Covid-19 vaccination becoming a criteria to live in the world - page 6.

Silberman

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Quote from: Viscore on September 11, 2021, 07:20:27 PM

Quote from: Silberman on September 11, 2021, 01:15:37 PM

Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on September 11, 2021, 08:06:27 AM

That's actually a good thing because that only means that countries are much more serious when it comes to trying to obliterate the pandemic once and for all, the only problem is that the idiot ant-vaxxers that's trying to hinder the progress towards herd immunity.

The issue is not as simple as you make it out to be, this is a classic case of individual rights and what society expects out of you, I have taken the vaccine and I would appreciate if the majority took the vaccine as well, but if you force people to take the vaccine then you are trampling on their rights, so the question is as what point society can do something like this and void the right to decide that people have over their own bodies? And this is not by any means an easy debate to have.

Well forcing someone to get vaccinated is already depriving them from their human right. The government is really serious in encouraging everyone to get vaccinated so that the disease will be prevented from spreading it but it does not stated in the law that it is mandatory and so everyone should comply.

However, with the latest implementations from the government, vaccine becomes a criteria to live in the world and those who can enjoy it and those who can't. So it is becoming unfair now to those who don't want to take the vaccine although its really necessary to get vaccinated as to stay away from the deadly virus.

Which is exactly my point, those that are not vaccinated are becoming almost second class citizens and this is not correct, we must try to encourage them to take the vaccine as I really think it is the best for them and for us but it is a completely different thing to force them to take it and if they do not to force such heavy consequences against them as there are many businesses that are not health related that are mandating their employees to get vaccinated or face termination.

DrBeer

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 14, 2021, 09:28:17 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on September 14, 2021, 05:47:52 AM

Quite an obvious and normal state! Vaccination reduces both morbidity and mortality. This means that it minimizes the huge costs of the state for the maintenance and treatment of patients, payments of social assistance, support for families who have lost breadwinners, etc. The costs of "relations with Covid" are huge sums that kill the budgets of countries. If this is a serious burden for monsters like the United States, then what about countries with a lower standard of living and income? Therefore, vaccination is not only the preservation of the population, but also the real salvation of states ...

The death toll in US currently stands at 680,282 (>2 per 1,000). I don't have accurate numbers for those who got hospitalized, but I assume that it will be in millions. Given the inflated healthcare costs in the US, this would have created an additional burden of hundreds of billions of USD to individuals, as well as for the state and federal governments. And this time the pandemic has impacted all the countries, irrespective of their financial state. But I agree with your post. For the third world, it is going to be really hard.

I even think that the United States in this "story" suffered financially, from the calculation of 1 resident, almost the most - in the fight against the pandemic, from the very beginning so many forces, equipment, personnel, money were involved, and at the same time the scale of the defeat was very high against the background of other countries. Plus, I know that the state has undertaken huge financial expenses for direct financial assistance to its citizens, as well as others (rations, food packages, etc.) ...
But the US economy / state budget is also a separate topic, and perhaps their economy will not suffer as much as others.

geegaw

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Quote from: Pulsar77 on September 14, 2021, 05:23:02 AM

The vaccination is becoming a criteria indeed and it must be also. Without vaccines, the probability of being taken into intensive care is rising very quickly. Because in that case, our immune system is having a big difficulty in fighting against the virus. And we have even deadlier variants now. We have no choice other than being vaccinated if we care about our life. There is no meaning in being anti-vaxxer.

Well, vaccination really stimulates the immune system and produces certain antibodies to limit the powerful attack and destruction abilities of Covid but instead of accepting vaccination and accompanying the government against this century's epidemic, many residents are still not united and insecure about vaccination due to many fatal and ineffective sources. but instead of accepting vaccination and accompanying the government against this century's epidemic, many residents are still not united and insecure about vaccination due to many fatal and ineffective sources.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: DrBeer on September 14, 2021, 05:47:52 AM

Quite an obvious and normal state! Vaccination reduces both morbidity and mortality. This means that it minimizes the huge costs of the state for the maintenance and treatment of patients, payments of social assistance, support for families who have lost breadwinners, etc. The costs of "relations with Covid" are huge sums that kill the budgets of countries. If this is a serious burden for monsters like the United States, then what about countries with a lower standard of living and income? Therefore, vaccination is not only the preservation of the population, but also the real salvation of states ...

