Topic: BitMarket.Eu has closed down - page 16. (Read 204282 times)

1. There are no "frozen coins" for there are no coins at all. All the coins were lost by M4v3r when he gambled with his customers' money.
2. There is no bail-out plan because bitmarket.eu ceases to exists. Actually, you're bailing-out M4v3r not bitmarket.eu! The only asset bitmarket.eu has (the source code) is effectively intercepted by another entity.
3. In addition to customers' bitcoins now M4v3r gets a bonus - the proceeds from the source code sale! That's really sweet.

How much will you be paying M4v3r for the source, mralbi? I hope that money will be enough to settle his debt to the 11 non-cooperative customers and have some left for the celebration party?

even if the balance is very small like 2 BTC, I assume there would not be any preferred payouts, as there are simply no bitcoins.

You can
a) wait till the new operation starts and Maciej is able to pay back some amount(s) over time
b) Make an official claim and go via the legal route, probably not worth it for 2 BTC
c) Join the investors and add additional new money/time to make the project work

btw

can someone of the admins, release my 2btc in the bitmarket.eu now ?
simply return them to my payout address, please
thank you in advance

best regards
pazor

Becoin: I don't know if you have frozen coins on Bitmarket or not, but the whole point of me getting payment for the website and consulting is to get funds so I can repay the debts. I don't take any profits from the sale to myself - it will all go to the users, which could be easily proven (prices will be announced and all creditors will receive detailed reports about actions taken).
You could argue that the users should decide, but in case I don't do it, no one gets any money back - I can't really pay back the users with source code. So really the discussion is pointless.

Are you really asking me to prove M4v3r owes money to his customers?!

unless you win a court case against him to put him officially into bankruptcy you can try to veto for yourself as much as you want. We have identified only 11 non-cooperative users so far, the vast majority actively supports in principle our bail out plan and we would try to give our best to make this happen and create a good website.

In case someone would pay more for the technology please feel free to join us investors, PM me and make this bail out project happen. It took us a big effort with many hours of discussion to acquire the current 50.000 Euros and this is just a limited capital for a lot of things to do..... We all have frozen coins and would like to be reimbursed for our losses

Nice position, proof it with some law . Maybe you are right and I never heard of this law.

The code is not property of M4v3r but property of his creditors/customers as he has publicly admitted he owes them money he can't currently repay!

I do not see users in any position of decision legal wise. The code is property of M4v3r until it is sold or he is sued and sentenced to give up his property.

What will happen with the proceeds of this sale?

What if current creditors (all bitmarket customers) do not agree with the price?

Dear Bitmarket.eu "stakeholders",

Last week-end from 15-17.3.2013 we had an investors' "kick-off" meeting in Helsinki about the situation of bitmarket.eu, and we just wanted to inform everyone quickly about the main decision points:

1) Bitmarket.eu operations will be closed down. The site will only be left open to handle the old frozen coin issues for which Maciej as the owner of bitmarket.eu is responsible.

2) The group of investors will create a new legal entity in form of a newly founded Aktiengesellschaft with seat in Germany. The company name will be "BiTalo AG" with a website at www.bitalo.com (also bitalo.org and bitalo.net have been registered).

3) So far we have acquired a starting capital of minimum 50.000 euros from a small group of investors. It is still possible to contact us for additional investment of NEW money.

4) It will not be possible to bring in "frozen coins" as shares to the new company, as this is not feasible from a legal point of view. We are still investigating possible solutions for treating "frozen coins" as a long-term investment.

5) Maciej, who represents bitmarket.eu, will sell the code of the old site to the new company, while the user database and debts will remain as his responsibility. Maciej will not be a shareholder nor participate in the administration of the new co-operation.

6) The goal of the new company is to create a new platform with new trading and market functions and efficient security measures so no admin can access a user's bitcoins without consent of the user. Old bitmarket.eu users may create an account on the new site if they wish, but the new company has no obligations towards them.

7) The plan is to start with 6 persons: 3 persons in the management board and 3 in the supervisory board in official roles. They will be paid no salary until the site is profitable.

The new company will invest the starting capital into the development of a new site and therefore employ Maciej as a consultant. Additional developers will be hired, and one of Maciej's main duties will be to transfer his knowledge of how the code works to new developers and administrators.

9) As long as the new company employs Maciej, he will use part of his income to reimburse frozen coins. A more detailed payback plan might be announced on the old bitmarket.eu website by Maciej. The new company will only be responsible to verify that Maciej fulfills this duty.

10) In case additional people are interested in participation and/or investments, just contact mralbi by PM.

Regarding the address of our bitmarket-admin, there is also the possibility to submit a request to the domain-register (eurid.eu). One has to submit an application form, that could be written in any of the european languages.

