Do wager affect outcomes in any provably fair games - page 7.

Eternad

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Quote from: uneng on August 03, 2023, 12:07:03 PM

The best example that it's purely coincidence is the fact gamblers use potential patterns on both directions to justify the game is rigged somehow. Like, some say when they raise their bets they start losing, because the house becomes greedy and steal them, while others say they have to raise the size of the bet in order to be rewarded by the casino, otherwise the winnings don't come to the player. Others say it's not about the bet size, but about the time you are playing.

There are theories of every kinds in an attempt to find a pattern on the game, but after all none of them work, because it's everything about luck and randomness.

It depends on what of kind game because games with determined winning chance probability can be proved if rigged or not by having huge number of sample to determine whether the winning chance rate is true or false base on the outcome.

But on games like slot games or other pure luck based that use RNG, Proving them rig is useless because the software behind this games doesn’t determine so there’s no basis to begin for determining their fairness except trust.

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Quote from: uneng on August 03, 2023, 12:07:03 PM

Quote from: Wexnident on August 02, 2023, 04:44:16 PM

Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

Coincidence. Forcing patterns into something we don't understand is something normal so I understand you forcing it like this, but it doesn't really happen. Each bet is, in essence, a separate chance from its previous bets, unless the game states otherwise. The calculations behind it afaik uses algorithms that create pseudo-random results based on, well, randomness. In essence seeing a pattern is just your brain playing with you. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have noticed that a lot of your other losses/wins had no patterns as well since, well, they were random. And we don't use that to argue that bets are completely random no?

The best example that it's purely coincidence is the fact gamblers use potential patterns on both directions to justify the game is rigged somehow. Like, some say when they raise their bets they start losing, because the house becomes greedy and steal them, while others say they have to raise the size of the bet in order to be rewarded by the casino, otherwise the winnings don't come to the player. Others say it's not about the bet size, but about the time you are playing.

There are theories of every kinds in an attempt to find a pattern on the game, but after all none of them work, because it's everything about luck and randomness.

The interesting thing is that all of them may be right, because their sample is n=1, so it is an experiment in which there is only one subject (themselves) trying to prove or disprove an statistical fact, so that is obviously the perfect setup for failure. The correct expression should by "I loose when I raise the bets, with a margin of error of 100% on this".

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on August 04, 2023, 03:55:51 AM

Quote from: Shinpako09 on August 03, 2023, 09:41:47 PM

No, the outcome has nothing to do with your wager or how long you play. They are absolutely random; you can try employing techniques or patterns, but the results will always be random. Well, I can't blame or prevent anyone from believing that a specific instance could influence the outcome because I'm guilty of thinking the same way occasionally or most of the time, possibly due to emotions.

The result will show how much we win or lose. But your wager shows how much money you use to bet. But most of the results will be lost because in gambling, the percentage of our losses can be greater than wins, so we must limit the number of bets or wagers. If you use small money, your bet or wagers will not be too big. But if you keep betting for a long time, the bet amount will increase and that will also happen with the wagers only because you can gamble for a long time. And it's different if you increase the bet amount and it will take effect quickly. So it is true that the bet will have no effect on the outcome and it is up to us to use the money.

If a wager requires a specific amount of money which is always a multiple of the bonus amount or bonus winnings from betting that a player must make during online betting, before such a player can withdraw the wins as cash, when the player bets or wagers, it is expected that during loss or wins, that certain limit will be there. The frequency of wagering while betting on an online site, should be more than sufficient to turn your bonus money into real money.
In support to what is said, a wager does little to nothing in affecting the outcome of any probably fair game. It makes instead a players withdrawal of bonuses possible.

ethereumhunter

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Quote from: Shinpako09 on August 03, 2023, 09:41:47 PM

No, the outcome has nothing to do with your wager or how long you play. They are absolutely random; you can try employing techniques or patterns, but the results will always be random. Well, I can't blame or prevent anyone from believing that a specific instance could influence the outcome because I'm guilty of thinking the same way occasionally or most of the time, possibly due to emotions.

