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Topic: Account wiped with $64k on Rollbit.com - page 6. (Read 2641 times)

legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1061
July 10, 2024, 03:19:03 PM
#91
Edit- this is why I say you always start off taking the book’s side. The onus is on the book to prove guilt.

There’s a legal process to become a “resident” of a country.

First, about your edit [we'll leave your other edit and ninja edit on this thread untouched]. How on earth this is me "taking the book's side"? I literally brainstorming a way for OP to prove his innocence. How? By all means, please tell me.

It’s futile at this point. The OP misused the term “resident”,  just as you did with “slander”. I still knew the meaning of what you tried to convey and you should do the same. I’m out because no matter what I say, you aren’t changing your mind. The same goes for Rollbit. They are stealing the OP’s money.They should change their ToS.

No, no, it's not futile, and this is not about me changing my mind. Far from it. It's about convincing Rollbit. We're trying to help OP here and he's asking for an input on some prove or suggestion for him to do to make the things go forward.

I gave some ideas to help him disprove his statement about UK residency as it is currently what Rollbit held against him, and it seems you somehow perceive them as... hmm... I'm not sure...taking the book's side? Or is it ineffective? Or is it your primal instinct to jump and argue to all of my point, without really digesting what I tried to say, due to that prejudice that I am always taking books side?

Anyway, please, for the sake of OP, give us your input.
It’s futile to try and convince Rollbit if they aren’t going to accept resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. Our time is better spent to try and help others.

Edit- change of mind on regulatory means. Rollbit needs to be forced to pay and that’s the only possibility, even if the chances are slim.

legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1462
Yes, I'm an asshole
July 10, 2024, 02:51:12 PM
#90
Edit- this is why I say you always start off taking the book’s side. The onus is on the book to prove guilt.

There’s a legal process to become a “resident” of a country.

First, about your edit [we'll leave your other edit and ninja edit on this thread untouched]. How on earth this is me "taking the book's side"? I literally brainstorming a way for OP to prove his innocence. How? By all means, please tell me.

It’s futile at this point. The OP misused the term “resident”,  just as you did with “slander”. I still knew the meaning of what you tried to convey and you should do the same. I’m out because no matter what I say, you aren’t changing your mind. The same goes for Rollbit. They are stealing the OP’s money.They should change their ToS.

No, no, it's not futile, and this is not about me changing my mind. Far from it. It's about convincing Rollbit. We're trying to help OP here and he's asking for an input on some prove or suggestion for him to do to make the things go forward.

I gave some ideas to help him disprove his statement about UK residency as it is currently what Rollbit held against him, and it seems you somehow perceive them as... hmm... I'm not sure...taking the book's side? Or is it ineffective? Or is it your primal instinct to jump and argue to all of my point, without really digesting what I tried to say, due to that prejudice that I am always taking books side?

Anyway, please, for the sake of OP, give us your input.
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1061
July 10, 2024, 02:39:45 PM
#89
Let’s say he’s a current resident of England. People do move. He says he resided in LUX during play and has supporting evidence.

I assume you're referring residence permit of LUX as his supporting evidence? Can he prove that he's still in Luxembourg soil when he played and not in UK? His IP address showed UK, he made statements [here, to us] that he's frequently commuting to UK, and even if the same situation with Vodavone Spain applies to his UK provider, that his IP will ping him as UK regardless of his actual location, it doesn't omit a possibility that he's indeed in UK during one of the session.

Amuse me, how do you propose OP should prove that his words is true, that he never, not once, played when he's in UK soil, despite his IP pinged to UK?
It doesn’t matter where the play came from. Also there is a difference between where you are living and what country you are a “resident” from. Living in a country for a year doesn’t make you a “resident” of the country. The OP didn’t break the ToS.

How? If the play come from UK or Spain [or other restricted territory] it certainly will be considered as a breach of ToS. So, it matters where the play come from. Unless I am wrongly seeing this, so how is it not matter? Please indulge me with an easy to understand explanation.

