Topic: [ANN] LocalBitcoins.com - a location-based bitcoin to cash marketplace - page 39. (Read 126170 times)

Just to clarify ... SMS isn't a requirement though.  There is a button to release the funds from the website as well.  The SMS is an alternate method to release the funds.

Yeah, we are working on this. Sorry that the button isn't already there. We will also have "auto-fund" feature for those wo want to use it.

Ok, so in a test transaction I listed an ad to sell.  My Local Bitcoins wallet shows 1.0 BTC.  I see the "active contact" from the buyer and I click on it.  it shows Transaction Status: Not funded.  Required.   
It then shows:
 To fund the transaction, send exactly 0.nnnn BTC to bitcoin address 1Nab123cd....

Now, if I already have sufficient bitcoins in my wallet, shouldn't I be able to in one click send the funds from my wallet?

Instead, I clicked on the Wallet tab and sent the coins from there.   But instead of it instantly applying the funds, I see it handed it thrugh the blockchain.

Couldn't there have been a single click to apply funds from my wallet on the site and the funds would transfer instantly (without going through the blockchain?)

Now we have changed the name of the escrow feature to "LocalBitcoins Transaction" or just "Transaction" where the connection is obvious. We changed the name because it is not actually escrow service by the traditional definition, no disputes or resolution services.

Other definitions:

"Transaction verify code": this is generated for the buyer. When the seller shows this code to the buyer, buyer can be 100% that funds have been released. The buyer should check that the code shown by the seller matches the code shown by localbitcoins.com
"Transaction release code": the seller can release the escrow by sending this code to the number +16466994674 . This releases the funds to the buyer, and the seller should receive the verify code promptly, which he/she can show to the buyer.

The benefits of the service are:

- No internet connection needed - only one SMS-enabled phone required to make the transaction on the spot
- Quick process - the buyer does neet any devices, just memorize/write down the transaction verify code
- Allows the users to gain reputation via confirmed trades. If users use this service, we have a way to confirm that trade actually happened.

The LocalBitcoins Transaction service is not enforced in any way. You are free to create any kind of deal with the customer, use smartphone clients, laptops, whatever. We just recommend to use the transaction feature when the customer requests it - it should make the process much easier for the buyer.

Edit: and sorry about the confusion/hassle caused by the name.

Thanks for the tip. We will try to fix these issues soon.

There appear to be some data issues.

For instance,
U.S. (lowercase)
 - https://localbitcoins.com/location/us/Los%20Angeles/

gets listed separate from
U.S. (uppercase)
 - https://localbitcoins.com/location/US/Santa%20Monica/

The list will become unusable as you start to add the thousands of cities.    A drill down interface, with States and/or MSAs for the U.S. data, will probably be needed eventually.  Or filtering using tags perhaps.

Not everyone has a smartphone or laptop, and there is not always wifi cafes closeby. We are especially targeting 3rd world countries with our service, where transaction with SMS could prove useful.

If you don't want to use "escrow" service, that is fine to us. We are not forcing anyone to use our escrow. However if the paying customer wants to use it, I see it as a good behaviour from the seller to accept it. It means that we might in the future force some kind of fee on those who especially want to prohibit escrow. However that won't be the case at least in the near future - the site will remain free to use for at least for the time I have funds to run it.

Edit: and we will soon be branding the service differently, it is not really an escrow service. It is a tool to make offline (no internet) transactions via SMS.

You don't have to wait for a confirmation when meeting somebody for an in person trade. There are three ways to double spend:

1) Timing attack. Broadcast one transaction such that the recipient sees it but simultaneously broadcast another transaction that miners see. This is tricky and it's easy to make this attack hard/impossible - use a mobile wallet like Bitcoin wallet and ensure you're using an internet connection that the seller can't control. For instance, cafe wifi or just your regular 3G connection. Now the counterparty does not know your IP address. In future these attacks will get even harder as we implement flooding of double spends to the network.