The result will show how much we win or lose. But your wager shows how much money you use to bet. But most of the results will be lost because in gambling, the percentage of our losses can be greater than wins, so we must limit the number of bets or wagers. If you use small money, your bet or wagers will not be too big. But if you keep betting for a long time, the bet amount will increase and that will also happen with the wagers only because you can gamble for a long time. And it's different if you increase the bet amount and it will take effect quickly. So it is true that the bet will have no effect on the outcome and it is up to us to use the money.

peter0425

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Quote from: 3kpk3 on August 04, 2023, 12:50:00 AM

Quote from: uneng on August 03, 2023, 12:07:03 PM

There are theories of every kinds in an attempt to find a pattern on the game, but after all none of them work, because it's everything about luck and randomness.

It's because gamblers are usually desperate to find the so called 'winning strategy' in order to earn big money, but end up getting disappointed later on when such strategies fail in the long-term thanks to the house edge.

Yolo gambling and fixed unit betting are way better in comparison if you ask me.

Indeed , In gambling it is hypocrite to deny that we are aiming for winning but let us also consider the sideways in which the word called LOSING , because in gambling it is more to earn losses than winning and that is the sad reality.
if we will engage in gambling then best also to accept the fact that there are only few who are being friend with luck and we are just looking to be one.
YOLO might be the best to expect .

3kpk3

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Quote from: uneng on August 03, 2023, 12:07:03 PM

There are theories of every kinds in an attempt to find a pattern on the game, but after all none of them work, because it's everything about luck and randomness.

It's because gamblers are usually desperate to find the so called 'winning strategy' in order to earn big money, but end up getting disappointed later on when such strategies fail in the long-term thanks to the house edge.

Yolo gambling and fixed unit betting are way better in comparison if you ask me.

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Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

I don't think that was designed that way, maybe it was just a coincidence on your side that you feel it that way. I think this theory of yours will be invalidated when a new account hit some wins and I think when I started playing crypto gambling I never experienced that much lose but after some time, it started to decline.

Nrcewker

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Wagering doesn’t at all affect the outcomes of the next bets. It’s just our feelings that gets lucky and we think that. You can yourself verify that sometimes, when we auto bet with small amounts in higher multiplier, it gots hit after 10-20 bets. But majority of the time the multiplier doesn’t gets hit, and we bust the balance. So this proves that no matter how much you wager or how many bets you play, if the client seed is not in favour of yours, then definitely you will lose the balance. So OP this is a myth which is busted.

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Quote from: Shinpako09 on August 03, 2023, 09:41:47 PM

No, the outcome has nothing to do with your wager or how long you play. They are absolutely random; you can try employing techniques or patterns, but the results will always be random. Well, I can't blame or prevent anyone from believing that a specific instance could influence the outcome because I'm guilty of thinking the same way occasionally or most of the time, possibly due to emotions.

When we are new to gambling and have not matured yet, we might think that our experience will lead us to a consistent outcome. Unfortunately, it does not work that way, as every game has its own house edge, which always favors the house. We might win sometimes, but if we continue and consider it a long-term activity, I'm pretty sure we will all end up losing money.

Some might boast because they are winning in gambling, but no gamblers consistently win, especially in games that have a house edge. There might be exceptions for skill-based games like sports betting or card games, particularly poker.

In the end, we will realize that it's better to carefully study the game and our chances to have a realistic approach.

Shinpako09

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No, the outcome has nothing to do with your wager or how long you play. They are absolutely random; you can try employing techniques or patterns, but the results will always be random. Well, I can't blame or prevent anyone from believing that a specific instance could influence the outcome because I'm guilty of thinking the same way occasionally or most of the time, possibly due to emotions.

