all you can do with >51% is Denial of Service or Double Spend, it does not allow you to fork, that would require a change in the software.
and if you change the software for the pool and cause a fork, your users would find they cant use their minted ZEIT on an exchange or with their own wallet.
so doing a fork with >51% would destroy the >51% you had on the other network and leave you with 100% of network of the fork and useless coins
Topic: ★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS] - page 606. (Read 1009280 times)
March 15, 2014, 08:15:31 PM
March 15, 2014, 08:05:39 PM
Yep, totally, I'm just one of those that babbles a lot and always has to have the final word.
No me
Stop it, I want it.
grrrr bastage
hahaha
No me
Stop it, I want it.
grrrr bastage
hahaha
March 15, 2014, 08:00:43 PM
DOGE was once in the range of 10-30 satoshi, all you need is a popular idea, movement or meme that unites people into a community for your coin to succeed.
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
It went even below to 7-8 satochi.
Anyhow I want to give some explanation on a fork because some people seem not to understand what it means. The term fork is used a lot in the open source community. A fork is a new version of a piece of software but has the same base as the original software were it is created from. In the open source community, if the community is not happy with the way how the software is improved or handled, usually the community creates a fork and goes a different way (example is open office vs libre office). In that case 2 pieces of software doing almost the same thing exist at that moment. This is in such cases not a problem.
For cryptocoins this is different. The strength of cryptocoin is that the wallet and the cryptocurrency algorithm is distributed. So when a part of the systems using the cryptocoin software disappear, it still works as many systems over the whole world has that piece of software.
There is also a downside. When you need to update the software, all those systems needs to be updated. If that is not done properly, the system has 2 different pieces of software and then the question is which is correct. Normally the latest is always seen as correct, but sometimes it is also the largest distributed that is chosen. A fork is not always bad. A new version that does not alter the algorithm itself, can exist next to the older version, but in a distributed system, it is important to update when needed. However you always have to wait until the developper has officially released the version. It is possible that a developper added a version he still want to test in a real situation, so please wait always on a official release. And this looks what went wrong with CryptoRush. They saw a code change and immediately changed the code and therefor creating a fork themselves. Their system were not capable of handling this and more went wrong in their system.
So a fork is usually only a treat when new software is released. (there are other ways, but less common) What happens when a fork is created: if the fork is seen as the incorrect version, all the coins created by the fork are becoming useless and all the transfers with that fork are turned back to the situation from where the fork is created. If the new fork is the correct one, then the same thing applies to the older version, but only from the moment the fork was created.
So I hope it explains for some people how it works. The treat of having more then 51 percent in a pool has nothing to do with a fork. It has to do with approving your own transactions and create a way to do double spending. The threat doesn't occur that easy, but it has happened ones that an ex-member of a bitcoin pool has tried to do it, but he didn't succeed eventually. Anyhow spreading to different pools is important. A small risk is still a risk.
At your service ...
im gona have to correct you that, a fork in the case of blockchain will only happen if a change in the software pertains to the block validation rules.
While what you've said is correct, having a pool with ~51% gives that pool the chances to manipulate that chain and thus fork it as all the miners pointing there will back up their change, we're simply trusting that pool not to get up to anything malicious and also trusting that their security is tight enough that a malicious attacker can't take advantage of the powerful pool and fork it for their own gains.
While it's possible to piece things back together, it creates a lot of work and means that folks end up without coins they should have or have a delay in gaining control of their coins so may not be able to trade them when needed and miss paying their electric bill. It's easy to say it's repairable, but when looking back it's easy to forget about the average miner/traders who lose out in the meantime.
Hence, while, as you state, the risk is low, the fact it exists at all and is so easily solved, we shouldn't even need to have these discussions still. It's been a 'thing' for SO long and is widely discussed in MSM that folks who don't even mine/trade have heard of 51% attacks (even if they don't know what it really means usually).
Anyway, this is a hybrid coin, so the problem will be further reduced in 5 days and be pretty much null and void here in a few weeks.
Feel free to correct me where I may be wrong, I'm not 100% of much in life and Cryptos are certainly a way off from 100%
You're right, but when a pool would deliberately fork a coin, that fork would probably be declared invalid, so little reasons for a pool tot do that. Anyhow my idea was to inform people and you helped by giving your ideas and that's what this coin is and should be all about. Spreading the correct information, no lies.
