Topic: [ANN] "BitBaY" Commission Bonds thread! - page 5. (Read 16670 times)

Yes defiantly there will be previews of the site and layout to investors. We just need to keep the name Secret for now.
I have been thinking of getting a trademark although it maybe a wast because most Developers of these sites are out of the US reach.
To all investors if you have any questions please feel free to message me any time by PM, E-mail, Skype or Twitter.



~Cassie

Cassie,

While I understand the need for secuity over DNS convention, I'm sure for the sake of progress updates you could privately provide the stakeholders with IP addresses which they could periodically check things out. How does that sound?

btcmania: It is a sad state of affairs. Whereas I personally have no issue with what any project manager may or may not do to earn a living, I do have an interest in the way investors were misled in to parting with their investment as you put it Sketchy payout information. Developer has yet to be found or is a 3rd party. CEO has no experience in operating an exchange.

It now transpires the site is 25% complete. She claimed to have hired some professionals (mental gauge) to do the work and then changed her mind and did not even let anyone know. She then re-hired Justin but did not feel the need to announce it here until I posted here displaying her fallacies.

She then got rid of Justin but did not feel the need to update here. She only released that information after two investors have openly demanded their money back and after I started a thread where investors can if they wish to list their demand/request for their money back: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-bitbay-commission-shares-thread-refunds-441329


Well, she is clearly stating she will NOT pay back the investment because "she is not financially able to do that". She stated on numerous occasions she has 4.175BTC safe with her. Well, that is enough BTC to pay back in full the following people for the first round of 'funding':



                                                           

1'st Round Shares: 0.025 per share. Sold: 167 shares. Total: 4.175 BTC

ficilan - 2 Shares [Paid]

Daemonfox - 10 Shares [Paid]

Marty19 - 15 shares [Paid]

Milly6 - 4 shares [Paid]

lajz99 - 2 shares [Paid] WANTS FUNDS BACK: 0.05BTC

JohnDorien - 8 shares [Paid]

jdebunt - 2 shares [Paid]

Jcsarokin - 5 shares [Paid]

Cygnify - 4 shares [Paid]

aTriz - 50 shares [Paid]

transit - 50 shares [Paid]  WANTS FUNDS BACK: 1.25BTC

vega - 10 shares [Paid]

glongsword - 5 shares [Paid]

                                                             



As for the remainder Round 2 investors, well that 6.825BTC was stolen by Justin but Cassie has not reported it to the police. Can anyone fathom a legitimate reason why a project manager would not report a crime of this magnitude to the police? He threatened to kill her and made a malicious infected website using the BitBay domain yet she did not report him. I am sure that 6.825BTC would re-appear in quick time once the police is involved but she refuses to go down that route which incidentally is the appropriate legal route.

Those investors that make it clear they want to stay with the 'project' are most welcome to stay and everyone will wish them success in their business and in their trust of Cassie. Investors' funds from Round 1 who want to stay with the project can be used to part pay Round 2 investors who want a refund.

If Cassie refunds investors who want a refund and then goes ahead with the project either alone or with the investors that still trust her then it means everyone will be happy.

Hmm...

1) Invest in an exchange listed on Cryptostocks, where detailed information is available on the company, proper contact information, expected dividend payout information. The owner *is* the developer. CEO has years of prior programming experience.

2) Invest into a post on Bitcointalk where the only contact information is a Twitter of some chick who splashes her breasts for the world to see. Sketchy payout information. Developer has yet to be found or is a 3rd party. CEO has no experience in operating an exchange.

Glad I chose option #1 unlike some other people.

Sorry to all the investors but I have been very busy with work and dealing with all the drama. I have stayed away from the thread so I could concentrate on pulling things together. Instead of dealing with Cheekys ridiculous flame war. All investors know how to contact me. I have a twitter and my skype info all on my profile.
A new moderated thread will have to be made soon so we can keep on topic.

 1 :No the site is not complete yet I would say honestly around 25% completed.

 2: As for Justin no I have talked with a few other investors and decided this would not be a good idea. So no Justin is not involved with the project what so ever.

 3: ETA on the site around a month. I would say feb 30th if all go's well and there are no major bumps.

I want to address some other things also.

