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Topic: [Boxing]: Manny Pacquiao vs Errol Spence Jr - August 21 - page 9. (Read 8247 times)

hero member
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Spence is not inactive, he fought last year against Danny Garcia and won via unanimous decision, and remember, that was his first fight after a major car accident, but he still win and dominate. While Pacman has not fought for over 2 years already, his last fight was July 2019 against Thurman.

Spence was so good in his fight against Garcia that you would not think there was a car incident that happened, it's out of the question I never think Pacquiao will have an edge because of that accident, he will have an edge because of his vast experience and preparedness, Spence having gone the distance and totally dominate Garcia is a sign that he can go the distance and maintain his aggressiveness throughout the fight and for me, this is the biggest concern of Pacquiao's camp.
One of them will show weakness as the fight drag on and will be apparent in the latter rounds.

He was good but I'm not impressed with his win, it's very obvious that Spence was the stronger guy but Garcia was not fast so it will be a different animal Spence will face in his coming fight and I think he will struggle if he is not smart with his counter punching or the way he will pressure Manny Pacquiao.
hero member
Activity: 1344
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Spence is not inactive, he fought last year against Danny Garcia and won via unanimous decision, and remember, that was his first fight after a major car accident, but he still win and dominate. While Pacman has not fought for over 2 years already, his last fight was July 2019 against Thurman.

Spence was so good in his fight against Garcia that you would not think there was a car incident that happened, it's out of the question I never think Pacquiao will have an edge because of that accident, he will have an edge because of his vast experience and preparedness, Spence having gone the distance and totally dominate Garcia is a sign that he can go the distance and maintain his aggressiveness throughout the fight and for me, this is the biggest concern of Pacquiao's camp.
One of them will show weakness as the fight drag on and will be apparent in the latter rounds.

Yeah, but I would say that it was not a 100% Spence during the Garcia fight. Nevertheless even if not 100%, he beat a former champion, so that tells how good or superior Spence it. So now that the accident was no issue, for sure he is more motivated now to beat the legend. However, it will not be an easy task because Manny has advantage on experience and Spence will know now how good Manny is, even others say he is way past his prime already.
legendary
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Those who are saying that Manny should retire does not believe Manny will continue to make history, yes, he is old and they are concerned about his age, but look how he fights, he keeps winning even against the young champion in his division, how can yous stop a man from fighting if he feels he can dominate the division?

They have doubts because of old age and years of inactivity compared to a fighter who is very active, very young, and considered to be one of the top fighter in boxing, I also doubt the first time but when I saw his training I come to believe that Manny Pacquiao still has what it takes, we'll see if Pacquiao will again conquer the world.

I think both of them are inactive, they just have 1 fight because of the obvious happenings around us. The advantage of Spence is that he is young and has the height advantage. But Pacquiao can conquer that odds as he has seen a lot of bigger guys and fought them hard. Yeah, Pacquiao is still more hungry and motivated specially that he is once again the underdog in a fight. And I'm sure he is inspired by the boxers of the Philippines in the Olympics winning medals for his country. So just imagine if he wins here, Philippines will have a lot to celebrate this August.
Well, manny Pacquiao is really unexpected, he's always showing good performance that we didn't expect the fight. Both boxers are inactive especially Pacman, except in the current situation which is pandemic, he's also a senator in our country so probably he's busy. I just realized that sports are very active in the Philippines; there are many popular athletes who represent the Philippines, and it makes us very proud. Imagine Pacquiao winning again this August, another celebration, and those who have bet on Pacquiao will undoubtedly have one.
legendary
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Spence is not inactive, he fought last year against Danny Garcia and won via unanimous decision, and remember, that was his first fight after a major car accident, but he still win and dominate. While Pacman has not fought for over 2 years already, his last fight was July 2019 against Thurman.

Spence was so good in his fight against Garcia that you would not think there was a car incident that happened, it's out of the question I never think Pacquiao will have an edge because of that accident, he will have an edge because of his vast experience and preparedness, Spence having gone the distance and totally dominate Garcia is a sign that he can go the distance and maintain his aggressiveness throughout the fight and for me, this is the biggest concern of Pacquiao's camp.
One of them will show weakness as the fight drag on and will be apparent in the latter rounds.
hero member
Activity: 2716
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Those who are saying that Manny should retire does not believe Manny will continue to make history, yes, he is old and they are concerned about his age, but look how he fights, he keeps winning even against the young champion in his division, how can yous stop a man from fighting if he feels he can dominate the division?

