Topic: Avalon Store Batch 3 Status just went to "Refund Processing" - now "Completed" - page 12. (Read 19778 times)

There is no cake.

Don't we all... Actually I need the btc price to go a little higher first, but timely refunds would  still be appreciated.

It has been just under a month since I submitted a refund request via their ticketing system (I also used the google docs form). No updates on the ticket and my order is still "refund processing".

I hope they finish processing it soon, I've got plans for those bitcoins.

Anenome5 - I have updated your handle in the OP.

Buying from the exchanges is an interesting thought.  There has been some upward pricing pressure lately.  I would guess they have between 2,000 to 5,000 BTC to refund.

Is it worth considering a Class action against Bitsyncom in the USA ? It would be fucking awesome to convict Yuffie of several accounts of fraud.   

It's not really that odd if you know how a bitcoin tx works, and if you look at the times it was actually done in two installments apparently. There was a 30 min time gap between first and the last ones, but the last three were simultaneous, meaning they came from a wallet that split into 3 payments because it was emptying sub-addresses and the like within an existing wallet, change, etc. Not that unusual at all. The 30 minute time gap after the first is a bit unusual perhaps. I don't know if it's very likely that that would happen automatically from a single transaction.

Also they could've just bought the bitcoin on an exchange, coming from multiple sellers essentially, and sent it to me from there, dunno.

Yes, jspielberg is what I referred too.

It's very odd you got your refund in 4 installments.

Like they have to scrounge for coins from different wallets

Running low on BTC? :-)

Just want to point out for the sake of anyone trying to do a thread search that you've misspelled my pseudonym, two-N's, one M.

Quite possibly. I read the email, contemplated the numbers, and decided to do it. I also had all the information quickly and easily available to me, finding it didn't take long. Still boggles me that I'm the only confirmed refund. I'm thinking they started doing refunds then got flooded with way more requests than expected and something 'came up' which demanded attention. Some communication from them on what's going on would be huge. Why can't these companies seriously spend 5 minutes at the end of the day to type up a 1 paragraph status update. I would do that daily if I were them.

Nah dude. That's a fresh receiving address I created for the refund, thus the label on it, that's been used with no one else and was public nowhere previously. It could not have been anyone but Bitsyncom. Nor was I expecting any other transactions. It was for the amount paid for a 4-unit in total. If random people are just sending out 101+BTC to non-public addresses that's news to me.

Edit: He must mean jspielberg who thought he got a partial refund but confused it with other traffic. That can't have been the case with me however.

Anenome5. He attached screenshots of the transaction for proof. See earlier in this thread. So far, he's the only one who has received a refund. My assumption is that he got it so quickly because he happened to fill out the form RIGHT when Yifu sent out the newsletter. Yifu was probably still around/online, and therefore able to send it out quickly.

As always, pure speculation

The issues:

* Avalon stated the would not premine, would not mine with clients equipment and would test (burnin) on testnet.  

Unfortunately this turned out to be a blatant lie.

see here for further details.

* Avalon claimed numerous delays, sabotage, yifu not getting enough beauty sleep and supply issues.  

Turned out many of the orders being delivered had a thick layer of dust in them while others had none. This indicates the dust filled machines have been running for some time (dust accumulates inside PC cases when fans are running). So the delays were also bullshit.

* More delays, piss poor communication and a touch of bitchiness from Yifu soured opinions and faith in Avalon to the current point.

Surprise, Yifu's good will ran out so he turns into another BFL_Josh.

* Avalon offered refunds for batch #3 clients (thanks for the interest free loan suckers).

But unfortunately it seems unless you filled in a specific google doc  not mentioned in any of the support requests clients have logged before an arbitrary deadline your refund will be refused.

* Avalon stated that trade-in customers would be specially treated compare with batch#2 customers in April's newsletter.

Reality is, yes, they were treated specially, but, specially delayed more than even batch#3 customers.

* Avalon also stated trade-ins would be first (citation needed)

But those who did trade-ins have been waiting, most with over 3 months in lost Icarus mining revenue. (Approximately 3.5 BTC per device)
[/quote]

Added the point about the icarus trade ins.

which documented case? The only one I saw was somebody who received a transaction from
somebody else and confused it for a refund

has anyone else received a Batch 3 refund except the one documented case above

While we're on the topic of lying, they also stated trade-ins would be first, but those who did trade-ins have been waiting, most with over 3 months in lost Icarus mining revenue. (Approximately 3.5 BTC per device)

You buy a new product from an manufacturer. As long it's not declared as used, you can expect that the manufacturer only checks the product for functionality, short term QC Test of single components and the assembled product. For long time tests the manufacturer has to take a sample from an batch or a prototype, that sample has to be tested under hard conditions. This will prove if that product/the design and the manufacturing process fulfills the quality standards. This samples will not be sold to any customer, the manufacturer will keep it. The product the customer gets is new, it was checked for functionality, but not used . You will have warranty for this product from the manufacturer. That means even if "QC" is passed, and the product get broken related to an problem during manufacturing, the manufacturer has to replace the product.

