Topic: [ANN] Whirlwind.money | ⚡No Fee⚡ | Ultimate Privacy | Anonymity Mining 12% APR🔥 - page 22. (Read 12760 times)

That is a possible scenario in theory (your assumptions are correct in regards to how the Whirlwind works), but it's a matter of how likely would that happen.? a compromised PC doesn't automatically mean a compromised wallet, how likely it is that someone will secure Whirlwind's note but not their actual BTC wallet? very unlikely if you ask me.



I agree with this, and I believe, most people would, but the concept of Whirlwind is rather new, people can make mistakes, and what stormbounty told as a story sounds very reasonable (whether it's true or not) it's bound to happen to other users in the future, what happens when thousands of people start using the platform and many of them face a similar issue, ya, it's easy to tell them "sorry, we can't do nothing about it", but then think of all the efforts those people would put into ruining your reputation.

There is no perfect solution, but one is likely better than the other, I believe as long as you can help your clients fix their mistakes -- you should do so, at a reasonable fee that would justify your effort and time, there should be a redline of when you have to dismiss such cases, I believe proof of ownership of the sending address + the letter of guarantee should be the minimum requirements for any kind of refund, anyone who can't provide both shouldn't be served.

Also, depending on the size of the funds in question, some cases could be dismissed right away, I mean if Whirlwind thinks it costs $50 to go through all the evidence and the deposit is $30, they can deny the request. (this is common in some centralized exchanges).

If they decide to handle requests that way, your hypothetical scenario could become reality and could indeed damage their reputation.
The way you described it, is easily understandable.
Therefore I am currently leaning more towards sticking to stricter rules. Not your keys, not your coins :/

Yesterday you said that you already got a loan for that money. How come you need another loan? At that point you wouldn't care about the outcome of this case anymore and could just log off the forum and never return.
->

I know it’s a hypotethical, but in my case I posted here within 30 mins of transaction confirmation.

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This is day 7 of this, I really wish someone can trust me enough to loan me this money for a month it’s $200, I’m exhausted, every reply heightens my anxiety, either gives me hope or squashes the my hope, I’m not sure how much longer my body can take the stress, but I don’t have any other options to solve this pressing need.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Although I get and partially understand this, it's also a tricky thing to rely on: at some point you should decide those things on your own, and stand by your decision.

Let's try a side story: Let's say I made a deposit, saved the Letter of Guarantee, and got the note's private key. I safely stored the private key offline.
Then, my computer got compromised, and someone gained access to my empty wallet and the LoG. That person now has the same information stormbounty has, right? He can sign a message from the address used to deposit, and thus prove that "he" paid the address in the LoG. If that's the case, he should not get the money that belongs to my note to which I have the private key. If I'd come back 2 years later and see the money's gone, you'll get a scam accusation.

Disclaimer: this post includes some assumptions because I still haven't tested your site by myself.

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People should really learn to keep the private keys safe. That's all that matters in crypto, if you lose your private key, your money is gone. If it's Bitcoin, it's a donation to everyone. If it's Binance's made-up wrapped Bitcoin, it's a donation to CZ. If it's WWM, it should be waiting for you until the end of time.

I was simply very frustrated, I arrived at the scam conclusion because I couldn’t figure out why I was totally ignored, I remember cross checking the support email letter by letter , maybe I made a mistake and sent a support request to the wrong email. Regarding the farming engagement accusation, it was a (maybe wrong) rational conclusion I could arrive to as to why you ignored me totally as if I was some troll bot, i apologize if you found it offensive but try to put yourself in my shoes, I’m sure you will understand

My refund address is 1HN5rj526LePVJ4FCio6YHR9zgZ6Yys1wx

Thank you.

Good day guys, has a decision been reached please, sorry

Why would we reply to ask about the note key? If you had it then you wouldn't have to contact us in the first place. Calling us scammers certainly doesn't help the situation either as you've clearly stated yourself that you made a mistake, and besides that the amount in question is literally tens of times smaller than what we're paying for the signature campaign on a weekly basis so it would make no sense at all to try and scam you.

In your emails you're also stating things like 'ill qietly go away just pay me my 200$ back' and accusing us of 'farming engagement' with your situation, which is certainly not true and very upsetting to read.

Like we said we will leave this situation for the community to decide, if people agree you should get refunded then you will, if they don't you won't. Simple as that, we are not planning to tarnish our reputation for anyone or any amount, much less for someone that can't accept responsibility for his own actions and falsely blames everything on someone else while believing he's entitled to special treatment all at the same time.

