Cricket match prediction discussions - page 72.

Sithara007

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Quote from: JSRAW on June 07, 2023, 02:41:02 AM

Well, you are free to disagree, which is fine with me but these are not my views but facts.

Atm it's around 18% but I would be very pleased and surprised if it goes to even 25-30%. Also i think we shouldn't compare Cricket with other sports leagues as cricket is a private club IMO, be it ICC or IPL and need a ridiculous amount of reforms.

And one major reason is there is no competition for IPL in cricket so hardly any pushback against the system but If by any chance some other cricket league rises up and starts spending a big percentage on players then there might be some pressure on BCCI, also don't forget there is no player's union in India.

One of the reasons why the share of salary in IPL is quite low (18% is still decent, I would say) is because the BCCI uses a large part of that revenue to construct infrastructural facilities, and to fund domestic cricket. India has the largest and most complicated domestic system in the world with a total of 38 first class teams. And there are U-23, U-19 and U-16 competitions for both men and women. In the end, IPL revenues trickles down to these less known plyers and a part of that also ends up with non-playing staff such as groundmen and curators. In a way you are right. If there is no purse limit, then this distribution will cease to exist and a few top players will pocket lion's share of the revenues.

But at the same time, this is what the BCCI is doing at international level. Rather than sharing revenue with the smaller nations, they are now pocketing 38.5% of the funds. Is it that difficult for them to practice what they do at home at international level?

JSRAW

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 07, 2023, 02:16:32 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on June 07, 2023, 02:01:40 AM

Yes, it does but a restriction on the purse came after all stakeholder consensus, hence the model was approved and they are gradually increasing the cap.

There is no doubt that it will definitely benefit the players but the way the auction goes I reckon a majority of the money would go to limited players.

I remember reading some reports last year that the franchise exhausts their 80%-85% purse on 4-5 players max and the rest of the 15%-20% goes to the remaining squad.

Well.. I don't agree with that. If there is free market, then the tier-2 player salaries are going to increase more than the top players. As of now, not enough purse is left after the franchises purchase their top players. This will change if the free market strategy is followed. Anyway, this will not happen until there is a major revamp of the Indian Premier League, which I am not expecting for the next 10-15 years. The current purse seems too low to compensate all the players adequately. Only around 10% to 15% of the IPL salaries are currently being spent on player salaries, which is very low when compared to other leagues. The media rights revenues have gone up steeply over the years. But player salaries have not witnessed any such raise.

Well, you are free to disagree, which is fine with me but these are not my views but facts.

Atm it's around 18% but I would be very pleased and surprised if it goes to even 25-30%. Also i think we shouldn't compare Cricket with other sports leagues as cricket is a private club IMO, be it ICC or IPL and need a ridiculous amount of reforms.

And one major reason is there is no competition for IPL in cricket so hardly any pushback against the system but If by any chance some other cricket league rises up and starts spending a big percentage on players then there might be some pressure on BCCI, also don't forget there is no player's union in India.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 07, 2023, 02:16:32 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on June 07, 2023, 02:01:40 AM

Yes, it does but a restriction on the purse came after all stakeholder consensus, hence the model was approved and they are gradually increasing the cap.

There is no doubt that it will definitely benefit the players but the way the auction goes I reckon a majority of the money would go to limited players.

I remember reading some reports last year that the franchise exhausts their 80%-85% purse on 4-5 players max and the rest of the 15%-20% goes to the remaining squad.

Well.. I don't agree with that. If there is free market, then the tier-2 player salaries are going to increase more than the top players. As of now, not enough purse is left after the franchises purchase their top players. This will change if the free market strategy is followed. Anyway, this will not happen until there is a major revamp of the Indian Premier League, which I am not expecting for the next 10-15 years. The current purse seems too low to compensate all the players adequately. Only around 10% to 15% of the IPL salaries are currently being spent on player salaries, which is very low when compared to other leagues. The media rights revenues have gone up steeply over the years. But player salaries have not witnessed any such raise.