4: There has been a name change I cannot release publicly because the Bitbay name idea was stolen and copied more than once. I think its best to keep this name secret until
    The LLC has been filed. I can say that this time we have acquired the .COM .NET .ORG and .INFO . I think most of you would agree to the decision not to release the name.
    As of now the we can go with Project code name > Mrs. Butterworth

5: I have a meeting with a CPA to work the rest of the final details out tomorrow and expect to have a meeting with most of the investors on G+
    although nothing is set in stone as of yet.

6: Regarding  Shares, I have talked with a few investors shares including DaemonFox who suggested that I issue Bonds instead of shares in the form of Bitcoin addresses.
    The reasoning behind this is although Bitcoin Security's are not regulated at this time, it is a gray area and could come back to haunt us in the future.
    A llc can issue its own bonds with no problems. I think this would be better for the company's and investors to issue some sort of hybrid Bonds in the place of shares.
    I would like some feed back from investors on this if you have the time.

8: I think some one mentioned the "Mental gauge Design" . This was done at a studio of a good friend of mine who has been mentoring me. He turned out not to have the time to
    invest in the project but he has been guiding me.  As I stated when that was shown this is not the final concept, just a preview of what we are trying to achieve.
    A new modern clean design with excellent functionality.

9 : Developers. I have chosen a Trusted Professional Server admin that will be giving us 24 hour support that will work for BTC. Right now I am taking bids from a few different
     web development companies. I still want make sure we get the best skill and over all value that we can buy. I think this is the best way to do this.
     I have pulled in some RL help to assist me with PR and organizing things you may see him on the thread his Bitcointalk name is Name is AlecPrince.

10: As for refunding Btc I am sorry i can not do this if I refund one investor then I maybe expected to refund them all and I would not financially be able to do that.
      I can and will however continue on and deliver what was promised that way we all win.  If any investors or anyone with experience in web development or management
      would like to help out that would be great. Your constructive Ideas and advise are always welcomed.


Thank you for your Time.

~Cassie  

The most important thing to note is that Cassie does not regularly update investors or the community. As mentioned before on numerous occasions, her lack of business acumen and utter incompetence on a project management basis is clear for all to see.

You cannot blame investors for wanting their funds back.

For all investors who want their money back here is a link: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-bitbay-commission-shares-thread-refunds-441329

I haven't ignored this topic, I've just been pulled in many directions. I looked over the google doc, I like a lot of what's there.

Right now foremost in my mind is, what's the sitrep of what cassie and justin have recently agreed on?

Keep in mind this is your last chance. You need something legit to launch pretty much now, or the project is going to disintegrate, mainly due to rising competition.

Regarding return of shares, I'm willing to take ownership of the domain names in place of the share, unless the project is ready to go live. By taking ownership, I will not keep the domain for myself. If I happen to produce an auction site for cryptocurrencies, I will have the domain point to the appropriate servers regardless of name. If another place pops up and wants to buy it, I will be open to that as well.

This is for the community afterall.

1.25BTC is a lot of money, I feel sorry for you since the project manager cannot be bothered to update her investors. What a shame and what a disgrace.

As much as I feel sorry for you, I feel much more sorry for someone like Marty19 because he paid 3.75BTC for his 50 'shares' @ 0.075BTC and another 0.375BTC for 15 'shares' @ 0.025BTC. Having said that I feel sad that all investors have been messed around so much by someone they trusted but she totally let you all down.

What a sorry state of affairs we find ourselves in when this whole 'project' could have been up and running by now. This project has been disgracefully mismanaged by the project manager. Investors are openly demanding their funds back, we wait to see how she responds.

I would like my .05 back as well, this is a bunch of bullshit...

I want my coins back.

I transferred 1.25 BTC for 50 shares
https://blockchain.info/tx/7b040ef9a1a04ccd7355514b638da6e876d97e3f152abc4d4f94e2613931208c?currency=MBC

BTC address to deposit the refund:
18hsXG9v252B7zpNPY7ZnjBAA6A5MdZict

Thanks,

It has been 5 days since you posted here. Even then there was no real update, just a mini warning that investors might have lost all their BTC which was entrusted to you.

It has been 8 days since you informed everyone that you re-hired Justin to complete the project but you have not given an update like Project Managers do with investors.

