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Topic: [0 GH/s 0% fee SMPPS] ArsBitcoin mining pool! (Read 123773 times)

donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
He is not going to pay us what he owes us? I highly doubt ARS would do that...

This is a problem with SMPPS, not the pool op being a crook.
Yes and no. It's a problem with him apparently giving people the impression that it was owed in the first place.
To be fair, your page about SMPPS doesn't say that "extra credit" isn't guaranteed and may be lost if the pool stops mining with a negative buffer, either.

No, it doesn't, but Luke-jr has been at pains to mention it when it crops up from time to time, and once in this thread a few pages back. I don't think it's been left unclear on purpose, and if you read the explanation knowing that "extra credit" is not guaranteed you'll notice it is actually there:

Quote
The difference between a miner's actual (SMPPS) earnings and PPS earnings is retained as "extra credit", and considered in future blocks.

I agree that making it clearer would be useful - perhaps adding "and is not guaranteed" at the end there might help.


hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
He is not going to pay us what he owes us? I highly doubt ARS would do that...

This is a problem with SMPPS, not the pool op being a crook.
Yes and no. It's a problem with him apparently giving people the impression that it was owed in the first place.
To be fair, your page about SMPPS doesn't say that "extra credit" isn't guaranteed and may be lost if the pool stops mining with a negative buffer, either.

http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/Shared_Maximum_PPS

Quote
Miners accumulate Pay-Per-Share as usual. When a block is found, the pool counts the total unpaid PPS credits. If there are sufficient pool funds earned to pay them all in full PPS, that happens. If not, the miners are paid proportional to available funds. Remaining pool funds accumulate toward future payouts. The difference between a miner's actual (SMPPS) earnings and PPS earnings is retained as "extra credit", and considered in future blocks.

Maybe add something after "Remaining pool funds accumulate toward future payouts." to make this very clear.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
He is not going to pay us what he owes us? I highly doubt ARS would do that...

This is a problem with SMPPS, not the pool op being a crook.
Yes and no. It's a problem with him apparently giving people the impression that it was owed in the first place.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
He is not going to pay us what he owes us? I highly doubt ARS would do that...

This is a problem with SMPPS, not the pool op being a crook.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
He is not going to pay us what he owes us? I highly doubt ARS would do that...

BT is not officially Ars - he is among the Ars community, but he was operating independently. The pool name was its only association.

As regrettable as it is (I still think BT should've accepted assistance), the pool has been functioning without direct management for a long time and the persistently negative buffer was a bad sign. It probably would've been best to shut the pool down well before now, but what's done is done.

Keep things in perspective - any loss here is peanuts by comparison and certainly not malicious as other events were, like the 2011 Mt Gox or recent Linode hack.
sr. member
Activity: 445
Merit: 250
How do I get my 58 unpaid coins?
Shows my account balance is 0.

I'm sure I am just missing something.
Sorry, I misunderstood.

I think this is the answer:
Quote from: burningtoad in email
As for the unpaid SMPPS buffer, there isn't much I can do about it.  This means that "Unpaid work" will not get paid at this point.  Even if I turned mining back on, there is no saying whether the buffer would go up or down.  I also do not have the 900ish bitcoins to pay out of my own pocket (as costs are already a problem.)  I hope you can understand the SMPPS payment model always had this possibility.
What Hpman said. (I type too slow!)
full member
Activity: 176
Merit: 100
How do I get my 58 unpaid coins?
Shows my account balance is 0.

I'm sure I am just missing something.

Quote
As for the unpaid SMPPS buffer, there isn't much I can do about it.  This means that "Unpaid work" will not get paid at this point.  Even if I turned mining back on, there is no saying whether the buffer would go up or down.  I also do not have the 900ish bitcoins to pay out of my own pocket (as costs are already a problem.)  I hope you can understand the SMPPS payment model always had this possibility.

Don't no why there is no inside the buffer but i'm afraid unpaid value will be lost.