They have doubts because of old age and years of inactivity compared to a fighter who is very active, very young, and considered to be one of the top fighter in boxing, I also doubt the first time but when I saw his training I come to believe that Manny Pacquiao still has what it takes, we'll see if Pacquiao will again conquer the world.

I think both of them are inactive, they just have 1 fight because of the obvious happenings around us. The advantage of Spence is that he is young and has the height advantage. But Pacquiao can conquer that odds as he has seen a lot of bigger guys and fought them hard. Yeah, Pacquiao is still more hungry and motivated specially that he is once again the underdog in a fight. And I'm sure he is inspired by the boxers of the Philippines in the Olympics winning medals for his country. So just imagine if he wins here, Philippines will have a lot to celebrate this August.

Spence is not inactive, he fought last year against Danny Garcia and won via unanimous decision, and remember, that was his first fight after a major car accident, but he still win and dominate. While Pacman has not fought for over 2 years already, his last fight was July 2019 against Thurman.
hero member
Activity: 2660
Merit: 551


Those who are saying that Manny should retire does not believe Manny will continue to make history, yes, he is old and they are concerned about his age, but look how he fights, he keeps winning even against the young champion in his division, how can yous stop a man from fighting if he feels he can dominate the division?

They have doubts because of old age and years of inactivity compared to a fighter who is very active, very young, and considered to be one of the top fighter in boxing, I also doubt the first time but when I saw his training I come to believe that Manny Pacquiao still has what it takes, we'll see if Pacquiao will again conquer the world.

I think both of them are inactive, they just have 1 fight because of the obvious happenings around us. The advantage of Spence is that he is young and has the height advantage. But Pacquiao can conquer that odds as he has seen a lot of bigger guys and fought them hard. Yeah, Pacquiao is still more hungry and motivated specially that he is once again the underdog in a fight. And I'm sure he is inspired by the boxers of the Philippines in the Olympics winning medals for his country. So just imagine if he wins here, Philippines will have a lot to celebrate this August.
hero member
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Yes, but for now, Pacquiao and his team shouldn't bother themselves with that lawsuit. They need to focus on this big fight on the table, just a week from now, everything should be perfect, training should be unwinding by now as he don't want to overtrain himself and then followed by a strict nutritional diet to make the weight in the weigh-in Saturday.

All that's bothering Pacquiao have stopped the lawsuits the political squabbling, so much at stake here for Pacquiao, if he wins it will have a huge impact on his political ambition, this could well be his last fight as he is not getting younger and he has other goals outside of boxing, I'm hoping he'll win this fight and not get hurt, there's still so much left for Pacquiao in other fields where his country can benefit, whatever the outcome Pacquiao is a rare breed in boxing.
Speaking of Pacquiao to be a rare breed in boxing, it something  every boxing fans understand and that's the reason why Logan said hes happy that he choose Mayweather not Pacman.
With his unique breed in boxing I don't see this fight to be his last and I watch a video of his sparring outdoor in front If his fans it shows he's still pretty good and in shape.

There are many videos out in YT about training of Pacquiao, but haven't seen one yet from Spence. It seems, Spence's camp is discrete with their preparation. But Pacquiao's odds is going down a lil bit to 2.5, even betja with 3.0 before, now they are down to 2.62. Wonder how low it will go just days before the fight? Pacquiao can still pull a good number of audience, and if he wins this, won't be surprised if he will fight more.
About Spence not disclosing his training video for the preparation he and Pacman fight, I don't know if it is about the Spence camp being discrete or it Spence himself that was discrete, and if you check most of his social media account you'll see that he doesn't post most of his train session video like Pacman and others boxing fighter does.

Yes, but for now, Pacquiao and his team shouldn't bother themselves with that lawsuit. They need to focus on this big fight on the table, just a week from now, everything should be perfect, training should be unwinding by now as he don't want to overtrain himself and then followed by a strict nutritional diet to make the weight in the weigh-in Saturday.