As for the residency situation, here's a simple break down: their ToS prohibit a resident of UK to play on their platform. OP made a statement that he's a UK resident, supported by UK IP. So let me ask you again, how do you propose OP to prove that he never, not once, played from UK?

Let's make it a bit more complicated. He made a statement that he's a UK resident. Even with LUX residence permit, which shows the date of expiracy, but doesn't [obviously] tell us whether he stays until the expiration date or he has moved to other country and have another residence permit there, it opens to a possibility that he [at any point from the residency permit of LUX being issued to this day] actually have a situation as he said, that he's no longer in LUX and has become a UK semi-permanent resident.

He retracted his statement of being a UK resident and said that he commute to UK on frequent basis [if I'm not mistaken] only after it's being pointed out to him that UK is also a restricted territory. Worsen that with the fact that not even once his IP pinged to be from LUX [that whole wifi situation]. Bring this to any court, even civil court, I believe most will see it as an attempt to change a narrative to save himself from self-incrimination. Unless, he can prove that he's indeed only made up that incriminating statement for whatever reason, that it's false and that he's still commute to UK because his base is still in LUX.

They are willing [at least that's the impression I get as they're still opening a communication with OP] to listen to OP's defense, I tend to believe it's a very short window that will closes soon by the numbers of correspondencies he has with their team. So unless you can suggest OP a way to prove that he never access from within UK soil despite what his IP said, the better option will be to disprove his own statement of being UK resident, so yes, it needs to be recanted. I believe I don't need to explain that even with the UK provider giving the same explanation as Spain Vodavone, it doesn't directly disprove OP to have ever play from UK.

Pursuing the possibility to produce a supporting document that his employment transfers only become effective on certain date after 10th of June, or if he can provide them with UK residence permit [if I'm not wrong, it has date of issuance on it], we will have a small blip of hope that his previous UK residency statement/situation is not valid, since being rather full time in LUX and temporarily in UK [since he only commute instead of having a residence permit] would give a smaller chance for him to access Rollbit from UK soil compared to if he's being in UK full time.

If you have a better suggestion to help OP gets out of this situation, perhaps help him with the wifi situation as that's what asked by Rollbit's team, if not a way to prove he never play from within UK soil, I'm all ears.
It’s futile at this point. The OP misused the term “resident”,  just as you did with “slander”. I still knew the meaning of what you tried to convey and you should do the same. I’m out because no matter what I say, you aren’t changing your mind. The same goes for Rollbit. They are stealing the OP’s money.They should change their ToS.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1462
Yes, I'm an asshole
July 10, 2024, 02:31:04 PM
#88
Let’s say he’s a current resident of England. People do move. He says he resided in LUX during play and has supporting evidence.

I assume you're referring residence permit of LUX as his supporting evidence? Can he prove that he's still in Luxembourg soil when he played and not in UK? His IP address showed UK, he made statements [here, to us] that he's frequently commuting to UK, and even if the same situation with Vodavone Spain applies to his UK provider, that his IP will ping him as UK regardless of his actual location, it doesn't omit a possibility that he's indeed in UK during one of the session.

Amuse me, how do you propose OP should prove that his words is true, that he never, not once, played when he's in UK soil, despite his IP pinged to UK?
It doesn’t matter where the play came from. Also there is a difference between where you are living and what country you are a “resident” from. Living in a country for a year doesn’t make you a “resident” of the country. The OP didn’t break the ToS.

How? If the play come from UK or Spain [or other restricted territory] it certainly will be considered as a breach of ToS. So, it matters where the play come from. Unless I am wrongly seeing this, so how is it not matter? Please indulge me with an easy to understand explanation.

As for the residency situation, here's a simple break down: their ToS prohibit a resident of UK to play on their platform. OP made a statement that he's a UK resident, supported by UK IP. So let me ask you again, how do you propose OP to prove that he never, not once, played from UK?

