I am talking to them to try to get an official communication. Will an email from them suffice do you think? In the meantime, they answered again on the matyer this morning on the chat (see below extract), I have asked them to provide the same by email.
" Hola, te atiende David, asesor de tu equipo Vodafone Empresa.
Cuando te encuentras en roaming (itinerancia) y te conectas a una red móvil con tu tarjeta SIM de la Unión Europea (UE) mientras viajas al extranjero dentro de la UE, tu dirección IP depende tanto del proveedor de origen como del proveedor de itinerancia. Sin embargo, en la mayoría de los casos dentro de la UE/EEE, el tráfico de red se encamina a través de tu proveedor de origen. A efectos de geolocalización, parecerá que estás en tu país de origen. Esto significa que, aunque estés en otro país, tu dirección IP se asignará desde tu país de origen.
Si deseas verificar la geolocalización de tu dirección IP actual, puedes utilizar herramientas en línea como “Cuál es mi IP” o “IP Location”. Simplemente ingresa tu dirección IP y podrás ver detalles como la latitud, longitud, ciudad, región y país asociados a ella.
En este canal solo le damos la información de la que disponemos, no podemos profundizar técnicamente en cómo funciona la IP en el extranjero, si quiere información más técnica puede contactar con soporte en el 22122 o en cualquier servicio especializado."
Topic: Account wiped with $64k on Rollbit.com - page 8. (Read 2449 times)
I don’t think it matters what the OP supplies at this point. No way Rollbit is shelling out $64k. The rest is just for show.
How exactly is what OP supplies doesn't matter at this point? If OP can prove --beyond reasonable doubt and all-- that he's the victim here and he did nothing wrong, either Rollbit can and should pay them or people should consider Rollbit as rather suspicious. This is how this board works: proof.
OP, I'll try to bring this matter once again to Razer, it'll be nice if you can provide us what AHOYBRAUSE asked. I'll ping Razer once you attach a screenshot [or a photo of that official letter] here.
I don’t think it matters what the OP supplies at this point. No way Rollbit is shelling out $64k. The rest is just for show.
Please see below screenshots of the communication with Vodafone (my phone supplier). It is in Spanish but they say that you are a sign a local IP (Spanish) when roaming data abroad. (see as well the copied text in Spanish)
"Hola, te atiende Mirelys, asesora de tu equipo Vodafone Empresa. Con respecto a tu consulta te informo, que cuando estás en roaming en la Unión Europea, se te asigna una dirección IP del país de origen. Ha sido un verdadero placer atenderte a través de nuestro canal. Si tienes alguna consulta más aquí nos tienes a tu entera disposición para ayudarte. Un saludo y esperamos que pases un magnifico día"
"Cuando estás en roaming en la Unión Europea (UE), se te asigna una dirección IP del país de origen, en este caso Española."
I also asked for an email to be sent to me to confirm this, but she said that it was not necessary (or that they ever to this). If needed, I could probably phone them up and get them to issue me an official statement?
"Hola, te atiende Mirelys, asesora de tu equipo Vodafone Empresa. Con respecto a tu consulta te informo, que cuando estás en roaming en la Unión Europea, se te asigna una dirección IP del país de origen. Ha sido un verdadero placer atenderte a través de nuestro canal. Si tienes alguna consulta más aquí nos tienes a tu entera disposición para ayudarte. Un saludo y esperamos que pases un magnifico día"
"Cuando estás en roaming en la Unión Europea (UE), se te asigna una dirección IP del país de origen, en este caso Española."
I also asked for an email to be sent to me to confirm this, but she said that it was not necessary (or that they ever to this). If needed, I could probably phone them up and get them to issue me an official statement?
I am afraid you need more than a screenshot of a chat to prove that. Better would be at least an email from their official support. Much better of course would a real letter, just tell them it's of high importance for you. Since you are a customer they really should do that and not just say "it was not necessary".
A chat can easily be faked and I already know rollbit would not be willing to accept a chat screenshot, trust me.
