Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum - page 99. (Read 69394 times)
Please excuse me for a bit while I hold on to my BFL hat very tightly to remind myself not to post what really should be posted in response to some of the complainers. 
A display of remarkable restraint
Sorry guys, but you, as the community, decided on the 1/3 strategy. The majority of the folks that chimed in deemed it would be the best way to handle it and that's what we are going with. It's not only coming up "just now." It was decided on before we started taking orders. It was what YOU chose and I find it incredibly unfortunate that there are people now complaining about it. It is, quite literally, impossible to please everyone, I hope you realize that.
If you want the FIFO method, you should have ordered first and you would be in the 2/3's of the orders that are FIFO (depending on if you're upgrade or new order). Simple as that. If you failed to do that, if you waited or hemmed and hawed and someone got in ahead of you, then that's on you. It was announced when we would be taking orders, the exact date and time, so it's not like it was a surprise, either.
The details for the random, I am trying to solicit the community involvement on how to handle that so it's comfortable for the community. If you want me to handle it internally, I will do that as well, but I wanted to make it a community project. But you guys are dreaming if you think we are going to release proprietary sales figures just for the heck of it. Seriously, what business does that? The only ones are the publicly traded companies that are required by law - otherwise they would not be doing that either.
With regards to the high profile individuals, if we did NOT release them then you people who are complaining about releasing them would now be complaining about "BFL isn't releasing them because they don't live up to the specs!" So again, it's impossible to please some people. We think it is better to release a few units to some devs and media folks to vett and verify that the units exist and do what they are suppose to do, prior to us releasing them en mass to everyone. If you folks that are complaining want to just take our word for it, then that's ok by us as well, but we certainly can't have you complaining that we are lying about the specs because we aren't showing a unit to anyone trustworthy.
Please excuse me for a bit while I hold on to my BFL hat very tightly to remind myself not to post what really should be posted in response to some of the complainers.
If you want the FIFO method, you should have ordered first and you would be in the 2/3's of the orders that are FIFO (depending on if you're upgrade or new order). Simple as that. If you failed to do that, if you waited or hemmed and hawed and someone got in ahead of you, then that's on you. It was announced when we would be taking orders, the exact date and time, so it's not like it was a surprise, either.
The details for the random, I am trying to solicit the community involvement on how to handle that so it's comfortable for the community. If you want me to handle it internally, I will do that as well, but I wanted to make it a community project. But you guys are dreaming if you think we are going to release proprietary sales figures just for the heck of it. Seriously, what business does that? The only ones are the publicly traded companies that are required by law - otherwise they would not be doing that either.
With regards to the high profile individuals, if we did NOT release them then you people who are complaining about releasing them would now be complaining about "BFL isn't releasing them because they don't live up to the specs!" So again, it's impossible to please some people. We think it is better to release a few units to some devs and media folks to vett and verify that the units exist and do what they are suppose to do, prior to us releasing them en mass to everyone. If you folks that are complaining want to just take our word for it, then that's ok by us as well, but we certainly can't have you complaining that we are lying about the specs because we aren't showing a unit to anyone trustworthy.
Please excuse me for a bit while I hold on to my BFL hat very tightly to remind myself not to post what really should be posted in response to some of the complainers.
While random could benefit me since i havent preordered yet, i would think based on order number would give you the best "transparency". Those who were first in line to pay first should be first in line to receive -- however they would make a killing until difficulty adjusts and i understand your trying to split up the hashrate among as many people as possible...
I see where you are going with that. But then on that same line of thought BFL should only release all of the Jalapeno first, then all of the SC Singles, then the SC MiniRigs, you know... to keep it fair.
That is like comparing a new Ferrari that is going to be built, they have taken pre-orders and then when they are close to it being done they tell all the purchasers, "We are going to randomize the release of this new model because it would be unfair for any of the individuals who had their money in the longest to soak up all the pussy and prestige".
To be fair they have stated from the beginning that they were going to do the 1/3rd 1/3rd 1/3rd lottery style distribution for the orders of the 1st month
Do I agree with it ? NO
That's why I did not order !
While random could benefit me since i havent preordered yet, i would think based on order number would give you the best "transparency". Those who were first in line to pay first should be first in line to receive -- however they would make a killing until difficulty adjusts and i understand your trying to split up the hashrate among as many people as possible...
