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Topic: [ANN] The world's first handheld Bitcoin device, the Ellet! - page 14. (Read 45664 times)

sr. member
Activity: 270
Merit: 250
1CoinLabF5Avpp5kor41ngn7prTFMMHFVc
Very cool idea!  We're looking forward to trying one out.  Sorry if this has already been covered, but when do you expect you'll be able to deliver these?
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!

I was under the impression scrambling is just a measure to prevent anyone from just "listening in" by turning on their ham radio--I'm talking about the following

Digital Represented values are encrypted into a Digital format by a key the receiver already knows.
The digital encrypted message is converted into analog values that are represented by a key table that the receiver already knows.
Now the sender broadcasts the message in analog(sound/light spectrum) but it isn't represented with two values, instead it is represented by the whole analog spectrum.
The receiver decodes the analog signal with a key table... Then decrypts the signal into digital represented values.

Im not sure what my "theory" would make the broadcast sound like to a listener but at least it doesn't sound like off and on ticks and thus the FCC would get a signal but it would be static... so the FCC could prove a signal is coming from somewhere but not know why they are broadcasting static Tongue (of course im still assuming my broadcast would sound like static or weird noises of some sort... makes me want to try it out...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrambler
Wikipedia gives me the impression scrambling is just packets of analog signals moved in different positions in the timeline where the reciever has a decoder that buffers packets and then puts them in the correct order for play back.

I'm interested in your opinion because you seem to know what your talking about.
i don't think you can do that losslessly. there needs to be some kind of binary system in it, so you can make it digital again.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
would the Ellet be able to talk the Bitcoincard protocol.  That's the real question.
I don't see how anything standard would be able to talk to that non-standard device. I guess we could go out of our way to add specific hardware to our device that would allow it to talk to bitcoincard, but I don't see any company would do that that didn't have a contract directly with the other company. Put in other words, do iPhones have built in receivers for ham radio?


Technically, yes they do.  A standard wifi chip is capable of transmitting & receiving in the nearby ham band (I beleive 70cm band IIRC) and use of these features require a ham callsign to be transmitted with the SSID.  There are two channels available, and are traditionally called Zero and -1, since they are on that side of the unlicensed wifi band.  Unlockling these capabilities, at a minumum requires rooting your phone, though.  In the ham world, this is commonly called the 'Hinternet'.  Google is your friend.
I have found nothing on google about "iphone" and "hinternet" Sad

Also, the FCC doesn't allow encryption.  I know the standard bitcoin protocol doesn't use encryption, but does the ellet's use of the electrum protocol?

Now I really want to get out my HAM equipment.

I'm interested in see facts about the FCC not allowing encryption.
Also How would they prove the "static" they are hearing is encrypted code awaiting to be decrypted?
i think you would still be able to hear 1&0's. it would not be static.

Depends if you sent the values in analog or digital format Wink
true, but not if its encrypted. encrypted means digital.
if your gonna obfuscate analog signals, its called scrambling. Wink
I was under the impression scrambling is just a measure to prevent anyone from just "listening in" by turning on their ham radio--I'm talking about the following

Digital Represented values are encrypted into a Digital format by a key the receiver already knows.
The digital encrypted message is converted into analog values that are represented by a key table that the receiver already knows.
Now the sender broadcasts the message in analog(sound/light spectrum) but it isn't represented with two values, instead it is represented by the whole analog spectrum.
The receiver decodes the analog signal with a key table... Then decrypts the signal into digital represented values.

Im not sure what my "theory" would make the broadcast sound like to a listener but at least it doesn't sound like off and on ticks and thus the FCC would get a signal but it would be static... so the FCC could prove a signal is coming from somewhere but not know why they are broadcasting static Tongue (of course im still assuming my broadcast would sound like static or weird noises of some sort... makes me want to try it out...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrambler
Wikipedia gives me the impression scrambling is just packets of analog signals moved in different positions in the timeline where the reciever has a decoder that buffers packets and then puts them in the correct order for play back.

I'm interested in your opinion because you seem to know what your talking about.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
would the Ellet be able to talk the Bitcoincard protocol.  That's the real question.
I don't see how anything standard would be able to talk to that non-standard device. I guess we could go out of our way to add specific hardware to our device that would allow it to talk to bitcoincard, but I don't see any company would do that that didn't have a contract directly with the other company. Put in other words, do iPhones have built in receivers for ham radio?