Please see below screenshots of the communication with Vodafone (my phone supplier). It is in Spanish but they say that you are a sign a local IP (Spanish) when roaming data abroad. (see as well the copied text in Spanish)
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/06/25/hfLxv.jpeg
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/06/25/hf4OI.jpeg
"Hola, te atiende Mirelys, asesora de tu equipo Vodafone Empresa. Con respecto a tu consulta te informo, que cuando estás en roaming en la Unión Europea, se te asigna una dirección IP del país de origen. Ha sido un verdadero placer atenderte a través de nuestro canal. Si tienes alguna consulta más aquí nos tienes a tu entera disposición para ayudarte. Un saludo y esperamos que pases un magnifico día"
"Cuando estás en roaming en la Unión Europea (UE), se te asigna una dirección IP del país de origen, en este caso Española."
I also asked for an email to be sent to me to confirm this, but she said that it was not necessary (or that they ever to this). If needed, I could probably phone them up and get them to issue me an official statement?
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/06/25/hfLxv.jpeg
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/06/25/hf4OI.jpeg
"Hola, te atiende Mirelys, asesora de tu equipo Vodafone Empresa. Con respecto a tu consulta te informo, que cuando estás en roaming en la Unión Europea, se te asigna una dirección IP del país de origen. Ha sido un verdadero placer atenderte a través de nuestro canal. Si tienes alguna consulta más aquí nos tienes a tu entera disposición para ayudarte. Un saludo y esperamos que pases un magnifico día"
"Cuando estás en roaming en la Unión Europea (UE), se te asigna una dirección IP del país de origen, en este caso Española."
I also asked for an email to be sent to me to confirm this, but she said that it was not necessary (or that they ever to this). If needed, I could probably phone them up and get them to issue me an official statement?
I think we can rely on Lens for the translation, it rarely let me down on translating screenshots that's written in other language when I try to understand the context of a case in the past, though what it gave are usually short sentences and I think I have yet to try to run it on long paragraphs.
If Lens failed to help us though, I believe I can ask one or two members who I trust and speaks Spanish to help us.
Lens should do it. I have used it in the past to translate product descriptions and recipes from packages in foreign languages. But to make things easier, @Petermario please post both the screenshot of your communication with your mobile data provider but also copy-paste the text here so we can take advantage of Google Translate as well. If Lens failed to help us though, I believe I can ask one or two members who I trust and speaks Spanish to help us.
[...]
@Petermario can we see the official reply you received from your Spanish data provider? It's probably going to be in Spanish and we might need the help of a trusted Spanish Bitcointalk user to help us out.
What remains problematic is you stating that you moved to the UK and that you reside there. It complicated an already complex case.
@Petermario can we see the official reply you received from your Spanish data provider? It's probably going to be in Spanish and we might need the help of a trusted Spanish Bitcointalk user to help us out.
What remains problematic is you stating that you moved to the UK and that you reside there. It complicated an already complex case.
I think we can rely on Lens for the translation, it rarely let me down on translating screenshots that's written in other language when I try to understand the context of a case in the past, though what it gave are usually short sentences and I think I have yet to try to run it on long paragraphs.
If Lens failed to help us though, I believe I can ask one or two members who I trust and speaks Spanish to help us.
I was pretty sure that your IP address would be the one assigned by the local network of the country you are accessing the internet from. Based on that, I thought Rollbit was right in what they stated here. Since I am not an expert, of course, and neither is GPT, I still decided to ask it.
The reply below is the information I received from the following prompt:
If I use a Spanish mobile data provider but use roaming in Luxembourg, what IP address will I have? Will it be an IP of my Spanish provider or a local IP in Luxembourg?
GPT response:
Judging by this information, Rollbit is wrong unless we are talking about "Localized Roaming."
@Petermario can we see the official reply you received from your Spanish data provider? It's probably going to be in Spanish and we might need the help of a trusted Spanish Bitcointalk user to help us out.
What remains problematic is you stating that you moved to the UK and that you reside there. It complicated an already complex case.
The reply below is the information I received from the following prompt:
If I use a Spanish mobile data provider but use roaming in Luxembourg, what IP address will I have? Will it be an IP of my Spanish provider or a local IP in Luxembourg?
