Topic: Bitcointalk Charity and its funds - page 7. (Read 4992 times)

Is this spreadsheet created by you based on information you provided in this post, or it's coming from original Charity team?

This is obviously different from previous spreadsheet and I can't access it because it's locked for reading and I don't have google account here.
Can someone post screenshot or transfer data to other document that is open for reading, if it's not erased or locked.

If you sent that 0.2 btc to any organization that accepts Bitcoin donations for charity, how exactly would you track their spending habits and check they are not abusing this money?
I think that everybody remembers notorious fake hunanrightsfoundation who is still acepting donations for who knows what, maybe for arming his hezbollah paramilitary units.
Even for legit big charity organizations you can't really see and verify how they are spending money, but I am sure they are keeping transactions in private for personal records.
Someone could even hold grudge and complain about donations for bitcointalk forum and paying for new invisible forum software

I read the whole thread and before making any conclusions I wanted to look at the table ... but I also ran into this problem.

This is also ... I don't know about you, but it seems strange to me that all three guys provided vague facts, I would understand if this behavior was traced only in one participant in this case, but not in three at once.

In general, I am still reading ...

Earlier it worked, so the owner changed it.

It feels like crwth did less bad than the others, but if I imagine what I would have done, I think he could (and should) have done better. Let's say someone offered me 0.2BTC to spend on charitable causes in my country, and let's say it didn't occur to me the person who offered it was breaking his own promise by taking the money out of escrow when he handed it to me. I think, in the spirit of trying to help people, overlooking that mistake can be forgiven.
But then, when spending someone else's money on charitable causes, I would be meticulous in keeping track of everything. Partially because it's the right thing to do, but mainly because it's the only way I can prove I used the money properly.

Maybe crwth can share all records he has, in a separate spreadsheet edited only by him?

Access denied? I thought to have a little audit but 

It was public earlier today morning when I posted last time. There was some wrong (or wrong) information which I have pointed out.

Don't you think how the activity was going on was known to crwth? He could have raised questions if things weren't going accordingly. Either way, he didn't have included anything yet; no tx record, no clear amount.
 As for now, I don't want to tag either of crwth & bl4nkcode nor I'm supporting the flag. I'll give them time to respond to the issues for a few more days. If they can't come clean, I will tag & support the flag.
Just have tagged cabalism13 for not being transparent as he is the host of the charity.

Oh. That's new to me and unpleasant to hear.
I have to familiarize myself with the subject matter before I can give my opinion.

I thought it would be a good campaign to which I myself already donated money and promoted this campaign...

If this were a criminal trial (which obviously it's not,) then yes, I would be in agreement.  But this is more like a civil suit where the proving liability, not guilt is the criteria.  Which brings me to the part of your quote that I bolded:  When someone is charged with handling other people's money (such as charitable contributions,) it's that person's responsibility to provide the evidence of where the money is going.  Since crwth is guilty of not honoring that obligation, in my opinion that's enough for a tag and flag.

---

The other issue that's worth addressing; all three of these members are still on DT1.

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.

The spreadsheet is asking for access. Why can't we make is public?

These numbers are in USD or in their local currency?

I have waited enough to be honest. I gave them my benefit of doubt since they were some long term members and contributed in the forum a lot.

I don't go and tag people. That's not me but since this is public now - I have responsibility to act hard. After all it's the money in question which was asked for people in need.

Why would a clear transaction reference from them is taking too long? If I am honest I will act fast, very fast because I do not have to think a back up plan to protect me from the words I will speak.

I mostly agree with your words here, but I kinda feel like crwth is not an employee but a co treasurer when he accepted funds on the 3 way split. Like I said in my post, if someone is going to tag 1 I personally feel all 3 should be tagged. All of them were wrong and mishandled the funds by not keeping receipts alone. 1 could make a case for all 3 both ways, to tag or not to tag. I'm ok with either way personally.

I'd rather noone got tagged, but that's not likely to happen. I hope anyone else who reads this thread learns from it if they plan on having any part of a charity. Bookkeeping is huge especially when we the community donated the funds. Sticking to an agreement is huge as well.

Ok, so I'm going to explain why I am going to support the flags against Cabalism13 and bl4nkcode but not against crwth.

As for cabalism13 it is clear. He was in charge of the operation, admitted to taking $500 for personal use, posted that donations were accepted at non-escrow addresses via PM and admitted to yahoo62278 wrongdoing.

