Topic: Bitstarz Removes 3.45 Btc Balance According to Breaking Bonus Terms - page 7. (Read 11028 times)

Wow you did change a few things, and you haven't resorted to spamming huge promos images and telling other users to "ignore the trolls".  That's good.

I really think you should feel obligated to be actively informing players who have violated the max bet rule as soon as possible.  I can't imagine how shitty it must feel to be that guy who fires 15 or 20 deposits at you before finally winning something decent only to find out that he literally never had a chance because he was betting 6 euro per spin.  (The same goes for the guy who gets a withdraw rejected on his second deposit)

I was def surprised to see that those Malta Casinos were able to use the same max bonus terms, there are certainly more than I thought, but I wasn't able to check them all bc of my location.

Two of the sites you mentioned basically said they don't enforce this rule unless they believe there is some sort of fraud.



By the way, whos call is it to enforce this rule?

I can tell you guys are set up a little different than most of the others, how different is it though?



Did you drop Glam Life? 
Could you tell Betsoft to fuck off if you wanted to?

There's nothing wrong about a max-bet rule, the problem is not enforcing it on your server and then using it against players when they want to withdraw. As TwitchySeal aptly described it, it's a predatory rule that's designed to be broken. You've unfairly taken thousands upon thousands of dollars of players money because of it.

If it's really so hard for you to enforce a max-bet on your server,  there's a simple fix. Every night do a db query, search for everyone who violated the rule and refund that bet (be it a winning or losing bet). Now it's no longer predatory, as you're not raping people who make a mistake or otherwise didn't closely read the ToS.

sounds bad if it happened, but I know the site looks good and great

Hi there,

Fair enough, we're willing to do what we can to make this rule more visible, so
we'll be adding it to the deposit page, so you can see it when you deposit, and
also the general terms area.

We're also working on a technical solution for this of course.

Any other place?

Mike

Mike,

How many casinos can you name that have this rule and aren't using softswiss software?  I'll give you a list 10x as long of casinos that don't and would lose their license if they did.

The rule exists only to be violated.  It doesn't protect the casino from anything, it does create a potential vulnerability in players for you to exploit.  It's predatory.

In the short run Im sure it seems like a brilliant idea.  But it's not only damaging your rep, it's turning people off from gambling for bitcoin and even just bitcoin.

I know you didn't write the rules or decide where they are displayed, but please, pay attention to this:

Unless a player has already landed on https://www.bitstarz.com/promotions, any hyperlink within the site titled "Terms & Conditions" will bring them to: https://www.bitstarz.com/terms
(this is the 4,000+ word version that does not mention the max bet rule)

If a player navigates to https://www.bitstarz.com/promotions, then clicks on "Terms & Conditions" next to a specific promotion (not on the bottom of the page) they will remain on https://www.bitstarz.com/promotions and a popup with BONUS TERMS AND CONDITIONS will appear.  (it's 2,000+ words, with this rule located on the bottom third)

Your promotional emails link directly to https://www.bitstarz.com/bonus-terms-and-conditions, which is the same as the pop-up one would get from https://www.bitstarz.com/promotions

So...Some of your examples below, like the Terms link when signing up, will never bring you to the max bet rule.  And some of them will bring only those who have already navigated to /promotions page.

Example, before signing up, a user checks out terms and conditions:
(lands on https://www.bitstarz.com/terms reads 4,000 words, is not informed of max bet)



PS: Some of Your Betsoft Progressive Jackpots are fraudulent (For example, 1% is getting taken by Betsoft while GlamLife, Some of the Larger Greedy Goblins and Bad Girl Jackpots are unwinnable, also Pocketdice just scammed a player for BTC102, you should drop them both as providers.  I'll be back to explain soon, or you could research it yourself.

Hi again,

Here's the rule:

http://screencast.com/t/R30vMvXXl

It can be found here:

http://screencast.com/t/u8LITm1F

And here:

http://screencast.com/t/QPxaGmm8Zai

And here:

http://screencast.com/t/BYqArtEf

And here:

http://screencast.com/t/ugdsbxsOZos

There are many more spots, but you get the point.

You also have to realize that we cannot type out all the terms and conditions on the
promotions page as it will look like a big mess, hence having a terms and conditions
link in a lot of places on the page.

And even though you can always argue that this particular point should be visible,
everyone with a rule that relates specifically to their case would wish the same thing.

Mike

Hi there,

Again, this is one of the most common rules at online casinos. I would recommend
checking the terms and conditions at other online casinos and I'm sure you'll see the same one.

We do our best to inform players about this rule, but you'd be surprised to hear that ways
that we and many are obvious when it comes to displaying this, there's always going to
be players not noticing it.

