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Topic: [ANN] Whirlwind.money | ⚡No Fee⚡ | Ultimate Privacy | Anonymity Mining 12% APR🔥 - page 21. (Read 12718 times)

jr. member
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The bad UX is that since i watched the deposit come in, I shouldnt have to start entering note key on a seperate page (chpmxr style), also the lack of checks to ensure you copied the right thing before proceeding to page 2 (standard practice in crypto pneumonic phrase style)
The page literally says:
In hindsite I should have realised, but they looked soo similar, even started with same letters, so i stupidly assumed it was the same, also new domain doesnt always mean new session, for example fb.me and facebook.com same thing
I guess those rely on third party cookies. You don't want that for anything related to private keys.

This is what I mean when I say all of you signature campaign participants are (obviously) biased and replying in bad faith
Am I biased? People call me Switzerland for a reason.

IS the website made for devs? robots? or humans?  There is a captcha on the page so i guess it was made for humans.
There is a captcha, but there is no verification to make sure you copied the right thing (standard practice in crypto), humans make mistakes

Also why cant you just admit you were wrong about saying that 2 different domains cant share the same session... Why are you all so hell bent on stealing newbies money with plausible deniability Huh

legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
The bad UX is that since i watched the deposit come in, I shouldnt have to start entering note key on a seperate page (chpmxr style), also the lack of checks to ensure you copied the right thing before proceeding to page 2 (standard practice in crypto pneumonic phrase style)
The page literally says:
In hindsite I should have realised, but they looked soo similar, even started with same letters, so i stupidly assumed it was the same, also new domain doesnt always mean new session, for example fb.me and facebook.com same thing
I guess those rely on third party cookies. You don't want that for anything related to private keys.

This is what I mean when I say all of you signature campaign participants are (obviously) biased and replying in bad faith
Am I biased? People call me Switzerland for a reason.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1125
This is what I mean when I say all of you signature campaign participants are (obviously) biased and replying in bad faith

Once again you are accusing us for being straight up with you, some even helping you signing a message and trying to help you understand the whole situation better.
In what way would we be biased towards you not receiving your funds? Since we, as a community, not as a signature holder, have been asked what should be done in such situations, we are trying to come up with the best decision for the service and the community. Just because that is not necessarily the best outcome for yourself, we are not "replying in bad faith" ...
The way you keep attacking the people trying to help you, really doesn't help your case.

For me the only valid argument you brought up is that you can't withdraw the coins even when leaving the browser tab open. I don't know if that is intended or not for a specific reason though.
Mixing up multiple sessions is not a valid argument. If I create two bitcoin wallets, mix them up and only save the key to the wrong wallet, that is also my fault.
jr. member
Activity: 58
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Sir Do you personally think I should be refunded?
I can see a reason to go both ways, so I would probably go with the one that avoids setting a precedent (breaking the "no key = no coins" rule). After all, this is already the case if you generate a Bitcoin wallet and forget to save the private-key.

The bitcoin blockchain never has hosting issues, the bitcoin block chain always verifies the correct pneumonic was saved.


This is what I mean when I say all of you signature campaign participants are (obviously) biased and replying in bad faith
legendary
Activity: 2758
Merit: 6830
Sir Do you personally think I should be refunded?
I can see a reason to go both ways, so I would probably go with the one that avoids setting a precedent (breaking the "no key = no coins" rule). After all, this is already the case if you generate a Bitcoin wallet and forget to save the private-key.
jr. member
Activity: 58
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The bad UX is that since i watched the deposit come in, I shouldnt have to start entering note key on a seperate page (chpmxr style), also the lack of checks to ensure you copied the right thing before proceeding to page 2 (standard practice in crypto pneumonic phrase style)

In hindsite I should have realised, but they looked soo similar, even started with same letters, so i stupidly assumed it was the same, also new domain doesnt always mean new session, for example fb.me and facebook.com same thing

Then totally ignoring my cry for help in my support email, up till now (Day 8!!)