GPT response:
Quote
When you use roaming in Luxembourg with a Spanish mobile data provider, the IP address you receive will generally be assigned by your Spanish provider, not a local IP address from Luxembourg. Here’s a breakdown of how this works:
1. Roaming and IP Address Assignment: When you roam internationally, your home provider (in this case, the Spanish mobile data provider) coordinates with a local network in the foreign country (Luxembourg). While you are physically using the network infrastructure in Luxembourg, your data sessions are typically routed back to your home provider's gateway.
2. Home Routing: In most cases, the IP address you get is assigned by your home provider's IP pool. This means that your IP address will appear as if you are in Spain, not Luxembourg. This process is known as "home routing".
3. Localized Roaming: Some providers may use a technique called "local breakout" where your data traffic is routed directly through the local network in Luxembourg. In such cases, you might receive an IP address from the local Luxembourg provider. However, this is less common and depends on agreements between your home provider and the local networks.
In summary, while roaming in Luxembourg with a Spanish mobile provider, you are most likely to have an IP address from your Spanish provider, making it appear as though you are accessing the internet from Spain.
1. Roaming and IP Address Assignment: When you roam internationally, your home provider (in this case, the Spanish mobile data provider) coordinates with a local network in the foreign country (Luxembourg). While you are physically using the network infrastructure in Luxembourg, your data sessions are typically routed back to your home provider's gateway.
2. Home Routing: In most cases, the IP address you get is assigned by your home provider's IP pool. This means that your IP address will appear as if you are in Spain, not Luxembourg. This process is known as "home routing".
3. Localized Roaming: Some providers may use a technique called "local breakout" where your data traffic is routed directly through the local network in Luxembourg. In such cases, you might receive an IP address from the local Luxembourg provider. However, this is less common and depends on agreements between your home provider and the local networks.
In summary, while roaming in Luxembourg with a Spanish mobile provider, you are most likely to have an IP address from your Spanish provider, making it appear as though you are accessing the internet from Spain.
Judging by this information, Rollbit is wrong unless we are talking about "Localized Roaming."
@Petermario can we see the official reply you received from your Spanish data provider? It's probably going to be in Spanish and we might need the help of a trusted Spanish Bitcointalk user to help us out.
What remains problematic is you stating that you moved to the UK and that you reside there. It complicated an already complex case.
AHOYBRAUSE gave a very nice option to provide an evidence here: proof of correspondencies with your mobile phone provider, explaining that your IP will remains show as Spain though you accessed them from LUX.
Far as I can gather, there is a small chance that your mobile data will still show you accessing from Spain, and under "roam like at home" EU policy, you can [to an extent] still use your old provider and charged the same rate. However, it is more likely that your IP address will show as the local area instead of keep showing Spain.
Also, roam like at home [at least as far as I interpret it] applies if you travel, i.e. you spend your time at short time across EU countries compared to the one where you originated from. If you stays for extended period in LUX, as how your narrative tell us so far, you'll be severely limited.
Far as I can gather, there is a small chance that your mobile data will still show you accessing from Spain, and under "roam like at home" EU policy, you can [to an extent] still use your old provider and charged the same rate. However, it is more likely that your IP address will show as the local area instead of keep showing Spain.
Also, roam like at home [at least as far as I interpret it] applies if you travel, i.e. you spend your time at short time across EU countries compared to the one where you originated from. If you stays for extended period in LUX, as how your narrative tell us so far, you'll be severely limited.
But wouldn't your IP show that you're in Luxembourg even if you're using a Spanish data provider? So I don't think that there's something more here than you let on. I think that you're going to need to contest this problem, contact the supports that they've got and provide the necessary evidence to make sure that you're not messing up big time on this one. $64k is no joke and it's not something that any casino should be able to wipe out that quick, that is still money after all.
You basically just repeated what I wrote before you.
@OP: Get the documentation from your internet provider. Rollbit can't just ignore that. They also can't ignore documented facts of you living in LUX.
Rules clearly state that you are not allowed if you reside in Spain or the UK, since you are registered in LUX (which you need to prove) you don't reside in the banned countries, worst case scenario you are visiting there, which is not in violation of any rules on the site.
It's also hilarious how Razer is coming here, making some bold statements without even acknowledging any possibilities ( KYC was offered and ignored by him ), just the same way this person always handles other cases. Terrible representation for a gambling site.