@Sithara007 I too doubt that we will see a free market strategy for IPL player’s salary unless player’s collectively raise their voice against this system but then there’s always a risk that those player’s could then be boycotted by the franchise clubs. Lastly in the current scenario the only way a player can get a pay rise is by performing better then other’s or risk being getting the same low salary.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 06, 2023, 08:45:13 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on June 06, 2023, 03:14:00 AM

If they do then Ambani and Adani will sweep every auction and buy every major player by outbidding everyone. RCB and CSK's owners do have money but i guess they won't be able to compete with the former duo.

So overall putting a cap on team purse is not a bad idea as it provides a level playing field to every stakeholder.

Well.. that's what free market means. And don't underestimate the other players. Ambani and Adani maybe rich, but other franchise owners are also billionaires. For example, Lucknow Super Giants was purchased by Sanjiv Goenka for a massive amount of ₹7,090 crores. If he can spend this much for the franchise, then what stops him from spending ₹50 crore for Virat Kohli or Mohammad Shami? If such a system is in place, it will benefit the players immensely. Their salaries are going to go up by 5x or even 10x. IPL players will become some of the most expensive athletes in the world.

Those who can buy teams for IPL can never have less money. Maybe Mukesh Ambani has a huge amount of money so the rest of the team owners are not financially weak. They usually express their willingness to buy a team by calculating how much an IPL can cost. Mumbai Indians bought players for a lot of money but other teams couldn't buy players for that much money seeing that other teams have less money. If you look at Gujarat Titans you will see that the team did not buy that many notable players but still they finished runners up in this IPL.

We always have to use money at the right time at the right place.

Sithara007

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Quote from: JSRAW on June 07, 2023, 02:01:40 AM

Yes, it does but a restriction on the purse came after all stakeholder consensus, hence the model was approved and they are gradually increasing the cap.

There is no doubt that it will definitely benefit the players but the way the auction goes I reckon a majority of the money would go to limited players.

I remember reading some reports last year that the franchise exhausts their 80%-85% purse on 4-5 players max and the rest of the 15%-20% goes to the remaining squad.

Well.. I don't agree with that. If there is free market, then the tier-2 player salaries are going to increase more than the top players. As of now, not enough purse is left after the franchises purchase their top players. This will change if the free market strategy is followed. Anyway, this will not happen until there is a major revamp of the Indian Premier League, which I am not expecting for the next 10-15 years. The current purse seems too low to compensate all the players adequately. Only around 10% to 15% of the IPL salaries are currently being spent on player salaries, which is very low when compared to other leagues. The media rights revenues have gone up steeply over the years. But player salaries have not witnessed any such raise.

JSRAW

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 06, 2023, 08:45:13 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on June 06, 2023, 03:14:00 AM

If they do then Ambani and Adani will sweep every auction and buy every major player by outbidding everyone. RCB and CSK's owners do have money but i guess they won't be able to compete with the former duo.

So overall putting a cap on team purse is not a bad idea as it provides a level playing field to every stakeholder.

Well.. that's what free market means. And don't underestimate the other players. Ambani and Adani maybe rich, but other franchise owners are also billionaires. For example, Lucknow Super Giants was purchased by Sanjiv Goenka for a massive amount of ₹7,090 crores. If he can spend this much for the franchise, then what stops him from spending ₹50 crore for Virat Kohli or Mohammad Shami? If such a system is in place, it will benefit the players immensely. Their salaries are going to go up by 5x or even 10x. IPL players will become some of the most expensive athletes in the world.

Yes, it does but a restriction on the purse came after all stakeholder consensus, hence the model was approved and they are gradually increasing the cap.

There is no doubt that it will definitely benefit the players but the way the auction goes I reckon a majority of the money would go to limited players.

I remember reading some reports last year that the franchise exhausts their 80%-85% purse on 4-5 players max and the rest of the 15%-20% goes to the remaining squad.

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Quote from: Litzki1990 on June 06, 2023, 03:26:49 AM

Quote from: Dimitri94 on June 05, 2023, 07:10:15 AM

Quote from: Minor Miner on June 04, 2023, 11:51:48 AM

It is true that the IPL is self-sufficient. And as long as the Indian people are interested in the IPL they are going to continue to improve and flourish. Even if cricket is somehow dead in the West I believe it is going to be alive in the subcontinent and the IPL will also do well. But we all know that things can change very quickly. And I also said that-

"cricket is not going to survive throughout only Indian and Pakistani players"

By that I meant cricket is not going to survive if the associate nations keep making national teams with Indian and Pakistani players. They will have to find players of their own.

