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Topic: BETI: Bitcoin Exponential Trend Index and technical analysis - page 13. (Read 110400 times)

full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 110
My opinion and best guess is some further downside tests in which the true believers will scoop up more coins, and medium term range such as after April 2013. A lot about this feels and looks similar so far... A sustained bear market doesn't seem appropriate, nor does blasting through to new highs immediately, that's just kind of... the sort of sentiment you would expect to see at a top shaped like this. We fell out of one logarithmic shape on the chart, and to compensate we make an even more insane one? I know this is crypto but... bitcoin has been behaving a bit more maturely this year overall IMO.

Also observing the tap of around 1.0 of the BETI, not as high as previous big runs. If this is a medium term high, does this start to signify a dampening of volatility over time?

Too soon to conclude? By looking at the graph, the reversion rate of bitcoin is quite low. Almost seems like a 50/50 random walk over monthly horizon. Only the yearly graph gives a bit evidence to support its mean reverting property.
newbie
Activity: 27
Merit: 1
My opinion and best guess is some further downside tests in which the true believers will scoop up more coins, and medium term range such as after April 2013. A lot about this feels and looks similar so far... A sustained bear market doesn't seem appropriate, nor does blasting through to new highs immediately, that's just kind of... the sort of sentiment you would expect to see at a top shaped like this. We fell out of one logarithmic shape on the chart, and to compensate we make an even more insane one? I know this is crypto but... bitcoin has been behaving a bit more maturely this year overall IMO.

Also observing the tap of around 1.0 of the BETI, not as high as previous big runs. If this is a medium term high, does this start to signify a dampening of volatility over time?
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
Date:   23-Dec-2017
BETI:   0.712
VWAP:   14785.39
x:   2,716
a:   0.003317
b:   -0.119297
Rsq:   0.837503
Expected price:   7251.46
Actual price / expected price:   203.90%
BETI ATL price:   780.71
BETI ATH price:   46944.96
Expected date:   25-Jul-2018
# of days ahead:   214.80
Daily VWAP rank:   14
Next expected price:   7275.55
   
   
   
   
Real-time expected (BETI 0) price   https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=e+%5E+(+0.00331673595762062++(+number+of+seconds+since+jul+17,+2010+12pm+UTC%2F86400%2Fseconds+)+-0.119296861590734+)
   
Real-time BETI   https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=ln(BTC%2FUSD)-(+0.00331673595762062++(+number+of+seconds+since+jul+17,+2010+12pm+UTC%2F86400%2Fseconds+)+-0.119296861590734+)
   
   
-1.00   2667.66
-0.75   3425.35
-0.50   4398.23
-0.25   5647.44
0.00   7251.46
0.25   9311.06
0.50   11955.64
0.75   15351.34
1.00   19711.51
1.25   25310.08
1.50   32498.79
1.75   41729.27
2.00   53581.44
2.25   68799.93
2.50   88340.86
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
I don't think BETI pattern in 2011 is particularly useful since it was the beginning of the chart and was not very stable.
Looking at all previous spikes which went above 0.5, when they came down, they always at least touched 0....
I wonder if that applies to this time round...

Anything can happen, but what I don't get is how two people can look at the same drawn chart and see two opposite things.
This is what i see:

In 2011, i see a sharp downturn from about 1.28 to 0.8, then upwards to eventually largest peak at around 1.87.
So, why a relatively small wiggle (so far) suggests to you that it has to go all the way to zero?

It can go to BETI at zero, which would be around 7300, but i don't see 100% probability of this in the chart.
My favorite scenario would be something rhyming with the 2011 chart:

Down to 8-8.5K, up to 12-13K, down again to 9.5-10K, then upwards to the moon (at or above 1.87, which likely to be 60-70K at that point).
This scenario would suggest that in interim both bulls and bears would be exhausted by the rapid turns.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 4331
Looking at all previous spikes which went above 0.5, when they came down, they always at least touched 0....
I wonder if that applies to this time round...

