kinda suspicious - like there are things behind all this that Monero devs would like to hide.
Care to tell us what PR you observe?
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