As for bl4nkcode, he is the escrow and had responsibility for the money. Just yesterday I created a neutral tag with this thread as a reference because between people asking for more time and yahoo62278 talking about an audit again, plus the recent hurricane, I could see a couple of months without even getting a neutral tag. I'm going to support the flag and delete the feedback.

As for crwth I think he is clearly less at fault than the other two. If this were a trial for misappropriation of funds in a company, the most serious penalties would go to the boss (cabalism13) and the treasurer (bl4nkcode,) the employee would surely receive lesser penalty if he received any. Also I don't think we have strong evidence against him unlike the other two. In this case I will neither support nor oppose the flag and will stand by my neutral tag.

I'm not buying it.  The information provided is way too vague and without receipts there's no way to validate it.  Only one of the individuals even offered any information, and a generous amount time has passed since the data was requested.

And what's with the lack of receipts?  I can only think of two reasons why someone handling other peoples money wouldn't ensure he has all receipts to verify his transactions; malice or ineptitude.  Neither inspire much confidence.  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2895
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2894
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2893

I just had a quick look on the spreadsheet. It was not satisfiable. Though bl4nkcode & crwth expenses have some in depth, cabalism13 didn’t put any.
Either way, I'm confused on the following-

1. Cabalism13 said he spent 0.1225 BTC on this event- https://www.facebook.com/cgslagunadebay/posts/1295536597476624
This 0.1225 BTC is the amount from 0.55+ BTC from the leftover fund sent to Binance on 4th January 2021 but the event Cabalisn13 linked is from 23rd November 2020. Time travel? JK. Can cabalism13 please explain whether it's a wrong one or not?

2. In the details of bl4nkcode spent, you have shown bl4nkcode received 0.25 BTC and spent them. Okay. He received the fund in June 01, 2020; while in the screenshot, there's some USDT sell proofs which is from February 2021. He was supposed to sell the 0.25 BTC before June 11, 2020. Well, he did too. But what about the usdt tx in February 2021? bl4nkcode have received fund in January 2021. Run activities in December 2021 but why the USDT tx from February 2021?

3. bL4nkcode run 2 activities after this thread created? While he received the fund more than 11 months ago on his Binance. When did he sell? How much worth of USD?

I need to check out more. I don’t have time now; it's morning here. I will be checking out more on evening.

This is why I mentioned they need to break down the exact cost of every item they bought for audit purposes. We will never get anything down to the penny regardless, but I do not think it's too much to ask that some effort be put into accounting by these guys.

Round numbers indicate inaccurate accounting: Snack and meals: 800, 1200, 1600, 1800, 650, 1400 and 8500. GASOLINE: 1500, 1000 and 500. Even I keep receipts of my gasoline expenses, it doesn't make sense to spend 2+ Bitcoin of donated funds without keeping a single receipt.

As I said, everyone is free to do as they feel is correct. Tag or don't tag, Noone would be wrong  here.

I was sent this spreadsheet this morning. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/119Y3xOq4FzUhXKyPN11N_Mtwn37VmkqUj2IQiBi08pQ/edit?fbclid=IwAR1BDCGvy_ohYhRq6AMigOoo0gvY15hYS3Oxl4b3xBuJsAyBgXYjAg1ZwxU#gid=1160771654

I cannot verify the amounts spent are correct. This is from cabalism13

You didn't donate doesn't necessarily mean it's not your fight. I don't want to mention whether I have donated or not but this charity is named bitcointalk charity & the fund was raised from bitcointalk members. They owe an explanation to the bitcointalk community. You, me & anyone else in this forum deserve an explanation obviously.

You're probably right on that, but I'm awaiting the final tally from the other two members.  And I don't think I was being too hard on cabalism13 at all, since he clearly was mismanaging funds.  Even if he thought he wasn't, his response to the community speaks volumes.  This is not a person I'd entrust with my money, hence the negative trust.

Also, this isn't my fight since I wasn't a donator and had nothing to do with the workings of the charity, so I'm going to remain silent henceforth in this thread until or unless crwth and bl4nkcode explain themselves.  However, as a DT member (and for my own trust list) I felt a negative was well-justified in this case.

I don't know how long it took you to do that analysis, but I've no doubt an even more complete one could have been done by the three members in question if they had the inclination to do so, and it could probably have been finished on the 3rd day of this thread at the latest.

