What would be "reasonable" call / put numbers to issue vs. to sell?
7 days:
Call: strike (?) , premium (?)
Put: strike (?) , premium (?)
45 days:
Call: strike (?) , premium (?)
Put: strike (?) , premium (?)
90 days:
Call: strike (?) , premium (?)
Put: strike (?) , premium (?)
Any call/put option on a 90 day timeline is going to be a risk - particularly with the type of market manipulation we've seen, unless way out of the ballpark. I guess that's where valuation comes in
Topic: ASICMINER Speculation Thread - page 199. (Read 808768 times)
All I am saying is that newbies/others should not play into it. You want to stop market manipulation like that? don't sell. Don't drop your sell orders and don't follow the manipulator.
you can watch the order books and see it happening, all the buy orders getting filled like that.
And hey, yes, its a free market, and people are going to try it, fine. But, the market should react appropriately and just let them lose their ass on a move like that. You loose a few hundred btc pulling those manipulations, and you stop doing them.
Do not drop your sell orders, and hold your shares.
As far as who did it, I don't know, nor do I care. I have my suspicions, but in the end, it doesn't matter. I just don't want to see a bunch of people get fleeced because of this sort of thing. It is not good for the shareholders.
repeat after me: "I will not drop my sell orders"
you can watch the order books and see it happening, all the buy orders getting filled like that.
And hey, yes, its a free market, and people are going to try it, fine. But, the market should react appropriately and just let them lose their ass on a move like that. You loose a few hundred btc pulling those manipulations, and you stop doing them.
Do not drop your sell orders, and hold your shares.
As far as who did it, I don't know, nor do I care. I have my suspicions, but in the end, it doesn't matter. I just don't want to see a bunch of people get fleeced because of this sort of thing. It is not good for the shareholders.
repeat after me: "I will not drop my sell orders"
I'm talking about what is happening on BTCT, which is what happened last night. It is not the "market" reacting, it is someone diligently going through buy orders all the way to the bottom. and then they wait for newbs to freak out and they buy back cheap shares.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
Do you have proof for this, or just "it went down, and that can't happen unless someone is manipulating!"
It's like anti-FUD
The "average APR" argument is BS since there's absolutely no guarantee of current return holding for more than a month or two. The downside risk is enormous.
I won't give you proof but I know who did it.
I already even explained why they did it.
Yes it was manipulation, but if it was not a bit too high it could not have worked.
Any fair play in this market, if you have balls and a large hand, why not. People should be holding for the long term anyway.
OK, I believe it. Must be a significant player - but I guess there are more people with lots of AM shares around than people with lots of BTC.
I'm talking about what is happening on BTCT, which is what happened last night. It is not the "market" reacting, it is someone diligently going through buy orders all the way to the bottom. and then they wait for newbs to freak out and they buy back cheap shares.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
Do you have proof for this, or just "it went down, and that can't happen unless someone is manipulating!"
It's like anti-FUD
The "average APR" argument is BS since there's absolutely no guarantee of current return holding for more than a month or two. The downside risk is enormous.
In this instance I agree with velacreations. I've noticed manipulation since 3.4 but didn't say anything due to lack of proof. Just looking at the graph and watching it get weird at 3.4. All of a sudden it was being bought up and followed up very thinly, but not even just thin on the way down, they were trying to hold the spread low to induce more buys, and it was thin on the way up but somehow linear like it was being held. Then on the crash it was right back down to basically where it started. Whether was manipulation or not, it's never been so bad. I dunno, not trying to FUD, just saying I noticed something fishy too. Still bullish on AM and still think it's worth the price, or will be again, when we see blade sales and no competition yet in a couple weeks.
Do you have charts where I can see stuff like volume and depth of book over time? All I've got is the crappy graphs on BTCT.
Keep in mind that 1000 shares were just auctioned off at 4.5 BTC. That alone will cause weirdness.
http://www.coinflow.co/chart/ASICMINER-PT
I'm talking about what is happening on BTCT, which is what happened last night. It is not the "market" reacting, it is someone diligently going through buy orders all the way to the bottom. and then they wait for newbs to freak out and they buy back cheap shares.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
Do you have proof for this, or just "it went down, and that can't happen unless someone is manipulating!"
It's like anti-FUD
The "average APR" argument is BS since there's absolutely no guarantee of current return holding for more than a month or two. The downside risk is enormous.
In this instance I agree with velacreations. I've noticed manipulation since 3.4 but didn't say anything due to lack of proof. Just looking at the graph and watching it get weird at 3.4. All of a sudden it was being bought up and followed up very thinly, but not even just thin on the way down, they were trying to hold the spread low to induce more buys, and it was thin on the way up but somehow linear like it was being held. Then on the crash it was right back down to basically where it started. Whether was manipulation or not, it's never been so bad. I dunno, not trying to FUD, just saying I noticed something fishy too. Still bullish on AM and still think it's worth the price, or will be again, when we see blade sales and no competition yet in a couple weeks.