March 15, 2014, 07:45:03 PM
DOGE was once in the range of 10-30 satoshi, all you need is a popular idea, movement or meme that unites people into a community for your coin to succeed.
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
It went even below to 7-8 satochi.
Anyhow I want to give some explanation on a fork because some people seem not to understand what it means. The term fork is used a lot in the open source community. A fork is a new version of a piece of software but has the same base as the original software were it is created from. In the open source community, if the community is not happy with the way how the software is improved or handled, usually the community creates a fork and goes a different way (example is open office vs libre office). In that case 2 pieces of software doing almost the same thing exist at that moment. This is in such cases not a problem.
For cryptocoins this is different. The strength of cryptocoin is that the wallet and the cryptocurrency algorithm is distributed. So when a part of the systems using the cryptocoin software disappear, it still works as many systems over the whole world has that piece of software.
There is also a downside. When you need to update the software, all those systems needs to be updated. If that is not done properly, the system has 2 different pieces of software and then the question is which is correct. Normally the latest is always seen as correct, but sometimes it is also the largest distributed that is chosen. A fork is not always bad. A new version that does not alter the algorithm itself, can exist next to the older version, but in a distributed system, it is important to update when needed. However you always have to wait until the developper has officially released the version. It is possible that a developper added a version he still want to test in a real situation, so please wait always on a official release. And this looks what went wrong with CryptoRush. They saw a code change and immediately changed the code and therefor creating a fork themselves. Their system were not capable of handling this and more went wrong in their system.
So a fork is usually only a treat when new software is released. (there are other ways, but less common) What happens when a fork is created: if the fork is seen as the incorrect version, all the coins created by the fork are becoming useless and all the transfers with that fork are turned back to the situation from where the fork is created. If the new fork is the correct one, then the same thing applies to the older version, but only from the moment the fork was created.
So I hope it explains for some people how it works. The treat of having more then 51 percent in a pool has nothing to do with a fork. It has to do with approving your own transactions and create a way to do double spending. The threat doesn't occur that easy, but it has happened ones that an ex-member of a bitcoin pool has tried to do it, but he didn't succeed eventually. Anyhow spreading to different pools is important. A small risk is still a risk.
At your service ...
im gona have to correct you that, a fork in the case of blockchain will only happen if a change in the software pertains to the block validation rules.
While what you've said is correct, having a pool with ~51% gives that pool the chances to manipulate that chain and thus fork it as all the miners pointing there will back up their change, we're simply trusting that pool not to get up to anything malicious and also trusting that their security is tight enough that a malicious attacker can't take advantage of the powerful pool and fork it for their own gains.
While it's possible to piece things back together, it creates a lot of work and means that folks end up without coins they should have or have a delay in gaining control of their coins so may not be able to trade them when needed and miss paying their electric bill. It's easy to say it's repairable, but when looking back it's easy to forget about the average miner/traders who lose out in the meantime.
Hence, while, as you state, the risk is low, the fact it exists at all and is so easily solved, we shouldn't even need to have these discussions still. It's been a 'thing' for SO long and is widely discussed in MSM that folks who don't even mine/trade have heard of 51% attacks (even if they don't know what it really means usually).
Anyway, this is a hybrid coin, so the problem will be further reduced in 5 days and be pretty much null and void here in a few weeks.
Feel free to correct me where I may be wrong, I'm not 100% of much in life and Cryptos are certainly a way off from 100%
March 15, 2014, 07:23:55 PM
DOGE was once in the range of 10-30 satoshi, all you need is a popular idea, movement or meme that unites people into a community for your coin to succeed.
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
It went even below to 7-8 satochi.
Anyhow I want to give some explanation on a fork because some people seem not to understand what it means. The term fork is used a lot in the open source community. A fork is a new version of a piece of software but has the same base as the original software were it is created from. In the open source community, if the community is not happy with the way how the software is improved or handled, usually the community creates a fork and goes a different way (example is open office vs libre office). In that case 2 pieces of software doing almost the same thing exist at that moment. This is in such cases not a problem.
For cryptocoins this is different. The strength of cryptocoin is that the wallet and the cryptocurrency algorithm is distributed. So when a part of the systems using the cryptocoin software disappear, it still works as many systems over the whole world has that piece of software.
