And some more delays in BFL shipment plans / no shipment before 14th Jan 2013 - page 14.

Syke

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Quote from: fcmatt on December 08, 2012, 04:27:20 PM

But giving out refunds is the one fricking thing they have done correctky for whoever asks. Worry? I suppose if there is a mad rush to get them but at this point that is not the case.

Pirateat40 did a pretty good job of paying out at first too. How well did that turn out? How about mybitcoin.com? etc. Every delay has more and more people asking for refunds. BFL will stop sending refunds. Make no mistake about it. The even say so on their website.

Quote from: fcmatt on December 08, 2012, 04:27:20 PM

I dont trust anyone around here. But bfl and them actually giving out refunds is a non issue until someone is stonewalled for 10+ business days.

And then it's too late. Game over. Sonny moves off to another country with another $19,000,000 in his back pocket.

bce

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Quote from: fcmatt on December 08, 2012, 04:23:50 PM

Judge them by what they do, and that is issue refunds in a satisfactory manner. Not some website page written in an hour or twoto sound fancy.

Yeah, I wish they'd polish up the website with new pics, better info, updated dates etc... and for Satoshi's sake, why is the production update so out of date? If Josh / Inaba would spend as much time fixing the site as he puts into defending against troll attacks over here, it might even have an updated pic of the SC Single's case design in place of the current main page pic (a FPGA single board with heatsink).

A scam would be more polished than the currently neglected BFL home page.

creativex

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Quote from: fcmatt on December 08, 2012, 04:23:50 PM

Judge them by what they do, and that is issue refunds in a satisfactory manner. Not some website page written in an hour or twoto sound fancy.

Did you not notice the company's COO just mention that it was a CYA clause? CYA from what? Past performance is not a reliable indicator of future actions, though I doubt denying a refund to a pre-order customer when it's months late is legal and could potentially open a huge can of worms.

fcmatt

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Quote from: creativex on December 08, 2012, 04:24:39 PM

Nothing coming from BFL means jack. Their products are delayed because they're defective...uh no they're not. They have no batches, but batch 1 will follow their convoluted 1/3 shipping schedule. You guys are right to be concerned about their future refund policy because this company's policies and explanations are consistently contradicted by their own staff.

But giving out refunds is the one fricking thing they have done correctky for whoever asks. Worry? I suppose if there is a mad rush to get them but at this point that is not the case.

I dont trust anyone around here. But bfl and them actually giving out refunds is a non issue until someone is stonewalled for 10+ business days.

creativex

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Nothing coming from BFL means jack. Their products are delayed because they're defective...uh no they're not. They have no batches, but batch 1 will follow their convoluted 1/3 shipping schedule. You guys are right to be concerned about their future refund policy because this company's policies and explanations are consistently contradicted by their own staff.

fcmatt

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Quote from: Syke on December 08, 2012, 04:03:41 PM

Quote from: fcmatt on December 08, 2012, 02:24:53 PM

Fuck me. Bfl as far as i know gives out refunds to anyone who asks. Simple as that. Why is this aspect being debated?

Why? Because the official website says they're not refundable.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/

Quote

Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable

As a member of the Bitcoin community, I'm concerned that BFL will stop giving refunds because that's their official policy.

Judge them by what they do, and that is issue refunds in a satisfactory manner. Not some website page written in an hour or twoto sound fancy.

CoinHoarder

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

Quote from: Syke on December 08, 2012, 04:03:41 PM

Quote from: fcmatt on December 08, 2012, 02:24:53 PM

Fuck me. Bfl as far as i know gives out refunds to anyone who asks. Simple as that. Why is this aspect being debated?

Why? Because the official website says they're not refundable.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/

Quote

Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable

As a member of the Bitcoin community, I'm concerned that BFL will stop giving refunds because that's their official policy.

Bro, their FAQ doesn't mean jack shit.

That same FAQ said they'd be shipping in October, then went on to elaborate for a paragraph as to why we should trust them to ship in October.

