Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1661. (Read 4670614 times)
FYI, rpietila wrote that perhaps it was intended that Monero's first priority is not be the NSA-blinded coin.
Basically, just take this one step at a time. NSA stuff can come after the fundamentals are done imo
You are not a programmer? Programmers understand that holistic design can cascade into the fundamentals.
Edit: if you see my first post in this thread today, I quoted myself from August 2013 wherein I made the point to the anoncoin and I2P developers the issue that low-latency Chaum mix-nets (e.g. Tor and I2P) are not blinding to the NSA. That is almost a year and still nothing accomplished on this fundamental issue (caveat that Zerocash in theory doen't need to blind your IP address, but I enumerated some severe tradeoffs, and this doesn't apply to Zerocoin).
I have to point out that Cryptonite would scale to that point <...>
Sorry, what difference between Cryptonote & Cryptonite? Few times saw this note->nite, trying to understand ... Is it typo error [I/O is near], or what? I just learning English everyday, but then i comes to crypto o0I have to point out that Cryptonite would scale to that point with its "mini-blockchain", but it doesn't help much if you want anonymity. Maybe next there will be a scalable currency with anonymity. I doubt there will be one cryptocurrency for all uses...
The creator of the mini-block chain, bitfreak!, and I had a private message exchange about this recently as follows.
Very interesting. Do you think cryptos will thrive or die during this episode?
Thrive!
but it will, I2P will close the last hole
Er. No. Try rereading my post that started this discussion today. Follow the link in that post. I even quoted the I2P website which admits it doesn't protect against a global adversary.
Basically, just take this one step at a time. NSA stuff can come after the fundamentals are done imo
As long as the NSA aren't doing the fundamentals....
Basically, just take this one step at a time. NSA stuff can come after the fundamentals are done imo
May be too late to wait to add real protection that I2P and Tor don't provide. ETA for global sovereign debt collapse starts Oct. 2015.
P.S. note I edited my post to change "useless" to "not sufficient".
P.S. note I edited my post to change "useless" to "not sufficient".
Why Oct. 2015?
See the last slide on the post that I had linked to.
Armstrong's A.I. computer model (which was fed all the data of the history of the world, $million of data collected from ancient coins, manuscripts, even for example pulling up all the data from old newspaper archives around the world) made those predictions in 1992 and they have all come true. The last item on that slide is the Oct 2015 target date for the "big bang" of the global sovereign debt crisis.
You may read chronologically (not right-to-left lol) backwards in that Mad Max thread (see also the Dark Enlightenment and Economic Devastation threads too) to get my detailed analysis and discussion. I can't summarize it for you.
Note everything won't go to hell exactly on Oct 2015. That is when the gears of acceleration will be set in motion, because the USA's current economic bounce due to capital inflows from abroad will have peaked.
Edit: Armstrong managed the $1+ trillion Japanese sovereign (Postal) fund in the past. This is the largest hedge fund manager ever.
Very interesting. Do you think cryptos will thrive or die during this episode?
2. Whether the I2P+ring is secure against the global police state.
Even if you are correct that limited transactions would allow #1 to scale, it doesn't diminish the fact that #2 is not secure against the global police state.
Who really needs to be secure against "global police state", must have full-anon internet connection anyway.Even if you are correct that limited transactions would allow #1 to scale, it doesn't diminish the fact that #2 is not secure against the global police state.
Everyone who has large wealth that they don't want confiscated by the bankrupted western socialism.
Agreed it requires some way to fully anonymize our interaction with the crypto-currency, but if you are implying that every aspect of the internet must be anonymous, then I disagree.
For example, some may wish to use the fully anonymous crypto-currency with mostly offline activities, so only their interaction with the coin's network needs to be protected. There are many other online scenarios as well.
Monero alone doesnt have to be 100000% secure against any theoretical risk. Who needs this security level,...
Snowden's revelations means it is not theoretical. Also I provided documentation that the G20 are actively ramping up their plans.
Again, "Everyone who has large wealth that they don't want confiscated by the bankrupted western socialism".
...most combine different techniques and systems (anyway).
Dont act like a privacy coin must include its own anonymity network as new network layer.
Dont act like a privacy coin must include its own anonymity network as new network layer.
I know of no set of techniques for mining and or transacting on a crypto-currency that is nearly always anonymous to the NSA, except perhaps using an unregistered connection to the internet (which can't scale for most).
2. Whether the I2P+ring is secure against the global police state.
Even if you are correct that limited transactions would allow #1 to scale, it doesn't diminish the fact that #2 is not secure against the global police state.
Who really needs to be secure against "global police state", must have full-anon internet connection anyway.Even if you are correct that limited transactions would allow #1 to scale, it doesn't diminish the fact that #2 is not secure against the global police state.
