Boxing Speculation, Odds and Predictions - page 222.

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Quote from: Sanitough on August 13, 2022, 08:32:39 AM

Nonito's career is not over, but if I would suggest, I think he should retire already.

Nothing wrong though with Donaire's plan to come back to ring again after being badly beaten by Naoya Inoue. Only he can feel if he can still fight despite being in the retirement age now. Maybe one last run to build his fame while earning money before hanging his gloves for good.

With his plan to go down weight before a possible return to Bantamweight, once he experiences losing in that lower division, expect him to retire right away as if he's not capable to win in a lower division, how much more on the Bantamweight division? He knows how to quit for sure but it's just that he is against a big monster in his last fight so he needs to test his strength below that level to see if he still has the power to beat his opponents.

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Quote from: btc_angela on August 13, 2022, 05:34:42 AM

Unfortunately, Nonito get the short end of the stick, as Naoya makes it very easy and score a knock out.

Nonito is already old, I didn't even expect that he would give Inoe a problem in their first fight, it was the toughest fight of Inoue as he was injured that time but he had a better game plan in the rematch and beat Inoue using his power where he is well known at. Nonito's career is not over, but if I would suggest, I think he should retire already.

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Quote from: chaser15 on August 13, 2022, 05:19:27 AM

Quote from: jossiel on August 12, 2022, 06:56:42 PM

On his match with Inoue, he said that he's going to beat Inoue and that's what I think that he became overconfident on that time. That's just my opinion and if you think guys that it's not a sign that he's overconfident with those words, that's okay.

What do you expect Donaire to say, " I can't beat Inoue?" hehe.

Of course, he will say he's going to beat Inoue. It doesn't mean that he is overconfident but it's just the usual statement from any boxers to say that they are going to beat their opponent as was it's supposed to be.

If his statement includes, "Inoue can't harm me, Inoue is nothing, I can easily beat Inoue" we can consider him overconfident in that fight.

Right, boxer needs to be very positive and motivate himself, and picturing winning the fight. And that's why boxers predict what round they are going to beat and knock out their opponents. But it doesn't mean that they are overconfident, more of putting themselves and their mind to wi. It's a practice not only boxers, but for any sports, focusing on and approaching the fight with the expectation that you are going to win, no matter what the odds are. Unfortunately, Nonito get the short end of the stick, as Naoya makes it very easy and score a knock out.

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Quote from: jossiel on August 12, 2022, 06:56:42 PM

On his match with Inoue, he said that he's going to beat Inoue and that's what I think that he became overconfident on that time. That's just my opinion and if you think guys that it's not a sign that he's overconfident with those words, that's okay.

What do you expect Donaire to say, " I can't beat Inoue?" hehe.

Of course, he will say he's going to beat Inoue. It doesn't mean that he is overconfident but it's just the usual statement from any boxers to say that they are going to beat their opponent as was it's supposed to be.

If his statement includes, "Inoue can't harm me, Inoue is nothing, I can easily beat Inoue" we can consider him overconfident in that fight.

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^^ Roman "Chocolatito" Gonzalez is one boxing legend as well, hard to summarized his career, but you can see his records here: https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/319725

Maybe you can search about his fight with Juan Estrada in Youtube.

As for Boots Ennis, he will be the future of the welterweight division. Both Spence Jr and Crawford said that it's possible that they will fight Ennis down the line, if there is money on the line.

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Quote from: jossiel on August 12, 2022, 06:56:42 PM

Quote from: Vaculin on August 12, 2022, 05:54:26 AM

Quote from: jossiel on August 11, 2022, 10:47:56 AM

I just hope that he have learned the lesson that being overconfident is also dangerous. But yes, despite that he's aware of who can he beat and win.

It's better for him to have that emotion set at the normal setting so that it won't overwhelm him when he's on another match whether it will be from a lower division fighter or of the same.

Who? Donaire? I don't really think that he have that kind of attitude where goes being overconfident to his foe because of his capabilities, we know Donaire's attitude towards Inoue though but none of it shouts that he's overconfident.

Even us didn't really expected that Inoue will evolve that much because we think that they will still have a long 12-round fight where there will be a long blow-by-blow punches all the way to the 12th round. But Inoue finished Donaire in just 2 rounds with a stoppage.

On his match with Inoue, he said that he's going to beat Inoue and that's what I think that he became overconfident on that time. That's just my opinion and if you think guys that it's not a sign that he's overconfident with those words, that's okay.

It is what I've thought of him.

But I want the best for him if he ever will have another match again. We all love to see him back and healthy again with a win.

