[DASH/XDN/XMR/SDC] Comparison between the most known anonymous coins (MUST READ) - page 20.

dasource

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Quote from: illodin on March 16, 2015, 03:58:19 PM

Quote from: dasource on March 16, 2015, 03:16:17 PM

Quote from: illodin on March 16, 2015, 02:22:44 PM

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because ~~DRK~~ DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when ~~DRK~~ DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

So you are saying you are willing to risk all on the basis one day 90%+ of masternodes do not operate at a handful of providers? and for all you know currently the so called "anon" transactions are already being de-anonymized?

That's not at all what I'm saying. When I think DASH is big enough that NSA might try to take over all of the nodes, and I'm doing something I don't want NSA to know, I'll run my own masternode on raspberry pi 3 and use that as one of the mixing nodes. But then again, I might fail anyway as they have my computer backdoored already.

Buddy you cannot run a cryto currency saying it is anonymous and then add the tag line "only once it has enough value and we move our 92%+ masternodes off cloud providers?" ... (also all the data you leave on the cloud providers will help then deanonymize previous transactions etc) ...
I am sorry but that just does not cut it! If I want to use a privacy centric currency I want reassurance it is "anonymous" today...

illodin

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Quote from: dasource on March 16, 2015, 03:16:17 PM

Quote from: illodin on March 16, 2015, 02:22:44 PM

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because ~~DRK~~ DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when ~~DRK~~ DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

So you are saying you are willing to risk all on the basis one day 90%+ of masternodes do not operate at a handful of providers? and for all you know currently the so called "anon" transactions are already being de-anonymized?

That's not at all what I'm saying. When I think DASH is big enough that NSA might try to take over all of the nodes, and I'm doing something I don't want NSA to know, I'll run my own masternode on raspberry pi 3 and use that as one of the mixing nodes. But then again, I might fail anyway as they have my computer backdoored already.

dasource

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Quote from: illodin on March 16, 2015, 02:22:44 PM

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because ~~DRK~~ DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when ~~DRK~~ DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

So you are saying you are willing to risk all on the basis one day 90%+ of masternodes do not operate at a handful of providers? and for all you know currently the so called "anon" transactions are already being de-anonymized?

illodin

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Activity: 966

Merit: 1003

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because ~~DRK~~ DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when ~~DRK~~ DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

dasource

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Quote from: bitcreditscc on March 16, 2015, 07:06:02 AM

Quote from: dasource on March 16, 2015, 06:24:37 AM

Quote from: toknormal on March 12, 2015, 03:37:12 AM

Whatever the specific comparisons on the effectiveness of cryptography vs mixing, they are largely irrelevant because darkcoin's massive redundancy and iterative approach blows away any deficiency. It's also a more holistic approach which addresses monetary priorities rather than security ones.

For a prospective monetary medium, thats the right way around in my opinion.

I would have to disagree for a number of reasons.

Firstly, most MasterNodes(DRK) are currently hosted on VMs and that in itself is your biggest design down-fall. MN need to be "running" to provide a service and that requires a reliable and cheap place to host (so where does everyone flock to? yeah you got it Amazon, Vultr, DO etc). Where as cryptography based solution does not require this.

Secondly, as our good friend at ZeroCash said "methods of analysis only get stronger" - a cryptography based solution is the only way forward IMO.

As someone who has spent the best part of the last 11 years in the cloud R&D arena I know how easy it is for the Big Brother to request and gain access to data from cloud providers without the end user ever knowing .. and this my friend is where MasterNodes has a major design flaw. For all you know a very large % (very very large) is already de-anonymised.

There are far too many people in this space who spout out tech knowledge without understanding it; very dangerous!!
Lastly, I have yet to see a solution to the "anonymity" war which is better than a cryptography based one.

flaws in your assesment,
MN is nothing special, it's just a wallet with extra settings enabled, there is no requirement for VPS, it's just a choice.
DRK is global, there are tons of places in the world where you can host a MN and noone will bother you.

You clearly don't understand the function of MN that is why you would say

Quote

For all you know a very large % (very very large) is already de-anonymised.

Every Wallet is a potential masternode, there is no de anonymizing the whole network.

No sir, there is no flaws in my assessment. Only flaws here are peoples ability to understand the technology.
Let me make it easy for you to digest.

67% of MasterNodes reside at 5 different ASNs
92% of MasterNodes reside at 9 different ASNs

...so to de-anonymize 92% of the MN network (on a basic TX basis) all I need to-do is "work closely" with 9 different hosting providers... get a copy of the TXs and then run chain analysis software on it to de-anonymize the lot! And you as a MN operator would be none the wiser (yes because 90% of MN operators don't have a clue about the tech)

Quote from: bitcreditscc on March 16, 2015, 07:06:02 AM

Quote

There are far too many people in this space who spout out tech knowledge without understanding it; very dangerous!!