Syke

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Quote from: fcmatt on December 08, 2012, 02:24:53 PM

Fuck me. Bfl as far as i know gives out refunds to anyone who asks. Simple as that. Why is this aspect being debated?

Why? Because the official website says they're not refundable.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/

Quote

Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable

As a member of the Bitcoin community, I'm concerned that BFL will stop giving refunds because that's their official policy.

fcmatt

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Quote from: CoinHoarder on December 08, 2012, 03:46:59 PM

Quote from: fcmatt on December 08, 2012, 02:24:53 PM

Fuck me. Bfl as far as i know gives out refunds to anyone who asks. Simple as that. Why is this aspect being debated?

I wouldn't exactly say they're chompin' on the bit to give refunds.. I emailed for one Thursday and haven't heard back from them yet.

To be fair to them i would expect them to get 3-4 biz days to respond. If they dont send another email and post back here.

CoinHoarder

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

Quote from: fcmatt on December 08, 2012, 02:24:53 PM

Fuck me. Bfl as far as i know gives out refunds to anyone who asks. Simple as that. Why is this aspect being debated?

I wouldn't exactly say they're chompin' on the bit to give refunds.. I emailed for one Thursday and haven't heard back from them yet.

fcmatt

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Fuck me. Bfl as far as i know gives out refunds to anyone who asks. Simple as that. Why is this aspect being debated?

Syke

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Quote from: Inaba on December 08, 2012, 01:50:02 PM

Quote

Yes, we get it, you love to rant on and on without answering questions. Stick on topic. Which refund requests are non-refundable? Ask your boss, he can probably explain it to you.

Like I said, please find someone to explain basic English to you. I can't help you any further.

Well then go find someone that can explain it to you. There's got to be at least one of those 22 employees that can explain a basic refund policy. How about the soldering lady? You have no chips, so she's got nothing to solder. She'd probably love the chance to actually do something.

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: Inaba on December 08, 2012, 12:51:58 PM

Quote

That's pretty clear. That's not just a typo. Read it again. non·re·fund·able. What refund requests will not be honored?

Maybe you can track down someone with actual company authority to clarify the policy. Is Sonny still around, or has he skipped the country again?

Wow, we've managed to find someone more devoid of intelligence than PuertoLibre, congrats!

False, you definitely looked int the mirror at some point this year.

I'd also hate to be in your shoes when you [potentially] tell your customers that your fab contract may have not produced anything worth writing home about.

Then again, you might surprise us all on the 24th. I left some room to still believe in your COO expertise.

----------------------

Contiguous failure does eat away at the best of souls. You probably need people to cheer you on at this point.

Inaba

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Quote

Yes, we get it, you love to rant on and on without answering questions. Stick on topic. Which refund requests are non-refundable? Ask your boss, he can probably explain it to you.

Like I said, please find someone to explain basic English to you. I can't help you any further.

SLok

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Quote from: PuertoLibre on December 08, 2012, 11:31:31 AM

@ Slok

Actually, if you want, you can pester Avalon about the hard questions. I'll back you up. I am interested in the info. As long as you have a good line of questioning, I'll follow through.

No thanks, you ordered there, I did not. I've spent more time than I can miss here already, and from the silence from the Avalon team, apart from the now and then cryptic messages by some new Avalon star on this forum and a picture of some people standing besides some machines doing nothing, I haven't seen anything so far of interest from there. Avalon is/was no option because the 400W power estimate (€0.26/kwh here), and the $1999.00 price tag for anyone not included in their first batch.
ps I mentioned before the only bfl shipping update that has a value to me, comes in the form of a track/trace code from usps. Asshamster or not.