We can easily say that IPL has been able to drastically change the image of cricket. Franchise cricket tournaments in other countries have not gained much popularity since the start of IPL. Cricket was once invented by the West but now it is controlled by Indian subcontinent. Especially India and Pakistan are known as big cricket countries. But in terms of popularity, India is still at the top of all. I totally agree with you on this. Without native cricketers, the cricket of that country can never prosper. There will be no cricket fans. Those who are trying to play cricket by foreign players will have to conduct cricket in the same way for the life time.

It would be wrong to say that cricket is popular only in India and Pakistan because cricket is very popular in several Asian countries including India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. But India will undoubtedly go all the way in terms of hosting and supporting cricket. Because only India created a stir in the cricket world by starting the domestic league, various countries such as Australia (BBL), Bangladesh, (BPL), Pakistan (PSL), West Indies (CPL), Sri Lanka (LPL), organized these domestic leagues. And every country is getting huge popularity by organizing these leagues, the main reason is that domestic and foreign cricketers have great games in these domestic leagues. These franchise leagues in different countries have taken cricket to another level.

Of course, every country in Asia is very much prominent in cricket. Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Afghanistan are each quite advanced in cricket. They certainly deserve praise. However, these countries are not equal to India or Pakistan, they are not behind in any area. I would agree with you that India is now a very suitable country to host almost all forms of cricket. To get this position, they have sacrificed almost many things like time, money, effort hard work etc. Moreover, since franchise leagues are held at different times, each league in these countries is popular.

Sithara007

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Quote from: JSRAW on June 06, 2023, 03:14:00 AM

If they do then Ambani and Adani will sweep every auction and buy every major player by outbidding everyone. RCB and CSK's owners do have money but i guess they won't be able to compete with the former duo.

So overall putting a cap on team purse is not a bad idea as it provides a level playing field to every stakeholder.

Well.. that's what free market means. And don't underestimate the other players. Ambani and Adani maybe rich, but other franchise owners are also billionaires. For example, Lucknow Super Giants was purchased by Sanjiv Goenka for a massive amount of ₹7,090 crores. If he can spend this much for the franchise, then what stops him from spending ₹50 crore for Virat Kohli or Mohammad Shami? If such a system is in place, it will benefit the players immensely. Their salaries are going to go up by 5x or even 10x. IPL players will become some of the most expensive athletes in the world.

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Quote from: JSRAW on June 05, 2023, 11:26:36 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on June 05, 2023, 09:46:39 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on June 05, 2023, 10:03:48 AM

In my reading, there is no scope for relegation in the IPL even if we get 20-ish teams competition.
Saying this because IPL has become a printing money affair, followed by entertainment and a pinch of competitiveness. Also, franchises won't like this idea due to financial reasons.

Agreed. It took them 15 years to start the WPL, because the franchises were concerned that it will impact the popularity of the Indian Premier League. Under these circumstances, there is zero chance that they will agree for a second division franchise league for men, especially if there are clauses for promotion and relegation. Imagine the two bottom ranking teams - Hyderabad Sunrisers and Delhi Capitals not playing in the next season's IPL. How much losses will the owners of these two franchises incur? It is simply not practical.

Or worse if big money making franchises like CSK, MI and RCB go down at the point table.
These guys attract the maximum number of eyeballs and contribute significantly in IPL's revenue pot so one can imagine, what would happen if there is a relegation system in place.

I agree. Giving any/all franchises an unlimited amount of money is going to be a very bad decision to take. We will see that those who have money are going to get almost all the important and good players. There is going to be a huge imbalance and it is certainly not going to work out.

And about the relegation system, I also agree that if the franchise who are very big does get relegated, it is going to be a big problem and there will be a dip in the viewership. BCCI does not want that. So that is a big reason why I think we might not ever see a relegation system in the IPL.

