Topic: Bitcointalk Charity and its funds - page 3. (Read 4828 times)

I can be harsh too, but one way or another this is not a reason to get personal, even if the user does not enjoy public trust. I think no one will deny that the Internet is a merciless place, but still you need to be a little more courteous with others because in the end you may be in his place (considering that earlier everything was in order with him and his judgments).  

I'm going to believe the feedback left by marlboroza to Timelord2067. It simply says: Lunatic.

Let's see if I get it right because it seems to me that I'm going to put him on ignore.

Timelord2067 distrusted crwth before today. In the latest trust list update from last Saturday it appears like this.

And because today crwth distrusted Timelord2067 he says this is DT Trust abuse. Is that so? Because if so he is a total lunatic. I thought it was about the consumption of potent marijuana or hallucinogenic drugs, but now I doubt if it is not because he is not taking medication for schizophrenia or something like that.

Do you think he doesn't know this? I thought everyone was already used to the fact that Timelord2067 was partial to frivolous interpretation of facts.

Especially considering that 4 days before he used a tilde against crwth, but for some reason he did not mention this in the last post. Whatever crwth does, I would say that he is still part of the community with the same rights as the rest ... but apparently Timelord2067 does not think so. 

I'm interested in something, I'd like to hear an explanation.
how the approval process went, where the funds from the fund will be spent? For example, everything you paid for, bought and then donated, how does the whole process go?
I guess you need to talk with cabalism, explain to him what is your idea and he approves funds for that? did you have to show him exactly how much it would cost, did you show him the bills for the things you bought, or did you work roughly and trust each other on the word?
I saw marlboroza very clear documented where he spend donated money, why it was a practice only in that case?


Any user can create his own custom trust list, have we not outgrown the complaints of why someone put someone on ~? you sound like your ego is hurt because of it.
However, you know that is not enough if just one user distrust you and this doesn't want to affect many other, I'm surprised you're making a drama out of it.

... and just like that crwth engages in DT Trust abuse in an attempt to silence others...

... Just like finaleshot2016 ...

Without proof why bring it up? The topic deals with the charity, not their possible alts. Save that for your thread.

Noted.


Hmm... I won't ask yahoo62278 (the OP of this thread) what he thinks is on topic in his thread...


Of which I made no mention.

Kind of disingenuous to bring that up.  If you were paying attention I had asked that potentially identifying information (and therefore, potentially misidentifying information,) be sent to me in personal message, and not posted in public.  And as crwth indicated, he did indeed share what he could.

Not to mention, continued attempts to link this issue with the two loan scammers isn't really helpful and it's off-topic.  The only similarity is the people's ethnicity/nationality.  Other than that, I haven't seen any connection between these three individuals and the two scammers.

True...

However...


Three wallet addresses, two users, one exchange - as identified by @RapTarX [here]

I don't know anything when it comes to decisions of the funds. All I'm focused on is the funds allocated to me and making sure that activities were done.

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I don't think you have looked at the spreadsheet enough. It's there with a link.

A lot of businesses here in our country do it like that.

Probably the business is non-VAT or something.

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The second one is for the bags for the contents of the goods to be in for distribution. 2nd one is the lunch meal that we had before the distribution of the goods in different locations.

I think it could've been handled better.

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How can you say it's unanswered? DireWolfM14 has contacted me with this long before and I did help him with what I could provide.

Seeing as crwth is keen to answer questions, here's one that's remained unanswered for a while:

I've decided to remove my support for crwth's flag, and I've deleted my red-tag.

@crwth, thanks for providing the requested information, and I'm glad to hear you're feeling better.

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You've made some good points, and bring up some good questions.  One thing that occurred to me is that the administrators of the charity were all donating their time and putting in the effort to get things done.  This is usually the way charities start, but at some point compensation for their effort should be considered.  This also speaks to the other points you've made about expectations (or lack there of) placed on the administrators, and how they should be validated.

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Just to be clear to those who are opposed to the tags and flags; as I've demonstrated above, they are not permanent.  They do however, serve the purpose of demonstrating that there are concerns about how the donations are being spent.

I'm not opposed to removing my tags and support of the flags for cabalism13 and bl4nkcode assuming they satisfactorily provide data or answers.

Was there ever an itemized list with receipts, like we're expecting now? I skimmed through the thread and I didn't see it. There as sporadic reporting of activities. Whether that's enough should be up to people who donated but I think they should have asked about it much sooner if that was a concern.

Here's the rough timeline involving the 1 BTC donations:

• Charity starts in March 2019.
• 1 BTC is donated about a year later (May 2020). It would seem that the charity had established a track record by that time and someone sending them 1 BTC is a serious endorsement. The charity had handled a total of ~0.1 BTC by that time.
• If that's not convincing, the same entity (funds coming from the change address of the prior transaction) sends them 1 BTC again six months later (November 2020). It would seem again that this large donor is happy with the work they're doing.
• Another year goes by (December 2021) and we're retroactively asking for accounting.

I would be interested in the opinion of the large donor - why they donated, and if they're happy with the outcome. But I guess they're unlikely to come forward.

There is nothing particularly wrong with the community asking questions, it's just that it's starting to sound a bit like digging up a trade of someone selling some trinket a year ago and now asking for a tracking number with signature confirmation. Let's be real, we won't get detailed receipts for every satoshi. Perhaps lowering those expectations and asking cabalism13 et al what is feasible to provide would be more productive, instead of facing them with an impossible task.


I wouldn't say "excused" but certainly it matters a lot what the expectations of donors are. If donors are like "don't waste your time on detailed accounting" and the charity runs basically on volunteer work, I can understand how the lack of accounting happens. But it wouldn't justify pocketing or losing charity money, if that's what happened here.