I just had a try to find all the tx links, relevant discussion & possible expenses. All this information was available on the internet. I just had a try to put them into one place since no one was giving a shit. You can find the sheet here- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z3nZePiflhAuPh6y_f9LxmL1997vdfeYsQo_hUyspT8/edit?usp=sharing

Relevant addresses:

33tZjC2ZdVib9JLdWZH4rg7HzhuuTG5WZd - crwth
32RYTtV6xGTX55i5QdfA7T8iWgAd2QK7yo - legendster
33c9Df6J6vkGU1cuX84AePoeH2qzuzbcF1 - cabalism13
3LjVmpw2wDWawaPGa8Lj5JYjYciXDAePbW - cabalism13
3LvwmWgo6kS64Rtz5JVwpq3v1R8NXckX2W - crwth
351ZYYihVwJnKKv9iAdGeFxhaJ3t7zzrcA - bl4nkcode
bc1qlk9s9tmsv79hk345s98atht534fac3qu0nrayu - probably cabalism13
1a3eegDyFQAotunG5CknN4JntFzfZC3Mo - not sure who own
bc1qxu65xsfjecr8cxc3ywsp2pjzqp35dvs69tulem - not sure who own
3KwDEEzZycWYC73juBsrbjJjB1zumrx37v - marlboroza
bc1q20yenlspxprxk9dqttc6gue8yz02auth89jdvq - not sure who own (0.56622723 BTC received worth of $18789^#1)

Though cabalism13 said, 0.55 BTC is questionable, from what I can see, a total of 0.56622723 BTC worth $18789 is questionable without any doubt. This is the sum of the amount sent for converting into USDT (supposed to be).
But if I sum the amounts which have no proof, the total is 0.84272723 BTC worth $23,875.96 which in my investigation may not have any proof.

Since bl4nkcode was the escrow, I would like him to answer the following questions if he/they want to assist the issue solved.

1. Is my spreadsheet correct? The receiver of the amount, proof link? If yes, okay; if not, which one & please with a spreadsheet.
2. On row 19 & 20- total of 0.1445 BTC worth $2531 sent to cabalism13 & crwth. Where's the money spent? No discussion here at all?
3. On row 21 & 22- total of 0.112 BTC worth $2006 sent to 2 addresses which was not previously used by any of you. Who received the fund & same question as of #2, where's the money spent?
4. A total of 0.56622723 BTC worth $18789 was transferred to bc1q20yenlspxprxk9dqttc6gue8yz02auth89jdvq, who owns this address? What was the total value after conversion? Who had access to the fund? You, crwth or cabalism13? Where's the money spent?
5. Lastly, there was some altcoin address. Cabalism13 asked to PM people to donate altcoin. Where are the addresses? Who owns these addresses? How much you received on that addresses?

A summary:
Total Received - 2.12264434 BTC
Total Sent - 2.11662723 BTC Rest are tx fees
Total sent USD - $40943 ($23875 is questionable)

#1- Please add $25 USDT more, it was donated by tranthidung.
#2- I didn't add the expense of the website as website expenses was supposed to be donated by someone else.
#3- USD rate is from blockchair (at the time of transfer.)

You can tag them right now with a neutral rating with a reference to this topic, but without any incriminating evidence about the charity, painting red feels a bit overboard to me.


The problem with doing audits like this is that often there is no way to get a trace of what was spent on what, or even what money was sent for. The forum isn't the SEC, after all.

I guess many do not want prematurely to tag anywhere of them.
however, I am very surprised that we don't have a single promise on whether they plan to present the proofs asked at all. Except for some short update from crwth and nothing more.

I am not going to tag any of them yet and I will give them more time to show more transaction proofs, not only images for their donation work.
It needs time to reproduce everything, especially if they had sloppy or no records keeping, but it can be done in few weeks top.

Good luck in getting any real audit for this charity  
I am not sure how Bitcoin is exactly regulated in their country and how they converted BTC to fiat money, they later used for purchasing donation stuff.
In the end we still need to trust their word, because it's not easy to track any coins once they get in exchange wallets.

They are obviously keeping things open and still working, according to latest post in their topic made by crwth.
I would keep this charity running only if the come clean with previous work, and if in future they show exact amount of money/btc spent for something, along with images and short explanation.