BitCoins for Edward Snowden. - page 12.

BTCLuke

hero member

Activity: 526

Merit: 508

My other Avatar is also Scrooge McDuck

Quote from: BitcoinAshley on June 19, 2013, 01:09:04 PM

Quote from: runam0k on June 19, 2013, 11:54:04 AM

If nothing else, you have the freedom to go elsewhere, renounce your US citizenship and stop paying US taxes.

Nope, wrong. The U.S. Government has the power to decide whether or not you can leave the country. If you attempt to leave the country after they decide to specifically bar you from leaving by denying your passport application or denying you at the border, you could be arrested or shot at the border.

Hey, you forgot to mention: Even if you Don't get denied or shot at the border, and everything goes fine... Leaving your tax farm for another incurs pretty stiff exit fees!

The USA doesn't let its' livestock go cheaply... Expatriation fees are rarely less than 10% of your total worth, and you still get taxed on all income earned for the next 10 years!

...And if you don't expatriate properly, you will be taxed by the US for the rest of your life, yes, even on income from other nations that they have no business knowing about. People who try to ignore uncle sam because they've lived overseas their whole lives find this out the hard way in the end. Let's just say extradition treaties exist for a reason other than whistleblowers.

But hey, you're more free than anywhere else in Murika, right? Why not stay home... Obomba will take great care of you. Roll Eyes

BitcoinAshley

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: runam0k on June 19, 2013, 11:54:04 AM

Quote from: ErisDiscordia on June 19, 2013, 11:31:30 AM

I admit that you've lost me completely here. What freedoms are you talking about?

All the freedoms you enjoy and take for granted. Or are you suggesting you have no freedoms?

If nothing else, you have the freedom to go elsewhere, renounce your US citizenship and stop paying US taxes.

Nope, wrong. The U.S. Government has the power to decide whether or not you can leave the country. If you attempt to leave the country after they decide to specifically bar you from leaving by denying your passport application or denying you at the border, you could be arrested or shot at the border. How the fuck is that a "freedom" if someone else gets to decide whether you have it or not?

"Tyranny of the majority" for sure.

Please explain why you think the tyranny of the majority deciding that we should keep the NSA and other departments meets my needs as a U.S. citizen, and without some off-the-cuff false-choice crap about "you have a smaller chance of getting your legs blown off after running a marathon". Please explain why the U.S. being a "superpower" benefits me as a citizen, or benefits the citizens of Pakistan, Libya, etc, seeing their family members being blown to bits by predator drone strikes and aerial bombs, and landmines left over from previous wars, and uranium bullets used by U.S. troops giving people cancer. Superpower indeed.

Power should be as fragmented as possible so it can do less harm.

runam0k

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1001

Touchdown

Quote from: ErisDiscordia on June 19, 2013, 11:31:30 AM

I admit that you've lost me completely here. What freedoms are you talking about?

All the freedoms you enjoy and take for granted. Or are you suggesting you have no freedoms?

If nothing else, you have the freedom to go elsewhere, renounce your US citizenship and stop paying US taxes.

ErisDiscordia

legendary

Activity: 1133

Merit: 1163

Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos

Quote from: runam0k on June 19, 2013, 07:32:59 AM

Ha, no, not me personally. "We" meaning US society as a whole.

This confirms my suspicion that you're conflating society with government.

Quote from: runam0k on June 19, 2013, 07:32:59 AM

As in if this was put to a vote tomorrow, there's zero doubt the people of the US would choose to keep the NSA and every other branch of the US government that deals with national security matters.

Here you seem to be assuming that democracy is a good thing for anybody and a valid expression of the "will of the people" (whatever that may be).

Quote from: runam0k on June 19, 2013, 07:32:59 AM

I would go so far as to say that without such institutions, the US simply wouldn't be the superpower it is today.

Finally I can agree with something you've said

You can't have a superpower without necessary institutions. But what good is a superpower? Does it do any good for you? What other people are profiting from the fact that there is a superpower? I can tell you that personally I prefer power of any sort to be as fragmented as possible - it can do less harm that way.

Quote from: runam0k on June 19, 2013, 07:32:59 AM

Chances are we wouldn't have the freedoms we enjoy today.

I admit that you've lost me completely here. What freedoms are you talking about?

NewLiberty

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1002

Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: Its About Sharing on June 19, 2013, 11:12:23 AM

Quote from: atariguy on June 19, 2013, 10:41:00 AM

Snowden is looking more and more like a treasonous liar.

http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?doc_id=264687&f_src=securitysentinel

We should worry more about the charges and less about Snowden.
If the NSA has nothing to hide then they shouldn't be worried. (I think I've heard that somewhere before...)

