Topic: AMT fucks us over again - page 32. (Read 44813 times)
this days you can trust nobody.
You have 800 posts, and glancing through the pages I've never seen one that wasn't AMT related. Quit playin son.
Opieum came on this board right when AMT started getting really screwed with late orders and lies, has ONLY posted about AMT ever. Seriously. He only talks AMT. He only posts in AMT threads. That alone is fairly obvious proof that he either works for them, or has dedicated his miserable life to trying to get something for the only $10k he has ever seen. Now they are letting him earn more miners by defending them here.
I'm not the only one who sees this, I get PMs. Opieum, you are a huge fraud.
I'm not the only one who sees this, I get PMs. Opieum, you are a huge fraud.
Odd, how Opieum's first post is similar to what he posts today. Even odder is that when I spoke with Josh in front of his old office in Haverford back in March, he was so adamant on the very same issues, i.e. the paid shills on this forum fucking with his brand. In fact, he wanted to pay me to ferret out said shills along with manning his forum for a $1K a month of which I agreed to to him in person, but never seriously considering doing, for that would cause more people to lose more money, on top of the millions already gone, thus continuing my campaign against AMT at the very first opportunity the very next day.
Quote
Thought I would reply to this. I really see no point as you see I am a shill but I will reply anyway and leave it at this post. I had to create a new account my other one for whatever reason is borked (opieum). But here goes. No I don't work for AMT I have no connection to them other than I am order 1463 in their system. I did my homework on them however before going into this. I have my own resources. For the "super-slueths" on here who think its a scam you overlooked something. If you are in the US and have EVER started a corporation you would know that for the tax benefits you start a corporation in Delaware as its a legit way of doing things. Must transnational corporations are lsited there. . They are not listed in PA because they are not registered there. I did my own digging and found this before I went in to buy my miner. I have started 3 companies of my own in the past. 2 of those were done in Delaware since the first one I was young and didn't know any better and I didn't have the financial partner to point that fact out to me at the time.
File Number: 5341525 Incorporation Date / Formation Date: 05/29/2013
(mm/dd/yyyy)
Entity Name: ADVANCED MINING TECHNOLOGIES INC
Entity Kind: CORPORATION Entity Type: GENERAL
Residency: DOMESTIC State: DE
REGISTERED AGENT INFORMATION
Name: BUSINESS FILINGS INCORPORATED
Address: 108 WEST 13TH ST
City: WILMINGTON County: NEW CASTLE
State: DE Postal Code: 19801
Phone: (800)981-7183
Oh and as a test and validation of what I said about corporations listings there search for google on https://delecorp.delaware.gov/tin/controller most of google and its subsidiaries are listed in delaware.
Now its easy enough to talk alot of crap. But at least get your facts straight about a company before smearing them seeing as in the US they can come at you for libel (and legally win see some cases with Yelp if you dont believe me). Again I am NOT an AMT employee but I am a customer. I see alot of people on here flaming and trolling without any real substance to back it up. I almost started to believe the so called "facts" until I started doing my own digging. They are a registered corporation that was enough for me. It means they have a legitimate presence in the US.
Are they late on their promised shipments? Yes shit happens especially in the tech world. They are dependent on their suppliers, or its an internal issue I don't know. I just know that as far as I am concerned my order is still coming. I am currently dealing with the same shit with BFL also (admittedly I am far less happy with them because of what I paid AND the massive delay there). Because of the preorder nature of this its par for the course. Sad that we have to deal with that but at least AMT has a guarantee in place vs BFL which is one of the reasons I chose them. That and they are local to me (I am in NY state), I have to deal with the late stuff. As long as I get what I ordered I will manage to make it work. Thats the nature of things at times.
Are they poor with the communications? That depends if it means replying to trolls and flamers in this thread it makes no sense why they would waste time on doing that. As a business owner myself I wouldn't waste my time responding to what appears to be a bunch of people who are threatning lawsuits and calling them a scam. I would be distancing myself from that to avoid ANY of that crap. @clenell you got called out a few pages ago for not even paying on time. You were pestering them and they even told you they didn't want your business because they knew you were an inexperienced miner based on the conversations you had. Based on what I have read its clear you have no sense at all of how this all works and dealing with a new market so I will hazard a guess that the conversations really happened. All I know is you haven't really denied that even happened so its pretty clear to me they got you dead to rights.