Technically, yes they do.  A standard wifi chip is capable of transmitting & receiving in the nearby ham band (I beleive 70cm band IIRC) and use of these features require a ham callsign to be transmitted with the SSID.  There are two channels available, and are traditionally called Zero and -1, since they are on that side of the unlicensed wifi band.  Unlockling these capabilities, at a minumum requires rooting your phone, though.  In the ham world, this is commonly called the 'Hinternet'.  Google is your friend.
I have found nothing on google about "iphone" and "hinternet" Sad

Also, the FCC doesn't allow encryption.  I know the standard bitcoin protocol doesn't use encryption, but does the ellet's use of the electrum protocol?

Now I really want to get out my HAM equipment.

I'm interested in see facts about the FCC not allowing encryption.
Also How would they prove the "static" they are hearing is encrypted code awaiting to be decrypted?
i think you would still be able to hear 1&0's. it would not be static.

Depends if you sent the values in analog or digital format Wink
true, but not if its encrypted. encrypted means digital.
if your gonna obfuscate analog signals, its called scrambling. Wink
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
would the Ellet be able to talk the Bitcoincard protocol.  That's the real question.
I don't see how anything standard would be able to talk to that non-standard device. I guess we could go out of our way to add specific hardware to our device that would allow it to talk to bitcoincard, but I don't see any company would do that that didn't have a contract directly with the other company. Put in other words, do iPhones have built in receivers for ham radio?


Technically, yes they do.  A standard wifi chip is capable of transmitting & receiving in the nearby ham band (I beleive 70cm band IIRC) and use of these features require a ham callsign to be transmitted with the SSID.  There are two channels available, and are traditionally called Zero and -1, since they are on that side of the unlicensed wifi band.  Unlockling these capabilities, at a minumum requires rooting your phone, though.  In the ham world, this is commonly called the 'Hinternet'.  Google is your friend.
I have found nothing on google about "iphone" and "hinternet" Sad

Also, the FCC doesn't allow encryption.  I know the standard bitcoin protocol doesn't use encryption, but does the ellet's use of the electrum protocol?

Now I really want to get out my HAM equipment.

I'm interested in see facts about the FCC not allowing encryption.
Also How would they prove the "static" they are hearing is encrypted code awaiting to be decrypted?
i think you would still be able to hear 1&0's. it would not be static.

Depends if you sent the values in analog or digital format Wink
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
would the Ellet be able to talk the Bitcoincard protocol.  That's the real question.
I don't see how anything standard would be able to talk to that non-standard device. I guess we could go out of our way to add specific hardware to our device that would allow it to talk to bitcoincard, but I don't see any company would do that that didn't have a contract directly with the other company. Put in other words, do iPhones have built in receivers for ham radio?


Technically, yes they do.  A standard wifi chip is capable of transmitting & receiving in the nearby ham band (I beleive 70cm band IIRC) and use of these features require a ham callsign to be transmitted with the SSID.  There are two channels available, and are traditionally called Zero and -1, since they are on that side of the unlicensed wifi band.  Unlockling these capabilities, at a minumum requires rooting your phone, though.  In the ham world, this is commonly called the 'Hinternet'.  Google is your friend.
I have found nothing on google about "iphone" and "hinternet" Sad

Also, the FCC doesn't allow encryption.  I know the standard bitcoin protocol doesn't use encryption, but does the ellet's use of the electrum protocol?

Now I really want to get out my HAM equipment.

I'm interested in see facts about the FCC not allowing encryption.
Also How would they prove the "static" they are hearing is encrypted code awaiting to be decrypted?
i think you would still be able to hear 1&0's. it would not be static.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
would the Ellet be able to talk the Bitcoincard protocol.  That's the real question.
I don't see how anything standard would be able to talk to that non-standard device. I guess we could go out of our way to add specific hardware to our device that would allow it to talk to bitcoincard, but I don't see any company would do that that didn't have a contract directly with the other company. Put in other words, do iPhones have built in receivers for ham radio?


Technically, yes they do.  A standard wifi chip is capable of transmitting & receiving in the nearby ham band (I beleive 70cm band IIRC) and use of these features require a ham callsign to be transmitted with the SSID.  There are two channels available, and are traditionally called Zero and -1, since they are on that side of the unlicensed wifi band.  Unlockling these capabilities, at a minumum requires rooting your phone, though.  In the ham world, this is commonly called the 'Hinternet'.  Google is your friend.
I have found nothing on google about "iphone" and "hinternet" Sad

Also, the FCC doesn't allow encryption.  I know the standard bitcoin protocol doesn't use encryption, but does the ellet's use of the electrum protocol?