I disagree. Donaire is a humble man and he never underestimates his opponents. Inoue developed more as a boxer and has only become more superior than Donaire. Donaire is also now too old to be a bantamweight boxer. This is only a good example for the old to give way to the young.

Quote from: Kemarit on August 12, 2022, 05:37:43 PM

Quote from: Yamifoud on August 12, 2022, 07:54:14 AM

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on August 12, 2022, 07:39:19 AM

And now he is thinking to go down in weight and chase more challenges and see if he can still fight the best of them.

Who's going down in weight? Donaire? I think that's a bad idea, I believe the best thing to do is to officially retire as he had proven himself already, but if he is still chasing the money, of course, he will use his popularity and will continue fighting.

Yes, there are news already that Donaire wants to go down to 115 lbs and challenge another legend in Roman Gonzalez. And agree that this could be a bad idea for him as he is not getting any younger, but if that is the case then he still wants to continue fighting then all we can do is watch if see if he can be successful at 115 lbs division.

As for Vergil Ortiz, he will be a good contender for either Spence and Crawford in 147 lbs. But I think those guys are still above and elite level of welterweight and I don't think the Vergil will give them a problem or there will be an upset.

This Gonzales in 115 pounds, is he a power puncher? He might knockout Donaire.

Also, it appears no one is talking about Boots Ennis in welterweight. He is the price if Spence and Crawford are the kings of welterweight hehehehe.

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Quote from: jossiel on August 12, 2022, 06:56:42 PM

Quote from: Vaculin on August 12, 2022, 05:54:26 AM

Quote from: jossiel on August 11, 2022, 10:47:56 AM

I just hope that he have learned the lesson that being overconfident is also dangerous. But yes, despite that he's aware of who can he beat and win.

It's better for him to have that emotion set at the normal setting so that it won't overwhelm him when he's on another match whether it will be from a lower division fighter or of the same.

Who? Donaire? I don't really think that he have that kind of attitude where goes being overconfident to his foe because of his capabilities, we know Donaire's attitude towards Inoue though but none of it shouts that he's overconfident.

Even us didn't really expected that Inoue will evolve that much because we think that they will still have a long 12-round fight where there will be a long blow-by-blow punches all the way to the 12th round. But Inoue finished Donaire in just 2 rounds with a stoppage.

On his match with Inoue, he said that he's going to beat Inoue and that's what I think that he became overconfident on that time. That's just my opinion and if you think guys that it's not a sign that he's overconfident with those words, that's okay.

It is what I've thought of him.

But I want the best for him if he ever will have another match again. We all love to see him back and healthy again with a win.

Still not, it's not over confident, all boxers said that about their opponent on how they are going to beat them, but when the opponent happens, it doesn't mean that they are overconfident, it's that the other boxer is way better than them, (in this case, a prime Inoue destroying the legendary Donaire).

And we should factor Donaire's age in the equation, he seems to be slower now. In the first fight he lasted 12 full rounds, but with this version of Inoue, the fight only lasted 2 rounds.

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Quote from: Vaculin on August 12, 2022, 05:54:26 AM

Quote from: jossiel on August 11, 2022, 10:47:56 AM

I just hope that he have learned the lesson that being overconfident is also dangerous. But yes, despite that he's aware of who can he beat and win.

It's better for him to have that emotion set at the normal setting so that it won't overwhelm him when he's on another match whether it will be from a lower division fighter or of the same.

Who? Donaire? I don't really think that he have that kind of attitude where goes being overconfident to his foe because of his capabilities, we know Donaire's attitude towards Inoue though but none of it shouts that he's overconfident.

Even us didn't really expected that Inoue will evolve that much because we think that they will still have a long 12-round fight where there will be a long blow-by-blow punches all the way to the 12th round. But Inoue finished Donaire in just 2 rounds with a stoppage.

On his match with Inoue, he said that he's going to beat Inoue and that's what I think that he became overconfident on that time. That's just my opinion and if you think guys that it's not a sign that he's overconfident with those words, that's okay.

It is what I've thought of him.

But I want the best for him if he ever will have another match again. We all love to see him back and healthy again with a win.

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Quote from: Yamifoud on August 12, 2022, 07:54:14 AM

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on August 12, 2022, 07:39:19 AM

And now he is thinking to go down in weight and chase more challenges and see if he can still fight the best of them.

Who's going down in weight? Donaire? I think that's a bad idea, I believe the best thing to do is to officially retire as he had proven himself already, but if he is still chasing the money, of course, he will use his popularity and will continue fighting.

