Topic: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly" - page 59. (Read 108641 times)

or just go to their website, the new chips are on the website

http://www.innosilicon.com

google "innnosilicon" and either "A3" or "A4"

 Quite a few links that will find you, though a lot are reporting of the same few press releases.

can you point towards info about those chips? my search skills failed me

ya think.  Maybe so.  My guess we get neither of them.

I would bet we will see Innosilicon chips for sale before we see Bitfury's.

correction
Back then when it was called "CUSTOM HARDWARE"
it was all about hardware devs , designs etc

Same as any other hardware announcement ever? This is originally what this subforum was for.

why is  this thread in "hardware" They have no proof, no release date, nothing.
"sales tu public start shortly" ? really ? how shortly ? this month ? next month ? next year ? next 2 years ?

PLEASE MOVE IT TO "MINING SPECULATIONS"

 Tapeout is normally a step MONTHS in advance of producing actual sellable/manufacture with chips.
 Sometimes, if the design wasn't done right, tape-out is just "oops, we designed these but the design don't WORK back to the drawing board to figure out how to FIX what's not working right", though that's not common with modern design tools. More commonly, the design works but doesn't meet the intended specs at which point you have to try to figure out how to fix the design to meet target specs, or you decide to live with the specs achieved if they're close enough to target.

 Even in cases where the tape-out prototype chips meet the target specs, actually ramping up to production is still usually a "months to go" thing.


 It's not hard to picture Bitfury having working chips NOW though, all of their announcements have been a few months ahead of the corresponding Innosilicon ones, and I'm expecting full production out of Innosilicon 1Q next year timeframe.

my opinion is they already mine on those "new" chips, profits were made, and now they release for public too

Doesn't sound like much room for spin there. What they said is pretty clear, so it's either truth or lies. Announcing "mass production" is fairly grey, as there are who knows how many steps required and they might just be on step 1, but they outright stated in plain terms that they had tested engineering samples so the design has been verified in the real world. Maybe the announced tapeout was for these samples? That would have given them chips in about November, and then a month testing the crap out of 'em I guess before moving on to full-scale production? Not impossible. I sure hope they're not lying about having samples in hand because I also hope they're not lying about making them available because I really want to play with these chips.

Lying or stretching the truth?  "Tape-out" was supposedly completed in August-September, http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-completion-16nm-bitcoin-mining-asic/ but what, the chips were sitting in storage until now when they had the time to do a press release?  I'm with the others, I'll believe it when I see it.

well "technically" LOL you're right I guess

For sure Bitmain know what they are doing I just personally do not like them .
I like Avalon better, they do not behave as most of Chinese "eat all" companies, at least until now
The greatest advantage of Bitfury is that they know exactly what to do and how and not last they are not Chinese

Agreed. After several years of announcing 14/16nm is 'soon to be here' the foundries like TSMC, GloFo, Samsung et al are only now finally nailing down the production processes for 14/16nm chips with reasonable yields.

Still have massive dead chip rates vs the larger nodes but getting 30-40% viable chips per run ain't bad. The current scrap rates are very acceptable for companies (cell phone/PC chip makers) that can afford it but still relate to barely acceptable for other chips users. Still, give it time and yield rates will continue to climb.

As for the 10-8nm nodes...   Not going to see that fore at least 3-5 more years assuming they get the EUV light sources to be more powerful and stable. The current way being used (zapping droplets of tin with >30kw lasers and collecting the light produced) is working but IMHO not the final solution. re http://optics.org/news/6/6/31 and http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=56802

If by "don't have the tech yet" you mean "haven't completed mass production of the now proved-with-engineering-samples tech yet", then sure. But unless they're outright lying on this press release, they have the tech. Silicon in hand.

I would venture to say Bitmain's already more than paid off their dev costs for the BM1385. They've been selling S7 like made for what, three months or so? Most of those were priced well above $10 per ASIC, and if they're anything like BM1384 they'd still profit from chips at below $3 per ASIC. I know there are additional costs to manufacture, like all the other complex high-dollar components on their boards (oh wait, minimal BOM design), but still. Now they're selling at about $1100 a pop, and I'm pretty sure the unit cost hasn't decreased, so you know they made at least $700 per when they sold at $1800 each. I'd guess it was well over $1000 margin, which it only takes 1000 units to make back a million bucks. Heck my tiny facility has more than a dozen running in it. They've shipped 8 batches, how many to a batch?

And Bitmain already said when the BM1385 rolled out that they were basically sitting on a full-custom 16nm design, just waiting for the right (which is to say, most profitable) time to deploy it. They know what they're doing.

better tech than only works at 75°C?

in any case it's not only the tech that makes a successful manufacturer... marketing has a lot to do with it and Bitmain is way ahead there

but this is BitFury thread who don't even have the "tech" yet just threaten everyone with it... not a fair fihgt so far

But Avalon is better tech anytime compared to Bitmain.
Also SW is open source By GPL, something you can not say about BITMAINtech

of course Bitmain will recoup their costs

their miners are selling as fast as they can make them

their customers might not be as lucky though

not sure about Avalon they aren't interested in selling in small quantities and their pricing sucks

So here is what is confusing. If 14/16nm is due out within a few months, this would severely shorten the useful life of the A6/S7 models. Yet the network hash seems to say that a lot of money was dumped on these very models. If true, even the big boys might have problems with ROI. One wonders if BITMAIN et al would recoup their 1385 development costs. You would think the the competitive intel of the bigs would be accurate.

Speaking of IBM, one of their old tricks used to be to pre announce their next model of large systems to forestall customers from buying their competitors hardware.