Already delays in BFL shipment plans? - page 41.

niko

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Quote from: ChipGeek on October 26, 2012, 09:13:33 AM

Before I blow a gasket from reading the ~~FUCKING STUPIDITY~~ ignorance on this thread, let me set something straight:

1) A "fab house" or "fab" does NOT assemble boards. They make chips. That's it. A "lot" or batch of chips takes somewhere between 4 and 10 weeks depending on the "process" (130nm, 65nm, 22nm, etc.) and how much the customer is willing to spend. According to Josh, they have paid the maximum for their fab to get them out ASAP. IF they are in 65nm process, I think this should be roughly 6 to 8 weeks - depending on which fab they are using.

2) Chips and other components are soldered onto boards at an "assembly house".

3) After BFL gets the "assembled" boards from the external assembly house (or done in-house in the near future), then they finish putting it together with heatsink and metal box then ship it out.

So go back and read the posts in this thread with the above in mind.

Disclaimer:
I have ordered a BFL SC Single.
I have ordered a 54Gh/s bASIC.
(I bought a ticket for each of the horses to win. Grin

)

You forgot 4) use the rig you paid for to mine a little bit, on the main net, under pretense of testing.

AndrewBUD

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a lot of people will be SOL if that's the case.

They're assuming that everything is going to work out perfectly.

Aseras

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The sad thing is, BFL's eggs are all in one basket. They are counting in just in time manufacturing. One hiccup, one parts vendor shortage or significant delay or a chip respin because it was rushed and they are SOL.

scrybe

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Quote from: PuertoLibre on October 26, 2012, 09:21:43 AM

... I worked in construction where the term fabrication means something different than the semiconductor industry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefabrication

Other than that, no harm intended.

Yep, Fab work happens at the smallest level, putting the complexities for the product into a pre-packaged little box with wires (or balls) on it. Think of it like roof trusses, wall panels, or shipping containers that can be either custom fabricated, or acquired in bulk to spec. Take some of these onsite (your house) with some other bits and a soldering iron, and BAM, you get to assemble your own miner. Or in my case cook half your ASIC chips trying...

Going all the way up to a pre-fab mobile-home is what you get once you include the assembly house in this analogy, where the boxes and ducts and such are put together offsite. Then in our case the local dealer who designed the whole darn thing gets to put their custom paint job and fixtures in and ship them out.

Luckily Mini-Rig SC units don't need a "Wide Load" sign, so the scale of shipping can be international without to much extra cost.

Honestly I think they are at least able to put the ASIC's on at the BFL facility and have at least some pre-fab boards with most everything else on them. It's just a hunch, but the way they have been talking about "working hard to convert Jalepeno's into Little SC's" was interesting to me. At least some level of re-work seems to be happening at a minimum.

Bogart

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Quote from: ChipGeek on October 26, 2012, 09:13:33 AM

Before I blow a gasket from reading the ~~FUCKING STUPIDITY~~ ignorance on this thread, let me set something straight:

1) A "fab house" or "fab" does NOT assemble boards. They make chips. That's it. A "lot" or batch of chips takes somewhere between 4 and 10 weeks depending on the "process" (130nm, 65nm, 22nm, etc.) and how much the customer is willing to spend. According to Josh, they have paid the maximum for their fab to get them out ASAP. IF they are in 65nm process, I think this should be roughly 6 to 8 weeks - depending on which fab they are using.

2) Chips and other components are soldered onto boards at an "assembly house".

3) After BFL gets the "assembled" boards from the external assembly house (or done in-house in the near future), then they finish putting it together with heatsink and metal box then ship it out.

I understand that these other components will not be supplied by the assembly house, but will need to be sourced by BFL and shipped to the assembly huose for use. Does that sound likely to be correct?

Quote from: BFL_Josh

The ASICs are similar in so far as they also have nearly 350 components on each board. With the FPGAs, we sourced parts in the hundreds or low thousands at a time. For some of the ASIC parts, we are sourcing hundreds of thousands at a time which requires direct ordering & lead time dependancy from the respective manufacturers. However, for this first batch, we're mostly able to depend on available distribution stock from places like Mouser and DigiKey.

Source: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/104-Shipping-in-2-3-weeks?p=1461&viewfull=1#post1461

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: ChipGeek on October 26, 2012, 09:13:33 AM

Before I blow a gasket from reading the ~~FUCKING STUPIDITY~~ ignorance on this thread, let me set something straight:

1) A "fab house" or "fab" does NOT assemble boards. They make chips. That's it. A "lot" or batch of chips takes somewhere between 4 and 10 weeks depending on the "process" (130nm, 65nm, 22nm, etc.) and how much the customer is willing to spend. According to Josh, they have paid the maximum for their fab to get them out ASAP. IF they are in 65nm process, I think this should be roughly 6 to 8 weeks - depending on which fab they are using.

2) Chips and other components are soldered onto boards at an "assembly house".

3) After BFL gets the "assembled" boards from the external assembly house (or done in-house in the near future), then they finish putting it together with heatsink and metal box then ship it out.

So go back and read the posts in this thread with the above in mind.

Disclaimer:
I have ordered a BFL SC Single.
I have ordered a 54Gh/s bASIC.
(I bought a ticket for each of the horses to win. Grin

)

I believe you blew a gasket over a single term. I worked in construction where the term fabrication means something different than the semiconductor industry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefabrication

Other than that, no harm intended.

