Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 687. (Read 4670673 times)

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 28, 2016, 09:30:27 PM

Quote from: nioc on January 28, 2016, 10:37:49 PM

Of course I don't understand any of this which then results in fear, uncertainty and doubt on my part.

How about something I know? I have the seeds to my wallets safely stored. What if I delete my wallets and restore them from seed when needed?

You will still have all your coins, don't worry :-) When one restores his seed, simplewallet basically scans the blockchain from scratch looking for transactions that belong to your address (which is coupled to your seed). Therefore, if you restore your seed it will show the same balance as you have now.

Then what is this talk about other more secure methods? Again I don't understand the more secure methods or what situations they should be used for.

I guess my original question was, how does deleting a wallet created by "normal" means compare to the methods discussed above?

Could you first describe to me how you normally create a wallet? If I know that, I could elaborate on the other methods described and what their advantages and disadvantages are.

That would actually be awesome of you to write how tp store cold wallets for the multiple ways of doing it, and writing the pros and cons of each method. I'm still clueless.

nioc

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 1008

I know cold/view only wallets have been discussed before but I have no idea how to find that info.

Nothing ever detected on this comp.

But when I go to use a securely generated cold wallet aren't I at the same risk when I go to use it?

If I have created a wallet as I mentioned and then delete it while keeping the seed, is that comparable to a cold wallet?(assuming the comp is not infected)

I guess the possibility of infection the crux of the matter? (I hear ArticMine's voice in my head) How do you use any wallet in a secure way?

I guess it depends on what level of paranoia is used. How about a reasonable one Grin

Better yet, what if I just store all my Moneroj at MoneroDice? Cool

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 28, 2016, 10:16:17 PM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 28, 2016, 09:30:27 PM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 28, 2016, 10:16:17 PM

Of course I don't understand any of this which then results in fear, uncertainty and doubt on my part.

How about something I know? I have the seeds to my wallets safely stored. What if I delete my wallets and restore them from seed when needed?

You will still have all your coins, don't worry :-) When one restores his seed, simplewallet basically scans the blockchain from scratch looking for transactions that belong to your address (which is coupled to your seed). Therefore, if you restore your seed it will show the same balance as you have now.

Then what is this talk about other more secure methods? Again I don't understand the more secure methods or what situations they should be used for.

I guess my original question was, how does deleting a wallet created by "normal" means compare to the methods discussed above?

Could you first describe to me how you normally create a wallet? If I know that, I could elaborate on the other methods described and what their advantages and disadvantages are.

On my one and only windows 8.1 computer that I use for everything, I open simplewallet and type a wallet name and a wallet is created. I choose a password/phrase and a seed is created in my language of choice.

In 15 years using windows computers I only got 1 positive report of some insignificant virus or malware.

The problem with bolded is that it is sufficient until it isn't, to the extent that one simple virus already has the possibility to steal your coins. Offline / cold wallets are created such that the coins only could get stolen by physical access. In other words, they are safe for any kind of virus / malware. Also, using your daily computer to create wallets makes you more prone to attacks. If you want I could explain to you how to make a secure cold wallet, so that you would never have to worry about your coins.

nioc

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 1008

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 28, 2016, 09:30:27 PM

Of course I don't understand any of this which then results in fear, uncertainty and doubt on my part.

How about something I know? I have the seeds to my wallets safely stored. What if I delete my wallets and restore them from seed when needed?

You will still have all your coins, don't worry :-) When one restores his seed, simplewallet basically scans the blockchain from scratch looking for transactions that belong to your address (which is coupled to your seed). Therefore, if you restore your seed it will show the same balance as you have now.

Then what is this talk about other more secure methods? Again I don't understand the more secure methods or what situations they should be used for.

I guess my original question was, how does deleting a wallet created by "normal" means compare to the methods discussed above?

Could you first describe to me how you normally create a wallet? If I know that, I could elaborate on the other methods described and what their advantages and disadvantages are.

On my one and only windows 8.1 computer that I use for everything, I open simplewallet and type a wallet name and a wallet is created. I choose a password/phrase and a seed is created in my language of choice.

In 15 years using windows computers I only got 1 positive report of some insignificant virus or malware.

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 28, 2016, 09:30:27 PM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 28, 2016, 09:30:27 PM

Of course I don't understand any of this which then results in fear, uncertainty and doubt on my part.

How about something I know? I have the seeds to my wallets safely stored. What if I delete my wallets and restore them from seed when needed?

You will still have all your coins, don't worry :-) When one restores his seed, simplewallet basically scans the blockchain from scratch looking for transactions that belong to your address (which is coupled to your seed). Therefore, if you restore your seed it will show the same balance as you have now.

Then what is this talk about other more secure methods? Again I don't understand the more secure methods or what situations they should be used for.

I guess my original question was, how does deleting a wallet created by "normal" means compare to the methods discussed above?

Could you first describe to me how you normally create a wallet? If I know that, I could elaborate on the other methods described and what their advantages and disadvantages are.

nioc

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 1008

Of course I don't understand any of this which then results in fear, uncertainty and doubt on my part.