But wouldn't your IP show that you're in Luxembourg even if you're using a Spanish data provider? So I don't think that there's something more here than you let on. I think that you're going to need to contest this problem, contact the supports that they've got and provide the necessary evidence to make sure that you're not messing up big time on this one. $64k is no joke and it's not something that any casino should be able to wipe out that quick, that is still money after all.
I actually also thought about this roaming situation, meaning that even the provider is in country X but since you will use a local network the IP should change to a local one, not the for example Spanish one.
But yet, I am no specialist about that ( and neither is rollbit ) so we should't come to conclusions because of that. Maybe you can get a written statement from your provider, guess that would be sufficient proof.
Since you played and won in LUX (at least you say so) the moving to London situation is irrelevant. You say your bets came from being in LUX, moving to London bans you from future action on the site, but obviously not for past.
Number 5 is the most important one. They didn't have issues playing with them having loss (as usual), just when you are in profit they suddenly discover "1,872 unique IP addresses" . Sounds legit.
So their system didn't flag your account for unrestricted access for IP from:
"Spain: 1,420 (75.85%)
United Kingdom: 442 (23.61%)"
for such a long time while you were accumulating loss after loss, but now it does. Awesome detection system. Sounds very sus to me tbh.
I received an email from the compliance team at Rollbit and wanted to address it here, please see below the full email.
https://talkimg.com/images/2024/06/23/hNv2f.png
1. The point they make about the data roaming is untrue, as I have been investigating following my issue with Rollbit. I contacted my phone service provider and they confirm that when I use my phone data abroad (within Europe), my IP will show as Spain as they are the ones that are providing the service (I am not an expert so I am not able to explain how this works precisely.
2. I have never used a VPN to connect to the site, and it would be completely illogical for me to use one to connect from a restricted region.
3. I told the support team that I was residing in the UK as I wanted them to release my funds without having to KYC, I know it is a mistake on my part and I should have agreed to KYC straight away. I am in the process of moving to the UK for work reasons, but I am still living in Luxembourg to this date. I dont think the circumstances change nonetheless, as I was a Luxembourg resident when opening my account and throughout the whole period of using it. I then agreed to complete KYC once the support team communicated to me that they have completely wiped my account and would be keeping my $64k of winnings (I am finalising the visa process for the UK and will be moving there).
4. I have to inform myself more on the matter, but it is illegal to keep my funds on the claim that they "believe it is extremely unlikely" that I am a Luxembourg resident, when they wont even let me prove that I am.
5. I think it is completely illogical that a Casino can allow you to deposit and withdraw for 2 years without any issues (I deposited and withdrew around $60k), but once my balance turned positive, I am a danger to their Casino license? I have never been in breach of ToS and have never been made aware if I was. Rollbit claims that I should have received a pop-up notifying me that I was accessing from a restricted region, but I never received any such communication.
6. I am able to prove that throughout my time in the site I was residing in Luxembourg and that I currently still live there (although will be moving soon), and under no Terms and Conditions does it say that they reserve the right to keep your funds arbitrarily based on their opinion of something being "extremely unlikely". I believe Rollbit wants to now operate as a more reputable casino (seeking license in the UK?), but things like this bring their reputation to the ground.
7. I am not sure what my options are at this point, and would really appreciate your help/input
https://talkimg.com/images/2024/06/23/hNv2f.png
1. The point they make about the data roaming is untrue, as I have been investigating following my issue with Rollbit. I contacted my phone service provider and they confirm that when I use my phone data abroad (within Europe), my IP will show as Spain as they are the ones that are providing the service (I am not an expert so I am not able to explain how this works precisely.
2. I have never used a VPN to connect to the site, and it would be completely illogical for me to use one to connect from a restricted region.
3. I told the support team that I was residing in the UK as I wanted them to release my funds without having to KYC, I know it is a mistake on my part and I should have agreed to KYC straight away. I am in the process of moving to the UK for work reasons, but I am still living in Luxembourg to this date. I dont think the circumstances change nonetheless, as I was a Luxembourg resident when opening my account and throughout the whole period of using it. I then agreed to complete KYC once the support team communicated to me that they have completely wiped my account and would be keeping my $64k of winnings (I am finalising the visa process for the UK and will be moving there).
