BTC-e hacked ?? - page 14. | Bitcointalksearch.org

illyiller

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Quote from: erk on September 06, 2017, 05:04:41 PM

Quote from: stingray454 on September 06, 2017, 03:45:01 AM

But that's my point.. If there is a site where you can sell your BTC for fiat, but not get the fiat out of the site.. would you sell? No. There would be nobody selling coins for fiat, so that's not an option.

I guess if you don't trade much you might think that, however in reality I use to buy and sell fiat all the time on BTC-e yet I never deposited or withdrew any. It is a hedge when BTC is crashing like USDT is on Polo, people love the stuff.

I think one of the only reasons the USDT situation is tenable right now is the overall cryptocurrency bubble. When things return to a bear market and everyone wants USD again, things might not look so rosy.

Tether hasn't been able to redeem USDT for USD in 6 months. But as long as everyone is staying in the markets, it doesn't matter. They can move their USDT to one of several exchanges and buy into any number of coins.

This effect will be less apparent on BTC-e, since there is no pretense that is fully backed by the underlying asset (it is a debt obligation, not the asset itself). And even if it were a transferable token (like USDT), I don't think other exchanges would accept it, due to BTC-e's embattled legal situation.

erk

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Quote from: stingray454 on September 06, 2017, 03:45:01 AM

But that's my point.. If there is a site where you can sell your BTC for fiat, but not get the fiat out of the site.. would you sell? No. There would be nobody selling coins for fiat, so that's not an option.

I guess if you don't trade much you might think that, however in reality I use to buy and sell fiat all the time on BTC-e yet I never deposited or withdrew any. It is a hedge when BTC is crashing like USDT is on Polo, people love the stuff.

MAbtc

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Quote from: NorrisK on September 06, 2017, 04:39:47 PM

Quote from: stingray454 on September 06, 2017, 02:53:10 AM

So if fiat does NOT get converted, and the fiat withdrawal is very limited.. Our fiat is stuck there? I'm guessing people will be reluctant to sell their BTC / similar for fiat if it will be hard getting it off the site.

The value of the fiat will be much lower on btc-e as there is no assurance it will ever get out.

This means you will probably be paying a hefty premium on coins if they allow those to be transferred out.

I wonder if it might be like the US-facing online poker industry after Black Friday. The cashout situation became so bad that customers on networks like Carbon and Cake began to question the solvency of the sites they played on.

Check cashouts took anywhere from a few weeks to a few months to process, and sometimes the checks bounced. As such, a market developed around P2P bank deposits as a way to cash out. People would pay 40-50% premiums to get their money out of the dodgier sites.

NorrisK

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Quote from: stingray454 on September 06, 2017, 02:53:10 AM

So if fiat does NOT get converted, and the fiat withdrawal is very limited.. Our fiat is stuck there? I'm guessing people will be reluctant to sell their BTC / similar for fiat if it will be hard getting it off the site.

The value of the fiat will be much lower on btc-e as there is no assurance it will ever get out.

This means you will probably be paying a hefty premium on coins if they allow those to be transferred out.

omarabid

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so only one week to launch? Any insights on the new token rates?

romani245

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Quote from: stingray454 on September 06, 2017, 03:45:01 AM

Quote from: Error 522 on September 06, 2017, 03:30:17 AM

Quote from: stingray454 on September 06, 2017, 02:53:10 AM

So if fiat does NOT get converted, and the fiat withdrawal is very limited.. Our fiat is stuck there? I'm guessing people will be reluctant to sell their BTC / similar for fiat if it will be hard getting it off the site.

Why bother taking fiat off site, just buy btc send to your btc wallet and then sell via a local fully legalized exchange...

Unless u try to avoid the taxman...

But that's my point.. If there is a site where you can sell your BTC for fiat, but not get the fiat out of the site.. would you sell? No. There would be nobody selling coins for fiat, so that's not an option.

That's the rub, here. There may be some limited fiat withdrawal options, but my guess is that there will be a premium for cryptocurrency vs. the fiat markets, since they will not be able to easily move funds.