Monero alone doesnt have to be 100000% secure against any theoretical risk. Who needs this security level, most combine different techniques and systems (anyway).
Dont act like a privacy coin must include its own anonymity network as new network layer.
May be too late to wait to add real protection that I2P and Tor don't provide. ETA for global sovereign debt collapse starts Oct. 2015.
P.S. note I edited my post to change "useless" to "not sufficient".
P.S. note I edited my post to change "useless" to "not sufficient".
Why Oct. 2015?
See the last slide on the post that I had linked to.
Armstrong's A.I. computer model (which was fed all the data of the history of the world, $million of data collected from ancient coins, manuscripts, even for example pulling up all the data from old newspaper archives around the world) made those predictions in 1992 and they have all come true. The last item on that slide is the Oct 2015 target date for the "big bang" of the global sovereign debt crisis.
You may read chronologically (not right-to-left lol) backwards in that Mad Max thread (see also the Dark Enlightenment and Economic Devastation threads too) to get my detailed analysis and discussion. I can't summarize it for you.
Note everything won't go to hell exactly on Oct 2015. That is when the gears of acceleration will be set in motion, because the USA's current economic bounce due to capital inflows from abroad will have peaked.
Edit: Armstrong managed the $1+ trillion Japanese sovereign (Postal) fund in the past. This is the largest hedge fund manager ever.
This is useless against the hunt for wealth coming from the bankrupt socialism in the G20 countries:
Dude..Even bitcoin is not immune to the NSA. thats too far fetched now imo....NSA and Quantam Compute immunity that so many people want, comes with time, implementing I2P is still a great start for any coin, NSA immunity and such can come after.....May be too late to wait to add real protection that I2P and Tor don't provide. ETA for global sovereign debt collapse starts Oct. 2015.
P.S. note I edited my post to change "useless" to "not sufficient".
Why Oct. 2015?
I have to point out that Cryptonite would scale to that point <...>
Sorry, what difference between Cryptonote & Cryptonite? Few times saw this note->nite, trying to understand ... Is it typo error [I/O is near], or what? I just learning English everyday, but then i comes to crypto o0
P.S.
Was ashamed, then i found now my hackable(was)->unhackable(corrected) earlear posted today. :|
Above post reminded me of something I meant to post earlier:
Apparently part of the proposed new Monero website will be a subsite which will allow for crowdfunding of dev projects, including setting bounties, voting on priorities and so forth. Sounds like the new platform which AnarchyStar is sponsoring to replace the BTC Foundation could be ideal for adaptation, cant remember the name of it right now but I'm pretty sure it was going to be opensourced?
EDIT - after a quick Google my powers of recall are immeasurably enhanced:
Reddit post announcing the winner = http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29n8o0/100000_bounty_winner_announcement/
Brief summary of main features to save busy ppl some reading:
Winner: Lighthouse (Mike Hearn)
Crowdfunding platform, running completely on the Blockchain. Assurance contracts which send money back automatically if goals are not met.
Will be able to fund Bitcoin core devs directly. They propose their schedule and goals, and they can set extra bonus features when they get extra funds (such as with Kickstarter).
Will allow lobbyists to make proposals and be directly funded by the community, according to their capabilities
Will allow many other community initiatives, such as supporting adoption in Africa by sponsoring ATMs, etc
Apparently part of the proposed new Monero website will be a subsite which will allow for crowdfunding of dev projects, including setting bounties, voting on priorities and so forth. Sounds like the new platform which AnarchyStar is sponsoring to replace the BTC Foundation could be ideal for adaptation, cant remember the name of it right now but I'm pretty sure it was going to be opensourced?
EDIT - after a quick Google my powers of recall are immeasurably enhanced:
Reddit post announcing the winner = http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29n8o0/100000_bounty_winner_announcement/
Brief summary of main features to save busy ppl some reading:
Winner: Lighthouse (Mike Hearn)
Crowdfunding platform, running completely on the Blockchain. Assurance contracts which send money back automatically if goals are not met.
Will be able to fund Bitcoin core devs directly. They propose their schedule and goals, and they can set extra bonus features when they get extra funds (such as with Kickstarter).
Will allow lobbyists to make proposals and be directly funded by the community, according to their capabilities
Will allow many other community initiatives, such as supporting adoption in Africa by sponsoring ATMs, etc
yeah this was news last week in reddit/r/bitcoin. but.. what.. does it have to do with monero exactly, im missing that part, sorry.
Above post reminded me of something I meant to post earlier:
Apparently part of the proposed new Monero website will be a subsite which will allow for crowdfunding of dev projects, including setting bounties, voting on priorities and so forth. Sounds like the new platform which AnarchyStar is sponsoring to replace the BTC Foundation could be ideal for adaptation, cant remember the name of it right now but I'm pretty sure it was going to be opensourced?