Code:
Hi, I did not download private note key by mistake, I felt since i was still on page all will be ok,

Now deposit is confirmed and there is no where to withdraw, what do i do?

I am still on the page, I am scared to click back to get private note key


Sent with Proton Mail secure email.



I used tor browser for both, I still have the tabs open, even now
I stand corrected. Different domain = different context/session/cookies, though. Still not bad UX or design.


Very bad UX and customer support



I used tor browser for both, I still have the tabs open, even now
I stand corrected. Different domain = different context/session/cookies, though. Still not bad UX or design.

Sir Do you personally think I should be refunded?



I used tor browser for both, I still have the tabs open, even now
I stand corrected. Different domain = different context/session/cookies, though. Still not bad UX or design.

Sir Do you personally think I should be refunded?
legendary
Activity: 2758
Merit: 6830
I used tor browser for both, I still have the tabs open, even now
I stand corrected. Different domain = different context/session/cookies, though. Still not bad UX or design.
jr. member
Activity: 58
Merit: 5
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Now I just think its a new service with horrible customer support and has bad UX by design to facilitate user funds being trapped and also engagement farming. I will DM Mr, Minerjones
Just to be clear to the public: this is just false.

Every different browser or device will give you a new session - this should be obvious. You can't expect a session you created on Chrome to be the same over a different browser (Tor) AND a different domain (.onion). It's definitely *NOT* bad UX or design; it's basic website functioning.

JollyGood is being very reasonable with his replies, you're the one calling your - 100% - own mistakes a "design to facilitate user funds being trapped" a.k.a scamming.

At this point I think you got all the answers you need. Didn't save the private key (as warned on the page) = your mistake = whirlwind is NOT obligated to refund you, nor I think minerjones will (I can be wrong, though). Don't be surprise and don't call that scammy if it's the end result.

I used tor browser for both, I still have the two tabs open, even now

legendary
Activity: 2758
Merit: 6830
Now I just think its a new service with horrible customer support and has bad UX by design to facilitate user funds being trapped and also engagement farming. I will DM Mr, Minerjones
Just to be clear to the public: this is just false.

Every different browser or device will give you a new session - this should be obvious. You can't expect a session you created on Chrome to be the same over a different browser (Tor) AND a different domain (.onion). It's definitely *NOT* bad UX or design; it's basic website functioning.

JollyGood is being very reasonable with his replies, you're the one calling your - 100% - own mistakes a "design to facilitate user funds being trapped" a.k.a scamming.

At this point I think you got all the answers you need. Didn't save the private key (as warned on the page) = your mistake = whirlwind is NOT obligated to refund you, nor I think minerjones will (I can be wrong, though). Don't be surprise and don't call that scammy if it's the end result.
jr. member
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Jollygood you have been replying in very bad faith.

I initially called out whirlwind as a scam because I couldn't rationalise the way they they ignored my very polite support request, members of the forum vouched for it and asked I delete the scam accusation and I did.

Now I just think its a new service with horrible customer support and has bad UX by design to facilitate user funds being trapped and also engagement farming. I will DM Mr, Minerjones

Which other question did I not answer, the minerjones part is not a question by the way, i am surprised you think its a question and i am the one who lives in a society where english is the third language.



~snip~

Also just to note: even though there's no point in doing that the $40k DAI are still in escrow with minerjones and the last time we interacted with him is in this thread when we asked him to announce publicly 7 days in advance when we request our funds back. If you believe you were scammed and we are not being fair to you (and the community as well if they come to the conclusion that you shouldn't be refunded) we suggest you message him yourself and if you're in the right we're sure you will get your funds from him.
stormbounty apart from posting here with impeccable regularity not always addressing questions put to you, try to answer this one:

Apart from posting here do you have any other plans related to your funds not being accessible because you lost your private key? For example, will you be contacting minerjones as Whirlwind suggested? The option is available for you in order to ask him to reimburse you if he concludes you were correct in your assumption about being scammed by Whirlwind.
legendary
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~snip~