The death toll in US currently stands at 680,282 (>2 per 1,000). I don't have accurate numbers for those who got hospitalized, but I assume that it will be in millions. Given the inflated healthcare costs in the US, this would have created an additional burden of hundreds of billions of USD to individuals, as well as for the state and federal governments. And this time the pandemic has impacted all the countries, irrespective of their financial state. But I agree with your post. For the third world, it is going to be really hard.

kotajikikox

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Quote from: Gozie51 on September 11, 2021, 08:01:53 AM

I now see a situation that the world is changing and is coming to a level where if you don't have a covid-19 vaccination clearence or means to verify that you have been vaccinated or have received the latest jab of the vaccine, you won't be allowed to buy or sell.

i also noticed this recently when a favorite mall of mine is now announced that they will never let people enters their premises if you won't show or provide your vaccination record in which i found not for human.

people knows their body, they knew if they can accumulate the vaccine or not.

there has cases here in my place where someone with Heart issue died after the vaccine just 12 hours later.

Ucy

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They would be able to effectively do that in places they properly control. That's why you need to be true cryptocurrency enthusiasts and know how to be independent and survive without them.
Unfortunately the foolish ones have been fighting lots of the contributions in Crypto from those who foresaw situations like that. Sometimes I see them as traitors and hope they change.
Everyone should be aiming for true independence from the system if they want to survive what is Really coming. "The best time to plant a tree was 20years,another best time is now".
Let the eye, ear, mouth, legs and other part of the body work in harmony together in Crypto space rather than working for the ruthless foreign enemy that dislike them.

DrBeer

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Quite an obvious and normal state! Vaccination reduces both morbidity and mortality. This means that it minimizes the huge costs of the state for the maintenance and treatment of patients, payments of social assistance, support for families who have lost breadwinners, etc. The costs of "relations with Covid" are huge sums that kill the budgets of countries. If this is a serious burden for monsters like the United States, then what about countries with a lower standard of living and income? Therefore, vaccination is not only the preservation of the population, but also the real salvation of states ...

Pulsar77

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The vaccination is becoming a criteria indeed and it must be also. Without vaccines, the probability of being taken into intensive care is rising very quickly. Because in that case, our immune system is having a big difficulty in fighting against the virus. And we have even deadlier variants now. We have no choice other than being vaccinated if we care about our life. There is no meaning in being anti-vaxxer.

iv4n

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Quote from: bakasabo on September 14, 2021, 04:03:48 AM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on September 14, 2021, 01:50:34 AM

It is the choice of the individual to decide whether he want to get vaccinated or not. But at the same time, it is the choice of the government to decide whether they want to give benefits to the unvaccinated people.

I would speak frankly, the first reason I took vaccine was to be able to travel abroad, visit places and store in my country. Safety was not the main reason to get it. During 1.5 years living with covid all around the world, none of my relatives or people around got symptoms. Even people around people I know did not get infected with covid.

I would like to comment on "it is the choice of the government to decide whether they want to give benefits to the unvaccinated people.". If this really happens, this will be negative actions against their own country and people.

If they dont want to give benefits, then let unvaccinated people free from taxes. Or it will look like they just take but dont give anything back. What do you mean under the word benefits ? Dont give medical treatment to unvaccinated? Police wont protect them and in case of fire let them burn? No social guaranties and no payments to unemployment?

There are already countries who divide population into citizens and non-citizen/alien and give them passports of different format, yet everyone pays identical taxes. I dont want "unvaccinated non-citizen with limited benefits" people to appear or be called like that.

Very nice comment Bakasabo! Very nice points and questions... but I would like to focus on the last lines, because it's the answer why this is happening!

Quote

Divide et impera!

This fuckers on top found a way to divide people even more, and this is what happens now... with all the differences out there we have another one, an invisible enemy that will divide people who took the vaccine and the ones who didn't! Governments are trying to emphasize all this, but they are doing that in such a stupid way, unlogical... there will be no food for people who are not vaccinated, but they will collect taxes from everyone! What a joke all this really is?!

I really can't believe how many brainwashed people walk around... and that number is only rising!

Quote

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
George Carlin

bakasabo

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on September 14, 2021, 01:50:34 AM

It is the choice of the individual to decide whether he want to get vaccinated or not. But at the same time, it is the choice of the government to decide whether they want to give benefits to the unvaccinated people.

I would speak frankly, the first reason I took vaccine was to be able to travel abroad, visit places and store in my country. Safety was not the main reason to get it. During 1.5 years living with covid all around the world, none of my relatives or people around got symptoms. Even people around people I know did not get infected with covid.

I would like to comment on "it is the choice of the government to decide whether they want to give benefits to the unvaccinated people.". If this really happens, this will be negative actions against their own country and people.

If they dont want to give benefits, then let unvaccinated people free from taxes. Or it will look like they just take but dont give anything back. What do you mean under the word benefits ? Dont give medical treatment to unvaccinated? Police wont protect them and in case of fire let them burn? No social guaranties and no payments to unemployment?