Yes, there are news already that Donaire wants to go down to 115 lbs and challenge another legend in Roman Gonzalez. And agree that this could be a bad idea for him as he is not getting any younger, but if that is the case then he still wants to continue fighting then all we can do is watch if see if he can be successful at 115 lbs division.

As for Vergil Ortiz, he will be a good contender for either Spence and Crawford in 147 lbs. But I think those guys are still above and elite level of welterweight and I don't think the Vergil will give them a problem or there will be an upset.

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Quote from: Vaculin on August 12, 2022, 05:54:26 AM

Quote from: jossiel on August 11, 2022, 10:47:56 AM

Quote from: stadus on August 11, 2022, 10:18:51 AM

I guess there is no need for Donaire to do some cherry picking in the said division because I bet he can manage just fine even the champions in that division, he chose to fight in super-flyweight next so that means that he is confident enough that he can defeat those guys. He really knew that he cannot defeat the current Inoue now, so much better to do some cleaning in the lower weight class for now.

I just hope that he have learned the lesson that being overconfident is also dangerous. But yes, despite that he's aware of who can he beat and win.

It's better for him to have that emotion set at the normal setting so that it won't overwhelm him when he's on another match whether it will be from a lower division fighter or of the same.

Who? Donaire? I don't really think that he have that kind of attitude where goes being overconfident to his foe because of his capabilities, we know Donaire's attitude towards Inoue though but none of it shouts that he's overconfident.

Even us didn't really expected that Inoue will evolve that much because we think that they will still have a long 12-round fight where there will be a long blow-by-blow punches all the way to the 12th round. But Inoue finished Donaire in just 2 rounds with a stoppage.

I had never seen Donaire being overconfident. As far as I know, he trained really hard in every fight. He even keeps on training even without scheduled fights just to keep his shape. The one thing I know is that Donaire has a tendency to fall in love with the idea of one punch KO. So instead of delivering combinations he opt to do a one punch KO strategy.

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on August 12, 2022, 03:53:46 AM

Hmm, I'm not sure if we are in the same page, Vergil last opponent was Michael McKinson, you can look at his boxrec here:

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/697918.

The guy has 8.7% knock out ratio, so not sure where you get the numbers of 18 wins by KO?

So he has no punching power whatsoever, it was evident in the fight, what McKinson has is that he has a big heart in the ring that despite he was being down by a body shot and he seems to have injured himself, he keeps on fighting until his corner stop it.

Yeah, I stand corrected. My browser failed me, I should have doubled check the date and the record. Indeed it was Michael McKinson, thanks for the correction. With that, I do agree that the fight was cherry-picked. It looks like Vergil is more concerned with his perfect records than challenging a worthy opponent. The stats is from the other guy whom he fights before Mckinson.

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Quote from: Yamifoud on August 12, 2022, 07:54:14 AM

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on August 12, 2022, 07:39:19 AM

And now he is thinking to go down in weight and chase more challenges and see if he can still fight the best of them.

Who's going down in weight? Donaire? I think that's a bad idea, I believe the best thing to do is to officially retire as he had proven himself already, but if he is still chasing the money, of course, he will use his popularity and will continue fighting.

Yes, he might be using his popularity in the industry to chase some money even though he's already old but I bet he will be successful if that is his motive that is why he won't retire after that loss against Inoue.

Let's see if Donaire still has what it takes and do the talk to defeat champions in the super-flyweight division, I also want to find out if he can.

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Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on August 12, 2022, 07:39:19 AM

And now he is thinking to go down in weight and chase more challenges and see if he can still fight the best of them.

Who's going down in weight? Donaire? I think that's a bad idea, I believe the best thing to do is to officially retire as he had proven himself already, but if he is still chasing the money, of course, he will use his popularity and will continue fighting.

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Quote from: jossiel on August 11, 2022, 10:47:56 AM

Quote from: stadus on August 11, 2022, 10:18:51 AM

Quote from: jossiel on August 10, 2022, 06:21:49 PM

Yes, thanks for letting me remember that. But still, he can also be part of the selection process and ask the promoter and organizer if it's possible to fight with his pick.

As for cherry picking, it will still be a hit for his match as everyone is waiting for his retrieval from the last lost that he has made. I'm sure that many fans of him will still watch whether it's from the organizer or his pick.

I guess there is no need for Donaire to do some cherry picking in the said division because I bet he can manage just fine even the champions in that division, he chose to fight in super-flyweight next so that means that he is confident enough that he can defeat those guys. He really knew that he cannot defeat the current Inoue now, so much better to do some cleaning in the lower weight class for now.