You fall in that category.

:facepalm:

Quote from: bitcreditscc on March 16, 2015, 07:06:02 AM

I do agree that Cryptographic solutions are better and are something to strive for, but there are many ways to skin a cat.

The only sensible comment you have made... you are making progress.

illodin

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Quote from: ffmad on March 16, 2015, 10:15:15 AM

"Dash" objective look like: "Dash will be used by the average guy to do an average buy". Do you really think he will use an anon coin for that ?

Exactly, especially if he has nothing to hide!

EDIT: Shit, I should start charging 10 SDC for each bump. Gotta download a wallet first so I can post my addy, just a moment.

ffmad

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Quote from: stonehedge on March 16, 2015, 09:56:28 AM

Quote from: ffmad on March 16, 2015, 09:44:53 AM

Quote from: stonehedge on March 16, 2015, 08:13:26 AM

Quote from: rustynailer on March 16, 2015, 08:09:20 AM

Quote from: stonehedge on March 16, 2015, 08:02:50 AM

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race? What does this even mean?

They are not Dark anymore, they are Dash. Is this not a complete change in direction? Consumer adoption seems to be more the priority rather than anonymity.

The name change does not alter the underlying technology at all. DRK already has growing adoption and the hope is to increase this and speed it up. Anonymity is still a core product.

DRK want to be the next Bitcoin. Be a good coin, accepted by everyone.

It might be the death of this coin as an anon coin, seriously. If you want to see "Dash" accepted by Dell, it won't be anonymous at all.

You can't do two opposite aims at the same time. Dash will surely continue to grow, but not as an anon coin ... Roll Eyes

Some heavy supporters of DRK have already understood that, for example, Sangoku who was shouting "DarkCoin" everywhere in the French section of Bitcointalk has now stopped to support it. (And he was an heavy supporter since day one)

What a load of bullshit. How does the fact we have greater adoption than any over anon coin mean that we are less anon?

What adoption ?

At the moment, DarkCoin is accepted on some dark markets and some unknown websites.

"Dash" objective look like: "Dash will be used by the average guy to do an average buy". Do you really think he will use an anon coin for that ?

stonehedge

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Quote from: ffmad on March 16, 2015, 09:44:53 AM

Quote from: stonehedge on March 16, 2015, 08:13:26 AM

Quote from: rustynailer on March 16, 2015, 08:09:20 AM

Quote from: stonehedge on March 16, 2015, 08:02:50 AM

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race? What does this even mean?

They are not Dark anymore, they are Dash. Is this not a complete change in direction? Consumer adoption seems to be more the priority rather than anonymity.

The name change does not alter the underlying technology at all. DRK already has growing adoption and the hope is to increase this and speed it up. Anonymity is still a core product.

DRK want to be the next Bitcoin. Be a good coin, accepted by everyone.

It might be the death of this coin as an anon coin, seriously. If you want to see "Dash" accepted by Dell, it won't be anonymous at all.

You can't do two opposite aims at the same time. Dash will surely continue to grow, but not as an anon coin ... Roll Eyes

Some heavy supporters of DRK have already understood that, for example, Sangoku who was shouting "DarkCoin" everywhere in the French section of Bitcointalk has now stopped to support it. (And he was an heavy supporter since day one)

What a load of bullshit. How does the fact we have greater adoption than any over anon coin mean that we are less anon?

ffmad

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Activity: 868

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Quote from: stonehedge on March 16, 2015, 08:13:26 AM

Quote from: rustynailer on March 16, 2015, 08:09:20 AM

Quote from: stonehedge on March 16, 2015, 08:02:50 AM

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race? What does this even mean?

They are not Dark anymore, they are Dash. Is this not a complete change in direction? Consumer adoption seems to be more the priority rather than anonymity.

The name change does not alter the underlying technology at all. DRK already has growing adoption and the hope is to increase this and speed it up. Anonymity is still a core product.

DRK want to be the next Bitcoin. Be a good coin, accepted by everyone.

It might be the death of this coin as an anon coin, seriously. If you want to see "Dash" accepted by Dell, it won't be anonymous at all.

You can't do two opposite aims at the same time. Dash will surely continue to grow, but not as an anon coin ... Roll Eyes

Some heavy supporters of DRK have already understood that, for example, Sangoku who was shouting "DarkCoin" everywhere in the French section of Bitcointalk has now stopped to support it. (And he was an heavy supporter since day one)

rustynailer

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Haha very funny guys. Grin

stonehedge

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Decentralize Everything

Quote from: illodin on March 16, 2015, 08:18:37 AM

Quote from: stonehedge on March 16, 2015, 08:02:50 AM

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race? What does this even mean?