But let's take a look how the world would look like if companies would do their "QC" like BitSyncom. Your new car would come with 3000 miles on the meter, but it's still new and just tested. That car was used to transport the employees of the manufacturer to work and back home, for what the company should invest in gasoline just for testing, it would be a wast of resource. Some cars come with 40000 miles on the meter, they were used for the long term "QC". The navigation system has still the route from the employees home to their factory in memory. Your new computer will now be shipped with World of Warcraft pre-installed. That computer was carefully tested. Therefore the manufacturer hired some guys to farm gold in MMORPG's for weeks. These manufacturers really care about you and the environment. They want to deliver a carefully tested product and use resources in an efficient way to protect the environment.

^I'm not sure I follow that last post there, but have to agree with mem.
There is no confusion, Yifu lied (or has no control over his employees which is just as bad if you're running a business) about where he would mine to test the hardware.  Now he (well, technically Avalon) has both the initial payments (minus costs), plus the money mined with the equipment produced with those initial payments.

To be clear I have no problem with Yifu/Avalon making a profit, even a large one.  They were first to the market and deserve the spoils.  But the way customers have been treated is unacceptable, apparently there are still some Batch 1 Avalon's to be delivered (going from memory here so I could be wrong).  Assuming it's just a stock availability issue (again, could be wrong as I know there have been payment issues) delayed batch 1 customers should have received the first of the batch 2 units imo. Then depayed batch 2 customers get the first batch 3 units...

I'm also not sure how lying about whether you have a horse make you a criminal... 

cow --- to test equipment that has not been verified to work and has not been assigned an owner, for 24 hours under realistic conditions, then proceed to assign and ship it.
bull --- to run equipment that has passed QC and assigned to a customer for the sole purpose of gaining BTC.
moth --- to ship unreliable equipment that may catch fire.

Nice story, unfortunately it does not apply here.
Yifu insisted several times quite adamantly they did not use clients equipment to mine nor did they mine themselves. This is a blatant lie, there is no excusing it or explaining it as a misunderstanding. Further more he and his company were mining to the detriment of their investors, showing an absolute lack of respect for the very people that helped bank roll his company.

The stated they would not mine on main net, it has been proven without a doubt they do and continue to do so.

This is not a case of "did you mine ?, yes but with other hardware".
This is a case of "we mined using client/investor funded hardware before the client/investor had a chance of earning their ROI.

This is not a case of a language barrier.
where poor Yifu assumed that all the start up capital he was provided with was for him to piss away at his discretion and the greedy clients were asking for the moon when told they would get a working ASIC delivered in N Months.

Yifu has revealed himself to be someone who lies to anyone whenever it is convenient and as such no longer has the credibility to be trusted further. 

Lets compare apples to apples for a moment here.

Yifu while being good ar PR has been proven to be a a liar and depending on your view of things a thief. 

BFL_Josh An Angry, aggressive and outspoken individual who I believe has been conned into being the bigger fool for sonny. That being said, I have yet to catch Josh out in any blatant lies at worst he could be said to be an asshole who is blindly and fatally optimistic about his companies performance.

It truly saddens me, BFL had set the bar so low that I felt avalon could only go up - boy was I shocked when Yifu decided to 1 up BFL_Josh in douchebaggery.

Yes, it is a simple way to view the situation.

There is a story in Texas that a Ranger asked a man, in broken Spanish, if he had a horse.  The man said no, and the Ranger shot him dead as a liar and a criminal.  It turns out that the man was innocent and had answered truthfully.  There is still bad feeling along the border about this incident.  In Spanish, there are two words;  the analogy that carries into English is asking a man if he has a bull, and then shooting him because he has a cow and answered "no."

As to ownership, here are some choices: 
1.  The ownership is not defined until the machine passes QC, then it belongs to the assigned customer.  The customer gets a working machine no matter what manufacturing difficulties arise.  The quality variance is small, the time variance is high.
2.  The ownership is assigned early, perhaps as soon as the parts for one single board are identified.  The customer gets whatever is made, working or not.  The time variance is small, the quality variance is high.

No one can make the quality and the time variance both small.

What the community can do, however, is be so vocal and demanding that venture capitalists, who are risk adverse; and entrepreneurs, who do not know how long innovative things will take, both view the bitcoin arena as high risk.