Let's make it a bit more complicated. He made a statement that he's a UK resident. Even with LUX residence permit, which shows the date of expiracy, but doesn't [obviously] tell us whether he stays until the expiration date or he has moved to other country and have another residence permit there, it opens to a possibility that he [at any point from the residency permit of LUX being issued to this day] actually have a situation as he said, that he's no longer in LUX and has become a UK semi-permanent resident.

He retracted his statement of being a UK resident and said that he commute to UK on frequent basis [if I'm not mistaken] only after it's being pointed out to him that UK is also a restricted territory. Worsen that with the fact that not even once his IP pinged to be from LUX [that whole wifi situation]. Bring this to any court, even civil court, I believe most will see it as an attempt to change a narrative to save himself from self-incrimination. Unless, he can prove that he's indeed only made up that incriminating statement for whatever reason, that it's false and that he's still commute to UK because his base is still in LUX.

They are willing [at least that's the impression I get as they're still opening a communication with OP] to listen to OP's defense, I tend to believe it's a very short window that will closes soon by the numbers of correspondencies he has with their team. So unless you can suggest OP a way to prove that he never access from within UK soil despite what his IP said, the better option will be to disprove his own statement of being UK resident, so yes, it needs to be recanted. I believe I don't need to explain that even with the UK provider giving the same explanation as Spain Vodavone, it doesn't directly disprove OP to have ever play from UK.

Pursuing the possibility to produce a supporting document that his employment transfers only become effective on certain date after 10th of June, or if he can provide them with UK residence permit [if I'm not wrong, it has date of issuance on it], we will have a small blip of hope that his previous UK residency statement/situation is not valid, since being rather full time in LUX and temporarily in UK [since he only commute instead of having a residence permit] would give a smaller chance for him to access Rollbit from UK soil compared to if he's being in UK full time.

If you have a better suggestion to help OP gets out of this situation, perhaps help him with the wifi situation as that's what asked by Rollbit's team, if not a way to prove he never play from within UK soil, I'm all ears.
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1061
July 10, 2024, 01:50:47 PM
#87
Let’s say he’s a current resident of England. People do move. He says he resided in LUX during play and has supporting evidence.

I assume you're referring residence permit of LUX as his supporting evidence? Can he prove that he's still in Luxembourg soil when he played and not in UK? His IP address showed UK, he made statements [here, to us] that he's frequently commuting to UK, and even if the same situation with Vodavone Spain applies to his UK provider, that his IP will ping him as UK regardless of his actual location, it doesn't omit a possibility that he's indeed in UK during one of the session.

Amuse me, how do you propose OP should prove that his words is true, that he never, not once, played when he's in UK soil, despite his IP pinged to UK?
It doesn’t matter where the play came from. Also there is a difference between where you are living and what country you are a “resident”. Living in a country for a year doesn’t make you a “resident” of the country. The OP didn’t break the ToS.

Edit- this is why I say you always start off taking the book’s side. The onus is on the book to prove guilt.

There’s a legal process to become a “resident” of a country.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1462
Yes, I'm an asshole
July 10, 2024, 01:43:39 PM
#86
Let’s say he’s a current resident of England. People do move. He says he resided in LUX during play and has supporting evidence.

I assume you're referring residence permit of LUX as his supporting evidence? Can he prove that he's still in Luxembourg soil when he played and not in UK? His IP address showed UK, he made statements [here, to us] that he's frequently commuting to UK, and even if the same situation with Vodavone Spain applies to his UK provider, that his IP will ping him as UK regardless of his actual location, it doesn't omit a possibility that he's indeed in UK during one of the session.

Amuse me, how do you propose OP should prove that his words is true, that he never, not once, played when he's in UK soil, despite his IP pinged to UK?
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1061
July 10, 2024, 01:30:26 PM
#85
The situation with OP was that he made a written statement that he's currently a resident of London. Regardless of the statement was made just to simplify his situation, and he simply didn't want to overcomplicate an explanation, OP can't simply retract it now and change them due to the self-incriminating nature of it.