I see where you are going with that. But then on that same line of thought BFL should only release all of the Jalapeno first, then all of the SC Singles, then the SC MiniRigs, you know... to keep it fair.
That is like comparing a new Ferrari that is going to be built, they have taken pre-orders and then when they are close to it being done they tell all the purchasers, "We are going to randomize the release of this new model because it would be unfair for any of the individuals who had their money in the longest to soak up all the pussy and prestige".
I agree on FIFO, but w/e. I'm one of the first in line anyway (or should be), so it really makes no difference to me. There were 300-400 orders placed in the first 24 hours, so my guess is, BFL won't even be shipping out the entire first day of orders when it starts. Who knows though, maybe Josh can give a better idea.
What's the point of this? Reward the people that kiss your ass? Either order numbers order or the original 1/3 process order, but don't just make up a new shipping order now.
You may want to call your state's FTC, the FTC in BFL's state(s) of registration, and the Federal FTC if you are in the USA. They will act on shens such as this and levy fines or file criminal charges, if any apply. At the least, it will send a bigger message than some forum posts and won't take much more effort.
Also, didn't they just hire a COO? Preventing, handling, and resolving issues such as this exactly that person's job. I'd fire the COO of any company where I had leverage who was so ineffective. (Fortunately, I'm more careful with my hires.)
Reeses, meet the new COO:
We will release a few demo units to high profile individuals (not high profile miners necessarily) to check out if we are in the accumulation phase of assembled equipment.
What's the point of this? Reward the people that kiss your ass? Either order numbers order or the original 1/3 process order, but don't just make up a new shipping order now.
You may want to call your state's FTC, the FTC in BFL's state(s) of registration, and the Federal FTC if you are in the USA. They will act on shens such as this and levy fines or file criminal charges, if any apply. At the least, it will send a bigger message than some forum posts and won't take much more effort.
Also, didn't they just hire a COO? Preventing, handling, and resolving issues such as this exactly that person's job. I'd fire the COO of any company where I had leverage who was so ineffective. (Fortunately, I'm more careful with my hires.)
Reeses, meet the new COO:
The plan is still to do 1/3's on the shipping type.
I do want to mine the community here to flesh out my idea for this, though:
I want to use the block chain as the random number generator. Something such as this:
After block X, every block's first Y bits will determine what order number gets their unit in the 1/3 random portion. Obviously, this needs a little work to work out. So I am looking for ideas on how to implement this in a fool proof way that everyone will be satisfied with that we are not gaming the system or somehow twisting it to our own ends.
Keep in mind we will not be releasing any specifics on orders (such as name, order number, etc...) publicly, but only to the people who own those orders, if they choose to publish them here, that is their own business but we won't divulge private information or sales numbers. So the plan needs to work from a blind standpoint.
So I'm looking for comments and ideas from the community that the community itself will be satisfied with and that is as transparent as possible without dipping into proprietary information.
I do want to mine the community here to flesh out my idea for this, though:
I want to use the block chain as the random number generator. Something such as this:
After block X, every block's first Y bits will determine what order number gets their unit in the 1/3 random portion. Obviously, this needs a little work to work out. So I am looking for ideas on how to implement this in a fool proof way that everyone will be satisfied with that we are not gaming the system or somehow twisting it to our own ends.
Keep in mind we will not be releasing any specifics on orders (such as name, order number, etc...) publicly, but only to the people who own those orders, if they choose to publish them here, that is their own business but we won't divulge private information or sales numbers. So the plan needs to work from a blind standpoint.
So I'm looking for comments and ideas from the community that the community itself will be satisfied with and that is as transparent as possible without dipping into proprietary information.
Yes, we will be filling them in order after that.
Keep in mind that I will not release any order until I feel that we have enough orders to ship out to everyone in the first batch. I don't want a few select individuals to end up with the ASIC days or weeks in advance of others. We will release a few demo units to high profile individuals (not high profile miners necessarily) to check out if we are in the accumulation phase of assembled equipment.
Keep in mind that I will not release any order until I feel that we have enough orders to ship out to everyone in the first batch. I don't want a few select individuals to end up with the ASIC days or weeks in advance of others. We will release a few demo units to high profile individuals (not high profile miners necessarily) to check out if we are in the accumulation phase of assembled equipment.
Yea since when do you use an ASIC dedicated to mining for not mining.
to check out if we are in the accumulation phase of assembled equipment.