Again, we always write out that terms and conditions apply, remind people on the chat when
we're discussing bonuses, etc.

Mike

The rule is bullshit, but you didn't make it and I doubt you (you, as in Bitstarz) could change it even if you wanted.  Right?
Am I wrong  or would a decision like that be made by the same people that are running many other casinos ( Direx N.V. or Softswiss maybe?, or are they the same people?  )

It may seem like a normal rule every casino has to you, but I can assure you that you will only find it at unregulated casinos, or casinos that might as well be unregulated from a players perspective.

Let's just assume that "Bitstarz" really wants to be an honest Casino and for some reason they aren't allowed to change this max bet rule.

If they were to take the following three steps, I think they would have a valid argument that what their doing isn't wrong or require any (omg) technical implementation.

1.) Tell every single player that violates the rule.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, if a player deposits $500, receives a bonus, and loses it playing $10 hands of blackjack, you don't bother to let him know his $500 was torched the minute the first card was dealt, do you?

What if he does it 20 more times over the next year before finally getting lucky and clearing the bonus with a balance of $5k?
See where I'm going with this?  See how fucked up it is to do this to your players?


2.) Put the same amount of effort into making sure players are aware your deposit bonuses as they are this max bet rule.   

Right now a lawyer could easily spend hours studying your terms and conditions and not even be aware this rule exists.

Don't believe me?

Scroll down to the bottom of your site (where the t&c are traditionally found)
Click on terms and conditions and read the whole thing.
https://www.bitstarz.com/terms

Wow, you're fast!, that was 4,506 words.
The word "bonus" was used 17 times.  
No mention of max bet rule though. Not even a link to somewhere else that mentions it.

Maybe in the FAQ that has a separate "Bonus Section"?
Nope, not even under FAQ: Bonuses ("Why are you keeping my money?" might be a good one to add)

To find this max bet rule, one must click on "Terms and Condition" that's found in the promo advertisements.  (Not the bottom of the page)
These seperate T&C are 2,059 words long, the rule can be found around word #1,578.

(25 mbtc is like 14 euro btw)

Also you're banners need to looks something like this:




PS: There's a bunch of other little scummy  non-transparent tactics I found if you're interested.  Other casinos start ignoring me about now so, thought I'd ask.

I find this really hard to believe. You already have the means to check if someone exceeded the max bet (which you use for taking all their money). As a coder, who's worked on a handful of gambling sites -- I don't believe it's going to take more than a handful of lines of code to enforce the condition on the server in real-time, and spit out an ugly error. This is something that should've been from day 1 anyway.

And if it *really* was so hard to enforce a max-bet limit, if you guys had an iota of ethics you would choose between:

a) Giving players a free pass, until you finished the enforcement implementation
b) Revert all bets that exceeded the max-bet be them win or loses, and tell the player about the rule


But instead you've used selective-enforcement to fleece your customers, even for unrelated funds. The scariest part is, I worry that you guys are so damaged as to genuinely believe that it's ok to take all of someones money because they didn't read your terms of service and unknowingly bet too much.

Lol they are still trying to defend themselves while %90 of bitcointalk players claim them as "scam".

So left this scam casino alone with its negative feedback and play any other "reliable" casino.

So if the players loses his money breaking the bonus terms? Will the casino freeze the player account and offered to refund back his balance and tell him about the terms and conditions?

This is scam, when players wins, they uses terms and conditions to prevent payout to customer.

Hi there,

I'm not sure what your definition of a "scam" is, but if you break
the rules that you've agreed to, that's a very interesting choice of words,
and an outright slanderous claim.

This is one of the most common bonus rules in any casino and we remind players
on the chat when they come ask, and the terms and conditions of the bonus are
displayed in multiple places of the website.

To make a technical implementation about a limit takes a lot of time and resources
but it's in the making. The pop-up functionality won't be able to get sorted in the mobile
in the near function as it's not supported, but the desktop pop-up warning for going over
the limit will be faster for us to develop.

Mike

this is a big scam because they violates own rule . i don't think it os a rule of maximum betting amount . if maximum betting amount is 0.025btc then why thier program of site allow you to bet . i think it is totally a scam of bitstrad .

Bitstarz again, this casino scammed so many loyal customers and winners. Screw itself. 

Another case when ToS of gambling service means nothing and can be changed at will by site's owner. I wonder if bad publicity and negative reviews are worth that 3.45 BTC.
Because money can be earned back, but trust is a lot harder to earn and potentially could be lost forever.

If you want to keep this friendly, compensate your victims, you fraudster!