Boxing Speculation, Odds and Predictions - page 16.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on July 06, 2024, 01:48:36 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on July 05, 2024, 07:55:25 PM

I'm surprised that no one is talking about Shakur Stevenson vs Artem Harutyunyan fight.

Where's our underdog boxing fans at? Are we going to see a upset or Shakur is not just overhype and will win this fight although it could be another snoozer of a fight, LOL. So let's see if Shakur win's here and call Tank Davis or Loma for his next big fight.

And if I'm not mistaken, this is Shakur's last fight with Top Rank and he says that he will not longer re-sign with Bob Arum.

Shakur’s fights tend to be boring sometimes, and it is hard to build excitement for those kind of fighters. Lightweight has some good fighters like Loma, Tank, Berinchyk, and Zepeda. Out of all those, Berinchyk seems the most willing to fight him, but he is with Top Rank so I’m not sure how well he can do by switching promoters. He could end up like Demetrius Andrade, because of his style everyone avoided him and he faded into irrelevance.

Agree, not sure what Top Rank is getting boxers that are good but not really a sell off to the fans. And it's most likely why Top Rank is setting him to fight in his native city so that at least it can attract some fans to watch his fight.

This could be hist last fight as I read his intentions to get out of Bob Arum, but not sure where he is going, to PBC and so he can fight with Tank Davis? And if so, perhaps he can't have Loma then as Loma remains loyal with Top Rank.

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Quote from: Kemarit on July 05, 2024, 07:55:25 PM

I'm surprised that no one is talking about Shakur Stevenson vs Artem Harutyunyan fight.

Where's our underdog boxing fans at? Are we going to see a upset or Shakur is not just overhype and will win this fight although it could be another snoozer of a fight, LOL. So let's see if Shakur win's here and call Tank Davis or Loma for his next big fight.

And if I'm not mistaken, this is Shakur's last fight with Top Rank and he says that he will not longer re-sign with Bob Arum.

Shakur’s fights tend to be boring sometimes, and it is hard to build excitement for those kind of fighters. Lightweight has some good fighters like Loma, Tank, Berinchyk, and Zepeda. Out of all those, Berinchyk seems the most willing to fight him, but he is with Top Rank so I’m not sure how well he can do by switching promoters. He could end up like Demetrius Andrade, because of his style everyone avoided him and he faded into irrelevance.

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I'm surprised that no one is talking about Shakur Stevenson vs Artem Harutyunyan fight.

Where's our underdog boxing fans at? Are we going to see a upset or Shakur is not just overhype and will win this fight although it could be another snoozer of a fight, LOL. So let's see if Shakur win's here and call Tank Davis or Loma for his next big fight.

And if I'm not mistaken, this is Shakur's last fight with Top Rank and he says that he will not longer re-sign with Bob Arum.

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Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on July 03, 2024, 06:35:21 AM

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on July 02, 2024, 10:03:08 PM

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on July 02, 2024, 05:17:39 AM

And Bam Rodriguez beat the legendary Estrada, although early on, Estrada score a flash knock down on Rodriguez, Bam continue his aggression and that body shot really put down Estrada for good. Here are the highlights of the fight,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSscLSVqfiU

It might be good for Rodriguez to move up to 118 lbs and fight the winner of Ioka vs Martinez, that will be huge specially if that happen in Japan (meaning Ioka beating Martinez this week).

Bam Rodriguez won very impressively and has added another big name to his resume. At 24 years old he is already considered one of the top pound for pound fighters. If his career continues on this trajectory he could soon become #1. While other fighters only care about money and protecting their records, Bam is building a legacy by facing the best available competition.

Yes, it's a very impressive win for Bam Rodriguez and I'm not that surprised that even if he is facing a legend, he is still a huge favorite going into that fight. And true, I read that Estrada, despite how he lost this fight, wanted a rematch, however, I'm not seeing Estrada going to win in the second fight as obviously the young Bam has more skills and we can clearly see the difference in terms of power.

Perhaps it was just the pride that keep Estrada looking for a rematch here, but based on the numbers, he was already outnumbers by the young Bam Rodriguez and you can clearly see the difference in power. Of course, experience wise we will give it to Estrada, but it was not enough as the upcoming Bam Rodriguez is too much and very eager to proved that he belong to the pound for pound list with this big devastating win.