EDIT - after a quick Google my powers of recall are immeasurably enhanced:
Reddit post announcing the winner = http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29n8o0/100000_bounty_winner_announcement/
Brief summary of main features to save busy ppl some reading:
Winner: Lighthouse (Mike Hearn)
Crowdfunding platform, running completely on the Blockchain. Assurance contracts which send money back automatically if goals are not met.
Will be able to fund Bitcoin core devs directly. They propose their schedule and goals, and they can set extra bonus features when they get extra funds (such as with Kickstarter).
Will allow lobbyists to make proposals and be directly funded by the community, according to their capabilities
Will allow many other community initiatives, such as supporting adoption in Africa by sponsoring ATMs, etc
Apparently part of the proposed new Monero website will be a subsite which will allow for crowdfunding of dev projects, including setting bounties, voting on priorities and so forth. Sounds like the new platform which AnarchyStar is sponsoring to replace the BTC Foundation could be ideal for adaptation, cant remember the name of it right now but I'm pretty sure it was going to be opensourced?
EDIT - after a quick Google my powers of recall are immeasurably enhanced:
Reddit post announcing the winner = http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29n8o0/100000_bounty_winner_announcement/
Brief summary of main features to save busy ppl some reading:
Winner: Lighthouse (Mike Hearn)
Crowdfunding platform, running completely on the Blockchain. Assurance contracts which send money back automatically if goals are not met.
Will be able to fund Bitcoin core devs directly. They propose their schedule and goals, and they can set extra bonus features when they get extra funds (such as with Kickstarter).
Will allow lobbyists to make proposals and be directly funded by the community, according to their capabilities
Will allow many other community initiatives, such as supporting adoption in Africa by sponsoring ATMs, etc
I think the point is still valid. Getting $5k or $10k each is not going to drastically change the amount of time you can spend on XMR over a six month or one year period, and given the donation amounts posted so far, its unlikely to even reach that much.
Perhaps it might be beneficial to publically state a commitment goal for the various devs. Something like:
Dev 1: if donations > x, then time spent on XMR will be >= t
Dev 2: if donations > x, then time spent on XMR will be >= z,
etc...
That will let the community know how much they need to raise to achieve a certain level of time or commitment or feature set. Its usually much easier to raise money for a set goal than an amorphous one.
None of us have full-time day jobs - all of us have companies or we work for ourselves or we work as freelancers.
Perhaps it might be beneficial to publically state a commitment goal for the various devs. Something like:
Dev 1: if donations > x, then time spent on XMR will be >= t
Dev 2: if donations > x, then time spent on XMR will be >= z,
etc...
That will let the community know how much they need to raise to achieve a certain level of time or commitment or feature set. Its usually much easier to raise money for a set goal than an amorphous one.
None of us have full-time day jobs - all of us have companies or we work for ourselves or we work as freelancers.
It can work for 99% of people, if those people just use it as a form of savings account, a tax haven in the cloud if you will. Obviously not if they are trying to use it for all of their expenditures. But no blockchain will ever scale to that point. Certainly bitcoin will never be able to be used by average joe for day to day transactions. Atleast not in a reasonably decentralized form.
I have to point out that Cryptonite would scale to that point with its "mini-blockchain", but it doesn't help much if you want anonymity. Maybe next there will be a scalable currency with anonymity. I doubt there will be one cryptocurrency for all uses... It can work for 99% of people, if those people just use it as a form of savings account, a tax haven in the cloud if you will. Obviously not if they are trying to use it for all of their expenditures. But no blockchain will ever scale to that point. Certainly bitcoin will never be able to be used by average joe for day to day transactions. Atleast not in a reasonably decentralized form.
the point is that monero is perfect for "survive the coming global police state" Large amounts in and large amounts in and large amounts out. Put 10,000 dollars in, and when ever you need some cash, withdraw atleast 1000 of it at a time.
the point is that monero is perfect for "survive the coming global police state" Large amounts in and large amounts in and large amounts out. Put 10,000 dollars in, and when ever you need some cash, withdraw atleast 1000 of it at a time.
You are conflating two orthogonal issues:
1. Whether Monero's ring signatures can scale.
2. Whether the I2P+ring is secure against the global police state.
Even if you are correct that limited transactions would allow #1 to scale, it doesn't diminish the fact that #2 is not secure against the global police state.
Personally I want an anonymous coin that I can also transact in, not just a saving account. Because without transactions, the coin won't survive or have network effects value. Again see the mathematical analysis of valuations that we did.
I mean, you are the same guy who said Bitcoin is a ponzi sheme...
Reading through your posts, i see a lot of flaming...
Reading through your posts, i see a lot of flaming...