There is also a downside. When you need to update the software, all those systems needs to be updated. If that is not done properly, the system has 2 different pieces of software and then the question is which is correct. Normally the latest is always seen as correct, but sometimes it is also the largest distributed that is chosen. A fork is not always bad. A new version that does not alter the algorithm itself, can exist next to the older version, but in a distributed system, it is important to update when needed. However you always have to wait until the developper has officially released the version. It is possible that a developper added a version he still want to test in a real situation, so please wait always on a official release. And this looks what went wrong with CryptoRush. They saw a code change and immediately changed the code and therefor creating a fork themselves. Their system were not capable of handling this and more went wrong in their system.
So a fork is usually only a treat when new software is released. (there are other ways, but less common) What happens when a fork is created: if the fork is seen as the incorrect version, all the coins created by the fork are becoming useless and all the transfers with that fork are turned back to the situation from where the fork is created. If the new fork is the correct one, then the same thing applies to the older version, but only from the moment the fork was created.
So I hope it explains for some people how it works. The treat of having more then 51 percent in a pool has nothing to do with a fork. It has to do with approving your own transactions and create a way to do double spending. The threat doesn't occur that easy, but it has happened ones that an ex-member of a bitcoin pool has tried to do it, but he didn't succeed eventually. Anyhow spreading to different pools is important. A small risk is still a risk.
At your service ...
im gona have to correct you that, a fork in the case of blockchain will only happen if a change in the software pertains to the block validation rules.
March 15, 2014, 07:16:05 PM
DOGE was once in the range of 10-30 satoshi, all you need is a popular idea, movement or meme that unites people into a community for your coin to succeed.
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
It went even below to 7-8 satochi.
Anyhow I want to give some explanation on a fork because some people seem not to understand what it means. The term fork is used a lot in the open source community. A fork is a new version of a piece of software but has the same base as the original software were it is created from. In the open source community, if the community is not happy with the way how the software is improved or handled, usually the community creates a fork and goes a different way (example is open office vs libre office). In that case 2 pieces of software doing almost the same thing exist at that moment. This is in such cases not a problem.
For cryptocoins this is different. The strength of cryptocoin is that the wallet and the cryptocurrency algorithm is distributed. So when a part of the systems using the cryptocoin software disappear, it still works as many systems over the whole world has that piece of software.
There is also a downside. When you need to update the software, all those systems needs to be updated. If that is not done properly, the system has 2 different pieces of software and then the question is which is correct. Normally the latest is always seen as correct, but sometimes it is also the largest distributed that is chosen. A fork is not always bad. A new version that does not alter the algorithm itself, can exist next to the older version, but in a distributed system, it is important to update when needed. However you always have to wait until the developper has officially released the version. It is possible that a developper added a version he still want to test in a real situation, so please wait always on a official release. And this looks what went wrong with CryptoRush. They saw a code change and immediately changed the code and therefor creating a fork themselves. Their system were not capable of handling this and more went wrong in their system.
So a fork is usually only a treat when new software is released. (there are other ways, but less common) What happens when a fork is created: if the fork is seen as the incorrect version, all the coins created by the fork are becoming useless and all the transfers with that fork are turned back to the situation from where the fork is created. If the new fork is the correct one, then the same thing applies to the older version, but only from the moment the fork was created.
So I hope it explains for some people how it works. The treat of having more then 51 percent in a pool has nothing to do with a fork. It has to do with approving your own transactions and create a way to do double spending. The threat doesn't occur that easy, but it has happened ones that an ex-member of a bitcoin pool has tried to do it, but he didn't succeed eventually. Anyhow spreading to different pools is important. A small risk is still a risk.
At your service ...
im gona have to correct you that, a fork in the case of blockchain will only happen if a change in the software pertains to the block validation rules.
March 15, 2014, 07:15:24 PM
HEEEEY MALAKA!
March 15, 2014, 07:08:05 PM
March 15, 2014, 06:55:41 PM
It means I realized if you're willing to lose a fan of Zeitcoin then the everything is clear how to be friends it help donation to various funds and promotes the idea of how to help a fan of so will go up hence invite your community Zeitcoin I even see your side
we can never be sure what you are saying
ha leave 'em alone, his translator isn't the best. but for the most part seems he is talking about building the community and wants to see ideas for how people can help. idk, that's what i got from it. i wish i knew of a better translator for the guy
just not sure who the reply is to...
he's my favourite poster of all time haha ok so he is from ukraine lets help this guy pls cause im sure there is some valid points somewhere in what he posts!