Could you please post here and give everyone an update. Is the site complete? Is Justin still working on it? You wrote on 22 January 2014 stating you were working on it day and night. Please let us know what is going on with the project. Is it 90% complete yet? Can you give an estimated completion date?

Thank you.

Very good point. You returned 40BTC to miners after you got hacked. You said earlier you could have simply not have paid up but you did and that is a testament to the way you conducted yourself during that difficult time. Well done for your openness and the manner in which you dealt with that issue.

Here, sadly, Cassie the project leader posted some weeks back that a new rent-a-coder team (MentalGauge) were hired to make a completely new BitBay store and a URL to view an image was provided http://mentalgauge.com/bitbay.jpg.




Cassie then did not explain to anyone why the MentalGauge team were no longer working on the project, if they actually started anything at all and how much she may have paid them (thus possibly losing more of investors' money).

She went a step further and shocked everyone because she did not explain why she unilaterally decided to go back to Justin (the rent-a-coder who stole 6.825BTC from the project) to ask him to carry on coding the original BitBay website which seems to be based on the $47 turnkey solution.

Even if they manage launch a BitBay website, where does it end for investors?

Investors have invested on the basis that Cassie stated 50% of all profits from auctions (Cassie never defined what that means) will be paid on a weekly basis to all investors based on their shareholding.

By default this means if someone purchased/invested 1 share for say 0.075BTC then he or she will forever receive on a weekly basis 1/258 shares worth of profit based on her keeping 50% of the profits and investors keeping the rest! So if the website turns over a first year undefined auctions profit of 200BTC, she expects everyone to believe that she will keep 100BTC and the other 100BTC will be split into 258 shares @ 0.3875BTC per each shareholder will always receive their monies on time! How ridiculous for anyone to expect that she will do that regardless of how miniscule the amount of dividends might be!

Fast forward 20 years... if this 'project' becomes even 1% of what eBay is, she expects everyone to believe that she will make payments valued at tens of thousands of dollars on a weekly basis for the rest her lifetime and after she dies the new owners will continue making weekly payments to investors yet is she is a project manager who cannot even inform the police that someone she hired to work on 'her' project with YOUR money has stolen a staggering 6.825BTC of it and is using it as living expenses! Investors have no legal contract with her or with BitBay, investors have no right to legal options to leave their shareholdings in a will, investors are not protected at all... investors have no legal protection within BitBay as there is no real contract in place, it is all open ended mumbo-jumbo based on her stating she will do this and she will do that and that is all!

The only thing investors have is enough evidence to go to the police and report the whole matter and then let the police and criminal justice system decide what Cassie and Justin may or may not have done.

Simple as this:
Involve the police = investors get their BTC back
Do not involve the police = investors keep on waiting...

In her 'contract' there is no specification with regards to taxation and adhering to various other regulations which could possibly make the whole enterprise illegal because around 6.825BTC worth thousands of dollars were stolen and she did not even report it as a crime. Now, if that is not mismanagement on a gigantic unforgivable scale then what is?

Think about it, someone she hires to code a website ends up stealing thousands of dollars worth of YOUR investment and she did not report it to the police! Instead went back to him to ask him to start working on the website again so how can you trust her to do anything right in the future? What a pathetic, disastrous episode in project management!

In the very unlikely scenario this 'project' does see the light of day then I assure you it will create more problems than there are now because no-one will believe her when she starts giving out profit/loss figures. She has not even defined to any investors what she claims are "auction profits". In the unlikely scenario this website went live, she could effectively unilaterally re-invest profits for example marketing/advertising or invisible 'costs' to offset investors profits and then state there were no profits for such and such period.

This whole 'project' was a disaster from the beginning because Cassie the project manager was an utterly incompetent individual with no business acumen in the slightest.

aTriz: you are not the only one who is confused... all investors are. She received a phenomenal 11BTC of investment for this 'project' when it could have gotten off the ground by now with next to nothing in funding. She claims 4.175BTC is secure with her and 6.825BTC was stolen by Justin.

I feel sorry all investors being sucked in to this pathetic soap opera which has to be said is written, produced and directed by Cassie.