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on July 03, 2024, 06:35:21 AM

In terms of Japanese, there are two names as champion, one is Ioka and then Kosei Tanaka. And if goes up to the next weight class at 118 lbs, all champions are Japanese, including the brother of Naoya Inoue. So imagine if he slayed all the Japanese in the higher or even at his weight class, he will cement his legacy for good.

It's just a cycle perhaps. There were years that the Philippines was taking over in the lower weight class but now they don't have any big champion in boxing as most of them have retired and no longer in their prime. So that's it, for now there are no competition as Japan is taking over, but sooner or later the Philippines will produce a lot of champions that will follow the footsteps of Manny Pacquaio or Nonito Donaire and carry their flag again.

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Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on July 03, 2024, 06:35:21 AM

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on July 02, 2024, 10:03:08 PM

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on July 02, 2024, 05:17:39 AM

~snip~

Bam Rodriguez won very impressively and has added another big name to his resume. At 24 years old he is already considered one of the top pound for pound fighters. If his career continues on this trajectory he could soon become #1. While other fighters only care about money and protecting their records, Bam is building a legacy by facing the best available competition.

Yes, it's a very impressive win for Bam Rodriguez and I'm not that surprised that even if he is facing a legend, he is still a huge favorite going into that fight. And true, I read that Estrada, despite how he lost this fight, wanted a rematch, however, I'm not seeing Estrada going to win in the second fight as obviously the young Bam has more skills and we can clearly see the difference in terms of power.

In terms of Japanese, there are two names as champion, one is Ioka and then Kosei Tanaka. And if goes up to the next weight class at 118 lbs, all champions are Japanese, including the brother of Naoya Inoue. So imagine if he slayed all the Japanese in the higher or even at his weight class, he will cement his legacy for good.

Regarding Bam Rodriguez, I think he deserved it, victory that really surprised everyone considering he is still very young but already has record as one of the great young boxers and is undefeated.
But he still needs lot of experience and maybe in the future we can see him become one of the best and even be able to win more titles from several different classes, the potential that Bam Rodriguez has is very large.

Japan is currently the place for champions and previously we knew that several years ago there was the Philippines and this country also previously had the best boxer who is said to be one of the best boxing legends of all time, namely Manny Pacquiao.
But now Japan is producing many young fighters who are truly very talented and have shown their prowess by having several championship titles for each class they participate in, but the best is still Inoue who has combined 3 championship titles.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on July 02, 2024, 10:03:08 PM

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on July 02, 2024, 05:17:39 AM

And Bam Rodriguez beat the legendary Estrada, although early on, Estrada score a flash knock down on Rodriguez, Bam continue his aggression and that body shot really put down Estrada for good. Here are the highlights of the fight,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSscLSVqfiU

It might be good for Rodriguez to move up to 118 lbs and fight the winner of Ioka vs Martinez, that will be huge specially if that happen in Japan (meaning Ioka beating Martinez this week).

Bam Rodriguez won very impressively and has added another big name to his resume. At 24 years old he is already considered one of the top pound for pound fighters. If his career continues on this trajectory he could soon become #1. While other fighters only care about money and protecting their records, Bam is building a legacy by facing the best available competition.

Yes, it's a very impressive win for Bam Rodriguez and I'm not that surprised that even if he is facing a legend, he is still a huge favorite going into that fight. And true, I read that Estrada, despite how he lost this fight, wanted a rematch, however, I'm not seeing Estrada going to win in the second fight as obviously the young Bam has more skills and we can clearly see the difference in terms of power.

In terms of Japanese, there are two names as champion, one is Ioka and then Kosei Tanaka. And if goes up to the next weight class at 118 lbs, all champions are Japanese, including the brother of Naoya Inoue. So imagine if he slayed all the Japanese in the higher or even at his weight class, he will cement his legacy for good.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on July 02, 2024, 10:03:08 PM

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on July 02, 2024, 05:17:39 AM

And Bam Rodriguez beat the legendary Estrada, although early on, Estrada score a flash knock down on Rodriguez, Bam continue his aggression and that body shot really put down Estrada for good. Here are the highlights of the fight,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSscLSVqfiU

It might be good for Rodriguez to move up to 118 lbs and fight the winner of Ioka vs Martinez, that will be huge specially if that happen in Japan (meaning Ioka beating Martinez this week).