Hpman
sr. member
Activity: 445
Merit: 250
I have 58 bitcoins locked in here. I got an e-mail saying I should claim them. However I do not understand how I can do this. Any help? Am I just being dumb?

Thanks
Scroll down your account page (https://arsbitcoin.com/accountdetails.php), you'll find a "cash out" section.

legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
I'd love to see Ars keep running.   I don't use Eligius due to the long wait required to reach the payout amount (or at least that's why I stopped using it a long, long time ago, and haven't been back to check if anything changed).
Why does this matter?  Do you really need your coins immediately?  And it's actually MORE secure since it's impossible for Luke to run off with the coins.

Don't suppose it matters too much, but It'd just be a backup pool for me, so it takes forever to get to the payout amount.
If you don't mine for over a week, Eligius will payout regardless of amount.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
I'd love to see Ars keep running.   I don't use Eligius due to the long wait required to reach the payout amount (or at least that's why I stopped using it a long, long time ago, and haven't been back to check if anything changed).
Why does this matter?  Do you really need your coins immediately?  And it's actually MORE secure since it's impossible for Luke to run off with the coins.

Don't suppose it matters too much, but It'd just be a backup pool for me, so it takes forever to get to the payout amount.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
I'd love to see Ars keep running.   I don't use Eligius due to the long wait required to reach the payout amount (or at least that's why I stopped using it a long, long time ago, and haven't been back to check if anything changed).
Why does this matter?  Do you really need your coins immediately?  And it's actually MORE secure since it's impossible for Luke to run off with the coins.
newbie
Activity: 43
Merit: 0
He posted only a few days ago that he will give 30/60/90 days advance notice, that was his most recent post so that is what we should take from him.
Yeah, it's kind of rude to make such pronouncements and then fail to fulfill them, but perhaps Burning Toad is so out of the loop that he hasn't even bothered to check on the pool's status since then, or even bothered to look at the forums to see everyone trashing him.  I'd assume he would have set up alerts to notify him of any catastrophic failure of the pool, and if he didn't, the pool really needs a more conscientious admin.  But since it doesn't seem like anything will happen soon, I'm tempted to just give up on Ars and cash out.  My miners are all happily hashing away on a different pool right now, but I have about 4.24 BTC sitting in the unpaid work queue on Ars, and I'd hate to just lose it.  I know it's not much, but I increased my donation level in November after BT said he was losing money on the venture because I wanted to help him out.  I guess I just donated another 4.24 BTC to the lost cause. 

Hey, I just checked the stats and realized that donation puts me in the list of the TOP 20 donors to ArsBitcoin!  You're welcome, BT! Grin
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
When BT 1st posted about his issues in November many people offered to take over/ help/whatever it took to keep Ars going (including me) I had no response and I have not heard of anyone else getting a response.

taking over now compared to then....would seem ... a lot less viable....and way more risky
Shame its gone this way, but guys you gotta cut your losses sometime, and really Novembers post was fair warning Smiley
best of luck with your future pools Smiley
Graet

He posted only a few days ago that he will give 30/60/90 days advance notice, that was his most recent post so that is what we should take from him.

Not living up to that makes him no less a corrupt member than any other person around here. Some people considered to continue mining due to this message and continue donating which he happily soaked up and then suddenly kill the server and not respond to this thread.
vip
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
When BT 1st posted about his issues in November many people offered to take over/ help/whatever it took to keep Ars going (including me) I had no response and I have not heard of anyone else getting a response.

taking over now compared to then....would seem ... a lot less viable....and way more risky
Shame its gone this way, but guys you gotta cut your losses sometime, and really Novembers post was fair warning Smiley
best of luck with your future pools Smiley
Graet
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
I'd love to see Ars keep running.   I don't use Eligius due to the long wait required to reach the payout amount (or at least that's why I stopped using it a long, long time ago, and haven't been back to check if anything changed).
Current minimum payout is about 0.67 BTC. But that's only really there for miners' convenience, so subject to change by popular vote...

