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Topic: [ANN][AUTO-SWITCH] Profit-switch auto-exchange pool: CleverMining.com - page 293. (Read 554387 times)

full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100

Hello, I'm right here.


I'm almost afraid to discover what your issue might be (besides shameless self-promotion, which I'm okay with).  Every multi-coin pool operator so far seems to have one and I certainly hope not to find yours, though all I know about yours at the moment is that many people were not impressed with your profitability , so that is where I should probably begin...
member
Activity: 224
Merit: 10

You ask for transparency?  Which multi coin pools detail the trades they make?  Stating a % fee is one thing, but without anyone knowing how much of each coin has been generated and how much it was traded for, who is to know that the % fee stated is actually the amount being taken?



You're right.  Pool operators should provide all of this information to miners, but certainly not on a real time basis as that would have the potential to negatively affect the profitability of the pool.  Should it ever become necessary to audit their claims, all one would need to do is compare their stated results to the the public block chains.  24-48 hour delayed data would likely be suitable to the purpose.

Show me a pool operator who utilizes an efficient profitability algorithm _AND_ makes this data available for all, and I will show you the pool operator who will attract most of the scrypt miners on the planet.


Hello, I'm right here.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100

You ask for transparency?  Which multi coin pools detail the trades they make?  Stating a % fee is one thing, but without anyone knowing how much of each coin has been generated and how much it was traded for, who is to know that the % fee stated is actually the amount being taken?



You're right.  Pool operators should provide all of this information to miners, but certainly not on a real time basis as that would have the potential to negatively affect the profitability of the pool.  Should it ever become necessary to audit their claims, all one would need to do is compare their stated results to the the public block chains.  24-48 hour delayed data would likely be suitable to the purpose.

Show me a pool operator who utilizes an efficient profitability algorithm _AND_ makes this data available for all, and I will show you the pool operator who will attract most of the scrypt miners on the planet.
member
Activity: 224
Merit: 10
Is your BTC/MH calculated on accepted share megahash or accepted + rejected share hash rate?

It's based on accepted shares. I know it's not perfect, but I think it doesn't make sense to base it on accepted+rejected as some malicious traffic flooding with invalid shares might easily skew the numbers. It can't do it when the stats are based on accepted hasrate.


This is interesting, it should probably be noted somewhere because those users with 5-10% rejects will be getting that much less of the estimated daily earnings and probably say wtf
newbie
Activity: 11
Merit: 0
I dont know whats the problem with the fees ..
He can take 99% fee. If you make more BTC/day than on other pools, it doesnt matter!
That would be even great for both sides  Wink
Every info you need to calculate (BTC/hash in 24h, 30d; Profitability and so on) is there.

For me its the best pool for now. Ive tested 5 and the 2nd was just 75% as good and didnt payed that fast and easy.
So good work Terk! Move on  Grin

But an EU server would be nice  Tongue
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Share is above target still happening as a reject as well to let you know. Not sure what that is either
newbie
Activity: 44
Merit: 0
Terk,

Even if you consider yourself a software development guy, you are one with a firm grasp of how to design a web site to draw people in.  In particular, I was keenly aware of the many ever-present repeated "start mining now" banners all over your main page.  You could likely find a second career in the production of porn web sites or infomercials with subliminal undertones should either interest you.  What you do choose to share, you present well.

The reason I decided to write was because as I was taking it all in, I was thinking to myself that here is a pool operator who finally gets what miners want, and then I stumbled upon the secrecy clause, buried deep within the bowels of the web site, hidden out of view seemingly with intention.  One of your competitors obfuscates anything and everything, and never bothers to answer anyone for any reason except that he was first in the game and still thinks he is the only one in town.  Another chooses to ignore tangible data including easily verified block chain data and how it shows that his switching algorithm likely has a correctable operational inefficiency affecting all of his miners, and instead of looking into it he chooses to go back and forth with a 140Kh/s miner on why he is missing his 0.000000002 btc from a single altcoin because his share fell below the eight digit precision to the right of the decimal point.

