Topic: (Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed) - page 33. (Read 274783 times)

I am not having too much success as of yet either.....seems to be hovering at the same $....made a few bad trades....then one good one.....so i will continue to let it run 24/7 and watch it for the remainder of the week.....I have the time set to 30 min

Yes, that is correct.

Even if it wasn't watching a live feed, but being able to set it at 5m, 10m, 15m, etc. I think that would improve the entry and exit with the market.

OK, I think I understand now.  The Interval setting in Butterbot seems to do two things:

1) Calculates EMA at the set interval
2) Checks the threshold at the set interval and buys/sells if the value is met.

What you are doing at BitWisdom is watching the 1 hour EMA lines, but you are watching them continuously throughout the day, not just checking at 1 hour intervals.  Is that correct?

As far as I know, there is no way for to do that with this Bot.  Although it does seem like it would be a nice feature for the future!  I wonder if there are any drawbacks to having it constantly looking at the data.

I understand what your saying, but I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying.

Let me give two examples, and please, anyone jump in an tell me where I got it wrong.

Example #1
Using Butter-Bot on BitStamp, 1Hour, 10/21, with no time offset (so it is checking at the top of the hour).
This example checks at the top of the hour, and does the calculations, if there has been a crossover, then it makes the needed trades.

Example #2
Watching BitWisdom on Bitstamp, 1Hour, 10/21, with live feed (so it is checking constantly).
This example uses the same settings as Example #1, but it just checks a whole lot more often, so it is much more accurate at spotting the actual crossover, when it happens. So you aren't missing it by 1-59 mins late.


Why does the frequency of data point updates have to be the same as the (2h, 1h, 30m, 15m) EMA time setting?

It would be nice if we can have the best of both worlds - Butter Bot for long term trading and HFT bot for short term. Then regardless long or short term, the bots are always making us money!

No, when buying back manually you have to disable the bot or it will sell all your coins on the next tick.

You want a referral check out my signature, just click on the butter bot link when you want to buy and you and I will get a free month.

Naelr

That would require a completely different engine.

You'd need to take into account volatility, volume, trend, enter and exit positions, stop losses, spread, profit target, scalping... urgh, that would be a pain to set up and still probably would require constant attention. There is a reason the exchange HFT bot algorithms are highly guarded secrets and their inventors make millions in salaries.

Butter Bot is designed for long term trading.

Any recommended bot for short term trading to capitalise on the price volatility?

Pablo: Any plan for a HFT bot?

Youve kept the bot on 24/7? and double your coins at 15min interval?

I'm using 20/42@15m at Bitstamp lately and it has performed very well during those post-rally conditions. I sometimes buy back some BTC gradually during hard crashes (having an option in the bot to do that would be awesome), so I almost doubled my BTC over the last two weeks or so.

It sold at 644 today btw.

I just finished reading all of Goomboo's highlighted posts and have to say it was a worth it read coming from a similar opinion of many of the recent comments...

I sat here watching bitcoinwisdom going I should of sold there and bought there and next time around I will do that and get it right.. Uhh probably not..
I still want to go read more about cross overs and EMA, but from his results I think it may be on to something..

My bot also traded at the 610 but started the trade at 620 and I asked myself "wtf is it doing.. it could of sold at 680 this morning" honest why didnt it?
But Goomboo has a point where 7 out of 10 trades will be bad but the 3 that arent will be big ones (I hope). Look its back to 610 right now..

Now I know I am not making a good case for this system as I honestly dont believe it myself just yet.. but I think I need more than a week to figure it out.
So I guess I will buy a few months membership and give it a try.. I heard there was a referral program that give you an extra month?
Anyone care to share?

Quick Update: After reading Goomboo's posts I decided to change the short/long to 10/21 and the bot would of sold this morning before the drop if it was set to that..
Where as with the 20/42 it didnt.. May be worth thinking about..

That is correct.  It only checks on the interval that you specify; that is what it is designed to do.

You don't want it checking all the time, or it would be trading all the time.  It costs a fee each time you make a trade.  And often, the ema's will cross over several times in a short period of "sideways" movement.  If you trade on all of them, you end up just giving all your money to the exchanges.

What this bot works well at, is longer intervals.  You want to trade less often, but make a bigger profit when you do trade.  It is a long-term trading bot, not a day trading bot.