Are they the cheapest per GHs? Not really. BUT while as important as that is to me, I feel better knowing they are local and I can go pick up the miners and drop them in my colo whenever I want. This is an important advantage to me. And I am willing to pay for that. If they deliver on time...or even a week late I will be perfectly ok with that. Shit happens and with the recent north east snowstorms I can see how delays could have hit them.
The only people who at this point have a legitimate right to bitch and moan are paying customers like myself who have yet to receive their miners. And well my order isn't late yet, as its clearly stated March 31st or before on their site (and according to their timeline I would be expecting something mid march as they promised). I will join the growing masses of people complaining if I have no miners by March 31st. But until then AMT has been nothing but communicative with me and providing updates as they can. I haven't had to wait long either I get replies within a couple of hours by email and 2 out of the 3 times I called I got Jim on the line. I send a well written and POLITE email not accusing them of being scammers. It gets simple pleasant results. I don't need to threaten with lawyers and all that dumb shit. All it does is put people on defensive. Why would they want to answer someone who just threatened them with legal action?
Too many people here are having knee jerk reactions. We already know they are sending machines out. There is another thread that shows some people have gotten their orders or they have been shipped. People have them its already been proven. Doubt they are a scam. Now again how they conduct buisness is another story. BUT they have ZERO obligation to really interact with people on here seeing the flak they are getting. Why would they go out of their way to feed the trolls and flamers? (>dons firemans suit<)
All I have seen from sirminesalot and clenell are insults. Nothing of real substance. You have contributed NOTHING of value but toxic attitudes that benefit noone. If anything my thought is more along the lines that you might also be shills for their competition. Since you are quick to accuse others of being shills for AMT if they have ANYTHING favorable to say the same could be said of you in reverse. Who do YOU work for? You would nt be the first misinformation and FUD PR people to do this crap. Microsoft is an OLD hat at it. They hired companies for that to bash Linux for the longest time. This is apparent for anyone familiar with the tactics. Am I coming to AMT's defense? partially. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point. They have not ignored me. They have not given me any reason to distrust them. IMO they at least deserve a shot. All I know is for every order canceled it just means i will get my order that much faster. AND it just means I get the early shot at the hashing power while the haters hate and find more delays with other mining hardware elsewhere.
But because of this thread its got me thinking on one thing. I do agree there is a problem with companies in general. Time in the case of bitcoin is literally money. The longer we wait the harder it gets to mine and all that. I have a potential solution for the delay problems with the various manufacturers. I wont say anything more as I have no interest in playing my hand too early. Once I am ready I will formally announce it in a new thread. But I am providing a potential solution to a problem not creating more problems with useless commentary.
File Number: 5341525 Incorporation Date / Formation Date: 05/29/2013
(mm/dd/yyyy)
Entity Name: ADVANCED MINING TECHNOLOGIES INC
Entity Kind: CORPORATION Entity Type: GENERAL
Residency: DOMESTIC State: DE
REGISTERED AGENT INFORMATION
Name: BUSINESS FILINGS INCORPORATED
Address: 108 WEST 13TH ST
City: WILMINGTON County: NEW CASTLE
State: DE Postal Code: 19801
Phone: (800)981-7183
Oh and as a test and validation of what I said about corporations listings there search for google on https://delecorp.delaware.gov/tin/controller most of google and its subsidiaries are listed in delaware.
Now its easy enough to talk alot of crap. But at least get your facts straight about a company before smearing them seeing as in the US they can come at you for libel (and legally win see some cases with Yelp if you dont believe me). Again I am NOT an AMT employee but I am a customer. I see alot of people on here flaming and trolling without any real substance to back it up. I almost started to believe the so called "facts" until I started doing my own digging. They are a registered corporation that was enough for me. It means they have a legitimate presence in the US.