Given Rollbit doesn't shut themselves completely and allows OP to prove his situation, several solution that, though all of them seems a long shot, crossed my mind that probably could remedy this and help OP retract the statement are:

One, if OP perhaps have an official instruction letter from his office ordering him to move to London, with effective date written on it. Though I think it's quite unlikely for a company to issue such letter if the transfer happens "internally" [within the same company].

Two, OP can perhaps requested such letter from his HR department or whichever department issue the kind of document, explaining that he's indeed will be a resident of UK in a near future instead of already been them.

Or, three, if OP happen to yet to have UK residence permit prior to this [since he commutes and only stays for very short duration, I think there is a chance he didn't apply to this before], and only have them now or in the near future, the residence permit has its date of issuance on it, it shall prove that during the previous months, OP are not a UK resident
Let’s say he’s a current resident of England. People do move. He says he resided in LUX during play and has supporting evidence. This is a clear cut win for the OP in any court, even in civil courts.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1462
Yes, I'm an asshole
July 10, 2024, 01:28:55 PM
#84
The situation with OP was that he made a written statement that he's currently a resident of London. Regardless of the statement was made just to simplify his situation, and he simply didn't want to overcomplicate an explanation, OP can't simply retract it now and change them due to the self-incriminating nature of it.

Given Rollbit doesn't shut themselves completely and allows OP to prove his situation, several solution that, though all of them seems a long shot, crossed my mind that probably could remedy this and help OP retract the statement are:

One, if OP perhaps have an official instruction letter from his office ordering him to move to London, with effective date written on it. Though I think it's quite unlikely for a company to issue such letter if the transfer happens "internally" [within the same company].

Two, OP can perhaps requested such letter from his HR department or whichever department issue the kind of document, explaining that he's indeed will be a resident of UK in a near future instead of already been them.

Or, three, if OP happen to yet to have UK residence permit prior to this [since he commutes and only stays for very short duration, I think there is a chance he didn't apply to this before], and only have them now or in the near future, the residence permit has its date of issuance on it, it shall prove that during the previous months, OP are not a UK resident
I don’t think the OP has to recant anything. He said he’s currently living in the UK but wasn’t at the time of his play. All proof that Rollbit has submitted is subordinate to a resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. Since the weight of the evidence is in favor of the OP, nothing else is needed. He doesn’t have to prove that he’s innocent beyond a shadow of doubt. Rollbit hasn’t proved guilt beyond doubt. If one party has to present more evidence, it would be Rollbit.

OP made a statement, that he's a resident of UK. That exact keyword. Resident.



Granted, OP explained to us that he made that statement so that they'll [TBH, up to this day, I'm not sure the correlation of them and how does such outcome expected to happen] release his fund without KYC and he's in fact still a resident of LUX and only visit London on short-time-but-frequent basis.

I don't think it will acceptable as an ommission from record on any adjudicative body without any action from OP. Which.. is what we try to achieve here.

Someone said at some point that he's a resident of UK, and at other point, he got pointed out that UK is a restricted territory, and he later said that he's actually not a resident of UK, would that word be taken for granted instead of an [involuntary] admission of guilt?

Rollbit did gave a prove of guilt, which actually became the basis of this entire discussion, OP's IP on their log shows UK and Spain. Again, granted, OP explained that it's due to his mobile data, as supported by Vodavone Spain, so we can cross the Spain situation, but it is yet to be explained by his UK provider. And even if the UK provider explained the same as Vodavone, that their data carrier will still shows UK as their IP when the user is in LUX, it doesn't close to a possibility that OP played from UK during his visits. Unless we take it at face value.

Which... We actually kinda do. We gave OP benefit of doubts and take his word for it, that he never played when he's on UK soil. No ToS being violated. That's why, we [well, I] suggested him several ways to prove his innocence against the incriminating evidence [his admission and his IP record].

