Topic: #1 RATINGS of BITCOIN SPORTSBOOKS since 2014 : KYC Rankings, Bonuses, Scam Accus - page 116. (Read 260326 times)

gogo - attempted double spend doesn't mean that you tried to double spend. It means that you may have tried to double spend. It may have already shown up on a couple of your bets.

You mention two situations where the book has made an error, or in the case of a "bad number" at least claims to have made an error.
In those situations, a player could legitimately not know the start time or not know the market line (many only use 1 book), and so I have pretty much always sided with the player in those circumstances and generally have felt that the bet and deposit should be paid unless a serious attempt was made to notify the player and the book is also going to refund losing bets that were also made after the game started or losing bets on the other side of the "bad" number (and the book can then 86 the player after they pay him if they don't want to deal with him any longer).


As you may recall, when a new book appears, several times I've posted in this thread pointing out language in their T&C which is questionable, such as "We can confiscate funds if a player is part of a betting syndicate" and other such egregious language (which to me is simply scamming/free rolling on the book's part).
In the case of Anonibet, I persisted on trying to get them to clarify a vague statement that if a player deposits and doesn't bet and then withdraws, they can keep 5% if they wish. Etc.

And in a number of cases, books did then modify their T&C to make them more "player friendly".

So I am or have been opposed to anything that can allow a book to take a shot at a player.




Btc books have a circumstance that is new with bitcoins.

Double spend presents a new way to scam, as in the case which Directbet alleges.

If a person tries to commit credit card fraud or bank fraud with checks, etc., this will ultimately result in criminal charges by the bank or the cc company.


But with btc, a player can takes shots at businesses accepting btc all day long.
Perhaps, as you feel, the correct thing is for the business that catches an attempt at a doublespend to simply state "We caught you. Here's your btc back."

But it seems then the scammer has nothing to lose, and for that matter may as well try again.

If the business instead states "We caught you. We're keeping your funds because you tried to cheat us", this would be a strong incentive for scammers not to mess with them.

I've never thought about this until now, and wasn't even aware of doublespend until now, but these are my initial thoughts on this type of situation. So I'm basically stating that I can see the book's point of view on this issue in a case where it is demonstrable that the doublespender was scamming.
Apparently in this case due to all Directbet has stated, this person has a history of this, he didn't deny it at first and agreed not to do it again, the way the doublespend attempt was made seems to be demonstrable, etc.

In this case, Directbet is willing to return the funds, conditionally. So it appears to me they're making a compromise and their primary goal with this incident is not to steal the btc.


I realize that this rule opens the door for books to take shots at players if there is an accidental doublespend. I don't understand how that happens but if it does occur, it could create potential future conflicts.



What would you do if you were a book and someone tried an obvious doublespend?

gogo - You've been around the block. Players take shots at books all the time playing bad numbers or after games have been started. None of the books confiscate deposits as a punishment. They cancel winnings. DirectBet confiscated a deposit and that should never be done.

hungerstyle - In their thread, Directbet states (I'm numbering the claims, the rest I've copied and pasted):


1) "You will notice the transaction was double spent in the exact same manner he planned to double spend his bet in case it loses.

He deliberately sent it as a big sized transaction with significantly low fees at first, and later double spent it in a transaction with excessive fees, much higher fees than required to ensure the double spend is executed immediately on the next block."




2) "If you look at his posts you will see that for several days he tried to avoid posting the payout address of his bet, because he knew this would be an evidence of his fraudulent activity, and not just towards DirectBet."




3) "When we first confronted him with our findings he did not deny his double spend attempt. Moreover, he agreed not to do it again if we return his original wager. However, when we asked him to sign a formal agreement he refused."



4) "Later on he informed us that he is not the person who sent this bet transfer and that he does not own the payout address used for this bet."



5) "When we asked to get in touch with the person who actually sent this bet transfer and who owns the payout address, he said that this person is "not available". "



I assume Directbet has evidence of all of these claims using emails and pm's in your mutual correspondence.
If so, it seems clear that they have a solid case against you.

Under each numbered quote, can you state what you disagree with if anything, and post any proof of your disagreements if you have any.

directbet, still waiting on you send payment.

Proof?

Bet graded today.  Thank you. 

Waylon James

DirectBet uses many ghost accounts to shill for DirectBet and bash competitors. He was completely banned from this current thread but I let him post to defend himself. DirectBet uses ghost accounts in all polls. If he goes off topic one more time, all posts will be deleted by DirectBet.