EMA detects trends.  Upwards trends and downward trends.  And it only knows the trend is over AFTER the trend is over.  It will never identify the highest or lowest values while it is at that value.  It will only do it after that value has passed.  Obviously, there is no way to tell if you are at the highest or lowest point.  Will the price keep going up?  Will the price start dropping?  No one can tell you.

So, you set your bot for EMA's 10 and 21 (or whatever you want), set your interval for 1 hour (or higher), and watch it make a few trades per month.   You want to grab the few BIG trends.  Not the hundreds of smaller ups and down that just eat away at your profit.

Please, everyone, go read Goomboo's thread.  It is difficult at first if you are not used to market terms and theories (I was not), but it is definitely worth it if you want to try to use this bot.

I could be wrong here, but this is what I think is the problem. Even though the bot requires it be always connected, it doesn't take advantage of that itself. It doesn't monitor the market moves, it only checks them on the schedule you set. So if you have it set for a 1 Hour EMA, it is only checking in once an hour, even though the 1 Hour EMA actually crossed over 45 mins ago, the bot is only now checking and making the needed trade.

I don't like the buy and sell thresholds. I guess because they don't make any sense. Why do you need a threshold and what is that really helping you do? If I just want to trade EMA lines crossing why can't I do that? I tried inputting those negative numbers and tried it on the back testing and I can't really see it performing like it should. My bot sold at $603 today at 1Hr intervals default settings. But if it would of sold as soon as it went negative it would of sold at $629. I guess I'm just dissapointed in this bot. It seems to make a lot of bad trades. Does anyone have good setting for this bot that give any better results? I wish I knew programming. It seems like you know what the bot should do but it just does whatever it wants and makes pretty bad moves. I thought I would give it another shot but its killing me.

This has been asked frequently in this thread.  The answer is below.  Keep in mind that this may cause the bot to trade much more frequently than you expect.

How can you make the bot trade right when the EMA crosses. It always seems to wait till the next tick and I want it to trade as soon as it goes positive or negative. Anyone know?

I do agree that a week is a very short amount of time for a trial of a bot that is designed for long term strategies.

That said, if you are at all considering buying a bot that does EMA trading, you NEED to learn about EMA trading.  If you don't understand it, it will be extremely difficult to make a profit using it.  Goomboo's Journal (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/goomboos-journal-60501) describes EMA trading in great detail.  It is a very long thread, but it has some very good information in it.

I dont exactly get the whole EMA thing, but do understand that it buys and sells based on a crossover and its a long term thing..

Problem I have it the trail is what a week long? Should I expect to see some sort of gain in that week?

Because right now i've only lost money due to the bot in the last day.. So I do not see a reason to invest in this software..
BTC was at 670 this morning and with the default settings the bot only made a trade at 610.. it already dropped $60..
Now call me stupid because it did go down to 590.. but now its rebounding and what if it goes back to 670?
When is this bot going to buy? Will buy at $630 losing me $20? Or is it predicting it will crash even more?

Or am I suppose to continue to lose money for the next week and just believe it works?

I dont mean to put anyone down on this and I am sure theres a few that have made a profit..
But I am using the default settings and I dont see it..

If have US Dollars in your account, and you start the bot when the price of bitcoins is rising, it will automatically buy bitcoins for you.  I personally would prefer that it ONLY buy/sell on the crossovers, but it is not programmed that way.

Yes, the browser needs to be running in order for the bot to work.

The bot does not buy or sell according to spreads.  It buys and sells on EMA crossovers only.  And not exactly on the crossover, it uses the data you put into the trading engine, such as Buy Thresholds, Sell Thresholds, Frequency, Offset, etc.  Browse back through the thread to see exactly how it uses this information.

I have my bot's frequency set for 1 hour so I don't see trades very often.  This is what I expect from it.  It may trade only a few times per month.  But as is often repeated in here, EMA trading is a LONG TERM strategy.  If it is trading too much, you are losing money.

Go to www.bitcoincharts.com and put in the same EMA values into their charts as you put into your bot.  You can see where the lines cross and trades should be made.  You can play with the data there and see how EMA performs over different time periods, such as hourly, 6-hours, daily, etc.

I don't often do a very good job at explaining, so hopefully someone else can help out with this as well...