Do you have charts where I can see stuff like volume and depth of book over time? All I've got is the crappy graphs on BTCT.
Keep in mind that 1000 shares were just auctioned off at 4.5 BTC. That alone will cause weirdness.
I'm talking about what is happening on BTCT, which is what happened last night. It is not the "market" reacting, it is someone diligently going through buy orders all the way to the bottom. and then they wait for newbs to freak out and they buy back cheap shares.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
Do you have proof for this, or just "it went down, and that can't happen unless someone is manipulating!"
It's like anti-FUD
The "average APR" argument is BS since there's absolutely no guarantee of current return holding for more than a month or two. The downside risk is enormous.
In this instance I agree with velacreations. I've noticed manipulation since 3.4 but didn't say anything due to lack of proof. Just looking at the graph and watching it get weird at 3.4. All of a sudden it was being bought up and followed up very thinly, but not even just thin on the way down, they were trying to hold the spread low to induce more buys, and it was thin on the way up but somehow linear like it was being held. Then on the crash it was right back down to basically where it started. Whether was manipulation or not, it's never been so bad. I dunno, not trying to FUD, just saying I noticed something fishy too. Still bullish on AM and still think it's worth the price, or will be again, when we see blade sales and no competition yet in a couple weeks.
I'm talking about what is happening on BTCT, which is what happened last night. It is not the "market" reacting, it is someone diligently going through buy orders all the way to the bottom. and then they wait for newbs to freak out and they buy back cheap shares.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
Do you have proof for this, or just "it went down, and that can't happen unless someone is manipulating!"
It's like anti-FUD
The "average APR" argument is BS since there's absolutely no guarantee of current return holding for more than a month or two. The downside risk is enormous.
I'm talking about what is happening on BTCT, which is what happened last night. It is not the "market" reacting, it is someone diligently going through buy orders all the way to the bottom. and then they wait for newbs to freak out and they buy back cheap shares.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
That kind of market manipulation is unhealthy, and I'm saying, folks, stop with it. Don't fall into the trap and fill sell orders. If you want to sell, set a price and leave it. Don't go chasing the manipulators' tail, cause you are gonna get fleeced.
This has nothing to do with fundamentals (strong, btw, look at the average APRs), and everything to do with scare tactics and market manipulations.
You know how to fleece the manipulators? Don't sell. That's how they lose.
And that's not hype, it's the truth, folks.
again with the market manipulation and scare tactics? guys, just relax, and stop filling buy orders.
Or, sell your shares and write me puts. Premium is 0.32, Strike 3.5, exp ~90 days. That's a better return than you'd get from dividends and unless the share price goes below 3.5 BTC, you're safe. Even if it goes to zero you'll lose less than you would have by holding shares.
Plus, a share of AM for 3.5 BTC is cheap, right?
PM me if you want to write puts.
NB: For the last 68 pages of this thread nobody ever said "guys, just relax and stop overhyping the stock"
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2643382
It was at 5 and I was saying to stop and cool down a while.
I'll say it in your words now though. Guys, just relax and stop overhyping the stock. It's at a good spot right now and not undervalued and shouldn't be hyped. Chill and wait for Friedcat and/or blade sales.
It is true that your bullish sentiment has been a lot more moderated than other people here.
The question, as ever, is how fundamentals are going to translate to share price - especially considering that information about the fundamentals is scarce at best.
1 BTC of share price wobble should not constitute "panic" for anyone that didn't buy at 5 BTC, if a 40000% runup isn't automatically a "bubble". Realistically, if the ~4.5BTC level is an adjustment and not a dead friedcat bounce (
), that is a good sign for AM, since it's a termination of the parabolic trajectory that doesn't involve everyone losing their ass.In other words: you need people selling right now, or the next time there's a shake-up, there are going to be so many weak hands still holding that the share price will end up in the toilet.
Meanwhile, my outlook for 90d puts is unaffected. If the Avalon chips ship on schedule and KNC delivers, things are going to get interesting (~+500TH and cheap alternative hardware). If they don't, my losses are modest.
again with the market manipulation and scare tactics? guys, just relax, and stop filling buy orders.
Or, sell your shares and write me puts. Premium is 0.32, Strike 3.5, exp ~90 days. That's a better return than you'd get from dividends and unless the share price goes below 3.5 BTC, you're safe. Even if it goes to zero you'll lose less than you would have by holding shares.
Plus, a share of AM for 3.5 BTC is cheap, right?
PM me if you want to write puts.
NB: For the last 68 pages of this thread nobody ever said "guys, just relax and stop overhyping the stock"
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2643382
It was at 5 and I was saying to stop and cool down a while.
I'll say it in your words now though. Guys, just relax and stop overhyping the stock. It's at a good spot right now and not undervalued and shouldn't be hyped. Chill and wait for Friedcat and/or blade sales.