All that's bothering Pacquiao have stopped the lawsuits the political squabbling, so much at stake here for Pacquiao, if he wins it will have a huge impact on his political ambition, this could well be his last fight as he is not getting younger and he has other goals outside of boxing, I'm hoping he'll win this fight and not get hurt, there's still so much left for Pacquiao in other fields where his country can benefit, whatever the outcome Pacquiao is a rare breed in boxing.
Speaking of Pacquiao to be a rare breed in boxing, it something  every boxing fans understand and that's the reason why Logan said hes happy that he choose Mayweather not Pacman.
With his unique breed in boxing I don't see this fight to be his last and I watch a video of his sparring outdoor in front If his fans it shows he's still pretty good and in shape.

Yeah he is still in good shape, but I read that there are haters saying that his abs is not as visible, Lol. That's their latest argument against him that he has really age and that he did take PEDS years ago.

But I'm one of those that believed Manny is clean and didn't use enhancement performance drug during his prime. It's natural talent and as you have said, just rare breed that we will only witness once in our lifetime. And he continue to amaze us with his fights with the young talents that we have right now.

I will fully agree with that as even before he got popular, he was already a heavy hitter and he has a lot of good fights. Manny is really gifted, no science could explain that, that's why even he is already 42 now, he still look young and sharp.

Forget about the age gap, that's the only advantage of Spence and I am not really sure if that is his advantage because as Manny is getting order, he also becomes a more experienced boxer, and with that said, it will be not easy for any opponent to beat him. Also, Manny knows how to choose his opponent, so we might not see what Manny saw when he chooses Spence, let's trust him if we are a fan of him.

odds update.

Spence 1.46
Pacquiao 2.55
@Jating, when people understand the uniqueness of an individual and how lucky he was they are intended to be jealous of the person that what lead to the haters' speech about Pacman.
@Maslate, passion is what brings dedication and dedication is what brings record breaking. Pacman's passion for boxing makes him an extraordinary person.
@freedomgo, I trust Pacman till the end but it is sad that some people still consider his age as a hindrance for him.

legendary
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Really large and you can maximize your win if you bet on Manny and if he wins. I hope there's someone here that will share his experience using the site, I'm sure it is not hard to register and deposit money, but since there's a KYC, then probably that's another thing, someone has to be willing to submit their information will only have a chance to gamble here.

That was really a nice odds but for that .2 to .3 difference, then just stick with a crypto-betting site unless you want to comply with KYC which is a common requirement for fiat bookies.

Checking stake.com, the odds for Manny Pacquiao was now on 2.6. In a span of 2 weeks, it's playing between 2.5 to 2.6 which is already a good pick to consider.

The odds for Pacquiao's winning methods are also attractive. Let's see.
hero member
Activity: 2828
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There have been great boxers in history who were beaten by their great followers and there were those who left undefeated. But there was not a single boxer who was not "beat" by his age  Wink Therefore, even if this is the only advantage, it is critical.
By the way, my local bookmaker gives much better odds for Pacquiao to win, if you are going to place a bet then you need to look for better options than the one you are showing.


2.97 - 20.00 - 1.44

https://www.fonbet.ru/sports/boxing/41380/28886636

Wow! nice odds.. does your local bookmakers accept crypto? or do they accept bettors outside the country?

I wish our local bookies have that kind of odds, unfortunately, the odds are based on the odds in the market which was shared already.
Also, if there's a crypto bookies that has that very attractive odds, please share here, and please no to site that would ask KYC.

This is an ordinary fiat bookmaker with KYC, I think foreigners have the opportunity to register there. Here is the FAQ In the upper right corner, you can select English and see everything that interests you. I am not registered there so I cannot tell you about all the nuances.
This was just an example of the fact that if you already decided to place a bet, then you need to carefully study the market, since the difference in the offered odds is very large.

Really large and you can maximize your win if you bet on Manny and if he wins. I hope there's someone here that will share his experience using the site, I'm sure it is not hard to register and deposit money, but since there's a KYC, then probably that's another thing, someone has to be willing to submit their information will only have a chance to gamble here.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1951
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
There have been great boxers in history who were beaten by their great followers and there were those who left undefeated. But there was not a single boxer who was not "beat" by his age  Wink Therefore, even if this is the only advantage, it is critical.
By the way, my local bookmaker gives much better odds for Pacquiao to win, if you are going to place a bet then you need to look for better options than the one you are showing.