4. I have to inform myself more on the matter, but it is illegal to keep my funds on the claim that they "believe it is extremely unlikely" that I am a Luxembourg resident, when they wont even let me prove that I am.
5. I think it is completely illogical that a Casino can allow you to deposit and withdraw for 2 years without any issues (I deposited and withdrew around $60k), but once my balance turned positive, I am a danger to their Casino license? I have never been in breach of ToS and have never been made aware if I was. Rollbit claims that I should have received a pop-up notifying me that I was accessing from a restricted region, but I never received any such communication.
6. I am able to prove that throughout my time in the site I was residing in Luxembourg and that I currently still live there (although will be moving soon), and under no Terms and Conditions does it say that they reserve the right to keep your funds arbitrarily based on their opinion of something being "extremely unlikely". I believe Rollbit wants to now operate as a more reputable casino (seeking license in the UK?), but things like this bring their reputation to the ground.
7. I am not sure what my options are at this point, and would really appreciate your help/input
Kind of just wanted to provide my opinion having seen plenty of threads about crypto casinos for a while (yes newly created bitcointalk account)
- if the site's representative original response here was correct, and provided the login information for specific countries, i don't understand how this is not being looked at more by users responding, and disagreeing with the site.
- Also, in regards to a user submitting KYC now, the issue the site would potentially have then may be attempts to circumvent KYC or have a friend complete it even if its not the case for this user specifically that is the standard practice.
Obviously if OP is legitimate i wish them nothing but the best in terms of recovering their funds, but it seems strange for the site's representative to have provided % figures for login data and the OP still seems to be adament they are abiding by the TOS
- To my knowledge Most sites is not allowed to accept users who accessing it from a restricted region. Obviously the overule rule is 'reside in' however if the user has moved or may be moving regions, then the site still has a right to prevent their access to the site as it risks them losing their license if they knowingly allow restricted users to use it after becoming aware they may breach the TOS. .
- if the site's representative original response here was correct, and provided the login information for specific countries, i don't understand how this is not being looked at more by users responding, and disagreeing with the site.
- Also, in regards to a user submitting KYC now, the issue the site would potentially have then may be attempts to circumvent KYC or have a friend complete it even if its not the case for this user specifically that is the standard practice.
Obviously if OP is legitimate i wish them nothing but the best in terms of recovering their funds, but it seems strange for the site's representative to have provided % figures for login data and the OP still seems to be adament they are abiding by the TOS
- To my knowledge Most sites is not allowed to accept users who accessing it from a restricted region. Obviously the overule rule is 'reside in' however if the user has moved or may be moving regions, then the site still has a right to prevent their access to the site as it risks them losing their license if they knowingly allow restricted users to use it after becoming aware they may breach the TOS. .
Not sure why you deleted your post, but to answer your question about an attempt to circumvent KYC by having a friend to complete them, you can rest assured that casinos aren't born yesterday, they have ways to validate whether the user in front of them during the video call is indeed the player or someone else posing as them. It's proven on a past case. So, if Rollbit agrees to a video verification to settle this matter, that would be a quite insignificant issue.
Kind of just wanted to provide my opinion having seen plenty of threads about crypto casinos for a while (yes newly created bitcointalk account)
- if the site's representative original response here was correct, and provided the login information for specific countries, i don't understand how this is not being looked at more by users responding, and disagreeing with the site.
- Also, in regards to a user submitting KYC now, the issue the site would potentially have then may be attempts to circumvent KYC or have a friend complete it even if its not the case for this user specifically that is the standard practice.
Obviously if OP is legitimate i wish them nothing but the best in terms of recovering their funds, but it seems strange for the site's representative to have provided % figures for login data and the OP still seems to be adament they are abiding by the TOS
- To my knowledge Most sites is not allowed to accept users who accessing it from a restricted region. Obviously the overule rule is 'reside in' however if the user has moved or may be moving regions, then the site still has a right to prevent their access to the site as it risks them losing their license if they knowingly allow restricted users to use it after becoming aware they may breach the TOS. .