Now I really want to get out my HAM equipment.

I'm interested in see facts about the FCC not allowing encryption.
Also How would they prove the "static" they are hearing is encrypted code awaiting to be decrypted?
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Web Dev, Db Admin, Computer Technician
'Ellet' is kind of wonky.
Share, 'share.io'
E-Wad
PENID - Personal Electronic Network Input/Output Device
PEBc - Prounounced 'peb-see' is the Personal Electronic Bitcoin Client
EMTY - Electronic Money Transaction Yeller
PEANT - Prounounced 'pee-nut' Personal Electronic Accounting with Network Transactions
DICC - Digital Interactive Currency Client 'How big is your DICC?' 'Even the Queen has a DICC.' 'Do you have a savings? No, I've been pissing it away.' 'Did you send the money? It's coming.'

How will the device fair when sloshing around in my pocket with the rest of my change?
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
would the Ellet be able to talk the Bitcoincard protocol.  That's the real question.
I don't see how anything standard would be able to talk to that non-standard device. I guess we could go out of our way to add specific hardware to our device that would allow it to talk to bitcoincard, but I don't see any company would do that that didn't have a contract directly with the other company. Put in other words, do iPhones have built in receivers for ham radio?


Technically, yes they do.  A standard wifi chip is capable of transmitting & receiving in the nearby ham band (I beleive 70cm band IIRC) and use of these features require a ham callsign to be transmitted with the SSID.  There are two channels available, and are traditionally called Zero and -1, since they are on that side of the unlicensed wifi band.  Unlockling these capabilities, at a minumum requires rooting your phone, though.  In the ham world, this is commonly called the 'Hinternet'.  Google is your friend.
I have found nothing on google about "iphone" and "hinternet" Sad

Also, the FCC doesn't allow encryption.  I know the standard bitcoin protocol doesn't use encryption, but does the ellet's use of the electrum protocol?

Now I really want to get out my HAM equipment.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
Officially, It wouldn't affect the Ellet at all as the Ellet is intended to be a functional payment device capable of handling -all- relevant payment methods, utilize the infinite amount of existing infrastructure out there, and provide a marketable form factor and feature set that will bring non-bitcoiners into Bitcoin. Bitcoincard seems to be a nerds toy (no offense) with little to no chance of any kind of adoption in a real world environment. Also, given it's supposed form factor, it is more in competition with Casascius coins than the Ellet.

I can agree that your devices don't seem to be in quite the same market, but you do appear to be threatened by their claims.
Not threatened, annoyed by vaporware. Call it overjoy that made me want to announce without a photo, but anyone trying to convince the baker that he isn't baking a cake just because they aren't eating it yet is only going to receive puzzled looks from the baker. If however that baker claims he is baking a cake larger than the oven itself, then you can make some claims and ask some questions (which is what I've been doing to the bitcoincard).

would the Ellet be able to talk the Bitcoincard protocol.  That's the real question.
I don't see how anything standard would be able to talk to that non-standard device. I guess we could go out of our way to add specific hardware to our device that would allow it to talk to bitcoincard, but I don't see any company would do that that didn't have a contract directly with the other company. Put in other words, do iPhones have built in receivers for ham radio?


Technically, yes they do.  A standard wifi chip is capable of transmitting & receiving in the nearby ham band (I beleive 70cm band IIRC) and use of these features require a ham callsign to be transmitted with the SSID.  There are two channels available, and are traditionally called Zero and -1, since they are on that side of the unlicensed wifi band.  Unlockling these capabilities, at a minumum requires rooting your phone, though.  In the ham world, this is commonly called the 'Hinternet'.  Google is your friend.

From my perspectives, it's the Ellet that is vaporware.  At a minimum, the Bitcoincard guys have working test models.
You believe this?

I believe that if it's a hoax, it's an elaborate one.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
I know we're off topic, but your initial magazine announcement did claim distribution through Barnes & Noble.  When will I be able to pick up a copy at my local store?  I almost bought some advertising space because of this claim and I'd be pissed if I had.  Maybe "the community" is not the only one who needed to learn.  In the past you have overpromised and underdelivered.  I hope you have learned from these errors.