I am also the guy who correctly predicted BTC to drop to $350 and predicted the price rise to slow down due to a mathematical analysis.
Theres simply nothing better than TOR or I2P we have, absolutely nothing, if you can create a better solution...
Correct there is nothing better at the moment for obfuscating the IP address.
Please understand that analysis is orthogonal from inventing new solutions. I am providing analysis.
This is useless against the hunt for wealth coming from the bankrupt socialism in the G20 countries:
Dude..Even bitcoin is not immune to the NSA. thats too far fetched now imo....NSA and Quantam Compute immunity that so many people want, comes with time, implementing I2P is still a great start for any coin, NSA immunity and such can come after.....May be too late to wait to add real protection that I2P and Tor don't provide. ETA for global sovereign debt collapse starts Oct. 2015.
P.S. note I edited my post to change "useless" to "not sufficient".
Oh, I think that I2P+Ring Sigs would offer be more than the perfect anonymous combo for 99.99% of people. And of course, any NSA proof anonymity/what you suggested, should be done, but IMO, after the I2P is already done.
Besides the analysis that ring signatures (at least in the way they are employed in Monero and CryptoNote) are not scalable and thus can't target a large ("99%" of) population, they are not going to provide anonymity for those who want to protect their wealth from the coming global confiscation by the bankrupted western society.
Yes they can provide anonymity against hackers who don't have a backdoor on all traffic passing over the internet, but that is not the point at all for me as to why I wanted an anonymous coin. The entire point all along for me has been how to survive the coming global police state.
It can work for 99% of people, if those people just use it as a form of savings account, a tax haven in the cloud if you will. Obviously not if they are trying to use it for all of their expenditures. But no blockchain will ever scale to that point. Certainly bitcoin will never be able to be used by average joe for day to day transactions. Atleast not in a reasonably decentralized form.
the point is that monero is perfect for "survive the coming global police state" Large amounts in and large amounts in and large amounts out. Put 10,000 dollars in, and when ever you need some cash, withdraw atleast 1000 of it at a time. People who use swiss bank accounts right now arnt using them for every day transactions, they put large sums in, and take large sums out.
*edit* also you can have 1 cryptonote currency for each city, and then one for trading between them. a local currency that you can do smaller trades in and a global currency for moving back and forth between the local ones
I mean, you are the same guy who said Bitcoin is a ponzi sheme...
Reading through your posts, i see a lot of flaming...
Reading through your posts, i see a lot of flaming...
I am also the guy who correctly predicted BTC to drop to $350 and predicted the price rise to slow down due to a mathematical analysis.
Theres simply nothing better than TOR or I2P we have, absolutely nothing, if you can create a better solution...
Correct there is nothing better at the moment for obfuscating the IP address.
Please understand. Analysis is orthogonal to inventing new solutions. I am providing analysis.
This is useless against the hunt for wealth coming from the bankrupt socialism in the G20 countries:
Dude..Even bitcoin is not immune to the NSA. thats too far fetched now imo....NSA and Quantam Compute immunity that so many people want, comes with time, implementing I2P is still a great start for any coin, NSA immunity and such can come after.....May be too late to wait to add real protection that I2P and Tor don't provide. ETA for global sovereign debt collapse starts Oct. 2015.
P.S. note I edited my post to change "useless" to "not sufficient".
Oh, I think that I2P+Ring Sigs would offer be more than the perfect anonymous combo for 99.99% of people. And of course, any NSA proof anonymity/what you suggested, should be done, but IMO, after the I2P is already done.
Besides the analysis that ring signatures (at least in the way they are employed in Monero and CryptoNote) are not scalable and thus can't target a large ("99%" of) population, they are not going to provide anonymity for those who want to protect their wealth from the coming global confiscation by the bankrupted western society.
Yes they can perhaps provide anonymity against hackers who don't have a backdoor on all traffic passing over the internet, but that is not the point at all for me as to why I wanted an anonymous coin. The entire point all along for me has been how to survive the coming global police state.
DarkWallet (which uses CoinJoin but has nothing to do with Darkcoin) gets a nice PR piece by Wired here - http://www.wired.com/2014/07/inside-dark-wallet/
Trouble is, when I read it I can't help thinking they are going to all this effort to reverse engineer a level of anonymity onto Bitcoin which will always be questionable. If Monero can get to a similar level of user friendliness within a sensible timeframe then it has all those questions answered and no doubt Wired will be publishing articles like "Monero - the currency of liberty?". At least I hope that will happen....
Trouble is, when I read it I can't help thinking they are going to all this effort to reverse engineer a level of anonymity onto Bitcoin which will always be questionable. If Monero can get to a similar level of user friendliness within a sensible timeframe then it has all those questions answered and no doubt Wired will be publishing articles like "Monero - the currency of liberty?". At least I hope that will happen....
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