I don't care what coins I am mining.  I don't care which coins my unexchanged balance is sitting in.  It's largely irrelevant to me until it is converted into btc which is all I care to receive.  I don't need much of the extra data waffle provides, and I am a guy who recognizes that good decisions are based upon good data.  The real problem is, that with the exception of payouts and fees, all other data is subject to being easily fudged and finessed for personal benefit.  All I need is how much the proceeds are from my mining, and how much I pay you to make that possible.  It figures into my opportunity cost calculations.

Profitability is paramount of course, but I have a right to know how much I am paying you for your services.  And I am more than willing to pay more here than elsewhere for exceptional results, over statistically relevant time periods.  Though I strongly believe your 80% secret sauce / 20% luck estimates to be way off base, I am not interested in working though the data to prove it to you or anyone else.  It is a very common mistake to underestimate the effect of luck in short term statistics, and even the data sample size required in order to accurately reflect long term results.  And I believe you are making the very same one.  I don't want your secret sauce, I want to know how much I am paying you to make it.

There is tremendous opportunity in this space, and it will likely pass you by if you do not shore up your shortcomings.  Kudos to h2o.  He was first (I think) and deserves some credit for that.  But you're not second or third, or likely even tenth, but you could be a player if you shore up your shortcomings.  

The relationship between miners and pool operators is a symbiotic one.  If you take more than you give, as a pool operator you will likely find the relationship to be a very temporary one.


You ask for transparency?  Which multi coin pools detail the trades they make?  Stating a % fee is one thing, but without anyone knowing how much of each coin has been generated and how much it was traded for, who is to know that the % fee stated is actually the amount being taken?

Unless I am missing something h2o is not providing these stats for middlecoin, so his 3% fee means nothing to me.

Yes transparency is a great thing to have, but at the end of the day it revolves around profit for the miner (and the pool owner).  If the pool owner is too greedy or his/her algorithms just plain suck then people will walk.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
I know what's causing duplicate shares and I'm working on fixing this right now. It should be fixed in less than an hour.

Great news. Gd work so far. Great support. Just wish my internet wud stop dropping out. There's a problem at the exchange Sad
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 522
I know what's causing duplicate shares and I'm working on fixing this right now. It should be fixed in less than an hour.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Still getting reject duplicate shares. This is server side as I have never seen it on any othet . I you can fix this the reject rate will be loads lower. I already had 2 on each rig so far and 1 reject job not found
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 522
We're back online. I'm sorry for the downtime.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 522
I'm sorry but the pool database needs emergency maintenance causing downtime. Will be back in ~5 minutes.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Loads of rejects saying share is above target. What is this???

I dont know I get a lot rejects saying  " rejected untracked stratum share from pool 0"

I already posted here, I think Terk should be able to look upon this shortly
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Loads of rejects saying share is above target. What is this???
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
We are not pestering him about deciding which fee formula he will use, we are just asking for a disclosure of what fee he is charging/charged. I really dont care, in the short run, if the fee seem completly random, as long as I know that they are reasonable. That is the only non-technical thing I am asking, just put there : past 24h fee/today fee and a fee graph that is not too much and it isn't rushing he to take a decision about future fee's.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Can't you guys leave him alone? Alright, I agree that showing what fees he toke in the past is fair, but please stop pestering him from deciding a fee. This is just getting stupid.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
comeonalready is right in regard to fee disclosure, even if you dont have a properly formula yet and the fee may seem completly random we should know the fee.If you are beeing honest,which I think it is true, not disclosuring the fee is the worst thing, it doesn't build trust
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
agreed. Trade secrets are one thing (coin he is trading), but what customer signs a contract without knowing how much they are paying?  Obviously we are not signing contracts but just as a matter of speech.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Terk,

Even if you consider yourself a software development guy, you are one with a firm grasp of how to design a web site to draw people in.  In particular, I was keenly aware of the many ever-present repeated "start mining now" banners all over your main page.  You could likely find a second career in the production of porn web sites or infomercials with subliminal undertones should either interest you.  What you do choose to share, you present well.