Bam Rodriguez won very impressively and has added another big name to his resume. At 24 years old he is already considered one of the top pound for pound fighters. If his career continues on this trajectory he could soon become #1. While other fighters only care about money and protecting their records, Bam is building a legacy by facing the best available competition.

Correct, him and Haney are two of the youngest boxers that might have accomplished more as compared to their contemporaries but Haney though suffered that humiliating lost to Ryan Garcia already. But Bam was tested by the legendary Estrada and pass it with flying colours. And yes, his resume is not slowly building up as he has slayed one legendary already. And if he continue to chase the winner of Ioka vs. Martinez and he win, then another title belt for him and could be in the mix for pound for pound. Although this lower weight category doesn't have the love from those who are making the list. Although that Estrada will activate the rematch clause and so we might see a second fight between the two.

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Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on July 02, 2024, 05:17:39 AM

And Bam Rodriguez beat the legendary Estrada, although early on, Estrada score a flash knock down on Rodriguez, Bam continue his aggression and that body shot really put down Estrada for good. Here are the highlights of the fight,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSscLSVqfiU

It might be good for Rodriguez to move up to 118 lbs and fight the winner of Ioka vs Martinez, that will be huge specially if that happen in Japan (meaning Ioka beating Martinez this week).

Bam Rodriguez won very impressively and has added another big name to his resume. At 24 years old he is already considered one of the top pound for pound fighters. If his career continues on this trajectory he could soon become #1. While other fighters only care about money and protecting their records, Bam is building a legacy by facing the best available competition.

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^^ It was obvious that the younger Bam Rodriguez has so much power against the aging legend in Estrada, although it was Bam who scored a early knockdown, but Estrada came in strong. But the body shot that Bam throws was perfect as Estrada can't recover from that on any boxer for that matter.

You can hear the sound of it, like Roy Jones Jr, throwing a powerful body shot against Virgil Hill. So yeah, it will be good to see a unification fight with either Martinez or Ioka, as Bam said that he is favoring Ioka to win base on his technical abilities.

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Quote from: Baofeng on June 06, 2024, 06:02:55 AM

I haven't seen anyone discussed about this fight, It's Jesse Rodriguez against Juan Francisco Estrada. The fight is schedule this June 29.

It will be the first time that Estrada will defend his WBC belt after defeating Roman ‘Chocolatito’ Gonzalez. And he has been inactive for 2 years so this could be a big factor in this fight as he is no longer getting any younger as well and he had a lot of wear and tear throughout his career.

He will be fighting one of the best prospects in Jesse Rodriguez, the number 1 contender, and has been a flyweight champion.

And interesting that Estrada is a huge underdog in his fight. Per ML,

Estrada-4.0
Rodriguez-1.22

And Bam Rodriguez beat the legendary Estrada, although early on, Estrada score a flash knock down on Rodriguez, Bam continue his aggression and that body shot really put down Estrada for good. Here are the highlights of the fight,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSscLSVqfiU

It might be good for Rodriguez to move up to 118 lbs and fight the winner of Ioka vs Martinez, that will be huge specially if that happen in Japan (meaning Ioka beating Martinez this week).

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Quote from: TravelMug on June 28, 2024, 08:47:33 PM

Quote from: Hirose UK on June 28, 2024, 08:43:17 AM

~snip~

I like the match up though, Inoue vs Vargas when Inoue steps up at 126 lbs and then Rey Vargas giving him that welcome. But Inoue will not get a free pass at 126 lbs because there's heavier, bigger and his attributes are a disadvantage against this weight class. Not just Ray but Luis Lopez, the IBF champion is also very difficult match up for Inoue.

This is the fight of Lopez against Gonzalez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qkLZPFeLN8

So as boxing fans, we will also love to see Inoue vs Lopez at Featherweight.

