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Topic: BETI: Bitcoin Exponential Trend Index and technical analysis - page 11. (Read 110414 times)

jr. member
Activity: 32
Merit: 1
a:   0.003332
b:   -0.133646

jl2012

thank you for the intriguing thread. 

i think people should consider the worst case black swan BETI -2.0  and not always look for BETI +2.0.

just the post above me by user vit05 shows people only look at expected gains but not expected losses.



i have the same question mararn1618 asked about daily values for a and b.

i tried modeling my own table in excel of prior dates and BETI values, before i also realized i was using your static regression parameters.

i see that a = slope; b = intercept, but don't quite follow what i am to do.

what is the formula that i can compute a and b daily myself for any given date?

or would be willing to share a table of historical a and b values?

thank you.

hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 526
 $ 8658 but the price right now is $6215

This is unexpected. We are again well below the price and far from what could be considered a bubble by following the parameters. I imagine that we will have a great rise at some point to stay close to the values that are expected.
legendary
Activity: 1453
Merit: 1011
Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks
what if its the whole crypto currency market that counts for BETI nowadays? alts are taking a way bigger marketshare than previous bubbles.

I tend to wonder this as well. I could see this being more accurate if bitcoin held closer to 100% market share.  Any thoughts to this?

BR
jr. member
Activity: 49
Merit: 6
what if its the whole crypto currency market that counts for BETI nowadays? alts are taking a way bigger marketshare than previous bubbles.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
Data points:   2751
BETI ATL   -2.229
BETI ATH   1.868
   
Date:   2-Feb-2018
BETI:   -0.017
VWAP:   8409.31
x:   2,757
a:   0.003332
b:   -0.133646
Rsq:   0.844363
Expected price:   8552.27
Actual price / expected price:   98.33%
BETI ATL price:   920.76
BETI ATH price:   55366.22
Expected date:   27-Jan-2018
# of days ahead:   -5.06
Daily VWAP rank:   69
Next expected price:   8580.82
   
   
   
   
Real-time expected (BETI 0) price   https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=e+%5E+(+0.00333246202503819++(+number+of+seconds+since+jul+17,+2010+12pm+UTC%2F86400%2Fseconds+)+-0.133646037590367+)
   
Real-time BETI   https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=ln(BTC%2FUSD)-(+0.00333246202503819++(+number+of+seconds+since+jul+17,+2010+12pm+UTC%2F86400%2Fseconds+)+-0.133646037590367+)
   
   
   
-2.25   901.40
-2.00   1157.42
-1.75   1486.16
-1.50   1908.27
-1.25   2450.27
-1.00   3146.20
-0.75   4039.81
-0.50   5187.21
-0.25   6660.51
0.00   8552.27
0.25   10981.33
0.50   14100.31
0.75   18105.15
1.00   23247.47
1.25   29850.35
1.50   38328.61
1.75   49214.90
2.00   63193.19
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
yeah looks as we will go negative (or already were 7500 low).

he uses daily average price (VWAP), so it does not matter much where the low was.
polo shows 7900, not sure where 7500 was ( I wasn't there Wink )
Average for today might be 8500-8600 or something which is almost precisely zero.

Yes you are correct - the low was a bit less then 7800 (i was only watching the cmc graph after waking up).

Regarding the VWAP and BETI if we use the past numbers then 7800 would be in the negative BETI area!
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 4331
yeah looks as we will go negative (or already were 7500 low).

he uses daily average price (VWAP), so it does not matter much where the low was.
polo shows 7900, not sure where 7500 was ( I wasn't there Wink )
Average for today might be 8500-8600 or something which is almost precisely zero.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
yeah looks as we will go negative (or already were 7500 7800 low).
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
Data points:   2750
BETI ATL   -2.229
BETI ATH   1.868
   
Date:   1-Feb-2018
BETI:   0.079
VWAP:   9222.28
x:   2,756
a:   0.003332
b:   -0.133658
Rsq:   0.844221
Expected price:   8524.02
Actual price / expected price:   108.19%
BETI ATL price:   917.71
BETI ATH price:   55183.37
Expected date:   24-Feb-2018
# of days ahead:   23.63
Daily VWAP rank:   67
Next expected price:   8552.48
   