From our POV not replying to your emails is completely warranted because if we play by the rules you lose your private key - you lose access to your funds so there's no point to discuss anything. We understand that the communities position is that we should reply even in cases like this and we will do that from now on, but we still fail to see how that would help the user in question. Anyways we'll let the others do the judging and if they are on your side post the refund address here and we will send your funds there.

Also just to note: even though there's no point in doing that the $40k DAI are still in escrow with minerjones and the last time we interacted with him is in this thread when we asked him to announce publicly 7 days in advance when we request our funds back. If you believe you were scammed and we are not being fair to you (and the community as well if they come to the conclusion that you shouldn't be refunded) we suggest you message him yourself and if you're in the right we're sure you will get your funds from him.

The letter of guarantee is useful if any edge cases happen, for example we had a situation in the past days where someone used RBF to bump their fee for the deposit transaction and the new txid wasn't picked up by the system. Other than these very rare edge cases there shouldn't be any situation where you ever have to contact support as long as you have your Note private key and you followed the deposit steps.

Over the weekend we will present the possible upgrades we can do to the system and hopefully this will prevent any situation like the above happening again besides multiple other advantages.

Alas, you still don't get it, according to their rules they do not have to ask you to sign a message, all this message signing is proposed by community members, which is why I said you need to control your behaviour, because for all we know, they don't have to attend to that.

You are right with only one thing, you deserve a reply from the support team no matter what, given that you have the letter of gurantee.

Why don't they just refund the transaction to the sender address. What is so hard about refunding not mixing?

Five days I didn’t get a reply, five days , I waited 5 days for customer support and still haven’t gotten a reply, 5 Days.

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It was one message to sparrow , asking why their mixer wasn’t working, they replied within 2 minutes and refer me to samurai team, which replied within 10 mins telling me to wait 24 hours and try again, I now decided to use whirlwind instead (no reply after 5 days) all of which happened the same day.



So that makes me an expert?

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The reply should have told me to sign the message, but instead they ignored it , till now, the message signing didn’t have to be done in public in the first place.


A simple reply to my email like “hi stormbounty, we received your message, please sign a message to prove wallet ownership”

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I sent the letter on guarantee 5 days ago, they didn’t even reply to ask about the note key, I was simply ignored. Still ignored , I was very polite in all the emails, all forum posts on day 1, 2 and 3. I even called myself stupid and took the blame, despite the hosting issues playing a part , still they didn’t reply till now.

Let's be realistic, nobody stole your money here, you sent it yourself, nobody asked for you to send anything.
Yes I am telling you that you are wasting time doing something that doesn't make any sense, but you can do whatever you want.
If you can't handle simple things than I am not sure you should be using mixers and bitcoin, since you obviously talk a lot with crypto support teams (CM, samourai, sparrow), so this is not your first rodeo.

Again, NOBODY asked him to send private keys to anyone, so he has a habit of doing stuff like this on his own.

It is very difficult to provide any better advice than this considering the current situation stormbounty finds himself in. The fact he has crossed the line as far as his choice of words are concerned is certainly not helping him. Now that he has managed to sign a message the best thing he can do is to wait a few days for Whirlwind to look in to the matter for him.

The previous days do not count but as he has signed a message, maybe it should start from now.

The count starts today, in the past couple of days all you had is the guarantee letter which doesn't prove much as I explained in my previous post, it's only NOW that you were able to sign the message proving your ownership of one of the coinjoin addresses.

Now, let me clear some things for you, in a perfect world, Whirlwind would spend the time and effort to verify both your letter of guarantee and your ownership of the depositing address, but this isn't a perfect world, they could still ignore you given that you lost your note private key and there was a clear warning not to.

Reflecting on similar situations that happen to centralized exchanges where a user deposits a non-tradable coin or the wrong coin to the correct address, the exchange can still extract those coins but many chose not to do, as that involves time and effort, they already told you to deposit x and you went ahead to deposit y, why should they attend to that for free? so some of them will charge you a fee to fix your mistake, and some of them will just cancel you altogether.

Now it's all up to Whirlwind and how would they want to handle your issue case, in my opinion, they should attend to it, verify the transactions, and charge you a small fee (upon your approval before proceeding with anything), if you refuse to pay the fee, they should just ignore you and dismiss your support ticket, at least this is what I would do.

and now comes the important part, your behavior is not helping, I understand that this money could be all you got, and it's so important for you to get it, but what do you get from calling them names and all that? it will only make things worse for you, after all, they could ignore everybody's opinion, don't bother with checking any signature, and simply stick to their rules which you have agreed upon before using their service, you lost your private key -- your funds are gone.

I suggest you edit your posts, take a deep breath, send the signed message to their email along with the letter of guarantee, and then wait a few days before posting anything.