How about something I know? I have the seeds to my wallets safely stored. What if I delete my wallets and restore them from seed when needed?

You will still have all your coins, don't worry :-) When one restores his seed, simplewallet basically scans the blockchain from scratch looking for transactions that belong to your address (which is coupled to your seed). Therefore, if you restore your seed it will show the same balance as you have now.

Then what is this talk about other more secure methods? Again I don't understand the more secure methods or what situations they should be used for.

I guess my original question was, how does deleting a wallet created by "normal" means compare to the methods discussed above?

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 28, 2016, 07:27:13 PM

Of course I don't understand any of this which then results in fear, uncertainty and doubt on my part.

How about something I know? I have the seeds to my wallets safely stored. What if I delete my wallets and restore them from seed when needed?

You will still have all your coins, don't worry :-) When one restores his seed, simplewallet basically scans the blockchain from scratch looking for transactions that belong to your address (which is coupled to your seed). Therefore, if you restore your seed it will show the same balance as you have now.

nioc

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 1008

Of course I don't understand any of this which then results in fear, uncertainty and doubt on my part.

How about something I know? I have the seeds to my wallets safely stored. What if I delete my wallets and restore them from seed when needed?

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: smooth on January 28, 2016, 06:52:14 PM

Quote from: phishead on January 28, 2016, 06:21:15 PM

Quote from: smooth on January 28, 2016, 06:09:23 PM

Quote from: phishead on January 28, 2016, 01:45:36 PM

I know I should know how too... but how do I use moneroaddress.org offline. Is there someway to download it onto a USB and stick it onto a computer that's offline?

Well I think the easiest way would be just to go to moneroaddress.org, to unplug the internet connection and to be sure that computer does not connect by itself to any other wifi, to click the create wallet button, to print the page with mnemonic seed, public address, spend key, view key and such, delete browser history and data, close the browser and restart the whole computer.

I am quite paranoid, so I boot my machine from Ubuntu DVD which cannot contain any malware, hopefully, and do the rest like described above. I also use a very simple printer which has no wifi and has just a very little memory to store any data. So I use very cheap printer. Which is great.

Good method. Slightly better would be a custom DVD with just a trusted OS and the moneroaddress page. You would not need to connect to the internet at all.

So you can take any old blank DVD laying around and burn these programs on there? Or maybe a flash drive? What if the computer has been connected to the internet for a long time?

Also how would you go about monitoring your wallet and seeing what your account balance is, spend it, etc.?

Flash drive is writable, so in theory malware could infiltrate and maliciously store your wallet there. Best is to create the wallet on hardware with no persistent storage at all, but that is difficult to achieve in practice since there is flash firmware in most hardware.

In practice creating a USB stick with OS and the wallet generator, then booting on an offline system is probably good enough. For extra paranoia, completely wipe the stick before plugging it back into an online system for reuse . A burned DVD would be slightly better.

For monitoring payments to the wallet you can use a view key wallet. The goal of this method overall would be for long-term storage, so it would be unspendable. To (eventually) spend you would generally restore the wallet to an online system (then no longer consider the wallet suitable for long term storage). We're working on methods to sign transactions offline, but its not really usable yet.

Or just burn (no pun intended) it and buy a new one, USB sticks aren't that expensive anymore nowadays.

Best advice is probably to, in case of using an USB stick to generate an offline wallet, never bring it back online again.

Good point. But again, we are talking about maximum paranoia mode here. Not necessarily what is needed for storage of moderate amounts by someone who isn't a huge target. Many individual failures have to happen for a wallet you generated and didn't even save to become compromised in this manner, but it is possible. Securing private keys, especially when high value, is serious business.

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: smooth on January 28, 2016, 06:52:14 PM

Quote from: phishead on January 28, 2016, 06:21:15 PM

Quote from: smooth on January 28, 2016, 06:09:23 PM

Quote from: phishead on January 28, 2016, 01:45:36 PM

I know I should know how too... but how do I use moneroaddress.org offline. Is there someway to download it onto a USB and stick it onto a computer that's offline?

Well I think the easiest way would be just to go to moneroaddress.org, to unplug the internet connection and to be sure that computer does not connect by itself to any other wifi, to click the create wallet button, to print the page with mnemonic seed, public address, spend key, view key and such, delete browser history and data, close the browser and restart the whole computer.

I am quite paranoid, so I boot my machine from Ubuntu DVD which cannot contain any malware, hopefully, and do the rest like described above. I also use a very simple printer which has no wifi and has just a very little memory to store any data. So I use very cheap printer. Which is great.

Good method. Slightly better would be a custom DVD with just a trusted OS and the moneroaddress page. You would not need to connect to the internet at all.

So you can take any old blank DVD laying around and burn these programs on there? Or maybe a flash drive? What if the computer has been connected to the internet for a long time?

Also how would you go about monitoring your wallet and seeing what your account balance is, spend it, etc.?