Bottomline, OP made a statement that self incriminate himself, and contrary to what you believe, he need to recant this. Rollbit provides him a chance to do so. Both of this leads to my suggestion.



p.s.: One thing that worth mentioning, I find AHOYBRAUSE's question about wifi rather interesting and a valid question to be answered, but I am not venturing over it and would let ahoy pursue this matter if he deemed it fit. I rather choose to focus on a way for OP to resolve this matter.
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1061
July 10, 2024, 12:42:37 PM
#83
The situation with OP was that he made a written statement that he's currently a resident of London. Regardless of the statement was made just to simplify his situation, and he simply didn't want to overcomplicate an explanation, OP can't simply retract it now and change them due to the self-incriminating nature of it.

Given Rollbit doesn't shut themselves completely and allows OP to prove his situation, several solution that, though all of them seems a long shot, crossed my mind that probably could remedy this and help OP retract the statement are:

One, if OP perhaps have an official instruction letter from his office ordering him to move to London, with effective date written on it. Though I think it's quite unlikely for a company to issue such letter if the transfer happens "internally" [within the same company].

Two, OP can perhaps requested such letter from his HR department or whichever department issue the kind of document, explaining that he's indeed will be a resident of UK in a near future instead of already been them.

Or, three, if OP happen to yet to have UK residence permit prior to this [since he commutes and only stays for very short duration, I think there is a chance he didn't apply to this before], and only have them now or in the near future, the residence permit has its date of issuance on it, it shall prove that during the previous months, OP are not a UK resident
I don’t think the OP has to recant anything. He said he’s currently living in the UK but wasn’t at the time of his play. All proof that Rollbit has submitted is subordinate to a resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. Since the weight of the evidence is in favor of the OP, nothing else is needed. He doesn’t have to prove that he’s innocent beyond a shadow of doubt. Rollbit hasn’t proved guilt beyond doubt. If one party has to present more evidence, it would be Rollbit.

Edit- let’s pretend this is a court of law.

Prosecutor - where do you reside?
OP - In Lux and shows resident permit, rental agreement and bank statement.

Prosecutor - why don’t any of your log ins come from LUX.
OP - says what he stated here.

The excuse for IP may not be true but it’s not conclusive. IP is Rollbit’s whole argument. Rollbit needed a change in ToS to win.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1462
Yes, I'm an asshole
July 10, 2024, 12:15:13 PM
#82
The situation with OP was that he made a written statement that he's currently a resident of London. Regardless of the statement was made just to simplify his situation, and he simply didn't want to overcomplicate an explanation, OP can't simply retract it now and change them due to the self-incriminating nature of it.

Given Rollbit doesn't shut themselves completely and allows OP to prove his situation, several solution that, though all of them seems a long shot, crossed my mind that probably could remedy this and help OP retract the statement are:

One, if OP perhaps have an official instruction letter from his office ordering him to move to London, with effective date written on it. Though I think it's quite unlikely for a company to issue such letter if the transfer happens "internally" [within the same company].

Two, OP can perhaps requested such letter from his HR department or whichever department issue the kind of document, explaining that he's indeed will be a resident of UK in a near future instead of already been them.

Or, three, if OP happen to yet to have UK residence permit prior to this [since he commutes and only stays for very short duration, I think there is a chance he didn't apply to this before], and only have them now or in the near future, the residence permit has its date of issuance on it, it shall prove that during the previous months, OP are not a UK resident
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1061
July 09, 2024, 10:59:35 PM
#81
snip

Well it's actually hard to help you since even we try it seems like rollbit is resisting any arguments.
They repeatedly said you "admitted to live in the UK" but when I asked you weeks ago about that you said that you never did.
Sure it should not matter for this case if you live there now when the actual gameplay was made somewhere else.

I do agree with rollbit about 1 thing though. It would appear strange if there is actually not 1 single LUX IP in your history. Maybe you are very strict about your habits and really only play with the phone provider IP but even I for example sometimes use the wifi in my gym or some hotel or whatever to check my account and claim some bonus or whatever, not necessarily for gaming.