ChipGeek

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Before I blow a gasket from reading the ~~FUCKING STUPIDITY~~ ignorance on this thread, let me set something straight:

1) A "fab house" or "fab" does NOT assemble boards. They make chips. That's it. A "lot" or batch of chips takes somewhere between 4 and 10 weeks depending on the "process" (130nm, 65nm, 22nm, etc.) and how much the customer is willing to spend. According to Josh, they have paid the maximum for their fab to get them out ASAP. IF they are in 65nm process, I think this should be roughly 6 to 8 weeks - depending on which fab they are using.

2) Chips and other components are soldered onto boards at an "assembly house".

3) After BFL gets the "assembled" boards from the external assembly house (or done in-house in the near future), then they finish putting it together with heatsink and metal box then ship it out.

So go back and read the posts in this thread with the above in mind.

Disclaimer:
I have ordered a BFL SC Single.
I have ordered a 54Gh/s bASIC.
(I bought a ticket for each of the horses to win. Grin

)

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 26, 2012, 08:41:55 AM

Quote from: PuertoLibre on October 26, 2012, 08:24:17 AM

They risk spontaneous combustion of pre-orders and customers when/if they switch to another company that will potentially ship earlier than them.

Weren't most preorders paid by bitcoin or bank wire? Good luck getting a refund on those. Especially if you are right and BFL couldn't afford to refund a significant portion of them.

There is an old saying that the biggest beast eats the most.

In this case, having 20+ employees, "bullet runs" etc; costs quite a bit of money per week.

Edit: I know I am being over dramatic, but hopefully they are financing the operation with Business credit lines rather than pre-orders. Though all logic says that wouldn't be the case.

AmDD

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Quote from: Morblias on October 26, 2012, 08:31:59 AM

The longer ASICs take to ship, the longer my GPUs run. Win/Win situation.

Agreed, as much as i would like to get my ASIC, the sooner I get it the sooner my GPUs will be shutdown...

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Morblias on October 26, 2012, 08:31:59 AM

The longer ASICs take to ship, the longer my GPUs run. Win/Win situation.

Yeah by GPU array is like a cancer patient that knows he is going to die but getting a couple more months can only been seen as a good thing.

creativex

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Despite the widespread perception that they'd be first to market I chose to order elsewhere because of BFL's history of deceitful shipping date shell games. Also despite assurances that they'd do better this time, it feels like a bunch of song and dance. I can't see myself doing business with them going forward.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: PuertoLibre on October 26, 2012, 08:24:17 AM

They risk spontaneous combustion of pre-orders and customers when/if they switch to another company that will potentially ship earlier than them.

Weren't most preorders paid by bitcoin or bank wire? Good luck getting a refund on those. Especially if you are right and BFL couldn't afford to refund a significant portion of them.

Morblias

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The longer ASICs take to ship, the longer my GPUs run. Win/Win situation.

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 26, 2012, 08:13:21 AM

Guys. Why are you surprised? BFL "ship date" for FPGA Single was Oct 2011 the first boards went out in March and really didn't hit volume production until April or May. It was summer before the shipping delays were less than 2 months.

That was with off the shelf FPGA. People pre-ordered with 100% funds paid in advance. BFL risks nothing by having delays.

WHY would you expect it to be different? Based on the FPGA launch I would say add six months to the promised date and if they beat that deadline (Oct 2012 = April 2013) then consider it "early".

They risk spontaneous combustion of pre-orders and customers when/if they switch to another company that will potentially ship earlier than them.

for their customers it is either sit and wait while everyone else mines, or cancel and re-order somewhere else that is shipping then and now. (Which would cause BFL to implode...so don't do it!)

The only weak spot in Toms business is that he doesn't have enough helpers (hes still hiring IT temp workers) to put his boards into "ready to ship condition". BFL supposedly has plenty of workers...just bad mojo or planning. Whichever may be the case.

Edit: All we need now is for Tom to bump up to 66Gh/s and leave BFL behind.

AndrewBUD

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^ That's what I think is going to happen... Or even later....

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Guys. Why are you surprised? BFL "ship date" for FPGA Single was Oct 2011 the first boards went out in March and really didn't hit volume production until April or May. It was summer before the shipping delays were less than 2 months.

That was with off the shelf FPGA. People pre-ordered with 100% funds paid in advance. BFL risks nothing by having delays.

WHY would you expect it to be different? Based on the FPGA launch I would say add six months to the promised date and if they beat that deadline (Oct 2012 = April 2013) then consider it "early".

abeaulieu

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Quote from: mezzomix on October 26, 2012, 04:48:34 AM

If the ASICs are in fab run right now, don't expect any BFL ASIC products in 2012. Let's hope that Tom will be able to get working ASIC devices in time. Otherwise the Avalon customers might be the lucky ones.

I don't know why you think there would be that much latency once the ASICs are fabbed. Hopefully fab will be finished, do some verification, then they can just plop them onto boards and ship.

mezzomix

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If the ASICs are in fab run right now, don't expect any BFL ASIC products in 2012. Let's hope that Tom will be able to get working ASIC devices in time. Otherwise the Avalon customers might be the lucky ones.

Jack1Rip1BurnIt

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Trust me, these default swaps will limit the risks

Quote from: creativex on October 26, 2012, 02:33:32 AM

You fellers are bringin' the perty music to my ears. Grin

If BFL is that late and bASIC units ship on schedule, then their owners will have paid off units in weeks.

I'm am happy about this as I doubled down on bASIC compared to BFL. I have faith in you Tom and "may the force be with you".

Jack1Rip1BurnIt

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Trust me, these default swaps will limit the risks

This should come to no surprise to anyone at all who is familiar with BFL's delivery process. The only thing that will be different from the past year of delayed FPGA shipments is the fact that we will be "updated" pretty regularly that we ain't gonna get shit for a little bit "but it shouldn't be much longer". BFL will not be the first to deliver. The End Tongue

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