He got the idea from a daydream hoping drk/dash would go away so his shadow coins would make him rich.

Well I got news for him, seems like monero and navajocoin are next in line so you need to hope drk AND monero AND navajocoin all go away.

Navajo is indeed looking pretty solid. Nice and calm community too.

illodin

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Quote from: stonehedge on March 16, 2015, 08:02:50 AM

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race? What does this even mean?

He got the idea from a daydream hoping drk/dash would go away so his shadow coins would make him rich.

Well I got news for him, seems like monero and navajocoin are next in line so you need to hope drk AND monero AND navajocoin all go away.

stonehedge

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Activity: 1722

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Decentralize Everything

Quote from: rustynailer on March 16, 2015, 08:09:20 AM

Quote from: stonehedge on March 16, 2015, 08:02:50 AM

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race? What does this even mean?

They are not Dark anymore, they are Dash. Is this not a complete change in direction? Consumer adoption seems to be more the priority rather than anonymity.

The name change does not alter the underlying technology at all. DRK already has growing adoption and the hope is to increase this and speed it up. Anonymity is still a core product.

rustynailer

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Activity: 725

Merit: 501

Boycott Qatar 2022

Quote from: stonehedge on March 16, 2015, 08:02:50 AM

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race? What does this even mean?

They are not Dark anymore, they are Dash. Is this not a complete change in direction? Consumer adoption seems to be more the priority rather than anonymity.

stonehedge

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1002

Decentralize Everything

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race? What does this even mean?

rustynailer

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Activity: 725

Merit: 501

Boycott Qatar 2022

Quote from: illodin on March 16, 2015, 07:33:02 AM

Quote from: WealthyBastard on March 14, 2015, 11:13:27 PM

I'd like more DRK/XMR/SDC soldiers debate here about there projects, it could be interesting I think.

Quote from: dasource on March 16, 2015, 06:24:37 AM

Firstly, most MasterNodes(DRK) are currently hosted on VMs and that in itself is your biggest design down-fall. MN need to be "running" to provide a service and that requires a reliable and cheap place to host (so where does everyone flock to? yeah you got it Amazon, Vultr, DO etc). Where as cryptography based solution does not require this.

As someone who has spent the best part of the last 11 years in the cloud R&D arena I know how easy it is for the Big Brother to request and gain access to data from cloud providers without the end user ever knowing .. and this my friend is where MasterNodes has a major design flaw. For all you know a very large % (very very large) is already de-anonymised.

Quote from: rustynailer on March 16, 2015, 07:12:22 AM

I think this is the very reason for Dark/Dash pulling out of the anon race.

When your thread doesn't get any attention on its own merit despite taking turns pumping it up, what's left is to attack and start trolling other projects directly and hope your provocation works and they finally stop ignoring you. I guess you succeeded and I fell for it, so what the heck:

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because ~~DRK~~ DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when ~~DRK~~ DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

Where have I been trolling other projects. This is a thread about all three projects and I stated that I think Dark have pulled out of the anon race.
Is this is not a fair observation on recent events?

illodin

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Quote from: WealthyBastard on March 14, 2015, 11:13:27 PM

I'd like more DRK/XMR/SDC soldiers debate here about there projects, it could be interesting I think.

Quote from: dasource on March 16, 2015, 06:24:37 AM

Firstly, most MasterNodes(DRK) are currently hosted on VMs and that in itself is your biggest design down-fall. MN need to be "running" to provide a service and that requires a reliable and cheap place to host (so where does everyone flock to? yeah you got it Amazon, Vultr, DO etc). Where as cryptography based solution does not require this.

As someone who has spent the best part of the last 11 years in the cloud R&D arena I know how easy it is for the Big Brother to request and gain access to data from cloud providers without the end user ever knowing .. and this my friend is where MasterNodes has a major design flaw. For all you know a very large % (very very large) is already de-anonymised.

Quote from: rustynailer on March 16, 2015, 07:12:22 AM

I think this is the very reason for Dark/Dash pulling out of the anon race.

When your thread doesn't get any attention on its own merit despite taking turns pumping it up, what's left is to attack and start trolling other projects directly and hope your provocation works and they finally stop ignoring you. I guess you succeeded and I fell for it, so what the heck:

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because ~~DRK~~ DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when ~~DRK~~ DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

rustynailer

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Boycott Qatar 2022

Quote from: dasource on March 16, 2015, 06:24:37 AM

Quote from: toknormal on March 12, 2015, 03:37:12 AM

Whatever the specific comparisons on the effectiveness of cryptography vs mixing, they are largely irrelevant because darkcoin's massive redundancy and iterative approach blows away any deficiency. It's also a more holistic approach which addresses monetary priorities rather than security ones.

