Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly" - page 55.

carlosmnk

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Quote from: adaseb on January 18, 2016, 09:46:28 AM

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

Developement costs; i supose they want to recover the investment quickly; bonus will be their miners hashing, maybe...

I don't know what's their cost to develop the 16mn chip, but it is millons of $$$, much money to recover by themselves, or too time... but only speculating...

dogie

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Quote from: Mitak on January 18, 2016, 11:23:47 AM

Quote from: wttbs on January 18, 2016, 09:42:58 AM

If you want to buy Rev3 chips directly from Bitfury you must join their MOQ and pay $1M Shocked

So no way small companies can buy rev3 chips Sad

even if there is a company that buys chips thru MOQ and resells them price will be to high I guess...

Or.....
Small companies and independent designers can join together and reach this MOQ after they have proven working design.
From Niko's posts I understand that BFSB will be back online selling chips in small quantities for a margin of course

He will list them in his shop down to small quantities, at reasonable prices. Just for now they're dealing with the big boys so they can make plans.

Quote from: adaseb on January 18, 2016, 09:46:28 AM

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

There gets to a point where you have too much hardware and end up competing against yourself. By selling the mining rights of chips upfront, you can sell or utilize a greater number. And get more money back upfront. And decentralise-ish. And PR. And VC money. And means you don't have to keep building 100MW facilities for the trillion chips you just made.

d57heinz

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Quote from: dropt on January 18, 2016, 10:28:14 AM

Quote from: d57heinz on January 18, 2016, 09:59:41 AM

Quote from: adaseb on January 18, 2016, 09:46:28 AM

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

Because nothing in the bitcoin world is set in stone.. Hell it could be banned globally tomorrow.. Not that that would stop it but definitely would put a hurt on it if money cant be brought in or out with an exchange. But anyway the only sure bet is if you have demand for a chip.. Sell it sell the shit out of it to whomever will throw money your way.. Its not about btc anymore its about how places can take advantage of it while its going strong.. If Bitfury sells to chinese farms then i think we know where they stand.

Best Regards
d57heinz

Bitcoin is supposed to be non-discriminatory, would be pretty poor form to not allow the Chinese to buy chips.

Not trying to discriminate.. But when china runs 100% of the network im going to be sad to come in and even have to say i told you so. The reason btc is strong is due to it not being able to be controlled by one person.. Id say if the president of china says im running the show im pretty sure that's what will happen! (so bitcoin needs to be in a state that it cant be vulnerable if that were to happen ) Something has to be put in place to try to further decentralize mining.. i dont fault china for being on top of the game. but i thought there was an implied social contract that no one entity whether it be a mining pool or country would get over 51%.. i know you can see why this is a concern.. not to mention all the technological limitations putting all that hash in one country causes for the rest of the network miners..

Best Regards
d57heinz

Mitak

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Quote from: dropt on January 18, 2016, 10:28:14 AM

Quote from: d57heinz on January 18, 2016, 09:59:41 AM

Quote from: adaseb on January 18, 2016, 09:46:28 AM

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

Because nothing in the bitcoin world is set in stone.. Hell it could be banned globally tomorrow.. Not that that would stop it but definitely would put a hurt on it if money cant be brought in or out with an exchange. But anyway the only sure bet is if you have demand for a chip.. Sell it sell the shit out of it to whomever will throw money your way.. Its not about btc anymore its about how places can take advantage of it while its going strong.. If Bitfury sells to chinese farms then i think we know where they stand.

Best Regards
d57heinz

Bitcoin is supposed to be non-discriminatory, would be pretty poor form to not allow the Chinese to buy chips.

Agree on that.
There was a post saying that with 0.02 USD/kw there is not big intuitive for big farms to spend big on better efficiency.
I personally do not like the way Chinese eat everybody and everything , but still this is an open market and Chinese are faster and way more efficient than us , so they win Wink

And we still live better in USA and EU..

Mitak

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Quote from: wttbs on January 18, 2016, 09:42:58 AM

If you want to buy Rev3 chips directly from Bitfury you must join their MOQ and pay $1M Shocked

So no way small companies can buy rev3 chips Sad

even if there is a company that buys chips thru MOQ and resells them price will be to high I guess...

Or.....
Small companies and independent designers can join together and reach this MOQ after they have proven working design.
From Niko's posts I understand that BFSB will be back online selling chips in small quantities for a margin of course

dropt

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Quote from: d57heinz on January 18, 2016, 09:59:41 AM

Quote from: adaseb on January 18, 2016, 09:46:28 AM

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

Because nothing in the bitcoin world is set in stone.. Hell it could be banned globally tomorrow.. Not that that would stop it but definitely would put a hurt on it if money cant be brought in or out with an exchange. But anyway the only sure bet is if you have demand for a chip.. Sell it sell the shit out of it to whomever will throw money your way.. Its not about btc anymore its about how places can take advantage of it while its going strong.. If Bitfury sells to chinese farms then i think we know where they stand.