The application form on the german eurid-website:
http://www.eurid.eu/de/eu-domaininhaber/domain-streitigkeiten/kontaktaufnahme-zu-einem-domaininhaber

First when I visited the eurid-website I could not find the application form. So I wrote an e-mail to [email protected] and told them what happend with bitmarket.eu and why I would like them to disclose the address of the registrant (i.e. our beloved bitmarket-admin).
Although I still have to submit the application, their answer was quite promising and they also sent me the german version of the application form (because the form in the link above is in english).

Should I get the address of the registrant it is very likely, that I am not allowed to share it with the public, so if anyone is also interested in the address of our bitmarket-admin, you may give it a chance and submit a request to eurid.

M4v3R,

I'm not sure if my PM reached you, so here's my request again.
Since the reopening of the site will probably take some time, I'd like to withdraw what's left of my balance to 13rTvLez5kKD4FThpqaYNenkMNhXbhCXLz.

Account: crispy (deposit addr. 15R9jtZ5UiCBhhB1MjErEd4t8o6RiU9H62)
Obviously, I don't want to disclose my password here. If you use PGP, I'll send you my password in encrypted email.
Alternately, if you tell me which hashing algorithm you used, I'd gladly provide you with the password's hash.

Thanks.

Appendix A: Napkin of expectations
During the last intrusion, the wallet's content wasn't stolen completely, only BTC 620. On different occasions, you said there were between BTC 100 and 120 left.
This gives a "survival rate" of 100/(100+620) = 13.8888…% to 120/(120+620) = 16.2162…%.

I had around BTC 22 to 22.5 in my account, of which – using prev. rates – there should be between BTC 3.05 and 3.65 left.
It's not much, but for once, I want to be the one responsible should these go missing… ;)

We all know that we got scamed by a foolish polish a*****, that stole our money
for some gambling, we are all very angry, some of us lost a lot of money. We all
want to have at least a part of the money back. Maybee some want revenge, maybee
some even want to show morality or whatever.

I don`t mind, I just want to recover my money, I totaly agree with mralbi, and - by the way-
I would like to thank him for his affords to move something here and for keeping a cool mind
even if he lost most of all of us.

Maybee at this point we should split the Forum at two parts:
One for the founding of a new bitmarket.eu, and one for those that like to take legal actions.

I supose this would be better for everyone...





 

If someone is still a potential investor and would like to join our investors meeting next weekend in Helsinki please PM me, the agenda is ready by now.

Spot on, only trouble is you are light years ahead, contacted lawyers spoke with them and went to the police 2 months ago. Now getting accused of stalling the process??

no, i am not a legal expert, but trust me, since i have more frozen coins than you for sure, the first thing i did after realizing that my coins were lost was doing my own research on what my legal opportunities are, this included getting professional legal advice on how should i proceed to get my frozen coins back, how much the costs would be and the chances to actually see some money.

From this assessment i came to the conclusion that taking Maciejs offer to cooperate and help us to reopen a new and bestter service is the only way that we have a chance to get coins actually back. We now have setup a team to start the bailout process were some highly motivated people (who have nothing to do with the loss of the old bitcoins!) actually invest a lot of their free time PLUS their private savings to make this happen and we actually would appreciate a bit more constructive cooperation and discuss ideas out of the mess.

Instead we are just discussing destructive topics on how much a courtcase might cost etc.

Are you some kind of legal expert? Not all crimes require intent. The proof of negligence is often enough, for example negligent homicide. The fact is that M4v3R took (knowingly and willingly) something that didn't belong to him, used it for his own intents and purposes, and subsequently lost it. Whether or not that is a crime is best left to the judicial system to decide.

You don't actually need to go into the details on bitcoins and their value, like you don't need to explain why tokens of fiat money printed on paper have some value. You just need to explain that bitcoins are a form of digital goods.

yeah, legally speaking it simply not a "crime" in the legal sense, unless you can prove that he INTENTIONALLY lost the coins or that he INTENDED to "steal" them. When he says explicitally that this was NOT intended (as he does) it is basically impossible to prove the opposite.

Even though he had no right to gamble with your coins, you cannot assume from that, that he "stole" them or did this in any way intentionally.

I mean you have the right to be reimbursed for your loss, but it is not a crime. The ONLY thing you can do is to sue him for the damage he caused to you and that is

a) tricky to prove
b) useless for the above metioned reasons


The government and all the crappy police institutions plus courts etc. are unfortunately NOT here to help you, they don't give a shit, they are just there for their own sake of being paid by the tax payer.

PS: 15 min at the police? Last time it took me already 45 min queueing and after that 1 hour just to explain what a bitcoin is and why it has value, lol