Seems they do.
http://www.bankinfosecurity.com/nsa-outlines-steps-to-reduce-leaks-a-5843

Its About Sharing

legendary

Activity: 1442

Merit: 1000

Antifragile

Quote from: atariguy on June 19, 2013, 10:41:00 AM

Snowden is looking more and more like a treasonous liar.

http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?doc_id=264687&f_src=securitysentinel

We should worry more about the charges and less about Snowden.
If the NSA has nothing to hide then they shouldn't be worried. (I think I've heard that somewhere before...)

atariguy

full member

Activity: 364

Merit: 100

Snowden is looking more and more like a treasonous liar.

http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?doc_id=264687&f_src=securitysentinel

visionary

hero member

Activity: 966

Merit: 587

i wanna do it！

maybe snowden in here Grin

lazydna

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: Cubic Earth on June 19, 2013, 03:43:41 AM

Quote from: lazydna on June 19, 2013, 12:44:14 AM

I just don't get it, why HongKong? what the fuck, he's going to get extradited.
why didn't he just go to HongKong, out of reach of the Americans, THEN go to Iceland, THEN TELL YOUR STORY.
balls.

edit: I don't buy the 'i couldn't reach iceland in the short time'.
earning $120k a year and your telling me he couldn't sit at HKG, pay in cash/credit for the first flight out to KEF?

He was worried that he would have been captured in Iceland before he had a chance to go public. Iceland is small and the US can exert enormous pressure and maybe even have its agents operated directly there. Hong Kong, under China's umbrella, would not suffer from those same risks. Did you see that Snowden said he would have had to give the NSA 30-days of notice before he left the country? He was worried he might not have even made it to Hong Kong without being nabbed right off the airplane.

He was already safe when he hit Hong Kong and out of reach of the authorities. He could instantly got in the next available flight paying cash to KEF and nothing could have stopped him short of someone shooting down the plane.

cr1776

legendary

Activity: 4228

Merit: 1313

Encryption itself seems safe, but the problem is that for SSL/tls the centralized certificate authorties which are subject to government coercion, hacking and the like. Meaning fake certificates and man in the middle attacks. Plus some centralized vulnerabilities in tor.

Without some type of working peer to peer CA (perhaps tied to bitcoin or namecoin) this is a big vulnerability as Moore's law marches on because it becomes easier and easier to monitor more and more. (Or save more and more for use later).

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 19, 2013, 03:50:07 AM

Quote from: Cubic Earth on June 19, 2013, 03:43:41 AM

Quote from: lazydna on June 19, 2013, 12:44:14 AM

I just don't get it, why HongKong? what the fuck, he's going to get extradited.
why didn't he just go to HongKong, out of reach of the Americans, THEN go to Iceland, THEN TELL YOUR STORY.
balls.

edit: I don't buy the 'i couldn't reach iceland in the short time'.
earning $120k a year and your telling me he couldn't sit at HKG, pay in cash/credit for the first flight out to KEF?

He was worried that he would have been captured in Iceland before he had a chance to go public. Iceland is small and the US can exert enormous pressure and maybe even have its agents operated directly there. Hong Kong, under China's umbrella, would not suffer from those same risks. Did you see that Snowden said he would have had to give the NSA 30-days of notice before he left the country? He was worried he might not have even made it to Hong Kong without being nabbed right off the airplane.

The good news :

Snowden says encryption is safe. It must be. Otherwise how could he be giving all these interviews out in the open?

mco65

newbie

Activity: 48

Merit: 0

I guess my first question would be;
if privacy is your main concern, why would you run to a communist country?
odd

runam0k

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1001

Touchdown

Quote from: ErisDiscordia on June 19, 2013, 07:07:05 AM

So do you personally want to have this ability? Or are you just conflating government with society in general? Because if "we" end up having this ability I don't think it's going to be you or me that will be using it or even having any say in how and against whom it will be used.

Hey btw if institutions like banks and governments want to spy on me...well I can live with that as long as I can spy on them in the exact same manner. I bet that I have significantly less to hide than them Wink

Ha, no, not me personally. "We" meaning US society as a whole.

As in if this was put to a vote tomorrow, there's zero doubt the people of the US would choose to keep the NSA and every other branch of the US government that deals with national security matters.

I would go so far as to say that without such institutions, the US simply wouldn't be the superpower it is today. Chances are we wouldn't have the freedoms we enjoy today. We probably wouldn't even have the freedom to be typing here about bitcoins or bitcoins for Snowden.