You’re right about Rollbit resisting arguments. They are deflecting to IP.

Edit- OP has a LUX resident permit, rental agreement and bank statements. That’s all that needs to be said.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 828
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
July 09, 2024, 10:41:45 PM
#80
snip

Well it's actually hard to help you since even we try it seems like rollbit is resisting any arguments.
They repeatedly said you "admitted to live in the UK" but when I asked you weeks ago about that you said that you never did.
Sure it should not matter for this case if you live there now when the actual gameplay was made somewhere else.

I do agree with rollbit about 1 thing though. It would appear strange if there is actually not 1 single LUX IP in your history. Maybe you are very strict about your habits and really only play with the phone provider IP but even I for example sometimes use the wifi in my gym or some hotel or whatever to check my account and claim some bonus or whatever, not necessarily for gaming.
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1061
July 09, 2024, 08:08:55 PM
#79
The whole case comes down to your residence. Their talk about phone records and IP are just smoke and mirrors. Get as much proof as possible showing that you reside in LUX. Rollbit is not going to fold here, but this will help with arbitration elsewhere.
jr. member
Activity: 42
Merit: 10
July 09, 2024, 05:07:49 PM
#78
Hi everyone, Rollbit got back to me with the following email (see attached below), I am still drafting a response and will send a draft across here first, but I think their arguments/points in their email are deeply flawed, at least they have admitted the point on the mobile phone IP location.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/07/09/ocnWC.png

1. They suggest that the due to me living in the UK currently (I still have not moved and still reside in LUX), voids the fact that I lived in LUX when using the account. This argument does not hold up, as I have been residing in LUX throughout the time of opening and using my account, therefore it is irrelevant where my current location is (again, I am still in LUX).

2. They argue that it is "extremely unlikely" that I reside and live there given there have been no IP hits. This has been explained in length, but I only used my phone to connect to Rollbit and I always use my data as they are unlimited. I believe a KYC will help them place me in LUX for the time I have been using the account (and currently).

3. They ask why wouldnt I use my Wifi even at home, and the fact is that I always use the data on my phone given I dont have restrictions on usage.

Could you please help me on some proof or suggestions I could make to them so we can move the case forward?

Thank you very much
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1462
Yes, I'm an asshole
July 01, 2024, 04:12:01 AM
#77
The other case with 400 USD, if you read them thoroughly, it's the bonus that's voided, not user's own balance. Rollbit did not go away with their player's fund on that case. True that if the OP of that thread said the whole truth, that he didn't try to tamper with his exclusion due to his addiction [I believe we're very familiar with these situation], it would be rather cruel for Rollbit to dangle a bonus of 400 USD after 30 days of grace period, and retract it on the last day. The question is, can we really take the player's story for granted?

For your second paragraph, to be blunt, I'm not sure what's the point of your [what I can only consider as] rambling. you asked a question I've explained, then acknowledged yourself that the question has been answered [thus, rather useless], then you inquire about casino shouldn't make player guess? Guess what, exactly? Whether they're accessing from restricted teritory or not? They don't have to guess, they're most likely being listed on the casino's ToS, they only need to read that. And yes, there is nothing about where play[er] comes from, it's about residency and access point and compliance to the rule within that country, not about someone's nationality. So, can you perhaps rephrase to better convey your point?
  $400 in rewards were stolen. $64k is being stolen. Which rule in the ToS was broken by the player in this thread? We shouldn’t play lawyer for books.

If we take OP's narrative here as the working story and that he tell us the whole situation, nothing. There's nothing on the ToS that OP broke. And that's what we try to resolve here. We suggested OP to have video KYC suppose that option become available, we suggested OP to reach to his Spanish provider to get a written statement about his IP, and we suggested him to do the same with his UK provider to solidify his position.