Are they late on their promised shipments? Yes shit happens especially in the tech world. They are dependent on their suppliers, or its an internal issue I don't know. I just know that as far as I am concerned my order is still coming. I am currently dealing with the same shit with BFL also (admittedly I am far less happy with them because of what I paid AND the massive delay there). Because of the preorder nature of this its par for the course. Sad that we have to deal with that but at least AMT has a guarantee in place vs BFL which is one of the reasons I chose them. That and they are local to me (I am in NY state), I have to deal with the late stuff. As long as I get what I ordered I will manage to make it work. Thats the nature of things at times.
Are they poor with the communications? That depends if it means replying to trolls and flamers in this thread it makes no sense why they would waste time on doing that. As a business owner myself I wouldn't waste my time responding to what appears to be a bunch of people who are threatning lawsuits and calling them a scam. I would be distancing myself from that to avoid ANY of that crap. @clenell you got called out a few pages ago for not even paying on time. You were pestering them and they even told you they didn't want your business because they knew you were an inexperienced miner based on the conversations you had. Based on what I have read its clear you have no sense at all of how this all works and dealing with a new market so I will hazard a guess that the conversations really happened. All I know is you haven't really denied that even happened so its pretty clear to me they got you dead to rights.
Are they the cheapest per GHs? Not really. BUT while as important as that is to me, I feel better knowing they are local and I can go pick up the miners and drop them in my colo whenever I want. This is an important advantage to me. And I am willing to pay for that. If they deliver on time...or even a week late I will be perfectly ok with that. Shit happens and with the recent north east snowstorms I can see how delays could have hit them.
The only people who at this point have a legitimate right to bitch and moan are paying customers like myself who have yet to receive their miners. And well my order isn't late yet, as its clearly stated March 31st or before on their site (and according to their timeline I would be expecting something mid march as they promised). I will join the growing masses of people complaining if I have no miners by March 31st. But until then AMT has been nothing but communicative with me and providing updates as they can. I haven't had to wait long either I get replies within a couple of hours by email and 2 out of the 3 times I called I got Jim on the line. I send a well written and POLITE email not accusing them of being scammers. It gets simple pleasant results. I don't need to threaten with lawyers and all that dumb shit. All it does is put people on defensive. Why would they want to answer someone who just threatened them with legal action?
Too many people here are having knee jerk reactions. We already know they are sending machines out. There is another thread that shows some people have gotten their orders or they have been shipped. People have them its already been proven. Doubt they are a scam. Now again how they conduct buisness is another story. BUT they have ZERO obligation to really interact with people on here seeing the flak they are getting. Why would they go out of their way to feed the trolls and flamers? (>dons firemans suit<)
All I have seen from sirminesalot and clenell are insults. Nothing of real substance. You have contributed NOTHING of value but toxic attitudes that benefit noone. If anything my thought is more along the lines that you might also be shills for their competition. Since you are quick to accuse others of being shills for AMT if they have ANYTHING favorable to say the same could be said of you in reverse. Who do YOU work for? You would nt be the first misinformation and FUD PR people to do this crap. Microsoft is an OLD hat at it. They hired companies for that to bash Linux for the longest time. This is apparent for anyone familiar with the tactics. Am I coming to AMT's defense? partially. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point. They have not ignored me. They have not given me any reason to distrust them. IMO they at least deserve a shot. All I know is for every order canceled it just means i will get my order that much faster. AND it just means I get the early shot at the hashing power while the haters hate and find more delays with other mining hardware elsewhere.
But because of this thread its got me thinking on one thing. I do agree there is a problem with companies in general. Time in the case of bitcoin is literally money. The longer we wait the harder it gets to mine and all that. I have a potential solution for the delay problems with the various manufacturers. I wont say anything more as I have no interest in playing my hand too early. Once I am ready I will formally announce it in a new thread. But I am providing a potential solution to a problem not creating more problems with useless commentary.
Oh while we are on it might want to explain this Phinn
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bfl-phinneas-gauge-293854
This was last Sept year.
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.org%2Fxs0lg473n%2Fimage.jpg&t=540&c=Vg074cMRzvkLyA
Phin is the dude on the upper right.
Where are you on BFL these days. They are taking a tremendous amount of heat from legit customers....but nowhere to be found there. Again this was one of the things that made me wonder......
I am guessing you tooka nice paycheck to stop...gives you more time to bash on AMT and any potential competitors keeping BFL and their advertising business going (google adsense/adwords is very profitable with the right SEO and they have that in spades and buried most of their US competition)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bfl-phinneas-gauge-293854
This was last Sept year.