There are already countries who divide population into citizens and non-citizen/alien and give them passports of different format, yet everyone pays identical taxes. I dont want "unvaccinated non-citizen with limited benefits" people to appear or be called like that.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: noorman0 on September 13, 2021, 11:59:32 PM

Various pro-government public media in my country always report statistics that the increase in the number of vaccines is based on people's awareness of health care. The fact is that the poor have to show a vaccination card to get the basic food allowance which will apply for the next round. And I'm sure that this requirement will apply to anyone who wants to deal with government agencies in the future. This means that there is no freedom, the government is playing with bureaucratic pressure to fight that freedom.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with this move. It is the choice of the individual to decide whether he want to get vaccinated or not. But at the same time, it is the choice of the government to decide whether they want to give benefits to the unvaccinated people. Now you can't argue that you are fine with one, and not with the other. Here in my country, it has been found that close to 99% of the deaths from COVID are among the unvaccinated people. Those who refuse to take the vaccine are creating danger for others as well. So I don't find anything wrong with the measures from government agencies.

noorman0

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Quote from: RealMalatesta on September 13, 2021, 04:22:14 AM

-snip-
if you want to do it then you can go ahead and get vaccinated and if not you can leave it. They shouldn’t be forcing anyone to get vaccinated, and more of a lot of people are scared and they don’t trust whether they vaccine is reliable or not and the after effects of it is what you don’t know.

Various pro-government public media in my country always report statistics that the increase in the number of vaccines is based on people's awareness of health care. The fact is that the poor have to show a vaccination card to get the basic food allowance which will apply for the next round. And I'm sure that this requirement will apply to anyone who wants to deal with government agencies in the future. This means that there is no freedom, the government is playing with bureaucratic pressure to fight that freedom.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Wawa2013 on September 13, 2021, 07:05:02 PM

Moreover, in countries with high vaccination percentages, it is proven that the spread of the virus is more controlled. This means that vaccination
must indeed be required by the government, it seems that the government has to make difficult decisions for the safety of all its citizens.
As you said, a person who refuses to vaccinate can be a danger to himself and others around him. I think in the end everyone is forced to get
vaccinated, because like in my country to use public facilities, it is required to show a certificate that we have been vaccinated. So, like it or not,
people who previously refused to be vaccinated are forced to vaccinate for unrestricted activities.

It is a complex, and at the same time controversial topic. There may be cases where the individual may not be able to get vaccinated due to medical conditions, or due to some other factor. It is a very difficult question, to whether the restrictions should be applicable in such instances. IMO, irrespective of such conditions, they should be excluded from public places. Because this group still represents a greater than average risk of spreading COVID. The choice is very simple - get vaccinated and gain access to public places, or remain unvaccinated and stay away from crowded areas.

dunfida

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Quote from: perfect999 on September 13, 2021, 02:08:03 PM

Quote from: Rasa nanas on September 13, 2021, 11:40:51 AM

I'm a little confused by this situation. Actually, the vaccine is the right of every human being, so it means that every human being has the right to refuse not to be vaccinated. but most places require visitors to bring a vaccination card, so this is equivalent to forcing someone to receive the vaccine. super markets, tourist attractions, government offices, tourist attractions, and even going to other cities must bring a vaccination certificate.

Mate, I don't think getting vaccinated is a "choice" anymore given the severity of this virus. You need to understand that by not getting vaccinated you are not only risking your own life but also putting other's life at risk. No doubt, you have the right to suicide by not getting vaccinated but you cannot transmit the virus to others just because of your "choice".

Anyone who is against the vaccination process, please think about it twice, you are not just risking your own life but you might end up transmitting the virus to your loved ones.

Vaccine doesnt give out guarantee that you wont get infected thats why it is just wrong you do tell that non-vaccinated people could really put up other peoples lives to risk.You should at least have some consideration

before making those kind of conclusions.Of course it would be still a personal choice because no one forces out for you to get vaccinated unless if its really done on harsh way but it seems government

in some countries do really make out some desperate moves for them to vaccinate out people on their vicinity.

Wawa2013

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 11, 2021, 10:35:06 PM

Quote from: Wawa2013 on September 11, 2021, 09:18:33 PM

I have to admit that currently the way to fight COVID-19 with vaccination is mandatory, because it is not enough to just follow health protocols.
Moreover, with the increasing number of variants of this virus, it is very natural that in the end some countries vaccination becomes mandatory.
But indeed on the one hand we must respect those who refuse to be vaccinated, because I agree that there should be no coercion to vaccinate.
If there are people who refuse the vaccine, it is enough to provide education and their movement is limited, they are not allowed to do too many
activities outside the home.