   
   
   
Real-time expected (BETI 0) price   https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=e+%5E+(+0.00333247535531788++(+number+of+seconds+since+jul+17,+2010+12pm+UTC%2F86400%2Fseconds+)+-0.133658310144118+)
   
Real-time BETI   https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=ln(BTC%2FUSD)-(+0.00333247535531788++(+number+of+seconds+since+jul+17,+2010+12pm+UTC%2F86400%2Fseconds+)+-0.133658310144118+)
   
   
-1.00   3135.81
-0.75   4026.46
-0.50   5170.08
-0.25   6638.52
0.00   8524.02
0.25   10945.06
0.50   14053.74
0.75   18045.36
1.00   23170.70
1.25   29751.77
1.50   38202.02
1.75   49052.37
2.00   62984.49
2.25   80873.68
2.50   103843.87
full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 110
We're touching BETI 0:

Finally...... i thought it would never happen and have bought back some at BETI 1.3, guess i was too early!!!!
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 4331
any updates?

beti zero coming, then  2.0

many people think similarly Wink
Not sure if it means it's more or less likely, but it could be like in 2013, if it happens.

legendary
Activity: 1639
Merit: 1006
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
any updates?
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 500
Stake & Vote or Become a IoTeX Delegate!
BETI touched zero I think or close to it, I think we need a stronger bounce to avoid the bear. I am looking for strong push above 14500 before i think we are going to ath any time soon.
The low was more than 1000$ above the BETI expected price.

The BETI is so accurate for me. True enough, we really felt the decrease and increase of value.hoping that BETI of 1st quarter of 2018 will be better.
hero member
Activity: 496
Merit: 500
Spanish Bitcoin trader
BETI touched zero I think or close to it, I think we need a stronger bounce to avoid the bear. I am looking for strong push above 14500 before i think we are going to ath any time soon.
The low was more than 1000$ above the BETI expected price.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
BETI touched zero I think or close to it, I think we need a stronger bounce to avoid the bear. I am looking for strong push above 14500 before i think we are going to ath any time soon.

I think that a slower recovery is more sustainable than a fast one. So I think that the recovery is just fine so far. But yeah, we'll have to wait somewhat longer for the confirmation that we're out of the woods.

In my opinion BETI would fall below zero only in case of some negative fundamental developments that would make investors seriously question the future of Bitcoin. But no one can predict that.
legendary
Activity: 1639
Merit: 1006
BETI touched zero I think or close to it, I think we need a stronger bounce to avoid the bear. I am looking for strong push above 14500 before i think we are going to ath any time soon.
newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
first post here after lurking for a while..this very interesting thread and interesting BTC times (current bubble) have compelled me to post though Smiley..

A thought: perhaps the underlying assumption of a log-linear relationship (log price, linear time) is incorrect and the time axis is also participating in a non-linear manner. For example, as BTC network/ecosystem gets larger and larger, the frequency of the swings and moves will also get farther and farther apart (because of that relatively increasing inertia as we move forward here.) Also the moves themselves (including the bubbles) will get drawn out over a larger time frame. If the previous bubble went through its parabolic rise in a week, for example, perhaps the next one would take all of a month (again as an example). Of course I do agree that absolute prediction is a ridiculous prospect - all kinds of random events can influence and there are different aggregates of rational and irrational behavior in the market as a whole at any given time.

Another thought: considering that the entrance of alternative cryptocurrencies is dissipating and perhaps will increasingly dissipate some of the energy in bitcoins successive bubble phases (such that the peaks of this and subsequent bubbles will be at lower and lower BETI values as a result of some of that cap being eaten up by the growing ETH's, BCH, LTC's and the like...i'm not saying zero sum game, all boats are going to continue rising here..but perhaps there is a resulting effect of dampening the acceleration somewhat..