I'm so confused on what's going on. I don't know if the site is being launched, what we are waiting on? I don't see how this could possibly work unless you somehow earn peoples trust back. The only way you do that is by returning the 4ish BTC that is left. Though what do I know I just did the exact same thing with hashcows (like I stated earlier paying back over 40 BTC from which was stolen by a hacker)

I hope you manage to find some time to enjoy yourself while away. Looking forward to your views when you get back or when you have time.

Honestly, my view is that arguing (or in the case of you and I etc, discussing) anything here is nearly pointless given the position we are in. I am pretty much over trying to put any effort into posting on this thread...

I am also leaving town for a week and though I will have internet access... most of my waking time will be involved with IRL team members and more work. As such, you will probably not here anything from me before Saturday sometime next weekend.

IDK what else there is to do really... we can plan and discuss till the world implodes... nothing we want is going to happen unless a completely separate project is created by someone and without the funding from here.

I am just content right now to not deal with any of it and see what Cassie can accomplish in a week, maybe a preview of something legit will appear.

~Daemon

@Ultra
You are most welcome

@Vesper and Daemon
Do you have any feedback regarding my PM or any other update or views in general?

I noticed she answered one of your questions and ignored the other. Being a shareholder in this type of enterprise is not a risk if it is managed properly since the investment is so low and even loss sustaining projects could recoup the initial outlay to pay back all shareholders.

As for the first question you asked: "How does it work", it needs to be stated for the record that the Cassie never actually listed "how it works" with full clarity before asking for investments and never stated which legal rights/protection the shareholders have and she never stated their legal status and recourse to any dispute which may arise. Some shareholders believe they have invested in BitBay (a legal entity/company) and some investors believe they have invested with Cassie who in-turn will invest in BitBay on their behalf.

To answer you question in a nutshell: Cassie stated she was selling 50% of all profits from 'auctions' to shareholders (ie investors). She never clarified what was to define as 'auctions'. She never defined the length of time the shareholders have assets with the BitBay but according to her they purchased a percentage of the BitBay undefined 'auctions' profits.

Going by the above, if BitBay and/or the company were to fold none of the investors would get anything back and they have no legal recourse to investigate or challenge her management of the project. However unlikely the scenario, if BitBay and/or the company became an economic superpower such as eBay then she expects everyone to believe that for an investment of less that $7000 she will part with 50% of profit of all undefined 'auctions' BitBay generates and she will make payments to shareholders on a weekly basis for the next 1, 2, 3, 10, 25, 50 years (forever even) that BitBay will run.

Ultra thank your lucky stars you did not invest in this 'project' because for a project manager running a simple low cost project such as this to state as an answer to your second question: "Yes it is risky, almost all bit coin investments are considered high risk . That is why you should never invest more than you can afford to lose." gives clarity as to whether that person should be running the show.

This 'project' is not like going to CoiunedUp or Cryptsy and purchasing various crypto not knowing if you would a loss or not in the coming days/weeks. This 'project' was sold to gullible investors without properly explaining to them what they were buying in to and what their all round legal status would be. Once a site like this is up and running it is next to impossible for it to not generate money in the long run.

For a project manager to turn around and say after receiving around $7000 of investment that it is a risk investors may get nothing is pathetic considering the investment was not in the millions for rocket science research nor for nuclear physics research! The investment was for a small website that any decent level coder could create for a small fee and then take live within 21 days. It was to be hosted and protected, secured and then monetised within weeks of going live. Having said that, $7000 was too much investment for a tiny project (one that did not need financing in the first place) as the only outlay was a website rent-a-coder and then add to that hosting and SSL fees.

All investors have accepted Justin will not return the 6.825BTC of stolen funds yet Cassie has not reported him to the police for theft, nor for making threats to kill her and for a whole host of other matters. Instead she re-hired him to finish of part of the site in order to make it go live!

We wait to see where this project goes as some investors are trying to push the project forward with interesting ideas but Cassie is clinging on to it and the remaining 4.125BTC (which her chosen rent-a-coder Justin did not steal) with dear life.

Yes it is risky, almost all bit coin investments are considered high risk . That is why you should never invest more than you can afford to lose.

I have never been a shareholder, How does it work? Is it very risky? Thanks!