It is a very complex topic. Obviously we should respect the decision of those who refuse to get vaccinated. But at the same time, we need to remember that those who refuse to get vaccinated are not only putting their lives in danger, but also endangering others lives as well. So this presents a very uncomfortable question on whether we should tolerate these anti-vaxxers among ourselves. The fact is that this pandemic would have been under control by now, if vaccination was being made mandatory. That was not done and the freedom to choose was given to individuals. But that is costing lives now.

Moreover, in countries with high vaccination percentages, it is proven that the spread of the virus is more controlled. This means that vaccination
must indeed be required by the government, it seems that the government has to make difficult decisions for the safety of all its citizens.
As you said, a person who refuses to vaccinate can be a danger to himself and others around him. I think in the end everyone is forced to get
vaccinated, because like in my country to use public facilities, it is required to show a certificate that we have been vaccinated. So, like it or not,
people who previously refused to be vaccinated are forced to vaccinate for unrestricted activities.

Tumanggor

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Quote from: Oasisman on September 13, 2021, 01:45:05 AM

Quote from: Tumanggor on September 12, 2021, 07:15:41 PM

~

I don't know, but is that really okay If you took the 1st dose from different brand and another brand for the 2nd dose? Is that recommended?
I mean this vaccines might contain vital contents that may trigger hidden illnesses.
I'm not sure, I'm not expert. I just want to make sure as I'm about to have my 2nd dose 2 weeks from now and I want the same vaccine brand from my 1st.

here we cannot choose which vaccine to inject, everything is regulated by the government and simultaneously carried out
wave 1 = Sinovac and second wave = Astra. even those who got the third injection (for health workers) got the Moderna vaccine

Quote from: Oasisman on September 13, 2021, 01:45:05 AM

Whether we like it or not, the vaccine will soon become compulsory and it will be a requirement when we're traveling or entering a building.
However, people who don't want to get vaccinated can tamper a fake vaccination documents.

Several forgeries of vaccine certificates have been arrested, the government here uses a tool such as a barcode scan and it is clearly stated whether the vaccine certificate is fake or genuine

perfect999

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Quote from: Rasa nanas on September 13, 2021, 11:40:51 AM

I'm a little confused by this situation. Actually, the vaccine is the right of every human being, so it means that every human being has the right to refuse not to be vaccinated. but most places require visitors to bring a vaccination card, so this is equivalent to forcing someone to receive the vaccine. super markets, tourist attractions, government offices, tourist attractions, and even going to other cities must bring a vaccination certificate.

Mate, I don't think getting vaccinated is a "choice" anymore given the severity of this virus. You need to understand that by not getting vaccinated you are not only risking your own life but also putting other's life at risk. No doubt, you have the right to suicide by not getting vaccinated but you cannot transmit the virus to others just because of your "choice".

Anyone who is against the vaccination process, please think about it twice, you are not just risking your own life but you might end up transmitting the virus to your loved ones.

kendedese

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The policy aims to make the majority of the community willing to receive vaccines and group immunity can be formed immediately. Now that fake news about vaccines has spread, without such a policy most people would of course refuse to be vaccinated. With this policy of course the pandemic will end soon and the economy will recover soon.

Rasa nanas

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I'm a little confused by this situation. Actually, the vaccine is the right of every human being, so it means that every human being has the right to refuse not to be vaccinated. but most places require visitors to bring a vaccination card, so this is equivalent to forcing someone to receive the vaccine. super markets, tourist attractions, government offices, tourist attractions, and even going to other cities must bring a vaccination certificate.

bitzizzix

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Quote from: ZaraCB on September 13, 2021, 07:31:26 AM

Covid 19 vaccination is necessary not only for oneself but also our family and society. There are some uneducated people in our country who are afraid to get vaccinated. But now they have to show the vaccination card to enter various educational institutions, banks, govt offices. As a result, they have been forced to vaccinate.

I think those who refuse to be vaccinated are mostly due to lack of information about vaccination and distrust of vaccines, Worry about side effects and also vaccine production being judged too fast, and various other reasons.
the government or anyone associated with the vaccine program must provide the general public with accessible and reliable means of information, and in addition those who have been vaccinated should recommend to others that vaccination is harmless.

and feel unfair because for those who have not been vaccinated are not allowed to travel anywhere and also to enter anywhere must show a certificate of vaccination and if not then they are not allowed to enter or travel.
and gradually those who refuse to be vaccinated will change their minds and most importantly convince them in any way and also tell in as much detail as possible the safety and benefits of being vaccinated.

Topic: Covid-19 vaccination becoming a criteria to live in the world - page 6. (Read 1034 times)