For some reason there are several reports circulating about Inoue still feeling comfortable in his current position, he doesn't seem very interested in preparing himself more quickly and trying his luck in other, higher classes, this makes some people feel confused about Inoue future.
Recently I also saw some news about Luis Lopez who was waiting for Inoue to arrive so he could meet and risk what he has now, Luis Lopez is really like fighter who likes challenges, he will take risks if Inoue want to fight.
But basically Luis Lopez or Rey Vargas are two fighters who are almost the same, they each have their own advantages if they meet Inoue and I agree that both of them are not fighters that Inoue can easily beat in the future.

Whatever happens in the future, if it is fight for the monster against heavier fighter when he moves up in class, it will definitely be fight to look forward to, Inoue will get new challenge and this is what we want from Inoue.
He the undisputed champion and being able to risk it all for greater achievement is risk for Inoue, but if he succeeds then he will be the best fighter.

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@Jating shared a video where Eddie Hearn and Devin Haney has a problem. It begins on 4:20.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onNmdz9WuFY

It appears that the Eddie Hearn is implying that it will be difficult to promote Devin Haney after the loss to King Ry and it would also be very difficult to make money from his fights. Does this also imply that King Ry has ended Devin Haney's career? Yes, I reckon. Boxing will not very be profitable for Devin and his father anymore. He can only return as a big name in boxing with a rematch against King Ry and Devin must win this.

Promoting Haney will be something similar to marketing a broken product.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on June 29, 2024, 05:09:24 PM

Quote from: serjent05 on June 29, 2024, 04:03:47 PM

Inoue's climb to featherweight might take some time. There are still opponents he needs to beat in 122 lbs and cleaning up the division will have lots of controversial and possibly evasion either from Inoue's camp or his opponent's. So probably Rey Vargas is out of his prime when Inoue is about to meet him in the boxing arena. Despite the age, I am also curious to see Inoue fighting a much taller opponent, I wanted to see how he, Inoue, will shorten the distance, break the defense of Rey Vargas and deliver his knock-out punching power.

Rafael Espinoza, the WBO featherweight champion, is even taller than Rey Vargas. According to BoxRec, he is 6’1” (185 cm). He is younger, undefeated and in his prime, compared to Vargas. He is with Top Rank so it is inevitable that they will meet someday in the future if Inoue wants to become undisputed again. The difference in size is comparable to Tim Tsyzu and Sebastian Fundora. Regardless of how good a fighter is, such a disadvantage will be a considerable challenge to overcome.

With Espinoza's record of 25-0, and with his height of 6'1" - he is a very good contender to challenge Inoue's boxing skills. If Inoue will move up and said to be happening in 2025, he has high chance to face Espinoza. Inoue has 67.5 inch reach, whereas, Espinoza is said to be at 74 inches. That's quite a large gap here given that it is boxing.
Tom Gray gave his opinion on this potential matchup, and from what he is seeing here, Inoue can beat Espinoza even with those mentioned advantages. Seems that Inoue will be the favourite here and Espinoza will be the underdog despite of his record and stature.

Can Rafael Espinoza beat Naoya Inoue? Mexican boxing champion's chances of destroying 'The Monster' in potential matchup

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Quote from: serjent05 on June 29, 2024, 04:03:47 PM

Inoue's climb to featherweight might take some time. There are still opponents he needs to beat in 122 lbs and cleaning up the division will have lots of controversial and possibly evasion either from Inoue's camp or his opponent's. So probably Rey Vargas is out of his prime when Inoue is about to meet him in the boxing arena. Despite the age, I am also curious to see Inoue fighting a much taller opponent, I wanted to see how he, Inoue, will shorten the distance, break the defense of Rey Vargas and deliver his knock-out punching power.

Rafael Espinoza, the WBO featherweight champion, is even taller than Rey Vargas. According to BoxRec, he is 6’1” (185 cm). He is younger, undefeated and in his prime, compared to Vargas. He is with Top Rank so it is inevitable that they will meet someday in the future if Inoue wants to become undisputed again. The difference in size is comparable to Tim Tsyzu and Sebastian Fundora. Regardless of how good a fighter is, such a disadvantage will be a considerable challenge to overcome.