Finally in concert with the thoughts above...I would argue that the periodic irrational 'bubble' phases that occur diverge wildly from the "true value" of bitcoin at that given point in time to a drastic extent (not a controversial point.) When it then eventually corrects back to the "boring lows", it is reasonable to assume that it is gravitating back to a more reasonable estimate of the "true value" growth of bitcoin at that point in time. If you just take these intervening periods when the world at large forgets about bitcoin for a while, there is still good growth, but the slope of this trend is very definitely NOT linear...as time goes on the trend of the 'lows', or what I am saying is an analog of a market assessed 'book value' of bitcoin, more resembles a sideways parabolic trend as shown in the image below.

http://i68.tinypic.com/29wo8s4.png

If this updated assumption is accepted the previous bubbles then get corrected BETI values in the range of 2.4 to 3.2 (difference of Ln price and the parabolic). Using these values in the current bubble phase we are in right now gives estimates of:

BETI ATL (2.4) = approx $19,800
BETI ATH (3.2) = approx $47,900

So in this model, we could already have hit the current bubble peak (presuming we top out at BETI ATL) and we are now beginning our protracted correction back down to meet the 'book value' growth curve (grey sideways parabola in image). OR, we could be hanging out for a spell and will be at ~50k in the coming weeks/months (before the then inevitable protracted correction back to 'book value' growth again). Of course we could also land somewhere in between as well.

It also implies that whether 20k or 50k or somewhere in between, the next bubble after this one could potentially be 5 years or more down the road, and when it does hit, would likely not be the one that takes it over a million (presuming nothing else gets in the way to derail the BTC manifest destiny before that Wink)

Presuming we can get another couple of these bubbles, I think we still get to 1 million / BTC (or greater)...it just might take a little longer than what the original model prescribes.

Sorry for the book. Thoughts?

It's a nice theory, but Bitcoin leads the market and all these other coins derive value for floating in bitcoin's orbit. So the BTC BETI is the BTC BETI. It should not be affected by total crypto market cap.



I don't mean to misappropriate or question the sanctity of the BETI metric that has been developed here...I was merely pointing out that the underlying log-linear trend that has been assumed might be a bad one.

So far, looks like the low end (20k) for the predicted bubble peak using a different, sideways parabolic growth assumption is holding correct so far (ie we will not be surpassing 20k until the next bubble cycle). Prepare now for an extended and volatile descent back down to that parabolic over the next 5 years or so (if this different take on the model is more reflective of reality)...and then, barring other intervening factors (like massive global governmental collusion to undermine bitcoin), the hype cycle should then repeat all over again and we will take-off on another bubble again...but at more modest peak again...it's still exponential trend it seems but a diminishing one.

As for the other alt-coins...it's hard to argue that they are not taking at least a litttle bit of steam away from the even greater growth that the bitcoin price would see if it were still the only major cryptocoin on the scene. For instance, Ethereum is a major player and has a market cap share that cannot be trivialized (or spoken of as somehow being derived wholly from bitcoin gravity.)

Our models only serve us to the extent that they reflect reality. They should always be thought about critically and altered when necessary - and not dogmatically followed as though they themselves are reality.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
Hey, I think you might be right. I did check this by taking the parameters from the very first post and applied them to the 25.-NOV-2913:
Screenshoot: https://i.imgur.com/nbQADHd.png

This way I get similar results as in the graph in https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.26855063. It would be great if jl2012 could confirm this.

The question to ask imo is whether we should reallyhold on to the old BETI values (BETI values in the past, calculated with parameters of the past) in the graph, or whether the whole BETI graph should always be based on the newest parameters only. In my opition the BETI graph should only be based on the newest parameters, because the old regression curve was caculated using "less information" (=btc price action after the calculation in that point of time). Thus we need to recalculate the past everytime we get new a/b parameters, thus we need to completely recalculate the BETI graph overtime.

You have a point. However, we have to make decisions right now and not in retrospect. Furthermore, in this case, the new BETI ATH would be 3! This poses a question, if we should adjust our strategy accordingly, i.e. expect that BETI could reach 3 in the next rally. I'm actually not sure what's best and I look forward to your and other people's opinions.
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