I don't think anyone play as lawyer for rollbit here. You should have understand all of that if you read the thread carefully. Which post indicated and gave you impression that someone is playing lawyer for the book?
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1061
June 30, 2024, 03:40:28 PM
#76
Will winning players openly admit winning if playing from banned jurisdiction?

Never, but the player isn't putting the casino in a lose/lose situation. The casino is putting the player in a lose/lose situation. The balance of the scale is unfair.

Do you read the irony?

I can understand what you are saying but the casino is going to catch everyone that wins a substantial amount of money. The player will never be able to recoup losses. Also, the casino is stealing from innocent players caught in the net. unfortunately, this player has no chance even if innocent. Rollbit just got away with $400 in the other case, they aren't paying $64k.

If the rules say "resident", why does it matter where he played from? You answered above but we can't make the player guess as long as he abided by the ToS. There is nothing about where play comes from in the rules.

The other case with 400 USD, if you read them thoroughly, it's the bonus that's voided, not user's own balance. Rollbit did not go away with their player's fund on that case. True that if the OP of that thread said the whole truth, that he didn't try to tamper with his exclusion due to his addiction [I believe we're very familiar with these situation], it would be rather cruel for Rollbit to dangle a bonus of 400 USD after 30 days of grace period, and retract it on the last day. The question is, can we really take the player's story for granted?

For your second paragraph, to be blunt, I'm not sure what's the point of your [what I can only consider as] rambling. you asked a question I've explained, then acknowledged yourself that the question has been answered [thus, rather useless], then you inquire about casino shouldn't make player guess? Guess what, exactly? Whether they're accessing from restricted teritory or not? They don't have to guess, they're most likely being listed on the casino's ToS, they only need to read that. And yes, there is nothing about where play[er] comes from, it's about residency and access point and compliance to the rule within that country, not about someone's nationality. So, can you perhaps rephrase to better convey your point?
  $400 in rewards were stolen. $64k is being stolen. Which rule in the ToS was broken by the player in this thread? We shouldn’t play lawyer for books.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1462
Yes, I'm an asshole
June 30, 2024, 05:52:54 AM
#75
Will winning players openly admit winning if playing from banned jurisdiction?

Never, but the player isn't putting the casino in a lose/lose situation. The casino is putting the player in a lose/lose situation. The balance of the scale is unfair.

Do you read the irony?

I can understand what you are saying but the casino is going to catch everyone that wins a substantial amount of money. The player will never be able to recoup losses. Also, the casino is stealing from innocent players caught in the net. unfortunately, this player has no chance even if innocent. Rollbit just got away with $400 in the other case, they aren't paying $64k.

If the rules say "resident", why does it matter where he played from? You answered above but we can't make the player guess as long as he abided by the ToS. There is nothing about where play comes from in the rules.

The other case with 400 USD, if you read them thoroughly, it's the bonus that's voided, not user's own balance. Rollbit did not go away with their player's fund on that case. True that if the OP of that thread said the whole truth, that he didn't try to tamper with his exclusion due to his addiction [I believe we're very familiar with these situation], it would be rather cruel for Rollbit to dangle a bonus of 400 USD after 30 days of grace period, and retract it on the last day. The question is, can we really take the player's story for granted?

For your second paragraph, to be blunt, I'm not sure what's the point of your [what I can only consider as] rambling. you asked a question I've explained, then acknowledged yourself that the question has been answered [thus, rather useless], then you inquire about casino shouldn't make player guess? Guess what, exactly? Whether they're accessing from restricted teritory or not? They don't have to guess, they're most likely being listed on the casino's ToS, they only need to read that. And yes, there is nothing about where play[er] comes from, it's about residency and access point and compliance to the rule within that country, not about someone's nationality. So, can you perhaps rephrase to better convey your point?
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
June 30, 2024, 02:04:44 AM
#74
I mean he also said the he went (visited) London at some point, so that is also a possibility for the IPs. Problem is, if he played there it might not really violate the terms since the rules only say that people that reside somewhere are not allowed to play. Visiting is not residing, but who know.
I wouldn't count on that explanation working. If UK is a banned territory, you shouldn't play from there, whether you reside in it or just visiting. Think about people with dual citizenship. They would essentially have free pass to cheat. If the casino tells them UK players aren't allowed, they can always say, I am not from the UK, here are my documents that confirm I am from X country.