The second pictures adds up to 0.14500002BTC, so I assume it included 0.00050002BTC of your own funds. This turned into 244,846.31PHP.

I don't think there should be a "labor fee" for a charity created by a community. If there is, it would make the ones running the charity basically employees, and even though I know that's all business as usual for the large corporations that pose as charities, it doesn't seem right for a community event.

Receipts can always be faked up to a certain extend, but what other options does he have to prove anything?

All fair points.

It shouldn't have been necessary for the community to ask for receipts, I would have expected the escrow to collect those.

I can imagine people have offline obligations during those days.

As far as I know, that is quite common for receipts in the Philippines. I find it strange there's not even a business name on the receipts, but even in the Netherlands I've been handed similar receipts in the past.

This was promised:
Do you think the posts after the large donations were sufficient?

Agreed. For $100, that's great! And after the large donations, things should have been improved but the opposite happened: there were less posts about how funds were spent.

I also think crwth deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think it's a secret many Filipinos use coins.ph.

I would point out that funds donated to charity are intended to be spent, so any "escrow agent" would obviously need to facilitate spending any coin received in order to convert it to fiat in order to eventually donate it to charitable causes. This is unlike an escrow agent facilitating a transaction between two people when the money should not be touched until the parties agree to release the coin to the other party (unless there is some agreement otherwise).

I would expect most donations to be converted to fiat before being put to good causes.

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While reading this thread, I did not approve of cabalism13 using $500 for medicine for his grandfather, however upon reviewing the spreadsheet that crwth posted, it looks like, in April 2019, some of the money was sent to legendster with a reference that talks about donating to various what looks like "go-fund-me" pages (or more accurately, a fundraiser hosted by a competitor of go fund me) for medical expenses.

I think there should have been some transparency regarding the transaction to help cabalism13's grandfather, as it appeared to be the case for many other times that funds were disbursed.

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Another major issue is that the thread announcing the "charity" is very vague as to what the funds would be used for, and as to the level of documentation that would be kept and presented publicly to prove that donations were actually made. I would personally like a very detailed accounting of specific expenses, I think it is difficult to justify demanding receipts months (or longer?) after the fact.

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Overall, I think those involved did a poor job running the charity, as it appears there is a lack of confidence in its operation, and expenses have not been well documented. There is also a lack of documentation as to what funds would be spent on, so those involved are not setting expectations for their donors. I would recommend against donating to the "Bitcointalk Charity Program".

This is very likely a unit of measure of cabalism13's local currency. Based on what others have written in this thread, he is based in the Philippines, so he was likely referring to 350k of Phillippines local currency.

So, just because this wasn't an entity, some big charity organization, they have the excuse not to track everything that they do. How serious is that, especially when you handle others' money for a cause? Keeping a simple excel and a small box of candies to put all the receipts that you will get, needs an accountant or removes the term "spontaneous" or by being spontaneous you lose the seriousness? Besides, they started by keeping things in (some) order but suddenly, forget to continue it. There is a magical way to forget to do it, at some point?
Some said that they started with good intentions but they "lost" it on their way. So? Greater initiatives, bigger projects, "lose" it, and along lost the funds that they suppose to keep/ spent for a reason. They are excused because they didn't start with such intentions?

If for any reason they can't keep up the work that they started, they should inform and stop it. They didn't. If anyone from their team was in need of taking some of the charity funds for personal use, they should inform. They didn't. If they spend money for doing what they suppose to do but they miss taking a receipt (?), they should take action and get it. They didn't. If someone from their team was accused of mishandling the funds, they should react/ respond from day one and not in person but publicly. They didn't. The problem is that they knew what to do but they miss it on the way... And the questions about where is the money and why this (suddenly) happens remain...
As for the Covid issue, I'm already on the 9th day of my quarantine but I can write a post in a day...

Just want to shed some light on those receipts, they are not considered Official Receipts and therefore not qualified to be used for input taxes. It's a common practice among small-medium businesses (registered/unegistered) here not to use receipts approve by the BIR because it costs more and it takes time to get one from authorized printing companies.

The C usually means Cash payment and that's also a common practice.

Traditionally in finance, management, scientific research, there are retention periods in which you will have to store all records safely and have to obey clear rules for destruction of data.

I don't think we have such things with spontaneous charities. There are no Memorandum of understanding (MOU). I meant in spontaneous activities, such requirements only be raised after suspicious things which can be right accusation or just misunderstanding or mis-communication  or just bad operation (but it's different than scam). In the end, operators will bear the most disadvantages if they are non-scammers!

So as I said, if you want something clear and professional, go to big charity foundations which are easily to find. If you participate in spontaneous charities & have clear ideas about what might happen, you should bring such requirements at beginning before you send your donation.

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As I said, it is not my backing words for this charity. Just fact in life!

Yes but in our country (same with crwth) receipts often looks like that so I can attest that he is showing you the exact receipt that he did get from purchase. I don't think being grilled like this have some sort of chance to lie of what was being wanted by most of us here don't you think? Also it does prove something of their spent from the charity money, so I think that's a common sense it did prove something.

I also think that crwth joins the charity to help some people that needed funds. So in this kind of scenario everyone should at least give them some good points aside from the negative aspect of their transactions alone. But I understand that there should be a transparent document presenting those spent charity funds which I assume (loss, misplaced, or whatsonot). Anyway, clearly seeing some advance on their part to present some receipts.

Maybe we just need to wait, but I have a question:  Let say that some of the receipts or evidence were gone or cant be presented, is voucher acceptable for the audit or you think everyone would consider that as forging. Chances some of those receipts are probably lost due to some reason right? What will be the judgement for that.