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Quote from: btc_angela on June 20, 2024, 04:56:08 AM

Inoue future still looks bright, and even if he goes up and fight Rey Vargas, he will be really tested here. But Vargas has been vulnerable to power punchers and if Inoue caught him right into his chin, not sure if he can go back up from that power punch.

Inoue's climb to featherweight might take some time. There are still opponents he needs to beat in 122 lbs and cleaning up the division will have lots of controversial and possibly evasion either from Inoue's camp or his opponent's. So probably Rey Vargas is out of his prime when Inoue is about to meet him in the boxing arena. Despite the age, I am also curious to see Inoue fighting a much taller opponent, I wanted to see how he, Inoue, will shorten the distance, break the defense of Rey Vargas and deliver his knock-out punching power.

Quote from: btc_angela on June 20, 2024, 04:56:08 AM

But first Inoue will have to clean the division up before chasing 126 lbs. Still very young and Inoue is about to hit his peak or prime years and so that is going to be impressive if he become the first boxer to become a 3 division unified champion and it's going hard to break.

Wouldn't Inoue be the first one to unify three divisions if ever he successfully conquered and unified the belt in the Featherweight Division? Is there anyone who is ahead of him?

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Quote from: TravelMug on June 28, 2024, 08:47:33 PM

Quote from: Hirose UK on June 28, 2024, 08:43:17 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on June 20, 2024, 04:56:08 AM

Quote from: Hirose UK on June 20, 2024, 04:43:06 AM

~snip~

Inoue future still looks bright, and even if he goes up and fight Rey Vargas, he will be really tested here. But Vargas has been vulnerable to power punchers and if Inoue caught him right into his chin, not sure if he can go back up from that power punch.

But first Inoue will have to clean the division up before chasing 126 lbs. Still very young and Inoue is about to hit his peak or prime years and so that is going to be impressive if he become the first boxer to become a 3 division unified champion and it's going hard to break.

Yes, that could happen if there is mistake and Rey Vargas is careless in his position, but the possibility is small because their body postures are different and of course it will be easier for Rey Vargas to defend himself so as not to get heavy blow.
But this is fight that can only happen if Inoue can really rise smoothly because right now there are still several fighters who should still be able to be Inoue opponents, who knows what the future will be like because it is not clear what Inoue future will hold.

Of course it would be big achievement for Inoue if he could get it, but now that he has also achieved the unification of three titles and become the undisputed champion, maybe Inoue can make it all happen if he is able to beat the fighters above him.
It is not easy to beat fighters who are in much higher class, Inoue has to adapt to different fights, in terms of punches and defense it is not easy to overcome.
As I said before when I heard how Inoue has goal of moving up in class, there will always be challenges he faces, if he dares to risk his career then that is quite brave decision for Inoue.

I like the match up though, Inoue vs Vargas when Inoue steps up at 126 lbs and then Rey Vargas giving him that welcome. But Inoue will not get a free pass at 126 lbs because there's heavier, bigger and his attributes are a disadvantage against this weight class. Not just Ray but Luis Lopez, the IBF champion is also very difficult match up for Inoue.

This is the fight of Lopez against Gonzalez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qkLZPFeLN8

So as boxing fans, we will also love to see Inoue vs Lopez at Featherweight.

Inoue will still be very competitive at 126 lbs, another great champion here is Rafael Espinoza, another tall champion like Vargas, but he has a heart of a lion and his fight against Rob Ramirez if I'm not mistaken was the fight of the year, better check him out.

And most likely this is what Inoue is very careful of going up to Featherweight although again, I think he can still give this champion a lot of problems specially if he can bring that power up at 126 lbs and see how he will deal first with contender and then the eventual champion.

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Quote from: Hirose UK on June 28, 2024, 08:43:17 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on June 20, 2024, 04:56:08 AM

Quote from: Hirose UK on June 20, 2024, 04:43:06 AM

~snip~

Inoue future still looks bright, and even if he goes up and fight Rey Vargas, he will be really tested here. But Vargas has been vulnerable to power punchers and if Inoue caught him right into his chin, not sure if he can go back up from that power punch.