2.97 - 20.00 - 1.44

https://www.fonbet.ru/sports/boxing/41380/28886636

Wow! nice odds.. does your local bookmakers accept crypto? or do they accept bettors outside the country?

I wish our local bookies have that kind of odds, unfortunately, the odds are based on the odds in the market which was shared already.
Also, if there's a crypto bookies that has that very attractive odds, please share here, and please no to site that would ask KYC.

This is an ordinary fiat bookmaker with KYC, I think foreigners have the opportunity to register there. Here is the FAQ In the upper right corner, you can select English and see everything that interests you. I am not registered there so I cannot tell you about all the nuances.
This was just an example of the fact that if you already decided to place a bet, then you need to carefully study the market, since the difference in the offered odds is very large.
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1292
Hhampuz for Campaign management
Forget about the age gap, that's the only advantage of Spence and I am not really sure if that is his advantage because as Manny is getting order, he also becomes a more experienced boxer, and with that said, it will be not easy for any opponent to beat him. Also, Manny knows how to choose his opponent, so we might not see what Manny saw when he chooses Spence, let's trust him if we are a fan of him.

odds update.

Spence 1.46
Pacquiao 2.55

There have been great boxers in history who were beaten by their great followers and there were those who left undefeated. But there was not a single boxer who was not "beat" by his age  Wink Therefore, even if this is the only advantage, it is critical.
By the way, my local bookmaker gives much better odds for Pacquiao to win, if you are going to place a bet then you need to look for better options than the one you are showing.


2.97 - 20.00 - 1.44

https://www.fonbet.ru/sports/boxing/41380/28886636

Wow! nice odds.. does your local bookmakers accept crypto? or do they accept bettors outside the country?

I wish our local bookies have that kind of odds, unfortunately, the odds are based on the odds in the market which was shared already.
Also, if there's a crypto bookies that has that very attractive odds, please share here, and please no to site that would ask KYC.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1951
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Forget about the age gap, that's the only advantage of Spence and I am not really sure if that is his advantage because as Manny is getting order, he also becomes a more experienced boxer, and with that said, it will be not easy for any opponent to beat him. Also, Manny knows how to choose his opponent, so we might not see what Manny saw when he chooses Spence, let's trust him if we are a fan of him.

odds update.

Spence 1.46
Pacquiao 2.55

There have been great boxers in history who were beaten by their great followers and there were those who left undefeated. But there was not a single boxer who was not "beat" by his age  Wink Therefore, even if this is the only advantage, it is critical.
By the way, my local bookmaker gives much better odds for Pacquiao to win, if you are going to place a bet then you need to look for better options than the one you are showing.


2.97 - 20.00 - 1.44

https://www.fonbet.ru/sports/boxing/41380/28886636
legendary
Activity: 3248
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Playbet.io - Crypto Casino and Sportsbook
Yes, but for now, Pacquiao and his team shouldn't bother themselves with that lawsuit. They need to focus on this big fight on the table, just a week from now, everything should be perfect, training should be unwinding by now as he don't want to overtrain himself and then followed by a strict nutritional diet to make the weight in the weigh-in Saturday.

All that's bothering Pacquiao have stopped the lawsuits the political squabbling, so much at stake here for Pacquiao, if he wins it will have a huge impact on his political ambition, this could well be his last fight as he is not getting younger and he has other goals outside of boxing, I'm hoping he'll win this fight and not get hurt, there's still so much left for Pacquiao in other fields where his country can benefit, whatever the outcome Pacquiao is a rare breed in boxing.
Speaking of Pacquiao to be a rare breed in boxing, it something  every boxing fans understand and that's the reason why Logan said hes happy that he choose Mayweather not Pacman.
With his unique breed in boxing I don't see this fight to be his last and I watch a video of his sparring outdoor in front If his fans it shows he's still pretty good and in shape.

Yeah he is still in good shape, but I read that there are haters saying that his abs is not as visible, Lol. That's their latest argument against him that he has really age and that he did take PEDS years ago.

But I'm one of those that believed Manny is clean and didn't use enhancement performance drug during his prime. It's natural talent and as you have said, just rare breed that we will only witness once in our lifetime. And he continue to amaze us with his fights with the young talents that we have right now.