14aristokrat_ pls post the link to the translator you are using? I will attempt to find you a better one! also type something out in Ukrainian so I can check that it structures the english translation better...
я cпpoбyвaв шyкaти кpaщy пepeклaдaчa, aлe Google, здaєтьcя, бyти кpaщим.
http://imtranslator.net/translation/ukrainian/to-english/translation/
this one seems pretty good! i mean there are some mishaps but it translates the english back into Ukrainian so he can check to see what kind of message he is sending.
March 15, 2014, 06:44:36 PM
March 15, 2014, 06:43:47 PM
It means I realized if you're willing to lose a fan of Zeitcoin then the everything is clear how to be friends it help donation to various funds and promotes the idea of how to help a fan of so will go up hence invite your community Zeitcoin I even see your side
we can never be sure what you are saying
ha leave 'em alone, his translator isn't the best. but for the most part seems he is talking about building the community and wants to see ideas for how people can help. idk, that's what i got from it. i wish i knew of a better translator for the guy
just not sure who the reply is to...
he's my favourite poster of all time haha ok so he is from ukraine lets help this guy pls cause im sure there is some valid points somewhere in what he posts!
14aristokrat_ pls post the link to the translator you are using? I will attempt to find you a better one! also type something out in Ukrainian so I can check that it structures the english translation better...
я cпpoбyвaв шyкaти кpaщy пepeклaдaчa, aлe Google, здaєтьcя, бyти кpaщим.
March 15, 2014, 06:40:15 PM
For those of you looking for an alternative to hashstrike, you can come at http://zeit.hashfaster.com
It is a great pool, very fast and with no downtime since launch.
It is a great pool, very fast and with no downtime since launch.
March 15, 2014, 06:32:53 PM
DOGE was once in the range of 10-30 satoshi, all you need is a popular idea, movement or meme that unites people into a community for your coin to succeed.
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
It went even below to 7-8 satochi.
Anyhow I want to give some explanation on a fork because some people seem not to understand what it means. The term fork is used a lot in the open source community. A fork is a new version of a piece of software but has the same base as the original software were it is created from. In the open source community, if the community is not happy with the way how the software is improved or handled, usually the community creates a fork and goes a different way (example is open office vs libre office). In that case 2 pieces of software doing almost the same thing exist at that moment. This is in such cases not a problem.
For cryptocoins this is different. The strength of cryptocoin is that the wallet and the cryptocurrency algorithm is distributed. So when a part of the systems using the cryptocoin software disappear, it still works as many systems over the whole world has that piece of software.
There is also a downside. When you need to update the software, all those systems needs to be updated. If that is not done properly, the system has 2 different pieces of software and then the question is which is correct. Normally the latest is always seen as correct, but sometimes it is also the largest distributed that is chosen. A fork is not always bad. A new version that does not alter the algorithm itself, can exist next to the older version, but in a distributed system, it is important to update when needed. However you always have to wait until the developper has officially released the version. It is possible that a developper added a version he still want to test in a real situation, so please wait always on a official release. And this looks what went wrong with CryptoRush. They saw a code change and immediately changed the code and therefor creating a fork themselves. Their system were not capable of handling this and more went wrong in their system.
So a fork is usually only a treat when new software is released. (there are other ways, but less common) What happens when a fork is created: if the fork is seen as the incorrect version, all the coins created by the fork are becoming useless and all the transfers with that fork are turned back to the situation from where the fork is created. If the new fork is the correct one, then the same thing applies to the older version, but only from the moment the fork was created.
So I hope it explains for some people how it works. The treat of having more then 51 percent in a pool has nothing to do with a fork. It has to do with approving your own transactions and create a way to do double spending. The threat doesn't occur that easy, but it has happened ones that an ex-member of a bitcoin pool has tried to do it, but he didn't succeed eventually. Anyhow spreading to different pools is important. A small risk is still a risk.
At your service ...
March 15, 2014, 06:32:41 PM
this 21btc buy wall is pissing me off 
i wanna buy at 1sat and then it must shoot up to 10 hahah sigh
i wanna buy at 1sat and then it must shoot up to 10 hahah sighThis!
and
FYI, we're looking into an issue with payouts, it should be resolved shortly. Thank you!
Payouts are running again!
please implement worker disconnect algorithm to maintain sub 30% network hashrate
This too would be really great.