Best Regards
d57heinz

Bitcoin is supposed to be non-discriminatory, would be pretty poor form to not allow the Chinese to buy chips.

d57heinz

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

Quote from: adaseb on January 18, 2016, 09:46:28 AM

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

Because nothing in the bitcoin world is set in stone.. Hell it could be banned globally tomorrow.. Not that that would stop it but definitely would put a hurt on it if money cant be brought in or out with an exchange. But anyway the only sure bet is if you have demand for a chip.. Sell it sell the shit out of it to whomever will throw money your way.. Its not about btc anymore its about how places can take advantage of it while its going strong.. If Bitfury sells to chinese farms then i think we know where they stand.

Best Regards
d57heinz

wttbs

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Quote from: adaseb on January 18, 2016, 09:46:28 AM

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

You are right about that, but I don't have $1M so I can't buy chips to build miners and go mining... Even if I want to buy rev3 chips for like $10000 or $50000, no chance how things look right now...

baazju

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Quote from: adaseb on January 18, 2016, 09:46:28 AM

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

Possibly why we haven't seen them offered to the public yet...

adaseb

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So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

wttbs

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If you want to buy Rev3 chips directly from Bitfury you must join their MOQ and pay $1M Shocked

So no way small companies can buy rev3 chips Sad

even if there is a company that buys chips thru MOQ and resells them price will be to high I guess...

Soros Shorts

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Quote from: 64dimensions on January 17, 2016, 10:06:51 AM

This chip could be a boost for the home miner because power costs are more of an issue.

Here are some back of the envelope numbers:

1) Roughly, a 135 chip configuration spec would look like about 6.35 Th and consume about 535W (135 x 47Gh/chip, 135 x 3.6W +10% )

2) Now factory miners have very cheap power. At $0.02/kW/h, difference between this and an S7 just in power cost is about $0.36 per day. So the ROI isn't there purely in terms of power savings.

I think the biggest problem for home mining today are miners with 3000+ RPM fans. The first 55nm BitFury M-card/H-card miners from 2013 were unique in that they required very little air flow to cool. I had one quietly running in my bedroom for almost 18 months before it burnt itself out.

I hope that someone will offer a silent, non-dense miner package for their 16nm chips.

el_rlee

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Quote from: dunand on January 17, 2016, 10:52:32 PM

Quote from: smracer on January 17, 2016, 02:27:01 PM

How do we know when the video was filmed? It could have been filmed months ago and just released.

Exactly. Just write the last 5-6 digits of the last block hash on a piece of paper near the board.

What would that proof? The chip could still be old.

adaseb

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Quote from: dogie on January 18, 2016, 06:48:38 AM

Quote from: dunand on January 17, 2016, 10:52:32 PM

Quote from: smracer on January 17, 2016, 02:27:01 PM

How do we know when the video was filmed? It could have been filmed months ago and just released.

Exactly. Just write the last 5-6 digits of the last block hash on a piece of paper near the board.

Serious question - does it actually matter when the video was made?

I was actually thinking the same thing. Why does it matter when it was made? If it was a few months ago, what does it mean?

dogie

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Quote from: dunand on January 17, 2016, 10:52:32 PM

Quote from: smracer on January 17, 2016, 02:27:01 PM

How do we know when the video was filmed? It could have been filmed months ago and just released.

Exactly. Just write the last 5-6 digits of the last block hash on a piece of paper near the board.

Serious question - does it actually matter when the video was made?

dunand

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Quote from: smracer on January 17, 2016, 02:27:01 PM

How do we know when the video was filmed? It could have been filmed months ago and just released.

Exactly. Just write the last 5-6 digits of the last block hash on a piece of paper near the board.

smracer

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How do we know when the video was filmed? It could have been filmed months ago and just released.

Micky25

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Quote from: d57heinz on January 17, 2016, 11:49:53 AM

would be nice if you didnt just fill chinese farms with this tech..

already enroute

Quote from: Eric Mu on January 16, 2016, 03:41:46 AM

We are in talks with them.

d57heinz

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

My hope is that you guys get this to market sooner than later.. With the threat of bitcoin being taken over by china we need another place to buy miners that doesnt support them in their takeover..

We have to get mining decentralized once again!! china having over 70% hash is no good whatsoever. Bitfury if you would please turn on about 500 peta and help to get the network back in check Wink

would be nice if you didnt just fill chinese farms with this tech.. Let them have there 28 nm while the rest of the world gets a new leader in asic technology!! Wishing you all the luck in your journey!!!

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/41dizq/the_rbtc_china_dispatch_episode_3_block_size/

Read thru that article gives you a good perspective of how they arent the least bit concerned about anyone but themselves!

Best Regards
d57heinz

64dimensions

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This chip could be a boost for the home miner because power costs are more of an issue.

Here are some back of the envelope numbers:

1) Roughly, a 135 chip configuration spec would look like about 6.35 Th and consume about 535W (135 x 47Gh/chip, 135 x 3.6W +10% )

2) Now factory miners have very cheap power. At $0.02/kW/h, difference between this and an S7 just in power cost is about $0.36 per day. So the ROI isn't there purely in terms of power savings.

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