FRIZZ23 - Guaranteed 23 identities at least! - Pre-Order Yours Today! No charge at all!
`````` 24/7 - 100% totally devoted trolling! - go check him out, or one of his other identities. Only@ Bitcointalk.org-Forums, now without COCK-BUFFERS!`````

Syke

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Quote from: Inaba on December 08, 2012, 12:51:58 PM

Quote

That's pretty clear. That's not just a typo. Read it again. non·re·fund·able. What refund requests will not be honored?

Maybe you can track down someone with actual company authority to clarify the policy. Is Sonny still around, or has he skipped the country again?

Wow, we've managed to find someone more devoid of intelligence than PuertoLibre, congrats!

If you can't read, then I can't help you. If your'e too stupid to understand what you read, then again, I can't help you. I'm not you're keeper, I suggest you go find someone willing to hold your hand through simple English sentences.

Yes, we get it, you love to rant on and on without answering questions. Stick on topic. Which refund requests are non-refundable? Ask your boss, he can probably explain it to you.

Inaba

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Quote

That's pretty clear. That's not just a typo. Read it again. non·re·fund·able. What refund requests will not be honored?

Maybe you can track down someone with actual company authority to clarify the policy. Is Sonny still around, or has he skipped the country again?

Wow, we've managed to find someone more devoid of intelligence than PuertoLibre, congrats!

If you can't read, then I can't help you. If your'e too stupid to understand what you read, then again, I can't help you. I'm not you're keeper, I suggest you go find someone willing to hold your hand through simple English sentences.

Syke

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Quote from: Inaba on December 08, 2012, 03:38:26 AM

Quote from: Syke on December 08, 2012, 03:20:28 AM

Quote from: Inaba on December 08, 2012, 02:49:24 AM

What part of this was unclear?

Quote

BFL refunds anyone who asks. We always have. Yes, the policy on our website is CYA, absolutely, and I have always maintained that.

You are referring to a past event, not a policy that extends into the future. "We always have." is strictly a past event. What about the future? Will every refund request be honored in the future?

So let me get this straight... you want me to ... wait for it ... predict the future.

Given your past ability to predict the future (Oct ship date missed, Nov ship date missed, Dec ship date to be missed), I have zero confidence in your ability to predict the future.

I know you like to fly off the handle ranting, and it does provide a good deal of entertainment here, but I'm asking you very simple direct questions. I will keep rephrasing it until you understand. I am asking for you to clarity company policy. Real businesses have a clearly stated return policy. What refund requests will or will not be honored?

Let's take a look at how this looks on a website for a real company:

http://store.apple.com/us/help/returns_refund

Quote

You have 14 calendar days to return an item from the date you received it.

See how nice and clear that is? I can go buy an Apple product, and they correctly "predict the future" up to 14 day ahead I can return that product.

Let's look at BFL's again:

http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/

Quote

Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable

That's pretty clear. That's not just a typo. Read it again. non·re·fund·able. What refund requests will not be honored?

Maybe you can track down someone with actual company authority to clarify the policy. Is Sonny still around, or has he skipped the country again?

wachtwoord

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Quote from: bce on December 08, 2012, 12:09:37 PM

About certifications: I won't even buy something off ebay until I check for the FCC label. I want to make sure that it won't interfere with my coffee maker. Thank goodness the FCC is watching over us, and protecting us from bad things like wardrobe malfuctions Roll Eyes

Eric Idle- The FCC Song

bce

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If BFL takes orders using paypal (highly fraud prone to begin with, with chargebacks, identity theft etc), just imagine what happens if someone says - "Hey, i need to change my order to a non paypal-verified address. My cousin overseas wants this mini rig more than me."

What BFL should say is "Well, we can't do that, but we can cancel and refund your pre-order."

That makes sense to me.

About certifications: I won't even buy something off ebay until I check for the FCC label. I want to make sure that it won't interfere with my coffee maker. Thank goodness the FCC is watching over us, and protecting us from bad things like wardrobe malfuctions Roll Eyes

Topic: And some more delays in BFL shipment plans / no shipment before 14th Jan 2013 - page 14. (Read 22705 times)