Topic: Bitstarz Removes 3.45 Btc Balance According to Breaking Bonus Terms - page 4. (Read 11028 times)

And automatic.

Hi all,

Very valid point earlier that I'd like to mention again. The max bonus only applied
to BONUSES. If you play with cash money, you can play however you like and withdraw
anytime you like. Accepting bonuses is not mandatory, it's voluntarily.

Mike

Hi there,

We've been over this so many times now. But I'll say it again. Max bet with bonus is a common thing, and the major casinos
out there are doing it. Technical implementations to get it restricted technically takes time, but it's on the way. Ultimately
it's the player's responsibility to follow the terms of the site they're using, and it doesn't go for just casinos, it goes for Netflix,
iTunes, or whatever you may use.

If you do not agree with the terms, then perhaps another site will suit you better.

Mike

No, but at the same time, the player has some rights on his money. The behavior was obviously predatory, although there are other casinos with similar predatory terms, none actually enforce them like they did. Some terms are expected to be enforced only when necessary to prevent abuse or fraud.

Yes, the casino can do whatever they want.  Nobody is denying that.

If they want to establish and enforce highly predatory terms, they can.

That's what Bitstarz is doing.

LOL @ highly predatory behavior. The casino is giving the player bonus funds. They can set whatever terms they want on it. Its the player that chose to take the bonus and thereby responsible for knowing the rules of the bonus. If a player chooses he can simply NOT take a bonus and alleviate any problems when it comes time to cashout. Is that to hard to understand?

Ok. So you unknowingly broke a rule that they've punished other people for doing so, but you fortunately got a free pass (probably because they calculated the life time value of having you as a customer is greater than the amount of your withdrawal). But I'm just going to project here a little, and I suspect if had been like one of the other guys who lost 3.45 (like the OP) and 20 (?) bitcoin due to the very same mistake you wouldn't be so happy.


Anyway, obviously they don't screw over /all/ their players, that just wouldn't make business sense. It's probably pretty safe to assume for every 1 customer they royally screw, there's another 10,000 they don't. But that doesn't make it ok. You don't get brownie points for doing the right thing.


--

(And for everyone, I apologize for keep beating this horse, as they've already said they're finally going to fix the problem, which is fantastic. I just find it mind blowing that anyone could defend what is obviously highly predatory behavior and selective enforcement)

ty for coming and informing us with your success with bitscams after 2 and half years later!

I play at Bitstarz all the time and never have any issue getting paid. The first time I ever played, I won a fairly large amount and violated the max bet rule without knowing it. They pointed out the rule (yes, it IS there!), and I acknowledged I screwed up and agreed not to do it again. They let me slide, which was nice of them. They didn’t have to let me slide because the rules are the rules and this is a common rule in a lot of casinos I’ve checked with, I just didn’t know about it myself, but that was my stupid mistake, not theirs. Why should they get blamed if I don’t read the rules? Anyways, like I said, that was nice of them.

Just because they let me slide, does that mean they should let everyone slide? What about people who keep breaking the rules after being told not to? What about people creating fake accounts and pretending not to know the rules each time? Obviously they have to draw the line somewhere and that’s their decision whether or not to let someone slide. It doesn’t make them shady. Bitstarz is legit and fair in my opinion. I’ve played there for months now and have never had any problem withdrawing winnings. With how many exit scams there are in the casino space, or casinos who let you deposit but never let you withdraw, I think it’s good to see companies like Bitstarz staying legit, even if you don’t like their rules. These guys seem to want to be around for a long time, and I’ll keep playing there.

Thank you bitcointalk community for your support to me and this topic will be still alive and active. Many users bump this topic and justify me.

If bitstarz pay back my stolen btcs 3.45, i'll lock this topic and remove my negative feedback on their profile. You are losing credibility everyday while this topic going online.

I've been trtying to pry it out of him without success.

I want to know

-How many players have had cashouts affected.
-How much Bitstarz has profited.
-How often Bitstars "lets it slide"
-Ave size they "let slide" vs not slide
- In mikes honest opinion, if 100 people who had never gambled online before signed up and deposited at Bitstarz with instructions to be sure to read the terms, how many would place a bet over the maximum.
-In mikes honest opinion, is guy who had 20 BTC taken from him have any malicious intent or any intent whatsoever other than to deposit his money and gamble at their site. (was posting earlier in the thread)  

I agree with you - sort of.

In a tradition regulated model, there's a third party looking out for both the casino and the player (in exchange for a fat cut)

With the regulator out of the picture (no curacao doesn't count), the responsibility of the regulator is basically up for grabs.  Right now the casinos are just assuming the roll of regulator.  The players can either let the casino do what they want, or they can speak up - organize themselves somehow and demand to be treated fairly.  I think it's inevitable that's going to happen, just trying to get things moving along.  Were stil in the stone ages of unregulated crypto gambling imo.