Anything can happen, but what I don't get is how two people can look at the same drawn chart and see two opposite things.
This is what i see:

In 2011, i see a sharp downturn from about 1.28 to 0.8, then upwards to eventually largest peak at around 1.87.
So, why a relatively small wiggle (so far) suggests to you that it has to go all the way to zero?

It can go to BETI at zero, which would be around 7300, but i don't see 100% probability of this in the chart.
My favorite scenario would be something rhyming with the 2011 chart:

Down to 8-8.5K, up to 12-13K, down again to 9.5-10K, then upwards to the moon (at or above 1.87, which likely to be 60-70K at that point).
This scenario would suggest that in interim both bulls and bears would be exhausted by the rapid turns.
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1531
yes
Looking at all previous spikes which went above 0.5, when they came down, they always at least touched 0....
I wonder if that applies to this time round...

In that case, you’ll know when to buy more  Cheesy
full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 110
Looking at all previous spikes which went above 0.5, when they came down, they always at least touched 0....
I wonder if that applies to this time round...
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
Date:   22-Dec-2017
BETI:   0.622
VWAP:   13441.46
x:   2,715
a:   0.003316
b:   -0.118770
Rsq:   0.837325
Expected price:   7219.87
Actual price / expected price:   186.17%
BETI ATL price:   777.31
BETI ATH price:   46740.43
Expected date:   27-Jun-2018
# of days ahead:   187.42
Daily VWAP rank:   16
Next expected price:   7243.85
   
   
   
   
Real-time expected (BETI 0) price   https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=e+%5E+(+0.00331615547164061++(+number+of+seconds+since+jul+17,+2010+12pm+UTC%2F86400%2Fseconds+)+-0.118770392977885+)
Real-time BETI   https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=ln(BTC%2FUSD)-(+0.00331615547164061++(+number+of+seconds+since+jul+17,+2010+12pm+UTC%2F86400%2Fseconds+)+-0.118770392977885+)
   
   
   
0.5   11903.55
1.0   19625.63
1.5   32357.20
2.0   53348.00
2.5   87955.98
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1016
2018 is a complete universe away from 2013. In 2018 we will enter the year with probably 50 coins near or above 1 billion in market cap. 50!
It was only mid 2016 that we had 2!

There are only two paths forward for bitcoin.

1) Bitcoin maintains its dominance as the reserve currency for crypto and continues to grow like a beating drum, Bitcoin has to hit $250k a coin and become so large that nothing will touch it, so far 300 billion seems like chump change when we have alts zooming to a billion at every turn

2) Bitcoin is replaced and is relegated to the footnotes of history.

If there is a bitcoin bear market, do any of you think there will be an overall crypto bear market??? NO effing way. If bitcoin tanks for six months, it will be all over. Bitcoin will not retake #1 if it is passed in market cap by a decentralized incumbent.  

Or alts will mostly disappear cause they are mostly useless. Then Bitcoin is in no rush.
Bitcoin getting replaced by some other coin is very very unlikely. It's network effects are way too strong and all alts are centralized in one way or the other.
Lets keep some reality here please!
In terms of regulations this may slower Bitcoins further success for some time, but this won't stop it.
Where are countries who try to regulate the sh** out of Bitcoin to harm it, there will countries who will fully embrace it!
Simple is that!
legendary
Activity: 1639
Merit: 1006
2018 is a complete universe away from 2013. In 2018 we will enter the year with probably 50 coins near or above 1 billion in market cap. 50!
It was only mid 2016 that we had 2!

There are only two paths forward for bitcoin.

1) Bitcoin maintains its dominance as the reserve currency for crypto and continues to grow like a beating drum, Bitcoin has to hit $250k a coin and become so large that nothing will touch it, so far 300 billion seems like chump change when we have alts zooming to a billion at every turn

2) Bitcoin is replaced and is relegated to the footnotes of history.