What on earth can this mean ? maybe another term like the 4-6 weeks, seriously you only been with them for a little while but are already talking crap like them.
...
Devs have remote access to the devices. This can be said of anybody that BFL thinks should have these devices 'first'.
This is quite off putting.
I have yet to understand why ANYONE would think this to be in ANY way an advantage to devs to have ACCESS to these devices.Devs have remote access to the devices. This can be said of anybody that BFL thinks should have these devices 'first'.
This is quite off putting.
I do not see BFL in any nice standing at all with regards to this.
BFL: How can we get people to buy our hardware?
BFL: I know we'll make something that hashes fast.
BFL: Oh hang on we also need software for that.
BFL: I know! We can get the bitcoin miner devs to do that for free.
BFL: Then BFL is happy since people now have a reason to buy their hardware and BFL didn't have to pay anyone to make the software, without which no one would have any use for the BFL hardware ...
I own a BFL single, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna give them a >= 3 month free loan and effectively pay twice the price of a BFL single and get no help from them ... when I have asked about dev issues in the past with regards to the BFL single and they wouldn't answer.
(Apparently, how to upload their bitstream to the BFL is some major trade secret.
And they don't want anyone to know how to do that on linux)
... Yes I am one of the other cgminer devs ...
With Icarus, I was given one for helping with getting the code to work with it and I've been instrumental in having that code work optimally with the Icarus
I will also point out that the best Icarus gain that I did (minimising work lost during a longpoll) was also put into the BFL code ... at my badgering ... by ckolivas ... quite some time after I was considering doing it myself (after I did it for Icarus) but I didn't do it myself due to politics (that no longer exist) and the negative response I got from those 'politics' to doing it at the time
I'd actually like to hear from BFL why they think that someone like ngzhang can directly support the software development the way he has for Icarus yet BFL will not do that for their own hardware
Hell, ngzhang even gave Luke-jr an Icarus simply for being a dev in the vicinity of cgminer ...
As a dev, not having the hardware is a major stumbling block and in my case the FPGA windows binaries I release include only BFL and Icarus coz I have both pieces of hardware ...
I know for a fact that almost all of the other FPGA board developers have financially supported miner development ...
Priority to high profile individuals is a joke. Not happy. 
This was not in the terms of ordering.
This was not in the terms of ordering.
Keep in mind that I will not release any order until I feel that we have enough orders to ship out to everyone in the first batch. I don't want a few select individuals to end up with the ASIC days or weeks in advance of others. We will release a few demo units to high profile individuals (not high profile miners necessarily) to check out if we are in the accumulation phase of assembled equipment.
I don't see why this is unfair. I would happily have BFL send a unit to ckolivas or any other dev to guarantee that when the items do ship, we have software to use them!
Giga getting his TH units first cuz he's a long time customer? Unfair. Sending test units to devs before the release? Totally fair.
Devs have remote access to the devices. This can be said of anybody that BFL thinks should have these devices 'first'.
This is quite off putting.
Sending test units to devs before the release? Totally fair.
there's no reason to send them. Let them work on them remotely as they have been already with the other devices.
Priority to high profile individuals is a joke. Not happy.
This was not in the terms of ordering.
This was not in the terms of ordering.
Keep in mind that I will not release any order until I feel that we have enough orders to ship out to everyone in the first batch. I don't want a few select individuals to end up with the ASIC days or weeks in advance of others. We will release a few demo units to high profile individuals (not high profile miners necessarily) to check out if we are in the accumulation phase of assembled equipment.
I don't see why this is unfair. I would happily have BFL send a unit to ckolivas or any other dev to guarantee that when the items do ship, we have software to use them!
Giga getting his TH units first cuz he's a long time customer? Unfair. Sending test units to devs before the release? Totally fair.
Priority to high profile individuals is a joke. Not happy.
This was not in the terms of ordering.
This was not in the terms of ordering.
Sooooo... they can't fill all of the orders from the first month, to send out in the first shipment...
So, that begs the question, which hasn't been addressed but with a vague word.
Just how many orders will be in that first 1/3? The first 20? The first week?
I got my order confirmed on the 24th, are there going to be so few orders shipped I don't even get in the first shipment, on day #2?
and... 3 weeks ago this was announced? AFTER ALL THIS TIME?
...
WTF.
-- Smoov
So, that begs the question, which hasn't been addressed but with a vague word.