As for the "why bother taking fiat off site" sentiment......that's true for many or even most people, but there must be an assumption that the money is worth something. If no one can move fiat money, then it's just another token.

cryptomole

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Quote from: Error 522 on September 06, 2017, 03:30:17 AM

Quote from: stingray454 on September 06, 2017, 02:53:10 AM

So if fiat does NOT get converted, and the fiat withdrawal is very limited.. Our fiat is stuck there? I'm guessing people will be reluctant to sell their BTC / similar for fiat if it will be hard getting it off the site.

Why bother taking fiat off site, just buy btc send to your btc wallet and then sell via a local fully legalized exchange...

Unless u try to avoid the taxman...

Thats all well and good if fiat balances are true fiat balances, however if fiat balances are represented as fiat tokens whose value may change and do not represent true USD value, particularly if people dump tokens and value drops.
There is not enough clarification to allow one to make a decision.

stingray454

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Quote from: Error 522 on September 06, 2017, 03:30:17 AM

Quote from: stingray454 on September 06, 2017, 02:53:10 AM

So if fiat does NOT get converted, and the fiat withdrawal is very limited.. Our fiat is stuck there? I'm guessing people will be reluctant to sell their BTC / similar for fiat if it will be hard getting it off the site.

Why bother taking fiat off site, just buy btc send to your btc wallet and then sell via a local fully legalized exchange...

Unless u try to avoid the taxman...

But that's my point.. If there is a site where you can sell your BTC for fiat, but not get the fiat out of the site.. would you sell? No. There would be nobody selling coins for fiat, so that's not an option.

Error 522

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Quote from: stingray454 on September 06, 2017, 02:53:10 AM

So if fiat does NOT get converted, and the fiat withdrawal is very limited.. Our fiat is stuck there? I'm guessing people will be reluctant to sell their BTC / similar for fiat if it will be hard getting it off the site.

Why bother taking fiat off site, just buy btc send to your btc wallet and then sell via a local fully legalized exchange...

Unless u try to avoid the taxman...

MAbtc

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Quote from: erk on September 06, 2017, 03:11:38 AM

Just read the FAQ, Refund and Update pages on their website it's all in there, they have said exactly what is happening with the website.

No, that's not entirely true. A lot of people are under the mistaken impression that their fiat balances (at least the 55%+ portion) will be converted to BTC/LTC/ETH when the new site launches. And I can see why people think this; refunding fiat users with this formula was the only solution they provided on the forums and the only thing that we are seeing in practice.

The fact that we can see the USD/USDET market on the tokens page, though, tells me otherwise. That tells me that fiat holders are getting fiat money credited to their accounts when the new site launches. How valuable is that fiat money going to be? How reliably can they get it to customers? If it gets frozen during transfer due to association with BTC-e, can you reliably get the money back in your account? When these types of issues have happened in the past, that is not always the case. Dealing with their support can be......challenging.

This is one of the reasons why the refund might be optimal for some users. Another reason is that users can immediately take advantage (or at least hedge against) the current volatility.

erk

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Quote from: cryptomole on September 06, 2017, 03:01:31 AM

Quote from: stingray454 on September 06, 2017, 02:53:10 AM

So if fiat does NOT get converted, and the fiat withdrawal is very limited.. Our fiat is stuck there? I'm guessing people will be reluctant to sell their BTC / similar for fiat if it will be hard getting it off the site.

They really have provided very little to go on to clarify the position with fiat! There is nothing about fiat in their FAQ
They seem to be treating people with fiat balances very poorly with a singular lack of information.
People are having to second guess their intentions.
As a result they will be losing a lot of otherwise loyal customers!

The only official info I can find is on an old FAQ

"What will happen to the fiat in the users' accounts?
The team of lawyers works on fiat, which decide how to return access to it. At the moment, you will be able to deduce 55% in koin."

Can anybody quote anything they have said that provides any info about treatment of fiat balances?

It seems with current info and lack of info they are forcing fiat holders to choose the refund option!

Please can anybody post any actuall quote relating to their proposals?