ErisDiscordia

legendary

Activity: 1133

Merit: 1163

Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos

Quote from: runam0k on June 19, 2013, 06:26:12 AM

I'm not saying any of this is ideal, but if we want the ability, for example, to gather information on persons of interest (whether they be criminals, terrorists or foreign government or corporate spies) as and when required, there will necessarily be some form of clandestine operation that must necessarily be kept secret from the general population.

So do you personally want to have this ability? Or are you just conflating government with society in general? Because if "we" end up having this ability I don't think it's going to be you or me that will be using it or even having any say in how and against whom it will be used.

Hey btw if institutions like banks and governments want to spy on me...well I can live with that as long as I can spy on them in the exact same manner. I bet that I have significantly less to hide than them Wink

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: runam0k on June 19, 2013, 05:49:38 AM

Do you really think the NSA, CIA or whoever would try to kill Snowden? I say again, absurd.

A Government of Wolves: The Emerging American Police State

bg002h

donator

Activity: 1464

Merit: 1047

I outlived my lifetime membership:)

Quote from: BitJohn on June 19, 2013, 05:49:56 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on June 19, 2013, 04:08:36 AM

Quote from: runam0k on June 19, 2013, 03:57:00 AM

Snowden isn't in any danger at all (except, perhaps from kidnap by foreign intelligence operatives).

It's absurd to think the US authorities would try to kill him. He would have been perfectly safe had he stayed in the US too.

You might not have been paying attention ...

He committed treason hes not safe.

He revealed treason, IMHO. He will be _accused_ of committing it.

Lethn

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1000

Quote

Do you really think the NSA, CIA or whoever would try to kill Snowden? I say again, absurd.

When has the U.S government ever given a shit about what people like you think is absurd? They went and organised an illegal spying operation on Kim Dotcom just for setting up a file hosting site for fucks sake and in another country I should add.

hashman

legendary

Activity: 1264

Merit: 1008

Quote from: Elwar on June 09, 2013, 08:37:18 PM

At first I was outraged...$200k working for Booz Allen in Hawaii!!! Shocked

Then I saw the end:

Quote

Snowden left the CIA in 2009 to work for a private contractor that gave him an assignment at an NSA facility on a military base in Japan.

$200k makes sense. So does that mean his position is open?

Yes. And advertised in the NYT.

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.co.uk/2013_06_01_archive.html

runam0k

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1001

Touchdown

Quote from: BTCLuke on June 11, 2013, 02:13:58 PM

Quote from: runam0k on June 11, 2013, 06:19:31 AM

yes, the government should operate within the law. Oversight committees have direct responsibility for making sure that happens. There should be consequences for illegal activities. Heads should roll. Time for everyone to consider the legality of what the NSA does.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

So WTF is your solution?

I'm not saying any of this is ideal, but if we want the ability, for example, to gather information on persons of interest (whether they be criminals, terrorists or foreign government or corporate spies) as and when required, there will necessarily be some form of clandestine operation that must necessarily be kept secret from the general population. We necessarily rely on our elected representatives to decide how best to formulate and implement that plan. We necessarily rely on a small subset to specify the boundaries within which these programmes operate. The result - the best we have manged to come up with - is oversight committees and bona fide whistleblowing programmes.

Got a better idea?

Quote from: BTCLuke on June 11, 2013, 02:13:58 PM

Quote from: runam0k on June 11, 2013, 06:19:31 AM

An alternative view, with which I tend to agree:
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/06/edward-snowden-nsa-leaker-is-no-hero.html

EL OH EL at the 700+ DEATH THREATS the author got in the comments below.

Here's one for you too: Please go die in a fire.

Nice.

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote

The only surprising thing to me here is: a long bitcointalk thread where nobody questions the official story of the MSM.

I wondered this myself and came to the conclusion that no-one even bothers questioning the MSM because they implicitly assume (KNOW?) that they are spinning propaganda ... it must have been like this with Pravda during the USSR.

BitJohn

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@Bit_John

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on June 19, 2013, 04:08:36 AM

Quote from: runam0k on June 19, 2013, 03:57:00 AM

Snowden isn't in any danger at all (except, perhaps from kidnap by foreign intelligence operatives).

It's absurd to think the US authorities would try to kill him. He would have been perfectly safe had he stayed in the US too.

You might not have been paying attention ...

He committed treason hes not safe.

Topic: BitCoins for Edward Snowden. - page 12. (Read 30964 times)