I just hope that he have learned the lesson that being overconfident is also dangerous. But yes, despite that he's aware of who can he beat and win.

It's better for him to have that emotion set at the normal setting so that it won't overwhelm him when he's on another match whether it will be from a lower division fighter or of the same.

I'm not sure if Donaire is overconfident though, yes, he has lost the first fight against Inoue, so if someone will be overconfident it should be Inoue.

Nevertheless, he didn't, he uses his speed and Donaire can't cope up with that and of course the power.

And now he is thinking to go down in weight and chase more challenges and see if he can still fight the best of them.

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Winding down.

Quote from: jossiel on August 11, 2022, 10:47:56 AM

Quote from: stadus on August 11, 2022, 10:18:51 AM

Quote from: jossiel on August 10, 2022, 06:21:49 PM

Yes, thanks for letting me remember that. But still, he can also be part of the selection process and ask the promoter and organizer if it's possible to fight with his pick.

As for cherry picking, it will still be a hit for his match as everyone is waiting for his retrieval from the last lost that he has made. I'm sure that many fans of him will still watch whether it's from the organizer or his pick.

I guess there is no need for Donaire to do some cherry picking in the said division because I bet he can manage just fine even the champions in that division, he chose to fight in super-flyweight next so that means that he is confident enough that he can defeat those guys. He really knew that he cannot defeat the current Inoue now, so much better to do some cleaning in the lower weight class for now.

I just hope that he have learned the lesson that being overconfident is also dangerous. But yes, despite that he's aware of who can he beat and win.

It's better for him to have that emotion set at the normal setting so that it won't overwhelm him when he's on another match whether it will be from a lower division fighter or of the same.

Who? Donaire? I don't really think that he have that kind of attitude where goes being overconfident to his foe because of his capabilities, we know Donaire's attitude towards Inoue though but none of it shouts that he's overconfident.

Even us didn't really expected that Inoue will evolve that much because we think that they will still have a long 12-round fight where there will be a long blow-by-blow punches all the way to the 12th round. But Inoue finished Donaire in just 2 rounds with a stoppage.

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Quote from: Daltonik on August 10, 2022, 11:06:33 AM

After watching the rematch of Donaire vs Naoya Inoue, you can see that Donaire no longer has his main advantage - speed and simply does not have time to react to enemy attacks, age still affects, and by moving to a heavier weight category, he also risks his health

We can say that a boxer who aged will definitely lost their speed first, that's what happen to Roy Jones Jr, in his prime, damn, Roy was one of the fastest if not the fastest boxer I have seen. Not only fast but has power behind it. Same with Manny Pacquiao, we've seen that he has deteriorate in the years after being knock out my Marquez. Yes he won some fights after that, but the he was a tad slower. Same with Donaire, and then he fought a version of Inoue which is on the prime years of his career, so it's hard to beat that combination, young and power and speed.

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Quote from: lionheart78 on August 10, 2022, 11:47:26 AM

Quote from: Yaunfitda on August 10, 2022, 03:53:33 AM

Quote from: Jawhead999 on August 09, 2022, 06:36:38 AM

I'm surprised he's on welterweight division, it's a same division with Crawford and Spence, but this boxer never want to challenge a world champion. He's not really cherry pick his opponent since his opponent also have a good record, I think he's more focus about his record rather than making his name bigger by getting a belt. It's the first time I hear his name, maybe he wanted to get the belt when Crawford vs Spence have happened, so he will likely join the vacant belt.

But his last fight, a comeback fight was a cherry pick right? he fight someone who doesn't have good KO record, but he gave Vergil everything he had, but unfortunately, his corner throw in the towel. Not sure if he is injured or something or the body shot really took the toll on him. Nevertheless, Golden Boy really needs to step the plate for their fighter and give them championship fight to see how good Vergil is or just another hype fighter.

I do think it is but his opponent is not a bad fighter. It was cherry-picked probably because Egidijus Kavaliauskas lost by TKO when he fight Terence Crawford. But despite that, the guy's record is quite impressive with 21 wins 1 loss wherein 18 is by the way of KO before they fight. So this guy has the punching power to KO his opponent. It is that Vergil Ortiz Jr. is way better. And not being popular doesn't mean the fighter is trash. Pacquiao was unpopular on the other side of the world before he fights Ledwaba.

Hmm, I'm not sure if we are in the same page, Vergil last opponent was Michael McKinson, you can look at his boxrec here:

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/697918.

The guy has 8.7% knock out ratio, so not sure where you get the numbers of 18 wins by KO?

