[XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1595.

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on January 07, 2016, 05:25:47 PM

Nice 27k market dump today.

These weren't borrowed coins. Somebody needed quick cash, probably because they were long something that got crushed.

IOW, 27k XMR moved in a flash from weak to (relatively) strong hands.

Congrats to the lucky bidders who caught that falling knife! Cool

I hope we revisit the 0.0009s one more time, so my stinky-skunk bids get filled. Cheesy

It is somewhat positive that most of the decline can be attributed to this dumper and another 7k dumper. Few months ago it was just dumping non stop when Bitcoin went up. However, we haven't broke the altcoin-peg / correlation yet.

kazuki49

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: americanpegasus on January 07, 2016, 05:15:05 PM

I'm no stranger to being strange, and thankfully it is obvious to me that Monero will slowly eat at world finance the same way that Bitcoin has.

The trouble is just getting the initial universe large enough to be attractive as a financial network, but we are making progress.

Kazuki, being a smart and worldly soul, do you think one should hold an even mix of Bitcoin and Monero or are you abandoning Bitcoin for more advanced projects?

Personally I'm hoping for a balance of all three (maybe four) of my cryptosavings, from a USD perspective.

I can't get over how happy I am that 0.9 is officially out. Once I get home I promise to download and play with it - the time has come for me to learn how to manage my own private keys using some test amounts.

My approach is unconventional, right now I hold no Bitcoins anymore, I recommend people doing what they feel like, I'm fond of rpietila comments about kelly and hedging so the safest bet would keep holding more bitcoins than moneroj but I'm personally not interested in participating in bitcoin as an user anymore and I don't trade. Keep holding bitcoin and some moneroj (note that ''some'' at this stage is like 5 figures xmr, because monero is very undervalued imo) at worst you'll be able to buy more cheap monero and not losing much if something happens to monero, yeah if you are heavy in crypto but conservative keep bitcoins and moneroj, I've made a decision to bite the ''risk'' because I still think monero is the best e-cash the world has seen and the community is top notch. I would really like the see a world Monero is where Bitcoin is at now, it would not have problems going further because the fundamentals are a lot stronger than with Bitcoin (and hash-rate is relative to the price so I don't count as a weak fundamental).

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Nice 27k market dump today.

These weren't borrowed coins. Somebody needed quick cash, probably because they were long something that got crushed.

IOW, 27k XMR moved in a flash from weak to (relatively) strong hands.

Congrats to the lucky bidders who caught that falling knife! Cool

I hope we revisit the 0.0009s one more time, so my stinky-skunk bids get filled. Cheesy

americanpegasus

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 504

I'm no stranger to being strange, and thankfully it is obvious to me that Monero will slowly eat at world finance the same way that Bitcoin has.

The trouble is just getting the initial universe large enough to be attractive as a financial network, but we are making progress.

Kazuki, being a smart and worldly soul, do you think one should hold an even mix of Bitcoin and Monero or are you abandoning Bitcoin for more advanced projects?

Personally I'm hoping for a balance of all three (maybe four) of my cryptosavings, from a USD perspective.

I can't get over how happy I am that 0.9 is officially out. Once I get home I promise to download and play with it - the time has come for me to learn how to manage my own private keys using some test amounts.

kazuki49

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: ArticMine on January 07, 2016, 01:29:42 AM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 05:08:12 PM

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

... as if the blocksize issue alone was not enough to worry.

As someone really interested in the prospects of true e-cash and what a digital currency can bring to the world and the masses of oppressed people I feel very fortunate to have found Monero this early, the Bitcoin situation will only get worse I'm afraid.

opennux

full member

Activity: 231

Merit: 100

Quote from: chennan on January 07, 2016, 01:01:41 AM

I don't really know if there is a proposition for this kind of idea or not already... but what do you guys suggest the "cryptonote" or XMR community in general, should use as a platform to help ease the transition of cryptocurrencies in the real world monetary system? Do you think we need to have another form of ideology along with secure, anonymous transactions? Even though "Anarchy" is a type of ideology, it really is pretty fague to me TBH... there is no real structure for how cities, institutions, etc. should be ran "by the people". I feel if we had some common ground on a type of ideology we can all agree on, then the cause for XMR would seem to serve a bigger purpose than to just have really anonymous transactions in a capitalist/consumer world.

Just been pondering this recently and didn't know what you guys thought about it?

Don't politicise it. There are no reason to do so. In fact, there are many reasons not to, amongst them not bifurcating and balkanising the community.