The reason I decided to write was because as I was taking it all in, I was thinking to myself that here is a pool operator who finally gets what miners want, and then I stumbled upon the secrecy clause, buried deep within the bowels of the web site, hidden out of view seemingly with intention.  One of your competitors obfuscates anything and everything, and never bothers to answer anyone for any reason except that he was first in the game and still thinks he is the only one in town.  Another chooses to ignore tangible data including easily verified block chain data and how it shows that his switching algorithm likely has a correctable operational inefficiency affecting all of his miners, and instead of looking into it he chooses to go back and forth with a 140Kh/s miner on why he is missing his 0.000000002 btc from a single altcoin because his share fell below the eight digit precision to the right of the decimal point.

I don't care what coins I am mining.  I don't care which coins my unexchanged balance is sitting in.  It's largely irrelevant to me until it is converted into btc which is all I care to receive.  I don't need much of the extra data waffle provides, and I am a guy who recognizes that good decisions are based upon good data.  The real problem is, that with the exception of payouts and fees, all other data is subject to being easily fudged and finessed for personal benefit.  All I need is how much the proceeds are from my mining, and how much I pay you to make that possible.  It figures into my opportunity cost calculations.

Profitability is paramount of course, but I have a right to know how much I am paying you for your services.  And I am more than willing to pay more here than elsewhere for exceptional results, over statistically relevant time periods.  Though I strongly believe your 80% secret sauce / 20% luck estimates to be way off base, I am not interested in working though the data to prove it to you or anyone else.  It is a very common mistake to underestimate the effect of luck in short term statistics, and even the data sample size required in order to accurately reflect long term results.  And I believe you are making the very same one.  I don't want your secret sauce, I want to know how much I am paying you to make it.

There is tremendous opportunity in this space, and it will likely pass you by if you do not shore up your shortcomings.  Kudos to h2o.  He was first (I think) and deserves some credit for that.  But you're not second or third, or likely even tenth, but you could be a player if you shore up your shortcomings.  

The relationship between miners and pool operators is a symbiotic one.  If you take more than you give, as a pool operator you will likely find the relationship to be a very temporary one.
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
Ok,

I sure dont understand the amount of complain beeing directed to the admin, but let me give you my point of view:

Coin-disclosure:

This is simple non-inteligent, it is like beeing a hedge fund and talking to everyone what you are doing, but wait it is WORST than that, because once you mined it you have to sell it and sell it fast, you cant just leave the coins sitting there for days.This situation would provide easy arbitrage opportunity to other people. I have to agree that a balance disclosure WOULD be useful because you never know how the exchange rate is going to change,so you could have a better estimative of your future BTC,but it provides the same kind of problem of the mining thing .

Fee-disclosure:

I think everyone, incluiding Terk, thinks that it would be better to have a complete fee disclosure but his response(it is somewhere in the thread) is a honest one, and remember you can always change the pool if you dont like your earning. It is not like you are handling a lot of money to a investment banker withou knowing his fee, this is a real differente situation.

I didn't read the bashing thread , but let me add something, of course Terk could be applying a BIG fee, or something "shaddy" like that, but just remember you(and me) have a clear metric of our earning, and I have compared to other multi-pools and the earnings seemed fair. I have analyzed the situation and thought this deserves a shot,this doesn't mean I am going to stay here forever, but the guy can't multiply himself, time is needed and I want to support him until I can judge his work is a more neutral light.

The main reasons I stick to this pool are: Middlecoin is too big,Terk has been real supportive and, at least in my opnion, interested in the growing of the pool ,earnings seem prospective and I like the site.

OFF topic:

Terk could you analyse the rejected shares messages me and other people posted in the previous pages to see if they are normal for multipool?I am not talking about "job not found".

Coin disclsure I understand 100% and agree 100%, he can not disclose this information.

For fees, it is unbelievable that he wants to take a % of profits and not even give a range of fees he is taking.  He expects people to join a pool that right off the bat is being very vague and shady about fees?
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