Well actually just thought about that in reverse now ha-ha
If your all so overhyped do the calls
Premium is 0.32, Strike 4.5, exp ~90 days. That's a better return than you'd get from dividends and unless the share price goes above 5 BTC
^_^ for the rest of the market
But Vycid's are real offers mine are just for show today
(Assumed dividends avg 0.02 for 13 weeks hehe)
If your all so overhyped do the calls
Premium is 0.32, Strike 4.5, exp ~90 days. That's a better return than you'd get from dividends and unless the share price goes above 5 BTC
^_^ for the rest of the market
But Vycid's are real offers mine are just for show today
(Assumed dividends avg 0.02 for 13 weeks hehe)
again with the market manipulation and scare tactics? guys, just relax, and stop filling buy orders.
Or, sell your shares and write me puts. Premium is 0.32, Strike 3.5, exp ~90 days. That's a better return than you'd get from dividends and unless the share price goes below 3.5 BTC, you're safe. Even if it goes to zero you'll lose less than you would have by holding shares.
Plus, a share of AM for 3.5 BTC is cheap, right?
PM me if you want to write puts.
NB: For the last 68 pages of this thread nobody ever said "guys, just relax and stop overhyping the stock"
again with the market manipulation and scare tactics? guys, just relax, and stop filling buy orders.
90% of ASICMINER shares aren't even on exchanges.
I read that stat earlier today -- I had no idea. Imagine!
So let's call it a 9:1 ratio?
Let's
So to all you "Investors" that keep claiming 5 BTC is low, why aren't you snapping up all these shares?
At the risk of being cheeky, they aren't snapping up the shares because they dumped them all at 4.7-4.9 yesterday.
I disagree with your statement that share price won't drop to 4.5 once it passes 5; all I can see are those "hold, spartans!" memes on /r/Bitcoin when BTC/USD was $200+.
I should also mention that I'm not trying to antagonize people by being pessimistic. The "sky's the limit" crowd is a mixture of (a) genuinely optimistic investors, and (b) people trying to keep the price high while they cash out. Devil's advocates are necessary in times like these 
Care to take a guess as to the (a):(b) ratio?
90% of ASICMINER shares aren't even on exchanges. I think the owners of this 90% can largely be presumed to be genuinely optimistic investor types. If we wanted to be overly pessimistic, we could presume that any shares that are moved to an exchange was done so (at some point) for the express purpose of selling them.
So let's call it a 9:1 ratio?
-helixone
What a day. I managed to snag some TAT.ASICMINER at 3.5, but my ASICMINER-PT buy order was not filled during the day 
What worries me is that Havelock Inv. is still down. I hope they can fully recover from that DDOS...
What worries me is that Havelock Inv. is still down. I hope they can fully recover from that DDOS...
Thank you! I don't know how to switch to candles but it's a huge improvement anyway.
Candles are on the TODO list
The change in share price over the past day should be enough to show that AM's share price has nothing to do with the actual value of the company and is entirely dependent upon speculators.
Everyone saying that AM is overpriced is correct, and the volatility of the share price just shows that.
Everyone saying that AM is overpriced is correct, and the volatility of the share price just shows that.
Really ? I would say the past day was exactly opposite what you are saying
It's mostly noobs panicking. I wish I had the time (and some meaningful capital) to participate every time!
The biggest issue really is the lack of liquidity. Only ~10% of the outstanding shares are on exchanges, and share orders are even thinner yet, and spread across 3 exchanges. (Buy or sell).
IE: One could put in a $15,000 buy or sell market order, and move the AM price by over 0.5 btc in either direction, which translates to a $16 million change in market cap!!
This has nothing to do with valuation, or bubbliness, this security is just thinly traded (across multiple exchanges) and market orders have an oversize impact.
We really need market makers providing liquidity as specialists, who are mandated to provide a certain amount of liquidity, NYSE style, but I fear the closest we will ever get is traders posing as MMs ala NASDAQ-style. Another challenge I think, is the 24 hour nature of these exchanges. Traditional MMs need to sleep, and would never dare leave up open orders, when they aren't actively trading. Hmm. thinking about it further, I suspect that we do have traders acting as unofficial-MMs during some arbitrary daylight period, but when they sleep the prices are moving like "after hours trading" on a tradition exchange. IE: very volatile.
Bear this in mind, when trading any of these securities, because AM is currently probably one of the most heavily trade bitcoin-assets.
-helixone
Thank you! I don't know how to switch to candles but it's a huge improvement anyway.
So to all you "Investors" that keep claiming 5 BTC is low, why aren't you snapping up all these shares?
At the risk of being cheeky, they aren't snapping up the shares because they dumped them all at 4.7-4.9 yesterday.
I disagree with your statement that share price won't drop to 4.5 once it passes 5; all I can see are those "hold, spartans!" memes on /r/Bitcoin when BTC/USD was $200+.
I should also mention that I'm not trying to antagonize people by being pessimistic. The "sky's the limit" crowd is a mixture of (a) genuinely optimistic investors, and (b) people trying to keep the price high while they cash out. Devil's advocates are necessary in times like these
Care to take a guess as to the (a):(b) ratio?
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