If there is a bitcoin bear market, do any of you think there will be an overall crypto bear market??? NO effing way. If bitcoin tanks for six months, it will be all over. Bitcoin will not retake #1 if it is passed in market cap by a decentralized incumbent. 
newbie
Activity: 27
Merit: 1
I doubt that any one can really call a bear market (in this bad boy) until several months after we have entered into it.
You do a lot of typing, I notice.
An analyst did predict an extended 2013-2015 bear market and made his statement during the topping of bitcoin's exchange rate in late 2013.
I'm pretty sure you know who I'm talking about.


No.

Is there some sort of sorcerer out there?  someone who actually knows the future?  I doubt it.  We have a system of probabilities, and merely because some one happens to be correct does not mean that they actually knew the future, because the future had not happened yet.  Now in retrospect, we can describe what happened.

that's very interesting.

I wonder how many other things out there we rely on that use a system of probabilities?

Such as - medicine, rocket science, physics, sociology, surgery risk factors, traffic control perhaps, even driving your car with the expectation you won't crash this time? Studying for a degree to become a lawyer or a doctor doesn't mean you will actually get a job, but you will invest in it anyways... shitloads of time and money. The general direction can be fairly certain once you start studying. There is no guarantee of the exact nature of your qualification or job that you get at the end of it, or whether you even survive to pass it, but it's highly probable.

I think prediction in markets, in some scenarios, can be made with some degree of certainty and in other with a higher degree. Exact predictions no, but general predictions yes for sure. Take heart surgery... there is no guarantee that the patient will live through it, or be able to run a marathon afterwards or what date they will die. But there is a high degree of certainty that they will live longer and benefit from it somehow, the reasoning for the surgery is that the general direction from it afterwards would be up. The precise nature of that life extension can be fairly vague.

Take BTC, I think at this point we are all fairly certain, that even if it does go down, it's going up again. No new lows and then breaking from the 300 range were the first signals, breaking 1200 was the next. Many others followed. Many people before predicted with a high degree of certainty that BTC was going up, they weren't necessarily the lucky ones, they were correct because they understood BTC and previous market movements and weighed it up to find the most probable outcome. Predicting something that comes true doesn't make you lucky by default. The exactness of it perhaps yes. Entering a bear market after a long bull run is a fairly vague statement to make. "We are really high now, now it's time to go down for a while"... Everything else can be vague, but the general prediction of direction can be spot on. An experienced Sorcerer doesn't have to use magic to identify a coming bear market, it's just an inevitability after a certain point. If they do it many times, they aren't a sorcerer really, they are just very good and experienced at finding probable outcomes with a high degree of certainty. High enough that they are actually certain.

No one knows the future for pretty much anything at all. Most people on this forum understand black swans... So yeah, even saying the sun will rise tmrw, by your definition, would make me a sorcerer. I'm gonna go ahead and say it though, maybe I'll be lucky and be correct....

I can also say, I believe it's absolutely certain that what goes up comes down and vice versa. I'm not predicting the future, I'm stating a truth. Everything in our universe is made of vibrating wave forms of some sort. So in markets, there are some fundamental truths that we base our probable predictions around which may in fact in some way give us more certainty than other fields.
hero member
Activity: 870
Merit: 585
Yes, there is a sorcerer out there.  Several days ago, you posted on a thread of which he was the OP.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
I doubt that any one can really call a bear market (in this bad boy) until several months after we have entered into it.
You do a lot of typing, I notice.
An analyst did predict an extended 2013-2015 bear market and made his statement during the topping of bitcoin's exchange rate in late 2013.
I'm pretty sure you know who I'm talking about.


No.