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.org%2Fxs0lg473n%2Fimage.jpg&t=540&c=Vg074cMRzvkLyA
Phin is the dude on the upper right.
Where are you on BFL these days. They are taking a tremendous amount of heat from legit customers....but nowhere to be found there. Again this was one of the things that made me wonder......
I am guessing you tooka nice paycheck to stop...gives you more time to bash on AMT and any potential competitors keeping BFL and their advertising business going (google adsense/adwords is very profitable with the right SEO and they have that in spades and buried most of their US competition)
Double the pleasure, double the fun, for shits and giggles I bumped linked thread, blah, blah, blah, rhymes with phunn.
Again, no nice paycheck to cease posting on a regular basis. In all fairness, I kinda ran outta ammo, having uncovered and posted more stuff about most the principals of BFL than all others combined, some of which was used in a court of law earlier this year.
Now, I've been busy exposing Sunlot, et al. to further protect your bitcoin position, regardless of how much others desire to stick it up my ass.
And, I won't consider stop digging into anything evil pertaining to Bitcoin until davout, staff on this forum, returns to me the 1,132 BTC he stole from me via the InsataWallet "hack" that occurred last year before your time, now residing in one of his fat-ass bitcoin wallets.
Quick aside: Here's a pic of Satoshi Nakamoto is front of an Opium field (yes, it really is, even stated as such by Dorian himself):
Opieum came on this board right when AMT started getting really screwed with late orders and lies, has ONLY posted about AMT ever. Seriously. He only talks AMT. He only posts in AMT threads. That alone is fairly obvious proof that he either works for them, or has dedicated his miserable life to trying to get something for the only $10k he has ever seen. Now they are letting him earn more miners by defending them here.
I'm not the only one who sees this, I get PMs. Opieum, you are a huge fraud.
I'm not the only one who sees this, I get PMs. Opieum, you are a huge fraud.
"Give me your order #" 
Then they can pull a BFL_Josh & dox ya & MAYBE force a refund on ya...........wait that may work to ya'lls advantage!!!!!!!! 
Then they can pull a BFL_Josh & dox ya & MAYBE force a refund on ya...........wait that may work to ya'lls advantage!!!!!!!!
I posted my order number at some point, and deleted it, because those fucks were posting customer names in the threads. You have no authority, you don't get to say if people can post about this scam or not. You're just some idiot trying to get yours, before others ever get theirs.
Keep posting shill boy. You came in sucking on their nuts, and you are going out sucking on them again.
Oh while we are on it might want to explain this Phinn
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bfl-phinneas-gauge-293854
This was last Sept year.
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.org%2Fxs0lg473n%2Fimage.jpg&t=540&c=Vg074cMRzvkLyA
Phin is the dude on the upper right.
Where are you on BFL these days. They are taking a tremendous amount of heat from legit customers....but nowhere to be found there. Again this was one of the things that made me wonder......
I am guessing you tooka nice paycheck to stop...gives you more time to bash on AMT and any potential competitors keeping BFL and their advertising business going (google adsense/adwords is very profitable with the right SEO and they have that in spades and buried most of their US competition)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bfl-phinneas-gauge-293854
This was last Sept year.
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.org%2Fxs0lg473n%2Fimage.jpg&t=540&c=Vg074cMRzvkLyA
Phin is the dude on the upper right.
Where are you on BFL these days. They are taking a tremendous amount of heat from legit customers....but nowhere to be found there. Again this was one of the things that made me wonder......
I am guessing you tooka nice paycheck to stop...gives you more time to bash on AMT and any potential competitors keeping BFL and their advertising business going (google adsense/adwords is very profitable with the right SEO and they have that in spades and buried most of their US competition)
Curious RickJamesBTC....what is your order number? Do you have one? Dont see you on the unofficial lists....Pot Kettle, Black? You have no real motivation in here either. Customers have all teh reason inthe world to bitch. I dont question their motives...but I will happily question yours. I have noticed no real contributions from you technical or otherwise come to think of it. Just bitching. I solve problems...its my job....I solve problems of a technical nature BUT occasionally I have to solve people problems that distract from solutions. In this case you are one of them. You are distracting people from getting their miners....I am one of those people distracted by having to respond to your useless bullshit.