Litzki1990

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Quote from: Dimitri94 on June 05, 2023, 07:10:15 AM

Quote from: Minor Miner on June 04, 2023, 11:51:48 AM

It is true that the IPL is self-sufficient. And as long as the Indian people are interested in the IPL they are going to continue to improve and flourish. Even if cricket is somehow dead in the West I believe it is going to be alive in the subcontinent and the IPL will also do well. But we all know that things can change very quickly. And I also said that-

"cricket is not going to survive throughout only Indian and Pakistani players"

By that I meant cricket is not going to survive if the associate nations keep making national teams with Indian and Pakistani players. They will have to find players of their own.

We can easily say that IPL has been able to drastically change the image of cricket. Franchise cricket tournaments in other countries have not gained much popularity since the start of IPL. Cricket was once invented by the West but now it is controlled by Indian subcontinent. Especially India and Pakistan are known as big cricket countries. But in terms of popularity, India is still at the top of all. I totally agree with you on this. Without native cricketers, the cricket of that country can never prosper. There will be no cricket fans. Those who are trying to play cricket by foreign players will have to conduct cricket in the same way for the life time.

It would be wrong to say that cricket is popular only in India and Pakistan because cricket is very popular in several Asian countries including India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. But India will undoubtedly go all the way in terms of hosting and supporting cricket. Because only India created a stir in the cricket world by starting the domestic league, various countries such as Australia (BBL), Bangladesh, (BPL), Pakistan (PSL), West Indies (CPL), Sri Lanka (LPL), organized these domestic leagues. And every country is getting huge popularity by organizing these leagues, the main reason is that domestic and foreign cricketers have great games in these domestic leagues. These franchise leagues in different countries have taken cricket to another level.

JSRAW

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 06, 2023, 12:42:45 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on June 05, 2023, 11:26:36 PM

Or worse if big money making franchises like CSK, MI and RCB go down at the point table.

These guys attract the maximum number of eyeballs and contribute significantly in IPL's revenue pot so one can imagine, what would happen if there is a relegation system in place.

The best thing to do is to remove the limit on team purse and allow them to purchase players as they please (similar to the case with English Premier League). The franchises that you have mentioned (CSK, RCB, MI, KKR.etc) are quite rich, and maybe able to afford the top players. This will eliminate any chances of these franchises getting relegated. But then, even if they get relegated, it will have its own benefits. The division 2 league in that case will get a lot of attention, and in the end the BCCI will end up even richer. But none of this is going to happen for the next 20 years at least.

If they do then Ambani and Adani will sweep every auction and buy every major player by outbidding everyone. RCB and CSK's owners do have money but i guess they won't be able to compete with the former duo.

So overall putting a cap on team purse is not a bad idea as it provides a level playing field to every stakeholder.

Sithara007

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Quote from: JSRAW on June 05, 2023, 11:26:36 PM

Or worse if big money making franchises like CSK, MI and RCB go down at the point table.

These guys attract the maximum number of eyeballs and contribute significantly in IPL's revenue pot so one can imagine, what would happen if there is a relegation system in place.

The best thing to do is to remove the limit on team purse and allow them to purchase players as they please (similar to the case with English Premier League). The franchises that you have mentioned (CSK, RCB, MI, KKR.etc) are quite rich, and maybe able to afford the top players. This will eliminate any chances of these franchises getting relegated. But then, even if they get relegated, it will have its own benefits. The division 2 league in that case will get a lot of attention, and in the end the BCCI will end up even richer. But none of this is going to happen for the next 20 years at least.

JSRAW

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 05, 2023, 09:46:39 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on June 05, 2023, 10:03:48 AM

In my reading, there is no scope for relegation in the IPL even if we get 20-ish teams competition.

Saying this because IPL has become a printing money affair, followed by entertainment and a pinch of competitiveness. Also, franchises won't like this idea due to financial reasons.

Agreed. It took them 15 years to start the WPL, because the franchises were concerned that it will impact the popularity of the Indian Premier League. Under these circumstances, there is zero chance that they will agree for a second division franchise league for men, especially if there are clauses for promotion and relegation. Imagine the two bottom ranking teams - Hyderabad Sunrisers and Delhi Capitals not playing in the next season's IPL. How much losses will the owners of these two franchises incur? It is simply not practical.