Is there some sort of sorcerer out there?  someone who actually knows the future?  I doubt it.  We have a system of probabilities, and merely because some one happens to be correct does not mean that they actually knew the future, because the future had not happened yet.  Now in retrospect, we can describe what happened.
hero member
Activity: 870
Merit: 585
I doubt that any one can really call a bear market (in this bad boy) until several months after we have entered into it.
You do a lot of typing, I notice.
An analyst did predict an extended 2013-2015 bear market and made his statement during the topping of bitcoin's exchange rate in late 2013.
I'm pretty sure you know who I'm talking about.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
There is less fear in the market and Bitcoin has survived another 4 years. A big difference with 2013.

There was no fear during the 2013 bull market. Same goes for the 2011 bull market. Fear doesn't arrive until the bear market is already in full swing. People like to point to Mt Gox as the reason for the 2014 bear market, but when Gox went down, we were already 2 months into the downtrend. It just accelerated the move. The truth is that the parabolic advance had already failed in early December and the sucker rally failed in early January.

If price breaks the log trend and prints a lower high like early 2014, that's when you'll begin to feel fear in the market. I don't think we'll ever see $1,000 bitcoins again, but I also think people aren't accounting for time. Bitcoin (like most markets) trends quickly, but ranges most of the time otherwise. These cycles are built on hype. After the hype comes a return to reality. I agree that demand will be higher than in past bear markets, which is why I'd aim for an 80% correction instead of 90-95%.

You seem to be calling an imminent bear market?  And, really I doubt that any one can really call a bear market (in this bad boy) until several months after we have entered into it.  Sure, there could be the beginning of a bear market now or a transition, but we have been in a bull market for more than 2 years.. but we did not know that we had entered into such bull market until nearly 9 months after we did, which was about May 2016. 

So, my point is that a transition from our current bull market to bear market is not likely to be clear for several months, that is if it is occurring now, and we are likely to experience a whole hell-of-a-lot of continued battle before such transition were to occur, that is if it were to occur within about our current price range.

I personally am of the opinion that there is likely enough fuel in this particular battle to have at least another 25% up from our current ATH of $19667... and I am kind of inclined to conclude that the leg (or legs) up are going to be a bit more than that additional 25% before we possibly transition into a bear market.... in any event too early to call any particular leg and we have to see how the dynamics play out... anyone who actually proclaims to know the future with any kind of precision is merely going to be lucky in such a call rather than really having foresight.  Sure, I am bullish as fuck about bitcoin, and the whole potential of where we are at - and even believe that it is way more bullish than I had expected at these current prices, because we are approximately 3x to 5x in a higher place than I had expected on this particular timeline... anyhow buying support and fuel continues to seem pretty stong in spite of the seemingly steepness of our current upwards price slope.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
There is less fear in the market and Bitcoin has survived another 4 years. A big difference with 2013.

There was no fear during the 2013 bull market. Same goes for the 2011 bull market. Fear doesn't arrive until the bear market is already in full swing. People like to point to Mt Gox as the reason for the 2014 bear market, but when Gox went down, we were already 2 months into the downtrend. It just accelerated the move. The truth is that the parabolic advance had already failed in early December and the sucker rally failed in early January.

If price breaks the log trend and prints a lower high like early 2014, that's when you'll begin to feel fear in the market. I don't think we'll ever see $1,000 bitcoins again, but I also think people aren't accounting for time. Bitcoin (like most markets) trends quickly, but ranges most of the time otherwise. These cycles are built on hype. After the hype comes a return to reality. I agree that demand will be higher than in past bear markets, which is why I'd aim for an 80% correction instead of 90-95%.
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1531
yes
Neither of you addressed that.

We did but you are free to interpret otherwise.
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
To both of you, I agree that we have come a long way in the last four years. I just don't see why the BETI top of this bubble should be higher than those of 2013. Neither of you addressed that.

https://i.imgflip.com/21fd6l.jpg
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
To both of you, I agree that we have come a long way in the last four years. I just don't see why the BETI top of this bubble should be higher than those of 2013. Neither of you addressed that.
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