Last but not least, Razor said their should be a message he is not allowed to play, I just tried rollbit with a Spanish and a UK IP and there no no message, just saying.
How did you try it? Did you just visit the website or did you try to log in to your account?

Not sure why it's not working for you, but this message is what I see using a UK IP:
Also, if there is just a message what would stop a player??
A message is enough. If players decide to ignore it or circumvent it, they should face the consequences. Obviously, not being able to use the casino at all would be even better.

If a casino is going to use jurisdiction as a reason not to pay, can losing players recoup losses if playing from banned jurisdictions? I think whatever rules are enforced should be enforced both ways instead of putting the player in a lose/lose situation. Rollbit will accept losses from banned jurisdictions, they should pay out wins.
Don't you see how your proposal puts casinos in an always losing situation?

- I play from a restricted country, win, try to withdraw, and they pay me without noticing it.
- I play from a restricted country, win, try to withdraw, they realize I am in a banned territory and freeze my account. I then complain how they allowed me to play from a restricted country and get my deposits back.

Whatever happens, I don't lose my initial deposits and I stand to win if they don't notice me cheating. 
jr. member
Activity: 42
Merit: 10
June 29, 2024, 03:20:47 PM
#73
As Pmalek said, I think your email is already good enough, one thing that can make it better is if you can supplement it with similar explanation from your UK provider. Regarding whether you've ever playing from UK, it'll be harder to prove, and I think they have to accept it at face value. The other alternative will be to let them void all of the winnings happened when your IP shows as UK and let you keep the ones from ES/LUX.



[...] Problem is, if he played there it might not really violate the terms since the rules only say that people that reside somewhere are not allowed to play. Visiting is not residing, but who know.[...]

I might be wrong, but IIRC the rule to forbid users who resides in restricted country is to be compliant with the gambling regulation of that country, i.e. they forbid users from playing from UK not because they have something against UK, blacklisting UK, or something around that, it's rather because they don't have the permit [and legally compliant] to offer their service there, so they simply can't let people play on their platform from those territories.

Thus, even when someone visiting and not residing, or to put it in a more extreme, even if someone just get past the transit zone [IIRC, transit zone ara considered as a sterile area where you're technically yet to be in the country's soil] and the immigration post, they'll still be considered accessing from prohibited country.

[Disclaimer: I think... even if we access gambling platforms from the transit area of a prohibited territory, that we've not get past the immigration post, we'll still be considered as violating their term. Because eventhough we're yet to be technically on their soil, we still have already entered their jurisdiction].

Okay thank you both, I will try to get the same sort of email from the UK phone provider. For now I sent them the email as it was, will let you know what they reply.
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1061
June 29, 2024, 01:58:09 PM
#72
If a casino is going to use jurisdiction as a reason not to pay, can losing players recoup losses if playing from banned jurisdictions? I think whatever rules are enforced should be enforced both ways instead of putting the player in a lose/lose situation. Rollbit will accept losses from banned jurisdictions, they should pay out wins.

Will winning players openly admit winning if playing from banned jurisdiction?

Never, but the player isn't putting the casino in a lose/lose situation. The casino is putting the player in a lose/lose situation. The balance of the scale is unfair.

Do you read the irony?

I can understand what you are saying but the casino is going to catch everyone that wins a substantial amount of money. The player will never be able to recoup losses. Also, the casino is stealing from innocent players caught in the net. unfortunately, this player has no chance even if innocent. Rollbit just got away with $400 in the other case, they aren't paying $64k.

If the rules say "resident", why does it matter where he played from? You answered above but we can't make the player guess as long as he abided by the ToS. There is nothing about where play comes from in the rules.
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