I will fully agree with that as even before he got popular, he was already a heavy hitter and he has a lot of good fights. Manny is really gifted, no science could explain that, that's why even he is already 42 now, he still look young and sharp.

Forget about the age gap, that's the only advantage of Spence and I am not really sure if that is his advantage because as Manny is getting order, he also becomes a more experienced boxer, and with that said, it will be not easy for any opponent to beat him. Also, Manny knows how to choose his opponent, so we might not see what Manny saw when he chooses Spence, let's trust him if we are a fan of him.

odds update.

Spence 1.46
Pacquiao 2.55
hero member
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Yes, but for now, Pacquiao and his team shouldn't bother themselves with that lawsuit. They need to focus on this big fight on the table, just a week from now, everything should be perfect, training should be unwinding by now as he don't want to overtrain himself and then followed by a strict nutritional diet to make the weight in the weigh-in Saturday.

All that's bothering Pacquiao have stopped the lawsuits the political squabbling, so much at stake here for Pacquiao, if he wins it will have a huge impact on his political ambition, this could well be his last fight as he is not getting younger and he has other goals outside of boxing, I'm hoping he'll win this fight and not get hurt, there's still so much left for Pacquiao in other fields where his country can benefit, whatever the outcome Pacquiao is a rare breed in boxing.
Speaking of Pacquiao to be a rare breed in boxing, it something  every boxing fans understand and that's the reason why Logan said hes happy that he choose Mayweather not Pacman.
With his unique breed in boxing I don't see this fight to be his last and I watch a video of his sparring outdoor in front If his fans it shows he's still pretty good and in shape.

Yeah he is still in good shape, but I read that there are haters saying that his abs is not as visible, Lol. That's their latest argument against him that he has really age and that he did take PEDS years ago.

But I'm one of those that believed Manny is clean and didn't use enhancement performance drug during his prime. It's natural talent and as you have said, just rare breed that we will only witness once in our lifetime. And he continue to amaze us with his fights with the young talents that we have right now.

I will fully agree with that as even before he got popular, he was already a heavy hitter and he has a lot of good fights. Manny is really gifted, no science could explain that, that's why even he is already 42 now, he still look young and sharp.
hero member
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Yes, but for now, Pacquiao and his team shouldn't bother themselves with that lawsuit. They need to focus on this big fight on the table, just a week from now, everything should be perfect, training should be unwinding by now as he don't want to overtrain himself and then followed by a strict nutritional diet to make the weight in the weigh-in Saturday.

All that's bothering Pacquiao have stopped the lawsuits the political squabbling, so much at stake here for Pacquiao, if he wins it will have a huge impact on his political ambition, this could well be his last fight as he is not getting younger and he has other goals outside of boxing, I'm hoping he'll win this fight and not get hurt, there's still so much left for Pacquiao in other fields where his country can benefit, whatever the outcome Pacquiao is a rare breed in boxing.
Speaking of Pacquiao to be a rare breed in boxing, it something  every boxing fans understand and that's the reason why Logan said hes happy that he choose Mayweather not Pacman.
With his unique breed in boxing I don't see this fight to be his last and I watch a video of his sparring outdoor in front If his fans it shows he's still pretty good and in shape.

Yeah he is still in good shape, but I read that there are haters saying that his abs is not as visible, Lol. That's their latest argument against him that he has really age and that he did take PEDS years ago.

But I'm one of those that believed Manny is clean and didn't use enhancement performance drug during his prime. It's natural talent and as you have said, just rare breed that we will only witness once in our lifetime. And he continue to amaze us with his fights with the young talents that we have right now.
hero member
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.. and there's a hoax that if Manny Wins or lose the match he will not retire because of ageing too and we know he is already a senator also to serve the country.

I considered that not a hoax because there's still no plan for him, even giving a hint that he will retire soon.

Win or lose, he will still fight and more desire to fight again if he loses since he will demand a rematch to have a good exit and that's what he does when he is after a loss.

The only way for him to retire this year is if he will run for President and win it. There's no other way.

Yeah, why would he retire in boxing, although many wanted him to retire, it's up to him to decide whether to hang his gloves or not, the money is still very attractive, he is still a cash cow after all. He can still command 5-10 million next fight even if he losses.

Regarding his political career though, personally, I doubt that he will win and become the next President of the Philippines. This is just my opinion and others might think the otherway.