Would need to average out the net hashrate over a period of time ofcourse though, net rates fluctuate so much for all the reasons I'm quite sure you know
The bigger problem is that no other pools are even advertising in the thread here! They should be doing more to put themselves in front. It's tough when we not only have to handle the maintenance of our pool, but also add code to make it smaller?
As for any risks of a fork, there's an exceedingly low chance of this happening. I think people are scared of what happened with DogeCoin, but that was specifically due to some bugs in the wallet code that made the fork survive. Half the pools/exchanges were on one wallet, and the other half were on another.
We'll continue to monitor things, and if we see anything dangerous happening then we'll shut off a couple of our stratum servers temporarily to bounce people to other pools. That's the easiest way, since writing our own worker banning algorithm would take a LOT of work.
Dedicated pool has been good for me been mining there since launch.
March 15, 2014, 06:11:39 PM
It means I realized if you're willing to lose a fan of Zeitcoin then the everything is clear how to be friends it help donation to various funds and promotes the idea of how to help a fan of so will go up hence invite your community Zeitcoin I even see your side
we can never be sure what you are saying
ha leave 'em alone, his translator isn't the best. but for the most part seems he is talking about building the community and wants to see ideas for how people can help. idk, that's what i got from it. i wish i knew of a better translator for the guy
just not sure who the reply is to...
he's my favourite poster of all time haha ok so he is from ukraine lets help this guy pls cause im sure there is some valid points somewhere in what he posts!
14aristokrat_ pls post the link to the translator you are using? I will attempt to find you a better one! also type something out in Ukrainian so I can check that it structures the english translation better...
I agree. Even though I can hardly tell what he is trying to say at times, he is an active member, supporter and generous person. I'd drink a beer with him!
Long live the friendship
March 15, 2014, 06:05:52 PM
It means I realized if you're willing to lose a fan of Zeitcoin then the everything is clear how to be friends it help donation to various funds and promotes the idea of how to help a fan of so will go up hence invite your community Zeitcoin I even see your side
we can never be sure what you are saying
ha leave 'em alone, his translator isn't the best. but for the most part seems he is talking about building the community and wants to see ideas for how people can help. idk, that's what i got from it. i wish i knew of a better translator for the guy
just not sure who the reply is to...
he's my favourite poster of all time haha ok so he is from ukraine lets help this guy pls cause im sure there is some valid points somewhere in what he posts!
14aristokrat_ pls post the link to the translator you are using? I will attempt to find you a better one! also type something out in Ukrainian so I can check that it structures the english translation better...
March 15, 2014, 05:51:33 PM
Could someone tell me how to use a pool's API KEY? Doesn't that mean I could see my time spent in a pool? So how can I use it?
March 15, 2014, 05:27:59 PM
30Mh/s with 3Gh/s network should take 1hour to solve a block
We managed to shift about 20-30 or so on there yesterday/day before (depending on timezone) for 3-4 hours without getting lucky, hence my belief there's something wrong there, the orphan supports that theory too.
I'm sure they'll sort the problem, if they let us know here, hopefully we'll be able to put enoguh hashes over there to help them test their repairs.
Better still, get some folks budged from hashstrike over there (yea, right)
March 15, 2014, 05:24:20 PM
Quote
Yea, I know. Was 50/50 buying LOT or DOGE whenthey were both @ 30.
I chose wrong!
I chose wrong!
I made a similar bad buy trying to choose between Moon and Leaf, I choose to go 50-50 into both and they just sit there at 0.00000001
March 15, 2014, 05:19:06 PM
DOGE was once in the range of 10-30 satoshi, all you need is a popular idea, movement or meme that unites people into a community for your coin to succeed.
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
and DOGE supply growth rate was much higher
Yea, I know. Was 50/50 buying LOT or DOGE whenthey were both @ 30.
I chose wrong!
I think we`ll never find the block in http://zeit.morecoins.org/ i`m very disappointed.
I'd say the pool's broken, glad people aren't wasting their electric on it anymore (hope the pool figures itself out though and we can work it again).
Have to agree, there's something very wrong there. I pulled out earlier today but when +13Mh/s failed to crack it yesterday I kinda started quitting then & pulled my main rig onto Doge (to buy more Zees & generate some sell action)
Quite willing to go back when it's sorted, still pledged to send my (potential) 25KZ to the CR victim Fund.
30Mh/s with 3Gh/s network should take 1hour to solve a block
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