Just how many orders will be in that first 1/3? The first 20? The first week?
I got my order confirmed on the 24th, are there going to be so few orders shipped I don't even get in the first shipment, on day #2?
and... 3 weeks ago this was announced? AFTER ALL THIS TIME?
...
WTF.
-- Smoov
Because of all the influx of people ordering on the first day, I think there were like 1500 orders within 48 hours. I think I read somewhere that the first shipment will be about 500 orders.
We will release a few demo units to high profile individuals (not high profile miners necessarily) to check out if we are in the accumulation phase of assembled equipment.
What's the point of this? Reward the people that kiss your ass? Either order numbers order or the original 1/3 process order, but don't just make up a new shipping order now.
I might just have to order to get my lottery ticket.
Sooooo... they can't fill all of the orders from the first month, to send out in the first shipment...
So, that begs the question, which hasn't been addressed but with a vague word.
Just how many orders will be in that first 1/3? The first 20? The first week?
I got my order confirmed on the 24th, are there going to be so few orders shipped I don't even get in the first shipment, on day #2?
and... 3 weeks ago this was announced? AFTER ALL THIS TIME?
...
WTF.
-- Smoov
So, that begs the question, which hasn't been addressed but with a vague word.
Just how many orders will be in that first 1/3? The first 20? The first week?
I got my order confirmed on the 24th, are there going to be so few orders shipped I don't even get in the first shipment, on day #2?
and... 3 weeks ago this was announced? AFTER ALL THIS TIME?
...
WTF.
-- Smoov
PLEASE stick to this policy :
The initial orders will be grouped into a batch prior to shipment. This will ensure no one is an unfair beneficiary of disproportionate hashing power. Having said this, we only have so much production capacity and the initial order group will still do very very well. That being the case, here are the rules we will stick to in releasing these units.
1/3rd of the units will go in order priority of purchase date.
1/3rd of the units will go to trade in customers.
1/3rd of the units will go to random orders placed in the first month (6/23 - 7/23).
Both priority customers and trade in customers may benefit from random selection prior to their natural shipping order.
The initial orders will be grouped into a batch prior to shipment. This will ensure no one is an unfair beneficiary of disproportionate hashing power. Having said this, we only have so much production capacity and the initial order group will still do very very well. That being the case, here are the rules we will stick to in releasing these units.
1/3rd of the units will go in order priority of purchase date.
1/3rd of the units will go to trade in customers.
1/3rd of the units will go to random orders placed in the first month (6/23 - 7/23).
Both priority customers and trade in customers may benefit from random selection prior to their natural shipping order.
BFL claims they start shipping in October.
Like this page says they really promise.
Though my question is, wich items you are gonna ship first?
Are you guys first gonna ship the Jalapenos and maybe a couple of SC Mini rigs?
For example: as far we can guess it's maybe gonna takes another 4 months after October before you ship the Single SC units, though the shipping started in October alright like promised.
Can BFL give us maybe a little bit clarification on that area?
Thanks.
They said somewhere (no idea where, search the forum?) that they'll ship them all at the same time.Like this page says they really promise.
Though my question is, wich items you are gonna ship first?
Are you guys first gonna ship the Jalapenos and maybe a couple of SC Mini rigs?
For example: as far we can guess it's maybe gonna takes another 4 months after October before you ship the Single SC units, though the shipping started in October alright like promised.
Can BFL give us maybe a little bit clarification on that area?
Thanks.
Here's the policy clarification again:
http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/
The initial orders will be grouped into a batch prior to shipment. This will ensure no one is an unfair beneficiary of disproportionate hashing power. Having said this, we only have so much production capacity and the initial order group will still do very very well. That being the case, here are the rules we will stick to in releasing these units.
1/3rd of the units will go in order priority of purchase date.
1/3rd of the units will go to trade in customers.
1/3rd of the units will go to random orders placed in the first month (6/23 - 7/23).
Both priority customers and trade in customers may benefit from random selection prior to their natural shipping order.
Refunds and charge backs: All sales are final unless we fail to perform. That includes both performance and shipping targets. 60 days past target and we'll happily refund your purchase. If you would really like a refund anyway, just ask and we'll probably be able to take care of you. Nonetheless, we reserve the right to handle it on a case by case basis.
It was in this thread!
As a gpu miner who not order asics... I say ship them all in mid 2013. Anything less is bs
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