To be honest I'd rather see Ars back up, even if under new management, than move back to Eligius though, just due to questionable decisions by the owner in the past. 
I suspect you refer to FUD/slander.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
I'd love to see Ars keep running.   I don't use Eligius due to the long wait required to reach the payout amount (or at least that's why I stopped using it a long, long time ago, and haven't been back to check if anything changed).

To be honest I'd rather see Ars back up, even if under new management, than move back to Eligius though, just due to questionable decisions by the owner in the past. 
legendary
Activity: 4634
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
The pool is dead this morning, with no advance notice at all, the one remaining server seems to have crashed 11 hours ago and no one is awake to re-boot it.
It was only about 24 hours ago that we (developers) realized all miners without BIP16 support would likely suffer to 100% orphanage when it became enforced. Given Ars's lack of maintenance, I can't say I'm surprised by the turn of events. It could be worse, though - the server could be giving out worthless work.
...
Not technically correct.
A miner will not be effected if they are mining on a pool that has upgraded.

If they use their bitcoind to do certain types of transactions (this has nothing to do with mining) they can have issues.
They, of course, should upgrade to reduce the number of node on the network that will accept the bad transactions.
Until the pools are all upgraded, however, the forks will keep happening.

... I'm keeping my bitcoind not upgraded for a while so I can see the forks that happen ... like 20 minutes ago Smiley

Edit: and one minute after this post.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
The pool is dead this morning, with no advance notice at all, the one remaining server seems to have crashed 11 hours ago and no one is awake to re-boot it.
It was only about 24 hours ago that we (developers) realized all miners without BIP16 support would likely suffer to 100% orphanage when it became enforced. Given Ars's lack of maintenance, I can't say I'm surprised by the turn of events. It could be worse, though - the server could be giving out worthless work.

I'd be happy to take on the task of resurrecting ArsBitcoin, but I'm not a developer and would essentially have to train myself in how to administer it, but I'm a sysadmin in my day job and could probably figure it out.  If you're serious about helping maintain the pool, I'd like to know if Burning Toad would be interested in handing over the admin stuff and moving on.  I thought it was a fine pool, and I really enjoyed mining here and honestly, I'm too lazy (and busy with my day job) to start a new pool from scratch.  The pool is already built and relatively stable and functioned headless for months after BT "retired," so I don't think it would be too much of a headache to kickstart, but perhaps I'm an optimist.
FWIW, I run Eligius, the original SMPPS pool. I'm not sure why people used Ars over Eligius, but maybe with a few people could contribute whatever they felt Eligius was lacking in (Eligius is a community pool; any community member can get an account on the webserver to add new services/etc)?

While I'd help BT out by patching Ars, I don't intend to get involved with running another pool long-term.
newbie
Activity: 43
Merit: 0
FWIW, I offered to do the update for BurningToad (I want to get the stable backports tested). Haven't heard back yet.

This was actually my favorite pool, and I've been mining here for months.  I stayed even after BT said he couldn't maintain it and would eventually close it down, but promised all miners at least 30 days notice.

The pool is dead this morning, with no advance notice at all, the one remaining server seems to have crashed 11 hours ago and no one is awake to re-boot it.

I'd be happy to take on the task of resurrecting ArsBitcoin, but I'm not a developer and would essentially have to train myself in how to administer it, but I'm a sysadmin in my day job and could probably figure it out.  If you're serious about helping maintain the pool, I'd like to know if Burning Toad would be interested in handing over the admin stuff and moving on.  I thought it was a fine pool, and I really enjoyed mining here and honestly, I'm too lazy (and busy with my day job) to start a new pool from scratch.  The pool is already built and relatively stable and functioned headless for months after BT "retired," so I don't think it would be too much of a headache to kickstart, but perhaps I'm an optimist.

Who's with me?
legendary
Activity: 4634
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
FWIW, I offered to do the update for BurningToad (I want to get the stable backports tested). Haven't heard back yet.
You forgot to add
Quote
also, my patches don't actually enable BIP16. they just work within the rules, so it doesn't make orphans.
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