I'm sure Mike has the data but how many players are actually betting over $15USD a spin on the slots and are on a bonus to break the max bet rule?  Too many bitcoin nerds in the thread here that have no understanding really of online casinos and most won't ever get a clue or they simply responding only to shill for their sig. Mike has pointed out this is fairly common amongst the biggest online casinos to have max bet rules. AFAIK most of them have control over settings of the slots by Microgaming and NetEnt to control bet settings if a player is on a bonus. You hit the max bet button by mistake and you're on a deposit bonus with terms then youre fucked. It's that simple.  I've seen it MANY times in the past on Casinomeister a player loses his winnings because he broke one of the terms and conditions set forth by the casinos. They make the rules its up to the player to make sure they are following them and that usually involves the player getting deep into EVERY term and condition on the website they choose to play. I'm a seasoned veteran of online play and any new casino I think about playing at I go through the terms and conditions meticulously. Players get greedy and want that 100-1000% bonus or whatever the casino is offering to get them to sign up and then don't pay any attention to the terms and conditions and spin away. Only after they accrued a big balance and broke a term do they come crying on the forums how the casino screwed them.

if they do that they cant steal money from players as masked as bet max rule which is in their long long tos which they know most of the players will not read it so they letting players to bet over max and if they win bitscams stealing

One thing i dont know that you are telling that you have mentioned in the rule of terms and condition of how much maximum a players should play, and if they are not reading the terms and condition that becomes the fault by the gambler(player) side.

When you have the maximum limit then why dont you put that maximum and minimum in your betting slot itself why will the gambler(player) will go and read the full rule books.

It is from your side that you have to maintain the maximum and minimum betting in your own site so that who ever is gambling can know by putting betting bitcoin so that if he/she is betting higher then the maximum limit then that game should not run and should give warning of bet going above maximum limit.

This way the gambler(players) will get caution and they wont be able to bet above maximum limit and this way both of them (the site and the gambler(players)) are getting saved by unnecessary problems.

'Check out RHavers site...' i really googled before i asked... May i know which url? Pardon me for newbie questions ☺

The way they take the balance from players sure sounds fishy. In my opinion because they haven't made it blocked by software to make "illegal" bets, they shouldn't make players suffer from not reading the terms completely. Doesn't even sound shilly. You made a good point and I agree completely.

Bitstarz is definitely better than many and I'm not calling them a scam, but the reality is that it's very possible for a player, especially a new player, to sign up for one of these sites without any malicious intentions and have a huge amount of money taken from them.   This is bad for everyone.

The fact that they are only letting slide actually makes it worse if they are letting the small ones slide and taking the big ones, which I suspect is the case.

Also, fyi, there are plenty of bitcoin sites out there that are doing very well and have never seized a single satoshi.

Check out RHavers site, almost $30 million usd worth of bitcoin wagered in last 30 days.

No bonuses, instant payout, fully transparent, no bullshit.  (sorry to sound shilly, just making a point)

Seal,

I'm all for calling out scummy casinos and believe me theres many of them online. But you are going over the line here with Bitstarz. As you know probably the worst of all online casinos is BTC Casino. Bitstarz is one of the decent more reputable bitcoin casinos. Yes they have a max bet term however for bitcoin players that amount has always been .025btc. In dollar value that has been $15-17 bet given the BTC price. To me thats more than a fair bet to limit players on. Granted this .025 was adopted way back when BTC price was around $200 which reflected a more industry standard $5 max bet term. The fact is they haven't changed it even though the price of BTC keeps rising. I have no issues with them having this rule in place as for 95%+ of most gamblers who take the welcome bonus or any other deposit bonus DO NOT bet more than $15 per spin on the slots. Only a super high roller would be placing bets like this and most of those are educated enough that they wouldn't take a bonus. Mike's already pointed out several well-known huge online casinos that have these same max bet terms. Why are you not going on a true casino forum such as Casinomeister and blasting them?

I don't play on Bitstarz often but when I have they have always paid fast and I have never had a issue. If I'm going to play somewhere with a bonus though I will play at a casino with zero bet/game restrictions and there are a few of them around. But if I want to play without a bonus I rotate Bitstarz in occasionally.

Hi there,

You can of course believe whatever you like, that's up to you. I believe we've given
our side of the story and then it's up to people to make up their own minds.

Yeah we figured you think so already as you've mentioned it a few times, have
a great weekend man.

Mike

The reason for the max bet rule is that you think it's more profiltable.  Period.

I'm telling you it really pisses players off.  It makes players lose trust in you , bitcoin and online gambling - and with good reason.

You shouldn't take one of your customers money unless you're damn sure they are guilty of something serious.  Doesn't matter if it's 1 satoshi or BTC20  Doesn't matter if you gave them a bonus or not. Don't take someones money unless you are sure they are guilty. 

If a single player has their funds taken by you that had no malicious intentions, you failed.  If you don't do everything in your power to prevent it from happening again.  You're scummy.