Also just to note: even though there's no point in doing that the $40k DAI are still in escrow with minerjones and the last time we interacted with him is in this thread when we asked him to announce publicly 7 days in advance when we request our funds back. If you believe you were scammed and we are not being fair to you (and the community as well if they come to the conclusion that you shouldn't be refunded) we suggest you message him yourself and if you're in the right we're sure you will get your funds from him.
stormbounty apart from posting here with impeccable regularity not always addressing questions put to you, try to answer this one:

Apart from posting here do you have any other plans related to your funds not being accessible because you lost your private key? For example, will you be contacting minerjones as Whirlwind suggested? The option is available for you in order to ask him to reimburse you if he concludes you were correct in your assumption about being scammed by Whirlwind.
jr. member
Activity: 58
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Can you all please just refund me, my personal safety/health is really really on the line, and i'm sorry but i'll chose flooding the thread over being harmed, its been 8 days
First of all, let it be repeated that this is a self-inflicted problem which you created. You created all this mess for yourself because you were incompetent when you mixed your funds.

Your incompetence when you closed the wrong tabs on your browsers have made this process extremely difficult for Whirlwind to deal with because they probably do not want to set a precedent for others to follow especially if in future other Letters of Guarantees could be presented showing/claiming ownership for a transaction they already manually put through on the basis of customers claiming they lost their private keys.

Today could have been the 100th day since you created the problem for yourself by opening multiple browsers with multiple tabs before getting mixed-up when you copy/pasted and closed the wrong tabs. From the perspective of Whirlwind and probably most members here it is irrelevant how many days passed by since your self-made problems. You made a mistake and you were liable for your error and based on your error Whirlwind are not liable to refund you.

Having said that, around 3 days ago you managed to sign an address which was used to send funds to Whirlwind from. Still, maybe they will make an exception in this case even though they are under no obligation to do so because you lost your private key of your own volition.

~snip~

Also just to note: even though there's no point in doing that the $40k DAI are still in escrow with minerjones and the last time we interacted with him is in this thread when we asked him to announce publicly 7 days in advance when we request our funds back. If you believe you were scammed and we are not being fair to you (and the community as well if they come to the conclusion that you shouldn't be refunded) we suggest you message him yourself and if you're in the right we're sure you will get your funds from him.
Whirlwind even offered you the opportunity to go directly to the escrow holding $40,000 (belonging to Whirlwind) if you feel you are being treated unfairly. Have you contacted minerjones to raise a complaint or will you wait for Whirlwind to come to a decision?

They had hosting issues, Whirlwind clearnet had hosting issues, which was why i bothered to use onion instead yes it was largely my incompetence, but their terrible UX contributed, and zero support. I watched the deposit come in but couldnt withdraw.
legendary
Activity: 2534
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Can you all please just refund me, my personal safety/health is really really on the line, and i'm sorry but i'll chose flooding the thread over being harmed, its been 8 days
First of all, let it be repeated that this is a self-inflicted problem which you created. You created all this mess for yourself because you were incompetent when you mixed your funds.

Your incompetence when you closed the wrong tabs on your browsers have made this process extremely difficult for Whirlwind to deal with because they probably do not want to set a precedent for others to follow especially if in future other Letters of Guarantees could be presented showing/claiming ownership for a transaction they already manually put through on the basis of customers claiming they lost their private keys.

Today could have been the 100th day since you created the problem for yourself by opening multiple browsers with multiple tabs before getting mixed-up when you copy/pasted and closed the wrong tabs. From the perspective of Whirlwind and probably most members here it is irrelevant how many days passed by since your self-made problems. You made a mistake and you were liable for your error and based on your error Whirlwind are not liable to refund you.

Having said that, around 3 days ago you managed to sign an address which was used to send funds to Whirlwind from. Still, maybe they will make an exception in this case even though they are under no obligation to do so because you lost your private key of your own volition.