Thank you for your constructive criticism. We're still working through the long process of being distributed in Barnes & Noble. As was mentioned, the review period is up to 3 months after the first issue is printed. They are already reviewing it and I am in regular talks with the distribution manager for Barnes & Noble's accounts.  The reason nothing is announced is that there is nothing to announce yet. Thank you for the kind words though. We're all looking forward to the already internationally available magazine to be distributed in bookstores as well, even at an almost guaranteed loss to gain exposure to Bitcoin and continue doing our duty. Appreciate the support as always!

Good to hear... now get back to work on the Ellet!
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
I know we're off topic, but your initial magazine announcement did claim distribution through Barnes & Noble.  When will I be able to pick up a copy at my local store?  I almost bought some advertising space because of this claim and I'd be pissed if I had.  Maybe "the community" is not the only one who needed to learn.  In the past you have overpromised and underdelivered.  I hope you have learned from these errors.

Thank you for your constructive criticism. We're still working through the long process of being distributed in Barnes & Noble. As was mentioned, the review period is up to 3 months after the first issue is printed. They are already reviewing it and I am in regular talks with the distribution manager for Barnes & Noble's accounts.  The reason nothing is announced is that there is nothing to announce yet. Thank you for the kind words though. We're all looking forward to the already internationally available magazine to be distributed in bookstores as well, even at an almost guaranteed loss to gain exposure to Bitcoin and continue doing our duty. Appreciate the support as always!
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.711305
I'm glad you printed a magazine, but I think the businesses that paid you for advertising were expecting a little more circulation than a few dozen copies. I have heard nothing more of your plans to get Bitcoin Magazine distributed. I want to believe you, but you juggle so many things without following through that it is hard to see where you are going with your businesses.

This post as well as yours will surely be deleted shortly as they are completely off-topic but I do feel it deserves a response of some sort. The magazine advertisers were in contact with us the entire time. You do not give us much credit for resolving issues and like most in the community assume way too much.

The plans to make a magazine in the first place were mine, but once you have a Board of Directors with experience in distribution, infrastructure, security, etc, you lose your ability to discuss every intimate detail with the open public. I promised that I'd keep the community involved in the direction and content of the magazine, but no one said I had to make it easy for competitors to compete.  Wink
[/quote]

I know we're off topic, but your initial magazine announcement did claim distribution through Barnes & Noble.  When will I be able to pick up a copy at my local store?  I almost bought some advertising space because of this claim and I'd be pissed if I had.  Maybe "the community" is not the only one who needed to learn.  In the past you have overpromised and underdelivered.  I hope you have learned from these errors.
sr. member
Activity: 257
Merit: 250
Not trusting third parties with my private keys
sub.  why is there no way to subscribe to threads without posting?  fix this forum please.
aq
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
But that is the problem, I've actual photos of Bitcoincards.  Granted, still photos can be faked; but I have nothing at all from you concerning the Ellet.
Fair enough. Come back when there are photos. Until then, (advice to others) do not embarrass yourselves again with calling things fake just because of who is developing them. When this comes out and I move on to my next project, is the point going to get across then that I'm serious about what I do and all you need do is wait?
http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/6/8/bitcoincard-in-vienna-day-1-coffee-missing-atms-and-some-tes.html
But of course, this is a conspiracy of Gavin, Charly, Erik, Armir and all other bitcoin celebrities against you.
And I am pretty sure that Bitcoin magazine in those pictures is also faked, or at least an unlicensed reprint Wink

hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
Officially, It wouldn't affect the Ellet at all as the Ellet is intended to be a functional payment device capable of handling -all- relevant payment methods, utilize the infinite amount of existing infrastructure out there, and provide a marketable form factor and feature set that will bring non-bitcoiners into Bitcoin. Bitcoincard seems to be a nerds toy (no offense) with little to no chance of any kind of adoption in a real world environment. Also, given it's supposed form factor, it is more in competition with Casascius coins than the Ellet.

I can agree that your devices don't seem to be in quite the same market, but you do appear to be threatened by their claims.
Not threatened, annoyed by vaporware. Call it overjoy that made me want to announce without a photo, but anyone trying to convince the baker that he isn't baking a cake just because they aren't eating it yet is only going to receive puzzled looks from the baker. If however that baker claims he is baking a cake larger than the oven itself, then you can make some claims and ask some questions (which is what I've been doing to the bitcoincard).

would the Ellet be able to talk the Bitcoincard protocol.  That's the real question.
I don't see how anything standard would be able to talk to that non-standard device. I guess we could go out of our way to add specific hardware to our device that would allow it to talk to bitcoincard, but I don't see any company would do that that didn't have a contract directly with the other company. Put in other words, do iPhones have built in receivers for ham radio?