No need to label it (no one would agree anyway).

It's technology, not politics. Whatever YOU want to use it for is up to you.

Johnny Mnemonic

hero member

Activity: 795

Merit: 514

Quote from: QuantumQrack on January 07, 2016, 04:30:11 AM

I asked Gavin back in 2011 about more anonymity in bitcoin, and he didn't seem interested at all. Either he didn't understand the importance of fungibility (which is kind of related to anonymity) at the time, or maybe he still doesn't. Needless to say, I started looking for other alternatives..eventually making my way to the Monero community.

I don't think fungibility in general was ever really talked about as a concern in bitcoin until quite recently. Fungibility as a result of privacy was rarely if ever discussed before Monero, and I don't think Monero's fungibility was even realized as a "feature" until months after it was released (I could be wrong...I don't feel like reading that far back in the thread.)

I want to say it was late 2014 when it really became clear that fungibility was the real goal...not simply privacy...and that's what distinguished XMR from all the other anon players of the time.

QuantumQrack

sr. member

Activity: 337

Merit: 250

Quote from: jehst on January 06, 2016, 06:25:42 PM

Quote from: smooth on January 06, 2016, 06:21:50 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 05:08:12 PM

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

i`M really annoyed of this fungibility problem that bitcoin has, we should resolve this fast or bitcoin can become an instrument of tyrrany in the future.

It is what is is. Bitcoin is first generation blockchain ledger technology that both by design and by culture and precedent is highly resistant to change. Maybe that will be good enough to maintain its lead in the market or maybe not.

One thing we can be almost certain will not happen is that it won't be resolved fast.

it will never be resolved, if it's this difficult to make the blocksize 2MB, then unlinkability or unraceability will never be added. it's too big of a change.

I asked Gavin back in 2011 about more anonymity in bitcoin, and he didn't seem interested at all. Either he didn't understand the importance of fungibility (which is kind of related to anonymity) at the time, or maybe he still doesn't. Needless to say, I started looking for other alternatives..eventually making my way to the Monero community.

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 05:08:12 PM

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

... as if the blocksize issue alone was not enough to worry.

chennan

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1004

I don't really know if there is a proposition for this kind of idea or not already... but what do you guys suggest the "cryptonote" or XMR community in general, should use as a platform to help ease the transition of cryptocurrencies in the real world monetary system? Do you think we need to have another form of ideology along with secure, anonymous transactions? Even though "Anarchy" is a type of ideology, it really is pretty fague to me TBH... there is no real structure for how cities, institutions, etc. should be ran "by the people". I feel if we had some common ground on a type of ideology we can all agree on, then the cause for XMR would seem to serve a bigger purpose than to just have really anonymous transactions in a capitalist/consumer world.

Just been pondering this recently and didn't know what you guys thought about it?

languagehasmeaning

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: owm123 on January 06, 2016, 07:52:33 PM

Andreas Antonopoulos says that fungibility issue must be address to reduce risk of such third party control. He explains:

Quote

"we really need to address the issue of fungibility. Blacklists are inherently evil, as they seed control to the author of the blacklist and that control is absolute.".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM&feature=youtu.be&t=33m6s

That is a great quote

aminorex

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1030

Sine secretum non libertas

Remarkably stable. The contrast with IMF reserve currencies will become sharper over time.

owm123

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: GamingBro on January 06, 2016, 07:16:10 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 05:08:12 PM

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

i`M really annoyed of this fungibility problem that bitcoin has, we should resolve this fast or bitcoin can become an instrument of tyrrany in the future.

What do you mean by "tyranny"?

I think it refers to posiblity that validity of your transactions will be controlled by some third party companies/organisations, whether their are clean or tainted.

Andreas Antonopoulos says that fungibility issue must be address to reduce risk of such third party control. He explains:

Quote

"we really need to address the issue of fungibility. Blacklists are inherently evil, as they seed control to the author of the blacklist and that control is absolute.".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM&feature=youtu.be&t=33m6s

GamingBro

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 251

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 05:08:12 PM

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

i`M really annoyed of this fungibility problem that bitcoin has, we should resolve this fast or bitcoin can become an instrument of tyrrany in the future.

What do you mean by "tyranny"?

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: GingerAle on January 06, 2016, 06:49:55 PM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 06:26:27 PM

Quote from: smooth on January 06, 2016, 06:21:50 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 05:08:12 PM

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

i`M really annoyed of this fungibility problem that bitcoin has, we should resolve this fast or bitcoin can become an instrument of tyrrany in the future.