~snip~

Also just to note: even though there's no point in doing that the $40k DAI are still in escrow with minerjones and the last time we interacted with him is in this thread when we asked him to announce publicly 7 days in advance when we request our funds back. If you believe you were scammed and we are not being fair to you (and the community as well if they come to the conclusion that you shouldn't be refunded) we suggest you message him yourself and if you're in the right we're sure you will get your funds from him.
Whirlwind even offered you the opportunity to go directly to the escrow holding $40,000 (belonging to Whirlwind) if you feel you are being treated unfairly. Have you contacted minerjones to raise a complaint or will you wait for Whirlwind to come to a decision?
jr. member
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Well, as far as customer services of any brand or company is concerned, they should send out an acknowledgement email, I think that was already mentioned by more than one member but Whirlwind have explained why they did not send you an email before.

It is possible there may be some sympathy towards you by some members but you are flooding the thread with your issue. Kindly stop flooding this thread and instead have some patience in allowing Whirlwind to deal with the problem you find yourself in. Now you have signed a message using the associated address they will contact you based on that new information.

If you feel the need to express your concerns regarding what you deem to be the lack of customer services you have received from Whirlwind, please refrain from flooding this thread.

I definitely deserve to be refunded, or my support messages replied at the very least @ jollygood


Can you all please just refund me, my personal safety/health is really really on the line, and i'm sorry but i'll chose flooding the thread over being harmed, its been 8 days
legendary
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Well, as far as customer services of any brand or company is concerned, they should send out an acknowledgement email, I think that was already mentioned by more than one member but Whirlwind have explained why they did not send you by email before.

It is possible there may be some sympathy towards you by some members but you are flooding the thread with your issue. Kindly stop flooding this thread and instead have some patience in allowing Whirlwind to deal with the problem you find yourself in. Now you have signed a message using the associated address they will contact you based on that new information.

If you feel the need to express your concerns regarding what you deem to be the lack of customer services you have received from Whirlwind, please refrain from flooding this thread.

I definitely deserve to be refunded, or my support messages replied at the very least @ jollygood
jr. member
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My 2 sats: Even though I completely understand whirlwind’s decision to not deal with people who lost their private keys, I feel like they should at least let the guy knows about this over email.

Something like “As explained on our terms before you sent the coins, we can’t help you if you lost your note’s private key. We are sorry, but there is nothing we can do. This is our last reply about this matter” is enough.
I agree, even it were a simple email from Whirlwind to to acknowledge receipt with a short message, it would look better on their part and to be fair that would be the minimum you could expect from a customer services department of any website. Also, as can be seen using this case as an example, it would demonstrate they have responded rather than leave the sender not knowing if the email was received or not.

In your emails you're also stating things like 'ill qietly go away just pay me my 200$ back' and accusing us of 'farming engagement' with your situation, which is certainly not true and very upsetting to read.
Rightly or otherwise maybe part of the reason Whirlwind did not reply was because the content of the emails (which they received) had some rather ludicrous allegations and comments included.

No, I send that on day 5.

I can publish the content of all the emails here in the thread, I assure you they were all polite.
That last email was sent because I couldn’t understand, why my support requests wasn’t acknowledged.


I NEED PERMISSION FROM WHIRLWINDMONEY TO REPOST ALL MY SUPPORT EMAILS IN THE THREAD

My 2 sats: Even though I completely understand whirlwind’s decision to not deal with people who lost their private keys, I feel like they should at least let the guy knows about this over email.

Something like “As explained on our terms before you sent the coins, we can’t help you if you lost your note’s private key. We are sorry, but there is nothing we can do. This is our last reply about this matter” is enough.

I’m not sure it’s very clear to you all what happened, I went to the clear net link, copied the key, pasted in notepad,entered the captcha clicked next and the page didn’t load (whirlwindmoney has admitted they had hosting issues on the clear net link) and , then I returned to the forum, copied the onion link, just breezed through and entered the captcha because I stupidly assumed the private key would be the same,

 (they looked similar, I’m not very sure but I even think I copied to clipboard, but I didn’t paste to my notepad cos they looked similar so I assumed it didn’t change)

then I deposited to the onion link.

 I still have the clear net private key.