But that is the problem, I've actual photos of Bitcoincards.  Granted, still photos can be faked; but I have nothing at all from you concerning the Ellet.
Fair enough. Come back when there are photos. Until then, (advice to others) do not embarrass yourselves again with calling things fake just because of who is developing them. When this comes out and I move on to my next project, is the point going to get across then that I'm serious about what I do and all you need do is wait?

From my perspectives, it's the Ellet that is vaporware.  At a minimum, the Bitcoincard guys have working test models.
You believe this?

I saw a youtube video of two such cards (sitting less than a foot from each other, mind you) perform a transaction on video. A transaction that can be verified via the bitcoin blockchain.

I'm having trouble finding any videos other than the one on Vimeo which shows only one device, highly cropped/edited, all timing between transactions obfuscated, no actual provable process, with a laptop that more than likely sent the coins from the client to itself from another computer to simulate the process. I can be skeptical too, but apparently my reasons for being skeptical are the most logical. No photos does not make something vaporware. Fake videos and inviting investors to a 'secret meeting' screams vaporware imho.

I'll be posting later in the week with more information to parties interested in the Ellet. We've made another change to the form factor that I'm sure will assist in its marketability to non-bitcoiners.

Thanks for following!
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1002
I can see that this is just a baiting trolls at this point and will post again here only when there is an update worth sharing with the community. Blatant slander, baseless accusations and further FUD based on individual's opinions of what they think I'm doing will be completely ignored and removed if off-topic.

Thanks!

Just do as I say, Don't do as I do.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
Officially, It wouldn't affect the Ellet at all as the Ellet is intended to be a functional payment device capable of handling -all- relevant payment methods, utilize the infinite amount of existing infrastructure out there, and provide a marketable form factor and feature set that will bring non-bitcoiners into Bitcoin. Bitcoincard seems to be a nerds toy (no offense) with little to no chance of any kind of adoption in a real world environment. Also, given it's supposed form factor, it is more in competition with Casascius coins than the Ellet.

I can agree that your devices don't seem to be in quite the same market, but you do appear to be threatened by their claims.  Would the Ellet be capable of updating it's core software, if the Bitcoincard became the dominate system for bitcoin transactions offline?  Said another way, would the Ellet be able to talk the Bitcoincard protocol.  That's the real question.

Quote

The comments on some threads from some detractors that I'm "scared" of bitcoincard is just not true. I was hopeful, but then did my homework. The claims that I'm "bothered" by it are very true. As I was mentioning on IRC, it always bothers me when vaporware takes center stage over similar new technologies with actual working models. It's just a lesson to future scammers that deceptive marketing and flashy gadgets are apparently the only thing that gets bitcoiners' attention.

But that is the problem, I've actual photos of Bitcoincards.  Granted, still photos can be faked; but I have nothing at all from you concerning the Ellet.  From my perspectives, it's the Ellet that is vaporware.  At a minimum, the Bitcoincard guys have working test models.  I saw a youtube video of two such cards (sitting less than a foot from each other, mind you) perform a transaction on video.  A transaction that can be verified via the bitcoin blockchain.  If the bitcoincard is vaporware, the fog is getting pretty thick.

hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
I can see that this is just a baiting trolls at this point and will post again here only when there is an update worth sharing with the community. Blatant slander, baseless accusations and further FUD based on individual's opinions of what they think I'm doing will be completely ignored and removed if off-topic.

Thanks!
aq
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
...
What would happen to your plans for the Ellet should the claims regarding the Bitcoincard turn out to be true?

Hence the rushed up announcement on his part... The Bitcoincard workshop was coming and he needed to build some hype for his own vapourware as a way to try and fade out the hype for the Bitcoincard vapourware.
I wasn't going to say anything, but after seeing him attacking BitcoinCard, while doing exactly the same thing with this Ellet, didn't felt quite right to me.

But the big difference is that this bitcoincard can be seen on images and videos, while this mnw vaporware seems to exists only mnws imagination. And that seems to make it necessary for mnw to constantly spreading FUD in the bitcoincard thread.
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