If you are a customer well then you sympathise with the potential problem/solution here. We have a shot at making ourselves whole and I am working to make sure its a win-win for everyone. The lawsuit ultimatly will drain alot of money for AMT which means a partial or substandard results I do not want. By helping AMT (a few of us clients who are doing the same) we get the benefit of helping solve engineering problems and get them profitable to a point where they can make good on the MPP for those of us bound by it (they know its a thing that has to be honored for those who came before) there is now a lawsuit to enforce the accountability of all that. Assuming that goes well enough in our favor then at least those clients like myself working with them have a bit of say in how the end product turns out....we want a quality product. Hence our reasons. But again you never really stated your order number. Just wondering if you never were a customer and just butting in, or have some other reason for it. I wont come at AMT's customers this way because I know they ahve a reason to be pissed. But other busy bodies don't....or they do if the competition is trying to bury AMT....by paying people to do it.
If you are a customer well then you sympathise with the potential problem/solution here. We have a shot at making ourselves whole and I am working to make sure its a win-win for everyone. The lawsuit ultimatly will drain alot of money for AMT which means a partial or substandard results I do not want. By helping AMT (a few of us clients who are doing the same) we get the benefit of helping solve engineering problems and get them profitable to a point where they can make good on the MPP for those of us bound by it (they know its a thing that has to be honored for those who came before) there is now a lawsuit to enforce the accountability of all that. Assuming that goes well enough in our favor then at least those clients like myself working with them have a bit of say in how the end product turns out....we want a quality product. Hence our reasons. But again you never really stated your order number. Just wondering if you never were a customer and just butting in, or have some other reason for it. I wont come at AMT's customers this way because I know they ahve a reason to be pissed. But other busy bodies don't....or they do if the competition is trying to bury AMT....by paying people to do it.
Opieum is obviously a paid shill now, his absurd accusations of others for doing the same thing prove it. From day one he has been defending these scammers.
Unless these scammers are stopped, they will just come up with a new site and steal more money. Stop helping them you idiot! There is a zero percent chance that you ever get hardware that works from a broke scam.
Unless these scammers are stopped, they will just come up with a new site and steal more money. Stop helping them you idiot! There is a zero percent chance that you ever get hardware that works from a broke scam.
And you must also have a selective memory. The current bitchfest started because of me.....I went off on them. This look shillish? I started the current shitstorm they are dealing with. I was pissed and rightly so. We are working towards results. And no communication means no results. There is info that needs to be sent out and replied to...it was not happening
https://bitcointa.lk/threads/new-official-amt-thread-2.298777/page-111
I openly ripped them a new one over the lack of communication a gripe I have consistently maintained. My issues are with people who post racist nonsense or just nonsense that does not further the discussion. It works to our benefit to get results. I am pissed that I even have to do this....BUT I want results. So I am not gonna wallow in it. I give clenell ALOT of credit even if he hates me for these posts....he took action. And that is leading to much needed accountability. I for my part and taking an active roll to get the best product possible. Its not often one can work with talented people (not the AMT guys referring to the customers who we are all working together to resolve all this with from a technical standpoint) and contribute to a product you will use. As a techie its a fun thing, but from a business standpoint it sucks to do under these circumstances.
Opieum is obviously a paid shill now, his absurd accusations of others for doing the same thing prove it. From day one he has been defending these scammers.
Unless these scammers are stopped, they will just come up with a new site and steal more money. Stop helping them you idiot! There is a zero percent chance that you ever get hardware that works from a broke scam.
Unless these scammers are stopped, they will just come up with a new site and steal more money. Stop helping them you idiot! There is a zero percent chance that you ever get hardware that works from a broke scam.