Just read the FAQ, Refund and Update pages on their website it's all in there, they have said exactly what is happening with the website.

cryptomole

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Quote from: stingray454 on September 06, 2017, 02:53:10 AM

So if fiat does NOT get converted, and the fiat withdrawal is very limited.. Our fiat is stuck there? I'm guessing people will be reluctant to sell their BTC / similar for fiat if it will be hard getting it off the site.

They really have provided very little to go on to clarify the position with fiat! There is nothing about fiat in their FAQ
They seem to be treating people with fiat balances very poorly with a singular lack of information.
People are having to second guess their intentions.
As a result they will be losing a lot of otherwise loyal customers!

The only official info I can find is on an old FAQ

"What will happen to the fiat in the users' accounts?
The team of lawyers works on fiat, which decide how to return access to it. At the moment, you will be able to deduce 55% in koin."

Can anybody quote anything they have said that provides any info about treatment of fiat balances?

It seems with current info and lack of info they are forcing fiat holders to choose the refund option!

Please can anybody post any actuall quote relating to their proposals?

stingray454

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So if fiat does NOT get converted, and the fiat withdrawal is very limited.. Our fiat is stuck there? I'm guessing people will be reluctant to sell their BTC / similar for fiat if it will be hard getting it off the site.

larkinvain

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Just wondering if anyone got BCH yet? So far everything came in except Bitcoin Cash.

erk

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Quote from: Freecrypto1337 on September 05, 2017, 07:57:26 PM

Why they didn't give any information about the conditions that we will find on sept 15th??

Not because they are shady.... you are on th wrong track.

Just think about it.

Why should they provide detailed information about the new site now.
They don't want you to feel too save. Everytime somebody chooses the 55% and runs away their debt is decreasing.

The only thing that worries me is at what exchange rate USD will be converted into coins. At the rate of the 15th or the actual ONE

How about you just think about it.

BTC-e admin said an entirely new organization/investors are taking over after the 15th.
It's up to the new owners to decide what information to give out after they take over.
They are toughening up there AML/KYC verification to European standards, so you will need ID similar to Bitstamp which is also in Europe.

Freecrypto1337

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Why they didn't give any information about the conditions that we will find on sept 15th??

Not because they are shady.... you are on th wrong track.

Just think about it.

Why should they provide detailed information about the new site now.
They don't want you to feel too save. Everytime somebody chooses the 55% and runs away their debt is decreasing.

The only thing that worries me is at what exchange rate USD will be converted into coins. At the rate of the 15th or the actual ONE

larkinvain

member

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With so much not known it was the safest thing to withdraw before the 15th. I don't blame BTC-E for not giving all the information as a lot may not be finalized with the new company that is taking over. What they are trying to do involves a lot of moving parts and a lot of legal counsel.

I'm thinking there's still a lot of negotiations going on right now and that refunding 55% now with the agreement to forfeit 45% will help their position with the new investment company.

Error 522

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Quote from: NorrisK on September 05, 2017, 04:14:10 PM

Quote from: Error 522 on September 05, 2017, 05:33:51 AM

Some claim btc-e has said in Russian forum that small withdrawals will work without verification...

But what is a small withdrawel?

Is it 100 usd? 1000 usd? or even 10000 usd?

I'm fine giving my name and get a daily limit on my withdrawels, but I'm not fine giving a copy of my ID.

unknown at the moment

erk

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Quote from: Potent on September 05, 2017, 08:45:09 AM

Maybe they can see

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Why they didn't give any information about the conditions that we will find on sept 15th ? WHY?? It's shady and dangerous for risking at 15th September.
It will require verification to withdraw? specially for koins? withdraw is limited without verification Or impossible without it??
How can someone properly decide if he do not know all the conditions??

They BTC-e admins are Russian, the don't read English forums threads, but don't let me stop you from acting like an idiot.

NorrisK

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Quote from: Error 522 on September 05, 2017, 05:33:51 AM

Some claim btc-e has said in Russian forum that small withdrawals will work without verification...

But what is a small withdrawel?

Is it 100 usd? 1000 usd? or even 10000 usd?

I'm fine giving my name and get a daily limit on my withdrawels, but I'm not fine giving a copy of my ID.

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