2) Finney attack. This is where you mine a block and once you solve one, make the trade, then broadcast your block reversing the payment. Because you can't control when you find a block, you need to precisely control the time of the trade. In practice for an in person transaction you can't do that. It's only an issue for automated merchants on the internet which are selling 24/7 with low latency.

3) Fork the chain attack. Even harder than a Finney attack. You'd need 51%+ of the networks hash power. Not an issue for in person trades.

For this reason I don't want to use any escrow service, at all. If Jeremias wants to make people fund the site, that's fine, but I'd rather pay to maintain an ad than be forced into an "escrow" system that isn't useful for me.

Imo thats the best way. There's no need for escrow. If you are suspicious, you can ask a friend to join the meeting.

same as bitcoin.de for example.
not suitable for cash transactions, tho.

whats there not to understand?
theres always a "logical second" in which a betrayal is possible.

usually when i meet, i have a coffee with the guy, show him the money, he sends me the BTC, we finish our coffee, i give him the cash.

the really careful type (only had that happen twice) hands me a privkey with 1/2 the amount, i fork over the cash, he gives me a privkey with the other half.


most the times, the guy sends the BTC and we meet sometime thereafter or i send the money in the same afternoon. but that's just how i roll, i never send first^^

sometimes, there's simply a letter in my PO box with a couple hundred € in it and a QR code.

of course this is all reliant on my reputation, my postcount, my feedback thread and my demeanor (see my semi-rant in another thread about overtecnicalization of trust).

I'd rather pass on a deal than send first.

Indeed, for most transactions I use bitmarket.eu which has an escrow system for bitcoins.

I don't understand. How do you conclude the transaction? Let's assume you are the seller. The buyer gives you the cash hand to hand, how does he know you sent the bitcoins and didn't double spend them? What do you give him? Do you both wait together until there are, for example, 2 confirmations? That can take a few minutes as well as an hour.

Don't forget that most of the time you do not know the sender, and you do not have any reason to take his word for it.

when one meets in person, theres no need for escrow imho.
only if i sell per cash in the mail / SEPA i truly have a need for escrow (as a buyer).

so i'd like to permanently disable escrow and have buyers get a message "seller doesnt offer escrow", instead of forcing me to use it even if i myself have disabled it.



if you postulate a need for escrow even in face2face situation, surely you must need escrow when dealing with mail/SEPA type transactions.

You're supposed to do that at the same time, he releases the coin at the time you give him the money. You realize that localbitcoins is made for person to person exchanges where the seller and the buyer meet physically, right? This is the same problem as if the seller sells you a book, but doesn't give it to you when you give him the money, or if you get the book and runs away without giving him the money.

The way it happened when I bought bitcoins this way is that I showed the money to the seller, he released the escrow, I received a text message, and I gave him the bills. All that in around one minute.

And what if I payed the seller and he decides to not release the bitcoins?

This is not the way it works: the escrow system is only a trusted party that will notify you instantly when the bitcoins have been sent to your address, and when it does, the seller can no longer take them back. The buyer does not claim the bitcoins from the escrow, the seller releases them instead.

The advantage is that if you trust localbitcoins.com, you know that when you get the notification the money is on the way to your wallet. That allows for quick transactions where you do not need to wait for confirmations.

What happens to my bitcoins (in escrow) if the buyer states that he payed me but he didn't. There is no way to proove that I didn't get the money (cash) and he may claim the bitcoins. Will these bitcoins be gone forever in the escrow piggy bank?

You should special case three cities in France: "75xxx" postcodes all mean "Paris" (more exactly, "75001" to "75020" plus "75116", but no other "75xxx" postcode exist for physical addresses), "13001" to "13016" are "Marseille", and "69001" to "69009" mean "Lyon" (other "13xxx" and "69xxx" exist for other cities). Those are the three largest cities in France and are split into neighbourhood with their own postcodes, but it makes little sense to list them separately.

Nice! However, can you explain by what criteria this is, hm, sorted? It seems in almost random order.