- if the site's representative original response here was correct, and provided the login information for specific countries, i don't understand how this is not being looked at more by users responding, and disagreeing with the site.
- Also, in regards to a user submitting KYC now, the issue the site would potentially have then may be attempts to circumvent KYC or have a friend complete it even if its not the case for this user specifically that is the standard practice.
Obviously if OP is legitimate i wish them nothing but the best in terms of recovering their funds, but it seems strange for the site's representative to have provided % figures for login data and the OP still seems to be adament they are abiding by the TOS
- To my knowledge Most sites is not allowed to accept users who accessing it from a restricted region. Obviously the overule rule is 'reside in' however if the user has moved or may be moving regions, then the site still has a right to prevent their access to the site as it risks them losing their license if they knowingly allow restricted users to use it after becoming aware they may breach the TOS. .
Yeah right, you just registered to post here, makes perfect "sense". Didn't know we are in the shilling business now.
Why even bother making this post.
There are legitimate questions being asked before but yet the rollbit rep doesn't bother to follow up to his yet another useless reply. "refunded the deposit" -> nothing arrived. Outlandish claims -> nothing to back it back and doesn't even bother to offer KYC.
Depositing and playing was no problem with endless "banned IPs" but now that the player won something there is a problem. Shady as always, nothing new from rollbit.
This is a classic case of casino using tricks to confisticate fair winnings. OP does not reside in unrestricted country and he is willing to go through KYC, that alone shows OP''s honesty while casino's miles away. From what I seen so far OP did not abuse any bonus or gained any edge so;
Stop this 'Crypto Gambling Wild West Shit Show' (coined by efialtis) and pay the man his money.
Stop this 'Crypto Gambling Wild West Shit Show' (coined by efialtis) and pay the man his money.
I know that Rollbit said that they goe block but why aren't they banning VPN use?
If you can be sure whether you never accessed Rollbit from when you're staying in the UK during your work-related visits, that'll be very neat. UK is also one of the restricted territories for Rollbit... though I guess there is no sure way to prove that you never accessed from UK, be it from rollbit's side of from yours.
I am certain I never played on the site while in the UK, but as you say I am not sure how I could prove this.
However, don´t you think that proving that I am a LUX resident (and full time employee there) will solve the case here? I understand their argument for keeping the funds is that I knowingly was in breach of ToS, which is completely untrue.
I do think that it'll be fair if they allows for an enhanced KYC to confirm your current residency, especially as you've given your consent to undergo it. Hence my previous posts regarding the matter.
Razer was online a few days after he made his explanation, but perhaps that was for a fleeting moment and he can't address your issue yet. I'll try to reach him again after a couple of days if the silence remains.
OP, to clarify one thing that I forgot to made a follow up yesterday when inquiring about UK IP address. As you explained that you have to have UK number because you work there often, did you ever play when you're in UK soil?
I dont think I ever did, I frequently left the UK SIM active accidentally when travelling back to LUX (maybe for 1-2 days at a time without noticing) - as the data is also usable without extra charge throughout Europe (although it is more expensive than the Spanish one).
If you can be sure whether you never accessed Rollbit from when you're staying in the UK during your work-related visits, that'll be very neat. UK is also one of the restricted territories for Rollbit... though I guess there is no sure way to prove that you never accessed from UK, be it from rollbit's side of from yours.
I am certain I never played on the site while in the UK, but as you say I am not sure how I could prove this.
However, don´t you think that proving that I am a LUX resident (and full time employee there) will solve the case here? I understand their argument for keeping the funds is that I knowingly was in breach of ToS, which is completely untrue.
OP, to clarify one thing that I forgot to made a follow up yesterday when inquiring about UK IP address. As you explained that you have to have UK number because you work there often, did you ever play when you're in UK soil?
I dont think I ever did, I frequently left the UK SIM active accidentally when travelling back to LUX (maybe for 1-2 days at a time without noticing) - as the data is also usable without extra charge throughout Europe (although it is more expensive than the Spanish one).
If you can be sure whether you never accessed Rollbit from when you're staying in the UK during your work-related visits, that'll be very neat. UK is also one of the restricted territories for Rollbit... though I guess there is no sure way to prove that you never accessed from UK, be it from rollbit's side of from yours.
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