Am I? I am helping them to get miners to the rest of us. There are 2 specific people who are shills and I they have not been able to address what I have said, sirminesalot cant give me a simple order number...its just a number...nothing special about....the problem is that number can be validated for proof there was indeed an order. Phin goes on and on about AMT's jewish, bulgarian masonic connection....and Josh's dad...what does that have to do with any of this? Those are who I called out. I actually stated that I do not thing loshia is not one and neither the other haters. I have a motivation to make sure those of us who paid for a miner get a working miner....all honesty its a selfish motivation because I want mine hashing and the MPP fulfilled. BUT I want it to happen for everyone in the process. I have not defended their actions. They fucked up and fucked up bad. This is me going in and getting results because I dont like being fucked over twice. This was a MASSIVE fuck up for alot of people. This is not ideal, but I like to make sure I get results. And helping them now is convenient to getting GOOD results vs just results, I don't do mediocre bitching, least not for long.
Did you buy a miner? you never answered that in my other thread......if so you stand go gain from the efforts my self and a few of the other less vocal but still very active clients are putting in to making this work...make no mistake...if we get fucked it will be hell on earth for AMT......but right now there is motivation on both sides to make sure they come through this to get us our hardware....and maybe for some even money back if they get some sales. I have no real interest in a long term relationship with them. This is about solving a massive problem NOW. You can go on and on about your accusations...but you are A: going to have clearly prove it. Considering I have publicly gone at it with them (and I do in private) It would be retarded for me to be a so called paid shill.
Im just tired of the racism and hate..... If you are ok with that, well I guess you condone all the jewish bulgarian mason nonsense too. That is what got me pissed off and thinking about who could be a paid shill here. There are people who do this. And those tactics of character defamation smack of black marketing tactics.
If you actually bought a miner you have EVERY fucking right to complain....but those who didnt have little to no reason to be here.. They just are instigators and have not provided any real good advice. Just causing more problems for everyone here. We would be collateral damage in all this.
Opieum is obviously a paid shill now, his absurd accusations of others for doing the same thing prove it. From day one he has been defending these scammers.
Unless these scammers are stopped, they will just come up with a new site and steal more money. Stop helping them you idiot! There is a zero percent chance that you ever get hardware that works from a broke scam.
Unless these scammers are stopped, they will just come up with a new site and steal more money. Stop helping them you idiot! There is a zero percent chance that you ever get hardware that works from a broke scam.
To whom it may concern
What about it Bick and opium?
Unfortunately I have not revived pm about other suspected josh scams
You know what I mean boys right?
And yeah I take all responsibly for amt failure. Opium is first in my refund list if he has something to collect from Josh
Loshia,
Please don't ruin Miningtechnologies.com like you've ruined our first company's thread. Let this be an opportunity to start over.
Please don't ruin Miningtechnologies.com like you've ruined our first company's thread. Let this be an opportunity to start over.
What about it Bick and opium?
Unfortunately I have not revived pm about other suspected josh scams
You know what I mean boys right?
And yeah I take all responsibly for amt failure. Opium is first in my refund list if he has something to collect from Josh
Opium and Bick
No matter what you do AMT IS A BIG BIG SCAM. PERIOD
I HAVE A LOT OTHER THINGS TO SAY BUT UNFORTUNALY I AM ENOUGH WITH YOUR BULSHIT.
Bick as I said make sure that you get a nice cut from Amt. That is the only thing you can do and blinking LEDs also
About opium I am wandering how josh bought you or even if you are josh. Any way josh is not gona stop to try to scam people. And someone has to pay the bill at the end. So a friendly advise for both of you gys.
Just be prepared to take Imet position very soon
About my technical skils yeah I am so stupid. The only thing what I can do is to admire a blinking led on pcb
Sorry Bick but I beg you please make me a part of your project and I promise to behave and pay my member ship fee of course. I can solder second led on Pcb if you want
No matter what you do AMT IS A BIG BIG SCAM. PERIOD
I HAVE A LOT OTHER THINGS TO SAY BUT UNFORTUNALY I AM ENOUGH WITH YOUR BULSHIT.
Bick as I said make sure that you get a nice cut from Amt. That is the only thing you can do and blinking LEDs also
About opium I am wandering how josh bought you or even if you are josh. Any way josh is not gona stop to try to scam people. And someone has to pay the bill at the end. So a friendly advise for both of you gys.
Just be prepared to take Imet position very soon
About my technical skils yeah I am so stupid. The only thing what I can do is to admire a blinking led on pcb
Sorry Bick but I beg you please make me a part of your project and I promise to behave and pay my member ship fee of course. I can solder second led on Pcb if you want
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