This is the email they didn’t reply till now, yes, still no reply lol

Code:
 

Hi, I did not download private note key by mistake, I felt since i was still on page all will be ok,

Now deposit is confirmed and there is no where to withdraw, what do i do?

I am still on the page, I am scared to click back to get private note key


Sent with Proton Mail secure email.




That is honestly what happened and I despite my stupid decision not to verify the key was the same by going through the letters one by one, I definitely deserve to be refunded, or my support messages replied at the very least @ jollygood



I sent the letter on guarantee 5 days ago, they didn’t even reply to ask about the note key, I was simply ignored. Still ignored , I was very polite in all the emails, all forum posts on day 1, 2 and 3. I even called myself stupid and took the blame, despite the hosting issues playing a part , still they didn’t reply till now.
Why would we reply to ask about the note key? If you had it then you wouldn't have to contact us in the first place. Calling us scammers certainly doesn't help the situation either as you've clearly stated yourself that you made a mistake, and besides that the amount in question is literally tens of times smaller than what we're paying for the signature campaign on a weekly basis so it would make no sense at all to try and scam you.

In your emails you're also stating things like 'ill qietly go away just pay me my 200$ back' and accusing us of 'farming engagement' with your situation, which is certainly not true and very upsetting to read.

Like we said we will leave this situation for the community to decide, if people agree you should get refunded then you will, if they don't you won't. Simple as that, we are not planning to tarnish our reputation for anyone or any amount, much less for someone that can't accept responsibility for his own actions and falsely blames everything on someone else while believing he's entitled to special treatment all at the same time.

From our POV not replying to your emails is completely warranted because if we play by the rules you lose your private key - you lose access to your funds so there's no point to discuss anything. We understand that the communities position is that we should reply even in cases like this and we will do that from now on, but we still fail to see how that would help the user in question. Anyways we'll let the others do the judging and if they are on your side post the refund address here and we will send your funds there.

Also just to note: even though there's no point in doing that the $40k DAI are still in escrow with minerjones and the last time we interacted with him is in this thread when we asked him to announce publicly 7 days in advance when we request our funds back. If you believe you were scammed and we are not being fair to you (and the community as well if they come to the conclusion that you shouldn't be refunded) we suggest you message him yourself and if you're in the right we're sure you will get your funds from him.

So basically the question is, again: should we refund if the user only has the guarantee letter but not the private key, or should we stick to the rule that if you lose the private key you lose access to your funds?
I (still) haven't tested WWM (sorry, I couldn't resist making up this nickname) myself, so forgive me if I ask something dumb, but: what is the point of a Letter of Guarantee if it can't be used as evidence?
The letter of guarantee is useful if any edge cases happen, for example we had a situation in the past days where someone used RBF to bump their fee for the deposit transaction and the new txid wasn't picked up by the system. Other than these very rare edge cases there shouldn't be any situation where you ever have to contact support as long as you have your Note private key and you followed the deposit steps.

Over the weekend we will present the possible upgrades we can do to the system and hopefully this will prevent any situation like the above happening again besides multiple other advantages.


Whirlwind money please refund me, all this wouldn’t happen if you didn’t have hosting issues, don’t totally absolve yourselves. It’s been 1 week. I’ve provided all the proof in the world, do you want my kidneys too?

Btw you still haven’t replied my support request.

This is my refund address 1HN5rj526LePVJ4FCio6YHR9zgZ6Yys1wx
legendary
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My 2 sats: Even though I completely understand whirlwind’s decision to not deal with people who lost their private keys, I feel like they should at least let the guy knows about this over email.

Something like “As explained on our terms before you sent the coins, we can’t help you if you lost your note’s private key. We are sorry, but there is nothing we can do. This is our last reply about this matter” is enough.
I agree, even it were a simple email from Whirlwind to acknowledge receipt with a short message, it would look better on their part and to be fair that would be the minimum you could expect from a customer services department of any website. Also, as can be seen using this case as an example, it would demonstrate they have responded rather than leave the sender not knowing if the email was received or not.