Or worse if big money making franchises like CSK, MI and RCB go down at the point table.

These guys attract the maximum number of eyeballs and contribute significantly in IPL's revenue pot so one can imagine, what would happen if there is a relegation system in place.

Sithara007

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Quote from: JSRAW on June 05, 2023, 10:03:48 AM

In my reading, there is no scope for relegation in the IPL even if we get 20-ish teams competition.

Saying this because IPL has become a printing money affair, followed by entertainment and a pinch of competitiveness. Also, franchises won't like this idea due to financial reasons.

Agreed. It took them 15 years to start the WPL, because the franchises were concerned that it will impact the popularity of the Indian Premier League. Under these circumstances, there is zero chance that they will agree for a second division franchise league for men, especially if there are clauses for promotion and relegation. Imagine the two bottom ranking teams - Hyderabad Sunrisers and Delhi Capitals not playing in the next season's IPL. How much losses will the owners of these two franchises incur? It is simply not practical.

MinMan

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Quote from: JSRAW on June 05, 2023, 10:03:48 AM

In my reading, there is no scope for relegation in the IPL even if we get 20-ish teams competition.

Saying this because IPL has become a printing money affair, followed by entertainment and a pinch of competitiveness. Also, franchises won't like this idea due to financial reasons.

Right now 10 teams system is really impressive for them with BCCI needs to work on all aspects because jumping into any other way because they need to check all plus and negative points as well which are most important because as they are going this could be one of the most profitable in sports history and if I am not going wrong then surely they need to study about the USA sports system because this could be more profitable for them as there is also no relegation system, and they are growing sports positively here if they do few changes and work on structure and system cricket could be at his best here in this region.

Three, four months game and player could be most beneficial with this and franchise will be also having good revenue from this all but in near future surely these things also need few changes as well.

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Quote from: Minor Miner on June 05, 2023, 07:41:58 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on June 05, 2023, 04:46:59 AM

Yeah, enough talent to entertain more teams and 15-16/more teams should be BCCI's goal and i am sure they want the same in the longer run.

But these things won't happen in this decade because atm they can't add more teams in the current cycle (2023-27 -media rights deal-) and if we have to guess then the next cycle would follow the same pattern and if it does then we are looking at 12 teams IPL from 2028-32) at best.

Well if it is only 12 teams then it is going to be hard to actually put on a system like the relegation zone. Because I don't think only two teams having a separate kind of league is actually something that makes sense. At the same time, it does not make sense to put 4 teams in another separate league when you only have 8 in the main one after that. So, personally, I don't see the relegation system put on by the IPL anytime soon I guess. But it would have been really incredible to see.

In my reading, there is no scope for relegation in the IPL even if we get 20-ish teams competition.

Saying this because IPL has become a printing money affair, followed by entertainment and a pinch of competitiveness. Also, franchises won't like this idea due to financial reasons.

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Quote from: JSRAW on June 05, 2023, 04:46:59 AM

Yeah, enough talent to entertain more teams and 15-16/more teams should be BCCI's goal and i am sure they want the same in the longer run.

But these things won't happen in this decade because atm they can't add more teams in the current cycle (2023-27 -media rights deal-) and if we have to guess then the next cycle would follow the same pattern and if it does then we are looking at 12 teams IPL from 2028-32) at best.

Well if it is only 12 teams then it is going to be hard to actually put on a system like the relegation zone. Because I don't think only two teams having a separate kind of league is actually something that makes sense. At the same time, it does not make sense to put 4 teams in another separate league when you only have 8 in the main one after that. So, personally, I don't see the relegation system put on by the IPL anytime soon I guess. But it would have been really incredible to see.

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Quote from: Minor Miner on June 04, 2023, 11:51:48 AM

It is true that the IPL is self-sufficient. And as long as the Indian people are interested in the IPL they are going to continue to improve and flourish. Even if cricket is somehow dead in the West I believe it is going to be alive in the subcontinent and the IPL will also do well. But we all know that things can change very quickly. And I also said that-

"cricket is not going to survive throughout only Indian and Pakistani players"

By that I meant cricket is not going to survive if the associate nations keep making national teams with Indian and Pakistani players. They will have to find players of their own.