But first Inoue will have to clean the division up before chasing 126 lbs. Still very young and Inoue is about to hit his peak or prime years and so that is going to be impressive if he become the first boxer to become a 3 division unified champion and it's going hard to break.

Yes, that could happen if there is mistake and Rey Vargas is careless in his position, but the possibility is small because their body postures are different and of course it will be easier for Rey Vargas to defend himself so as not to get heavy blow.
But this is fight that can only happen if Inoue can really rise smoothly because right now there are still several fighters who should still be able to be Inoue opponents, who knows what the future will be like because it is not clear what Inoue future will hold.

Of course it would be big achievement for Inoue if he could get it, but now that he has also achieved the unification of three titles and become the undisputed champion, maybe Inoue can make it all happen if he is able to beat the fighters above him.
It is not easy to beat fighters who are in much higher class, Inoue has to adapt to different fights, in terms of punches and defense it is not easy to overcome.
As I said before when I heard how Inoue has goal of moving up in class, there will always be challenges he faces, if he dares to risk his career then that is quite brave decision for Inoue.

I like the match up though, Inoue vs Vargas when Inoue steps up at 126 lbs and then Rey Vargas giving him that welcome. But Inoue will not get a free pass at 126 lbs because there's heavier, bigger and his attributes are a disadvantage against this weight class. Not just Ray but Luis Lopez, the IBF champion is also very difficult match up for Inoue.

This is the fight of Lopez against Gonzalez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qkLZPFeLN8

So as boxing fans, we will also love to see Inoue vs Lopez at Featherweight.

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Quote from: btc_angela on June 20, 2024, 04:56:08 AM

Quote from: Hirose UK on June 20, 2024, 04:43:06 AM

~snip~

Inoue future still looks bright, and even if he goes up and fight Rey Vargas, he will be really tested here. But Vargas has been vulnerable to power punchers and if Inoue caught him right into his chin, not sure if he can go back up from that power punch.

But first Inoue will have to clean the division up before chasing 126 lbs. Still very young and Inoue is about to hit his peak or prime years and so that is going to be impressive if he become the first boxer to become a 3 division unified champion and it's going hard to break.

Yes, that could happen if there is mistake and Rey Vargas is careless in his position, but the possibility is small because their body postures are different and of course it will be easier for Rey Vargas to defend himself so as not to get heavy blow.
But this is fight that can only happen if Inoue can really rise smoothly because right now there are still several fighters who should still be able to be Inoue opponents, who knows what the future will be like because it is not clear what Inoue future will hold.

Of course it would be big achievement for Inoue if he could get it, but now that he has also achieved the unification of three titles and become the undisputed champion, maybe Inoue can make it all happen if he is able to beat the fighters above him.
It is not easy to beat fighters who are in much higher class, Inoue has to adapt to different fights, in terms of punches and defense it is not easy to overcome.
As I said before when I heard how Inoue has goal of moving up in class, there will always be challenges he faces, if he dares to risk his career then that is quite brave decision for Inoue.

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And it just shows that even if you are cleared by medical professional, there are still something that even at the advancement of science, some symptoms are undetected like in this case, a seizure did happen inside the ring.

Most likely though that this fighter might not go and box again because of this incident as the next time, he won't be as lucky and worst comes to worst, his life might be in danger the next time. Hopefully, doctors might learn a thing or two, or boxers themselves specially in they are trying to make the weight cut.

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^^ It was scary indeed, and the good thing is that his opponent didn't take that opportunity to hit him when he started to just froze there, otherwise if might be worse for this boxer. Good thing is that he is already doing fine and the cause of seizure is dehydration.

Quote

Williams was fighting for the NYC Attitude team, who said after the fight he had been "discharged from the hospital" and was "doing well".

Williams also made a statement on his Instagram, saying: "Yes, I’m fine. Doctor said I was too dehydrated."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/articles/cpvv0ry6gz0o

And going back to rehydration, still remember Ryan Garcia has that rehydration clause against Tank Davis and it could be the reason why he looks so frail and weak during that fight. It's not a excuse but this kind of incidence tells us that rehydration is very important for this boxers and if you go there not enough water in your body, you might get seizure like in this case.

Topic: Boxing Speculation, Odds and Predictions - page 16. (Read 31605 times)