So he has no punching power whatsoever, it was evident in the fight, what McKinson has is that he has a big heart in the ring that despite he was being down by a body shot and he seems to have injured himself, he keeps on fighting until his corner stop it.

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Quote from: Daltonik on August 10, 2022, 11:06:33 AM

After watching the rematch of Donaire vs Naoya Inoue, you can see that Donaire no longer has his main advantage - speed and simply does not have time to react to enemy attacks, age still affects, and by moving to a heavier weight category, he also risks his health

So it is really a great decision to move to a lower division after all this could ensure his goal of getting his 5th division title, and I really don't want to dishearten Donaire but I think it is not over for him to challenge Naoya Inoue anymore back on their 1st match I think he got lucky in getting the fight the distance, and on their 2nd match truly Naoya Inoue is on another level, with his speed and power, that is why I am not recommending him a rematch against Naoya,

Quote from: jossiel on August 10, 2022, 04:24:34 PM

That's true.

If he's going to pick his next opponent, he has to be sure and eager that he know that his opponent is easy and he'll win. It could be wrong for the others to have this mentality.

But this is boxing and that's how it goes when they're having a match because they have to think positively just as what he have thought regarding his fight against Inoue.

Well, the mentality is not right but it is really acceptable, right now Nonito Donaire is the only one that knows his limitation and I could be wrong saying that he can not have a chance anymore against Naoya, but If he has a plan, and surely he fought and seen Naoya's strength for himself and by saying that he wants a rematch against him but not now, I think he is not just saying it with just an intention to look cool, but all I am saying is speculation it is either he is just saying that to look cool, but his real intention was to stay in a lower division, or he is saying what he really wants and will have a plan on their next rematch,

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Quote from: stadus on August 11, 2022, 10:18:51 AM

Quote from: jossiel on August 10, 2022, 06:21:49 PM

Yes, thanks for letting me remember that. But still, he can also be part of the selection process and ask the promoter and organizer if it's possible to fight with his pick.

As for cherry picking, it will still be a hit for his match as everyone is waiting for his retrieval from the last lost that he has made. I'm sure that many fans of him will still watch whether it's from the organizer or his pick.

I guess there is no need for Donaire to do some cherry picking in the said division because I bet he can manage just fine even the champions in that division, he chose to fight in super-flyweight next so that means that he is confident enough that he can defeat those guys. He really knew that he cannot defeat the current Inoue now, so much better to do some cleaning in the lower weight class for now.

I just hope that he have learned the lesson that being overconfident is also dangerous. But yes, despite that he's aware of who can he beat and win.

It's better for him to have that emotion set at the normal setting so that it won't overwhelm him when he's on another match whether it will be from a lower division fighter or of the same.

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Quote from: stadus on August 11, 2022, 10:18:51 AM

Quote from: jossiel on August 10, 2022, 06:21:49 PM

Quote from: agustina2 on August 10, 2022, 05:45:08 PM

Quote from: jossiel on August 10, 2022, 04:24:34 PM

If he's going to pick his next opponent, he has to be sure and eager that he know that his opponent is easy and he'll win. It could be wrong for the others to have this mentality.

That's not how it works. If Nonito Donaire will pick his opponents, the promoter and organizers will have to agree with it too.

If he's just cherry-picking easy opponents, that's not worth watching and promoters will think that's not a good fight to organize.

Donaire should just agree to whoever opponents he will face. At the point of this career, there should be no picking or selecting who he wants as he's starting from the bottom bracket now. Besides, I think he won't have a big problem facing top boxers in Flyweight or Super Flyweight Division that's why no need to be picky of his opponents in that division.

Yes, thanks for letting me remember that. But still, he can also be part of the selection process and ask the promoter and organizer if it's possible to fight with his pick.

As for cherry picking, it will still be a hit for his match as everyone is waiting for his retrieval from the last lost that he has made. I'm sure that many fans of him will still watch whether it's from the organizer or his pick.

I guess there is no need for Donaire to do some cherry picking in the said division because I bet he can manage just fine even the champions in that division, he chose to fight in super-flyweight next so that means that he is confident enough that he can defeat those guys. He really knew that he cannot defeat the current Inoue now, so much better to do some cleaning in the lower weight class for now.

His decision to go down is his eagerness to retire as a champion, no boxer or a champion with a great legacy behind him will retire with that kind of knock out, a boxer will always be remembered for his last fight so he is giving himself another shot on the title so he can retire in grace, he really has nothing to prove anymore he just want a graceful and well remembered exit.

Topic: Boxing Speculation, Odds and Predictions - page 222. (Read 32561 times)