Those who are saying that Manny should retire does not believe Manny will continue to make history, yes, he is old and they are concerned about his age, but look how he fights, he keeps winning even against the young champion in his division, how can yous stop a man from fighting if he feels he can dominate the division?
hero member
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.. and there's a hoax that if Manny Wins or lose the match he will not retire because of ageing too and we know he is already a senator also to serve the country.

I considered that not a hoax because there's still no plan for him, even giving a hint that he will retire soon.

Win or lose, he will still fight and more desire to fight again if he loses since he will demand a rematch to have a good exit and that's what he does when he is after a loss.

The only way for him to retire this year is if he will run for President and win it. There's no other way.

Yeah, why would he retire in boxing, although many wanted him to retire, it's up to him to decide whether to hang his gloves or not, the money is still very attractive, he is still a cash cow after all. He can still command 5-10 million next fight even if he losses.

Regarding his political career though, personally, I doubt that he will win and become the next President of the Philippines. This is just my opinion and others might think the otherway.
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Yes, but for now, Pacquiao and his team shouldn't bother themselves with that lawsuit. They need to focus on this big fight on the table, just a week from now, everything should be perfect, training should be unwinding by now as he don't want to overtrain himself and then followed by a strict nutritional diet to make the weight in the weigh-in Saturday.

All that's bothering Pacquiao have stopped the lawsuits the political squabbling, so much at stake here for Pacquiao, if he wins it will have a huge impact on his political ambition, this could well be his last fight as he is not getting younger and he has other goals outside of boxing, I'm hoping he'll win this fight and not get hurt, there's still so much left for Pacquiao in other fields where his country can benefit, whatever the outcome Pacquiao is a rare breed in boxing.
Speaking of Pacquiao to be a rare breed in boxing, it something  every boxing fans understand and that's the reason why Logan said hes happy that he choose Mayweather not Pacman.
With his unique breed in boxing I don't see this fight to be his last and I watch a video of his sparring outdoor in front If his fans it shows he's still pretty good and in shape.

There are many videos out in YT about training of Pacquiao, but haven't seen one yet from Spence. It seems, Spence's camp is discrete with their preparation. But Pacquiao's odds is going down a lil bit to 2.5, even betja with 3.0 before, now they are down to 2.62. Wonder how low it will go just days before the fight? Pacquiao can still pull a good number of audience, and if he wins this, won't be surprised if he will fight more.
legendary
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That is not a bad price considering it costs $75 to watch the fight in the US. With the huge purses the fighters are making the cost gets passed down to the customer but the downside to charging so much is that many people will just opt to stream the fight illegally.
With some few searches away, they'll see those streamers that are illegally doing it.

But don't support those if you're capable of purchasing to watch through PPV. You know that you're part and contributor why boxing keeps going and those PPV won't be out since there are many that still watches through it.

I'm sure that such hefty prices per view for a single match is hurting the industry more than any number of "pirates" who view the event for free. In my opinion, this is some kind of backwardness and I do not know how to explain it. A huge amount of entertainment content is now free and has smart monetization methods like advertising, selling extra stuff, etc.
When I find out about the prices for watching such a match like $ 75 (even in the rich USA), I get angry and think first of all about what they should pay me to attract and not vice versa.
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Yes, but for now, Pacquiao and his team shouldn't bother themselves with that lawsuit. They need to focus on this big fight on the table, just a week from now, everything should be perfect, training should be unwinding by now as he don't want to overtrain himself and then followed by a strict nutritional diet to make the weight in the weigh-in Saturday.

All that's bothering Pacquiao have stopped the lawsuits the political squabbling, so much at stake here for Pacquiao, if he wins it will have a huge impact on his political ambition, this could well be his last fight as he is not getting younger and he has other goals outside of boxing, I'm hoping he'll win this fight and not get hurt, there's still so much left for Pacquiao in other fields where his country can benefit, whatever the outcome Pacquiao is a rare breed in boxing.
Speaking of Pacquiao to be a rare breed in boxing, it something  every boxing fans understand and that's the reason why Logan said hes happy that he choose Mayweather not Pacman.
With his unique breed in boxing I don't see this fight to be his last and I watch a video of his sparring outdoor in front If his fans it shows he's still pretty good and in shape.
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