It is what is is. Bitcoin is first generation blockchain ledger technology that both by design and by culture and precedent is highly resistant to change. Maybe that will be good enough to maintain its lead in the market or maybe not.

One thing we can be almost certain will not happen is that it won't be resolved fast.

Just look at how slow this blocksize issue is progressing. In my opinion, fungibility is a way bigger issue in comparison with blocksize. I'd rather have a fungible blockchain that is constraint by blocksize than vice versa. If you think the blocksize issue sparked a heated debate, you are in for a surpise once this issue will spark a debate.

agreed. It is a WAY bigger issue. There was some comment in one of these threads that said "invest in the sector, not the product" or whatever. Funny thing is, to me, there are two sectors. One sector is actual digital money - Monero, due to its fungibility. The other sector are non-fungible cryptocurrency networks, which have their purpose. And honestly, I'm starting to think that some in the bitcoin camp are fine with the lack of fungibility, namely because it increases the value of whitelist coins.

I think it was industry and firm, nevertheless an interesting comment and I somewhat agree with your extension on it. It is also kind of subjective, simply depends on how malleable a certain industry is in your own perspective.

Not sure why the bolded would ever be a good thing. If less people are able to use it due to coins being tainted (and subsequently flagged), the premium on their whitelisted coins will quickly evaporate.

GingerAle

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1008

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 06:26:27 PM

Quote from: smooth on January 06, 2016, 06:21:50 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 05:08:12 PM

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

i`M really annoyed of this fungibility problem that bitcoin has, we should resolve this fast or bitcoin can become an instrument of tyrrany in the future.

It is what is is. Bitcoin is first generation blockchain ledger technology that both by design and by culture and precedent is highly resistant to change. Maybe that will be good enough to maintain its lead in the market or maybe not.

One thing we can be almost certain will not happen is that it won't be resolved fast.

Just look at how slow this blocksize issue is progressing. In my opinion, fungibility is a way bigger issue in comparison with blocksize. I'd rather have a fungible blockchain that is constraint by blocksize than vice versa. If you think the blocksize issue sparked a heated debate, you are in for a surpise once this issue will spark a debate.

agreed. It is a WAY bigger issue. There was some comment in one of these threads that said "invest in the sector, not the product" or whatever. Funny thing is, to me, there are two sectors. One sector is actual digital money - Monero, due to its fungibility. The other sector are non-fungible cryptocurrency networks, which have their purpose. And honestly, I'm starting to think that some in the bitcoin camp are fine with the lack of fungibility, namely because it increases the value of whitelist coins.

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: smooth on January 06, 2016, 06:21:50 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 05:08:12 PM

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

i`M really annoyed of this fungibility problem that bitcoin has, we should resolve this fast or bitcoin can become an instrument of tyrrany in the future.

It is what is is. Bitcoin is first generation blockchain ledger technology that both by design and by culture and precedent is highly resistant to change. Maybe that will be good enough to maintain its lead in the market or maybe not.

One thing we can be almost certain will not happen is that it won't be resolved fast.

Just look at how slow this blocksize issue is progressing. In my opinion, fungibility is a way bigger issue in comparison with blocksize. I'd rather have a fungible blockchain that is constraint by blocksize than vice versa. If you think the blocksize issue sparked a heated debate, you are in for a surpise once this issue will spark a debate.

jehst

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

21 million. I want them all.

Quote from: smooth on January 06, 2016, 06:21:50 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 05:08:12 PM

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

i`M really annoyed of this fungibility problem that bitcoin has, we should resolve this fast or bitcoin can become an instrument of tyrrany in the future.

It is what is is. Bitcoin is first generation blockchain ledger technology that both by design and by culture and precedent is highly resistant to change. Maybe that will be good enough to maintain its lead in the market or maybe not.

One thing we can be almost certain will not happen is that it won't be resolved fast.

it will never be resolved, if it's this difficult to make the blocksize 2MB, then unlinkability or unraceability will never be added. it's too big of a change.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 06, 2016, 05:08:12 PM

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

i`M really annoyed of this fungibility problem that bitcoin has, we should resolve this fast or bitcoin can become an instrument of tyrrany in the future.

It is what is is. Bitcoin is first generation blockchain ledger technology that both by design and by culture and precedent is highly resistant to change. Maybe that will be good enough to maintain its lead in the market or maybe not.

One thing we can be almost certain will not happen is that it won't be resolved fast.

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1595. (Read 3313670 times)