We can easily say that IPL has been able to drastically change the image of cricket. Franchise cricket tournaments in other countries have not gained much popularity since the start of IPL. Cricket was once invented by the West but now it is controlled by Indian subcontinent. Especially India and Pakistan are known as big cricket countries. But in terms of popularity, India is still at the top of all. I totally agree with you on this. Without native cricketers, the cricket of that country can never prosper. There will be no cricket fans. Those who are trying to play cricket by foreign players will have to conduct cricket in the same way for the life time.

JSRAW

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Quote from: Minor Miner on June 04, 2023, 11:51:48 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on June 02, 2023, 09:30:42 AM

Quote from: Minor Miner on June 01, 2023, 01:36:15 PM

I think it might happen in a span of 10 years. The way IPL is growing right now I do not see this as an impossible task. .

For the relegation system or the IPL window to expand IPL needs to grow drastically in terms of teams, hypothetically let's say 10 more teams in the next decade.

But If we analyze the IPL expansion so far, then there is virtually no chance. I've mentioned earlier that the next 4 year deal is locked in based on 10 teams so there would be no expansion. There might be some chance of 12 teams (2 additional teams) IPL after the 2027 cycle.

I personally think it can be done even with 15 teams. I will also say that India as a country has enough players to actually have 15 total teams in the IPL. Money is also not a problem so they can bring in foreign players as well. But sometimes we see the big investors tend to invest in the teams that are well established. So that can be a problem while trying to increase the number of teams in the IPL. But I believe if there is a relegation system the IPL is going to be more interesting.

Yeah, enough talent to entertain more teams and 15-16/more teams should be BCCI's goal and i am sure they want the same in the longer run.

But these things won't happen in this decade because atm they can't add more teams in the current cycle (2023-27 -media rights deal-) and if we have to guess then the next cycle would follow the same pattern and if it does then we are looking at 12 teams IPL from 2028-32) at best.

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Quote from: JSRAW on June 02, 2023, 09:30:42 AM

Quote from: Minor Miner on June 01, 2023, 01:36:15 PM

I think it might happen in a span of 10 years. The way IPL is growing right now I do not see this as an impossible task. .

For the relegation system or the IPL window to expand IPL needs to grow drastically in terms of teams, hypothetically let's say 10 more teams in the next decade.

But If we analyze the IPL expansion so far, then there is virtually no chance. I've mentioned earlier that the next 4 year deal is locked in based on 10 teams so there would be no expansion. There might be some chance of 12 teams (2 additional teams) IPL after the 2027 cycle.

I personally think it can be done even with 15 teams. I will also say that India as a country has enough players to actually have 15 total teams in the IPL. Money is also not a problem so they can bring in foreign players as well. But sometimes we see the big investors tend to invest in the teams that are well established. So that can be a problem while trying to increase the number of teams in the IPL. But I believe if there is a relegation system the IPL is going to be more interesting.

Quote from: eaLiTy on June 01, 2023, 05:12:02 PM

Quote from: Minor Miner on June 01, 2023, 01:36:15 PM

~
I think it might happen in a span of 10 years. The way IPL is growing right now I do not see this as an impossible task. The only problem is that I do not trust cricket to actually stay alive after 20 years. Unless ICC changes some rules. Cricket is not going to survive only throughout the Indian and Pakistani players, if you know what I mean.

Cricket will be well and alive as long as people are interested in them and the reason IPL and India is able to generate huge revenue than any other country is because of the fan base and the ability to fill any stadium whenever a match is played and the TRP rating they are receiving. Australia, New Zealand and England along with the other Asian countries are the major teams and it will be like that for the decades to come and the present fan base wont be diminishing.

It is true that the IPL is self-sufficient. And as long as the Indian people are interested in the IPL they are going to continue to improve and flourish. Even if cricket is somehow dead in the West I believe it is going to be alive in the subcontinent and the IPL will also do well. But we all know that things can change very quickly. And I also said that-

"cricket is not going to survive throughout only Indian and Pakistani players"

By that I meant cricket is not going to survive if the associate nations keep making national teams with Indian and Pakistani players. They will have to find players of their own.

Topic: Cricket match prediction discussions - page 72. (Read 603184 times)