 

hybershire

DirectBet knows the rules of the thread. Posters can say anything. Books must stick to their own book.

Here we go again,  focusing on peeps place instead of  sorting things out with hungerstyle.

@  peepsplace why do you keep deleting directbet.eu posts? Not cool unless you have something to hide.... I was just about to reply to something they posted,  but can't find it.

directbet.eu this back and fort between yourself and peepsplace is just diversionary. Why are you finding it difficult returning the stake back to hungerstyle? Is it because of the amount involved? If it were a few cents , would you  let it play out this long? It is just plain wrong. Sort this out asap. None of my business but I think you should be called to order. Other users should be made aware that you potentially could arbitrarily confisticate their funds whenever you choose to. The evidence so far points to a potential double spend attempt. But it is not conclusive, you cannot say for sure. You received the funds afterall.You already agreed to pay back the money, how about acting in good faith and doing just that instead of shifting the goal post @ every opportunity?

Hi FastEddie

I'm looking into this for you. Cheers.

Apologies for the inconvenience and thanks for your patience and understanding.

Cloudbet

I use third party, I give them money and they send bitcoin. I tell directbet this many time but they see chance to make quick btc.




Your so call fraud after nadal lose is already proven not true and people see your site not safe for large player


Directbet


1. This is all opinin and your biased.

2. I use a local exchange as told for quick btc. I am told to pay right after nadal win because on blockchain. I tell you this from day 1.

3. You never send an agreement so saying he not sign is not true bc you never send. My screenshot prove this. Agreement in btc is funny and mean nothing too but still you never send.  Also bet was make before event even start. You can tell by odds of bet URL and starting odd, also you claim after 1st set loss fraud send. So not live in play like you claim. You lie so many time and screenshot / odds / bet all show this.

4. Of course local exchange who english is not a skill not want to deal with you, they have they money. Deal with you is like pull teeth.  

5. They are my coin. I pay for and now you still not send agreement. I already post email screen show this.

6. I avoid posting original becuase as say not ideal address for send because much different now to send 3 weeks later.

7. Just since not log in for 24 hours does not mean guilty. Such bad logic.

8. Community agree you not as high mighty as you think you are, vote D by many senior people. You will lose big player  long run some have even message me.

Having read this thread and the scam accusation,  disgusting behaviour from direct bet. Coupled with the worst odds for any bitcoin sports book, or any book for that matter.  Only idiots play there.

DirectBet - Please keep your discussion to DirectBet only. As per thread rules, discussion on other books is not allowed and will be deleted as so not to clog up this thread. It's not fair for other books to have to come in to defend themselves.

You have no proof of this and is 100% opinion and speculation.

Not only is the TX you provide prove to be before nadal begins unlike you claim but it is mathematically invalid.

The input was spend 24 hour before nadal even begins. If you dont use this exact input then it mathematically changes the hash/TXID. Since you can not spend this input at time of nadal, it is true the hash you provide is not fraud. You would need a different TX for fraud double spend.

So again there is no TXID that supports a double spend attempt AFTER nadal or any fraudulant attempt.

You ask me to post address to verify for all so we see when you send coin. I already email you the original address to verify AND the ideal new payout address both match forum and email so you know identity.  Just delay delay delay

You think not me? How come no oneelse post or write. You think just go by by with no word? Both bet? RIIIIIIIGHT. No you just delay.

I did not want you to make send to original address because I do not have control because I buy action local same day for same payout.

Same local exchnage who not help me communicate with you , very obvious why not want to support local exchange any more and to be sure before you send off randoml like bad child with temper.

Directbet, your website display confirm bet of which I make trade on. That is directbet reputation of which I was sold to to begin with.

It is one thing (although shady)as business to say our code not work correct. But wrong to confiscate without anything but 100% proof and that you not have.


Original bet payout address: 1E66h8kzMvmQobkQDDtSwxmR8SDzUxqzhd (match email)

But request payout to: 1Ff4iUkdiY1LbMjXBKb8mnpEYg1ZsHYSPM because user may want new address for infinite reason to send 3 weeks late.

If you need send 1E66, fine, atleast not bad directbet and not directbet problem

I tired of your silly email and I will post all to imgur so all can see entire way directbet to treat customer and it look like this not first time bad direcbe to player. Entire situation just show every big player to think twice before send.

Had the bet lost, we wouldn't have received the coins.

This would incur a loss to us, and he did not leave contact information.