In your emails you're also stating things like 'ill qietly go away just pay me my 200$ back' and accusing us of 'farming engagement' with your situation, which is certainly not true and very upsetting to read.
Rightly or otherwise maybe part of the reason Whirlwind did not reply was because the content of the emails (which they received) had some rather ludicrous allegations and comments included.
legendary
Activity: 2758
Merit: 6830
My 2 sats: Even though I completely understand whirlwind’s decision to not deal with people who lost their private keys, I feel like they should at least let the guy knows about this over email.

Something like “As explained on our terms before you sent the coins, we can’t help you if you lost your note’s private key. We are sorry, but there is nothing we can do. This is our last reply about this matter” is enough.
jr. member
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Also, depending on the size of the funds in question, some cases could be dismissed right away, I mean if Whirlwind thinks it costs $50 to go through all the evidence and the deposit is $30, they can deny the request. (this is common in some centralized exchanges).

Perhaps there could and should be a way to pay for an expedited, extra-attention support answer? It could have all the disclaimers necessary like "paying this doesn't guarantee that support will be able to successfully help you," but it'd certainly give some peace of mind to people if they know that if they have to, they can pay for an answer in just a few hours. Probably would help ramp up business a lot even.

This also would help reduce those issues that go back and forth here for a page or two in Bitcointalk, which really fills up the discussion and obviously should be handled privately via support if it can be.

I already offered 10% of the money , can increase it to 20%



Let's try a side story: Let's say I made a deposit, saved the Letter of Guarantee, and got the note's private key. I safely stored the private key offline.
Then, my computer got compromised, and someone gained access to my empty wallet and the LoG. That person now has the same information stormbounty has, right? He can sign a message from the address used to deposit, and thus prove that "he" paid the address in the LoG. If that's the case, he should not get the money that belongs to my note to which I have the private key. If I'd come back 2 years later and see the money's gone, you'll get a scam accusation.
If they decide to handle requests that way, your hypothetical scenario could become reality and could indeed damage their reputation.
The way you described it, is easily understandable.
Therefore I am currently leaning more towards sticking to stricter rules. Not your keys, not your coins :/

This is day 7 of this, I really wish someone can trust me enough to loan me this money for a month it’s $200
Yesterday you said that you already got a loan for that money. How come you need another loan? At that point you wouldn't care about the outcome of this case anymore and could just log off the forum and never return.
->
I already got a loan to replace the funds, now I have to pay that loan and medical bills.


Dude I live in a very third world country, I don’t have access to the kind of loans you do, loans here are repaid within days, less than a week.




I agree with this, and I believe, most people would, but the concept of Whirlwind is rather new, people can make mistakes, and what stormbounty told as a story sounds very reasonable (whether it's true or not) it's bound tos + the letter of guarantee should be the minimum requirements for any kind of refund, anyone who can't provide both shouldn't be served.
Also, depending on the size of the funds in question, some cases could be dismissed right away, I mean if Whirlwind thinks it costs $50 to go through all the evidence and the deposit is $30, they can deny the request. (this is common in some centralized exchanges).



This wouldn’t have happened, if you can withdraw as long as you are

1: still on the same session/tab after the deposit confirmation.

2: a second step to confirm the right private note key is copied. ( It is unbelievable they didn’t implement this, it is standard practice in crypto, but I guess they are in Beta)

full member
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Also, depending on the size of the funds in question, some cases could be dismissed right away, I mean if Whirlwind thinks it costs $50 to go through all the evidence and the deposit is $30, they can deny the request. (this is common in some centralized exchanges).

Perhaps there could and should be a way to pay for an expedited, extra-attention support answer? It could have all the disclaimers necessary like "paying this doesn't guarantee that support will be able to successfully help you," but it'd certainly give some peace of mind to people if they know that if they have to, they can pay for an answer in just a few hours. Probably would help ramp up business a lot even.

This also would help reduce those issues that go back and forth here for a page or two in Bitcointalk, which really fills up the discussion and obviously should be handled privately via support if it can be.
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