Flash drive is writable, so in theory malware could infiltrate and maliciously store your wallet there. Best is to create the wallet on hardware with no persistent storage at all, but that is difficult to achieve in practice since there is flash firmware in most hardware.

In practice creating a USB stick with OS and the wallet generator, then booting on an offline system is probably good enough. For extra paranoia, completely wipe the stick before plugging it back into an online system for reuse . A burned DVD would be slightly better.

For monitoring payments to the wallet you can use a view key wallet. The goal of this method overall would be for long-term storage, so it would be unspendable. To (eventually) spend you would generally restore the wallet to an online system (then no longer consider the wallet suitable for long term storage). We're working on methods to sign transactions offline, but its not really usable yet.

Or just burn (no pun intended) it and buy a new one, USB sticks aren't that expensive anymore nowadays.

Best advice is probably to, in case of using an USB stick to generate an offline wallet, never bring it back online again.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: phishead on January 28, 2016, 06:21:15 PM

Quote from: smooth on January 28, 2016, 06:09:23 PM

Quote from: phishead on January 28, 2016, 01:45:36 PM

I know I should know how too... but how do I use moneroaddress.org offline. Is there someway to download it onto a USB and stick it onto a computer that's offline?

Well I think the easiest way would be just to go to moneroaddress.org, to unplug the internet connection and to be sure that computer does not connect by itself to any other wifi, to click the create wallet button, to print the page with mnemonic seed, public address, spend key, view key and such, delete browser history and data, close the browser and restart the whole computer.

I am quite paranoid, so I boot my machine from Ubuntu DVD which cannot contain any malware, hopefully, and do the rest like described above. I also use a very simple printer which has no wifi and has just a very little memory to store any data. So I use very cheap printer. Which is great.

Good method. Slightly better would be a custom DVD with just a trusted OS and the moneroaddress page. You would not need to connect to the internet at all.

So you can take any old blank DVD laying around and burn these programs on there? Or maybe a flash drive? What if the computer has been connected to the internet for a long time?

Also how would you go about monitoring your wallet and seeing what your account balance is, spend it, etc.?

Flash drive is writable, so in theory malware could infiltrate and maliciously store your wallet there. Best is to create the wallet on hardware with no persistent storage at all, but that is difficult to achieve in practice since there is flash firmware in most hardware.

In practice creating a USB stick with OS and the wallet generator, then booting on an offline system is probably good enough. For extra paranoia, completely wipe the stick before plugging it back into an online system for reuse. A burned DVD would be slightly better.

For monitoring payments to the wallet you can use a view key wallet. The goal of this method overall would be for long-term storage, so it would be unspendable. To (eventually) spend you would generally restore the wallet to an online system (then no longer consider the wallet suitable for long term storage). We're working on methods to sign transactions offline, but its not really usable yet.

saddambitcoin

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Activity: 1610

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Yes, you can burn a live OS onto a DVD. Something like Tails could be a good option (https://tails.boum.org/). It wouldn't matter if the computer had been connected to the internet before, the OS runs entirely off of the DVD and does not write any data to persistent media (unless you explicitly make it do so).

phishead

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Activity: 1873

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Keep what's important, and know who's your friend

Quote from: smooth on January 28, 2016, 06:09:23 PM

Quote from: phishead on January 28, 2016, 01:45:36 PM

I know I should know how too... but how do I use moneroaddress.org offline. Is there someway to download it onto a USB and stick it onto a computer that's offline?

Well I think the easiest way would be just to go to moneroaddress.org, to unplug the internet connection and to be sure that computer does not connect by itself to any other wifi, to click the create wallet button, to print the page with mnemonic seed, public address, spend key, view key and such, delete browser history and data, close the browser and restart the whole computer.

I am quite paranoid, so I boot my machine from Ubuntu DVD which cannot contain any malware, hopefully, and do the rest like described above. I also use a very simple printer which has no wifi and has just a very little memory to store any data. So I use very cheap printer. Which is great.

Good method. Slightly better would be a custom DVD with just a trusted OS and the moneroaddress page. You would not need to connect to the internet at all.

So you can take any old blank DVD laying around and burn these programs on there? Or maybe a flash drive? What if the computer has been connected to the internet for a long time?

Also how would you go about monitoring your wallet and seeing what your account balance is, spend it, etc.?

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 28, 2016, 02:10:44 PM

Quote from: phishead on January 28, 2016, 01:45:36 PM

Quote from: smooth on January 28, 2016, 07:33:20 AM

Quote from: pönde on January 28, 2016, 07:30:01 AM

There is not yet a site for monero paper wallet generator. But we can have such a site by slightly modifying mymonero.com.

Try this site: https://moneroaddress.org/

You can save that page and use offline.

I know I should know how too... but how do I use moneroaddress.org offline. Is there someway to download it onto a USB and stick it onto a computer that's offline?

Download the .zip file from -> https://github.com/moneromooo-monero/monero-wallet-generator/ (moneroaddress.org is simply a port of that).

It contains a .html file (with a similiar UI as moneroaddress.org) that you can use offline to generate a wallet.

That, or you should be able to use your browser save function.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198