Thank you so much, it was sparrow wallet, their mixing service was wasting time, sparrow and samourai admins said my internet speed was too slow and that I should wait 12-24 hours to try again so i decided to use something faster (whirlwind.money) I sent from sparrow premix wallet, now here i am, days letter, begging to be treated like a human being that is not very tech savvy.

Verified.

The address above (bc1q7vr2ge5392zp3rwn6q60skp98dlce7au8qaztv) spends its output in this transaction: https://mempool.space/tx/1d686510d1cf9d0f2445fac24b15d8e679f17b0a3291d87c7fc41dc95e4f168b

This transaction is a Tx0 from either Samourai or Sparrow, enrolling the coins in to Whirlpool coinjoin's 0.001 BTC pool. He creates seven such outputs ready to be coinjoined, one change output, and one output paying the coinjoin fee of 5,000 sats. The OP_RETURN output is part of the Whirlpool protocol to allow the coordinator to know which outputs to enroll in a coinjoin.

For some reason, before any of these outputs are actually coinjoined, he instead consolidates them all in a single transaction depositing 0.007 BTC to Whirlwind (bc1qkf6knnzvnu2h47g8wa7h4hx7k3vm8tcqyc27xy), with one additional change output.

I can also verify the signature two posts above from the intermediate address bc1qzfmfzgtwyaqk6l0tedrx8kpe09xmxvs9l4j5ya.

One of the seven wallets: https://mempool.space/address/bc1qzfmfzgtwyaqk6l0tedrx8kpe09xmxvs9l4j5ya

Transaction ID: https://mempool.space/tx/cda4514ee5262e2903b35d2d9030fba0c6bc1897237bb689dda913a447678d49


Signature to PROVE I OWN the 7 contributing wallets too-

Address: bc1qzfmfzgtwyaqk6l0tedrx8kpe09xmxvs9l4j5ya
Sign: HxYrUN2YHIEUbAgpCUCsBhnP6ixWjC4Ev1fqsdbm3pZ5NyQUKDclGKnJVHKISvSP8V7GnPwFhRtuUFb GGfbmIF8=
Message: I suceeded, please help

You really made it difficult to prove anything you did!

Go back one more layer, you will see my address, Like i said in a previous post I used a privacy wallet.

start here please - here it was split to 7-8 wallets
https://mempool.space/tx/1d686510d1cf9d0f2445fac24b15d8e679f17b0a3291d87c7fc41dc95e4f168b

Please check Image for clarity

then example of one of the 8 or so wallets
https://mempool.space/tx/cda4514ee5262e2903b35d2d9030fba0c6bc1897237bb689dda913a447678d49

The signature is verified and the message proves that you own bc1q7vr2ge5392zp3rwn6q60skp98dlce7au8qaztv, but no transaction has been made from that address to bc1qkf6knnzvnu2h47g8wa7h4hx7k3vm8tcqyc27xy.
The bc1qkf6knnzvnu2h47g8wa7h4hx7k3vm8tcqyc27xy has received 0.007 BTC in a transaction including 7 inputs and none of those 7 addresses is the address you signed message from.

Signature: IFLCjMrIJCAbORRE2rbhd3eQ16J2LUCJT3NpDfhFFeogAHpQvQd+2beiXQbqF+0hfnelQJZI+0WwQ7Znbqxt8Q4=

Message: Today is June 29, 2023.  I, user stormbounty on Bitcointalk,  send 0.008 Bitcoin from the signing address to WWM's address bc1qkf6knnzvnu2h47g8wa7h4hx7k3vm8tcqyc27xy Please help.

Address: bc1q7vr2ge5392zp3rwn6q60skp98dlce7au8qaztv





I still have NOT gotten a reply from support 5 days after. and this is what you think?Huh

 sad , this is sad on so many levels, is it because you have money ?? or because you can never make this kind of mistake so it is funny to you?  you now treat people like shit??

Humanity is doomed, you should be ashamed. My suffering is trolling to you?

Please check sir, I have signed the message, what else do I need to do? I thought signing will require money, so I had to add some money (took some minutes to confirm) but in the end it turns out signing is free

 
I am ready to sign the message, I have exported my private key to electrum and have learnt how to sign a bitcoin message, so lets do this once and for all

Who I should I sign to?  to which bitcoin address? What is the message body?



Thank you





Lets see if the customer support is real or just a placeholder, All my support emails remain unacknowledged.

At this point and with the attitude you have shown towards us, I would be surprised if you get this resolved. I feel bad for the people having to deal with this.
You made a mistake. Don't you understand what it means to refund you in this situation?
This is so delicate and yet you behave like this.

Maybe you are trolling after all