For a prospective monetary medium, thats the right way around in my opinion.

I would have to disagree for a number of reasons.

Firstly, most MasterNodes(DRK) are currently hosted on VMs and that in itself is your biggest design down-fall. MN need to be "running" to provide a service and that requires a reliable and cheap place to host (so where does everyone flock to? yeah you got it Amazon, Vultr, DO etc). Where as cryptography based solution does not require this.

Secondly, as our good friend at ZeroCash said "methods of analysis only get stronger" - a cryptography based solution is the only way forward IMO.

As someone who has spent the best part of the last 11 years in the cloud R&D arena I know how easy it is for the Big Brother to request and gain access to data from cloud providers without the end user ever knowing .. and this my friend is where MasterNodes has a major design flaw. For all you know a very large % (very very large) is already de-anonymised.

There are far too many people in this space who spout out tech knowledge without understanding it; very dangerous!!
Lastly, I have yet to see a solution to the "anonymity" war which is better than a cryptography based one.

I think this is the very reason for Dark/Dash pulling out of the anon race.

bitcreditscc

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Quote from: dasource on March 16, 2015, 06:24:37 AM

Quote from: toknormal on March 12, 2015, 03:37:12 AM

Whatever the specific comparisons on the effectiveness of cryptography vs mixing, they are largely irrelevant because darkcoin's massive redundancy and iterative approach blows away any deficiency. It's also a more holistic approach which addresses monetary priorities rather than security ones.

For a prospective monetary medium, thats the right way around in my opinion.

I would have to disagree for a number of reasons.

Firstly, most MasterNodes(DRK) are currently hosted on VMs and that in itself is your biggest design down-fall. MN need to be "running" to provide a service and that requires a reliable and cheap place to host (so where does everyone flock to? yeah you got it Amazon, Vultr, DO etc). Where as cryptography based solution does not require this.

Secondly, as our good friend at ZeroCash said "methods of analysis only get stronger" - a cryptography based solution is the only way forward IMO.

As someone who has spent the best part of the last 11 years in the cloud R&D arena I know how easy it is for the Big Brother to request and gain access to data from cloud providers without the end user ever knowing .. and this my friend is where MasterNodes has a major design flaw. For all you know a very large % (very very large) is already de-anonymised.

There are far too many people in this space who spout out tech knowledge without understanding it; very dangerous!!
Lastly, I have yet to see a solution to the "anonymity" war which is better than a cryptography based one.

flaws in your assesment,

MN is nothing special, it's just a wallet with extra settings enabled, there is no requirement for VPS, it's just a choice.

DRK is global, there are tons of places in the world where you can host a MN and noone will bother you.

You clearly don't understand the function of MN that is why you would say

Quote

For all you know a very large % (very very large) is already de-anonymised.

Every Wallet is a potential masternode, there is no de anonymizing the whole network.

Quote

There are far too many people in this space who spout out tech knowledge without understanding it; very dangerous!!

You fall in that category.

I do agree that Cryptographic solutions are better and are something to strive for, but there are many ways to skin a cat.

dasource

hero member

Activity: 821

Merit: 1000

Quote from: toknormal on March 12, 2015, 03:37:12 AM

Whatever the specific comparisons on the effectiveness of cryptography vs mixing, they are largely irrelevant because darkcoin's massive redundancy and iterative approach blows away any deficiency. It's also a more holistic approach which addresses monetary priorities rather than security ones.

For a prospective monetary medium, thats the right way around in my opinion.

I would have to disagree for a number of reasons.

Firstly, most MasterNodes(DRK) are currently hosted on VMs and that in itself is your biggest design down-fall. MN need to be "running" to provide a service and that requires a reliable and cheap place to host (so where does everyone flock to? yeah you got it Amazon, Vultr, DO etc). Where as cryptography based solution does not require this.

Secondly, as our good friend at ZeroCash said "methods of analysis only get stronger" - a cryptography based solution is the only way forward IMO.

As someone who has spent the best part of the last 11 years in the cloud R&D arena I know how easy it is for the Big Brother to request and gain access to data from cloud providers without the end user ever knowing .. and this my friend is where MasterNodes has a major design flaw. For all you know a very large % (very very large) is already de-anonymised.

There are far too many people in this space who spout out tech knowledge without understanding it; very dangerous!!
Lastly, I have yet to see a solution to the "anonymity" war which is better than a cryptography based one.

Topic: [DASH/XDN/XMR/SDC] Comparison between the most known anonymous coins (MUST READ) - page 20. (Read 33675 times)