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Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

Obviously the longer you gamble, the higher the probability becomes that you will hit win. Unless you are implying that there are casinos that manipulate the game to keep you playing? Of course the reputable casinos would not participate in manipulation so obviously shady and public that it would ruin their reputation if they got caught. And eventually everyone gets caught. But also, the games themselves are usually from third party providers, right? So there must be oversight for fairness. Neither the casino nor the game provider would want to look bad in front of the other. So there are eyes everywhere.

Coming back to your question, there are casinos which have an open source policy. That means you can take a look behind the curtain of inner workings of their games, as long as you can read and understand the code. If not, then there are always people who can understand it and explain it to you.

TimeTeller

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Quote from: Fortify on August 03, 2023, 02:17:39 PM

Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

Casinos have spent decades, if not centuries, researching and optimizing many various psychological tricks that will entice players into spend more money with them. Every day they have vast pools of additional data to mine through and determine the patterns that an average player will take in all aspects of their account ownership. The flashy games and special promotions are all part of the act, but they are doing their best to manipulate you into spending more and luring you with false promises of victory. Even without any mechanisms that might be manipulating you automatically in the background, the simple fact is that every single bet is independent of the others and each one is weighted towards the house, so they always win in the end - they are completely upfront about the RTP percentage.

The OP is talking about if the more we wager, the better we have the chance to hit the winnings.
Which for me is not the case here, as it is gambling, so it is based on luck and the house edge of the game.
And if it is provably fair system, your wagering amount has nothing to do with the outcome of your bets.
Check about their RTP percentage and you will understand more about the results of your games.

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: uneng on August 03, 2023, 12:07:03 PM

Quote from: Wexnident on August 02, 2023, 04:44:16 PM

Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

Coincidence. Forcing patterns into something we don't understand is something normal so I understand you forcing it like this, but it doesn't really happen. Each bet is, in essence, a separate chance from its previous bets, unless the game states otherwise. The calculations behind it afaik uses algorithms that create pseudo-random results based on, well, randomness. In essence seeing a pattern is just your brain playing with you. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have noticed that a lot of your other losses/wins had no patterns as well since, well, they were random. And we don't use that to argue that bets are completely random no?

The best example that it's purely coincidence is the fact gamblers use potential patterns on both directions to justify the game is rigged somehow. Like, some say when they raise their bets they start losing, because the house becomes greedy and steal them, while others say they have to raise the size of the bet in order to be rewarded by the casino, otherwise the winnings don't come to the player. Others say it's not about the bet size, but about the time you are playing.

There are theories of every kinds in an attempt to find a pattern on the game, but after all none of them work, because it's everything about luck and randomness.

This simply means that gambling result on luck-based games is random, so yeah I agree with you. We can have a good gambling experience today and tomorrow then have a bad gambling session the next days on the same slot and provider. It was explained that luck or chance-base game result is dependent on RNG, so no matter what is our strategy or pattern we try to implement, we will never be sure about the result of the game.

Quote from: Wiwo on August 03, 2023, 01:53:21 PM

Quote from: QueenVera on August 03, 2023, 05:54:45 AM

Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

My own understanding of your statement is that the casino determine the outcome of a bet and you have more chances of winning when you wager your bet, I don't think that's possible because the outcome of gambling predictions are always determined by skills, strategies and luck and I don't think there's an interrelationship between the outcome of different bets, because the various outcomes can be determined by luck or your skills, and not the server.
Sometimes what you believe on works for you and that belief might attract goodluck and make you successful sometimes, according to your statement I've notice that you indirectly have a believe in wagering your bets and it works sometimes for you, this is not something that happens in general because some people might try this method and be unsuccessful but I work for you cause that's what you believe on therefore if you add some good skills to your believe you might be very lucky to win a jackpot someday.

Truth is that the higher your wagering the higher your chances of losing the bets and that is why most gamblers prefer to wager less since the chance of winning are limited with multiple wagering, and for that, we must have to state categorically that wagering has nothing to do with the outcome of the game.

But more also we have to be clear that wagering in multiple times reduces your chances of winning since there is no guarantee of repeated winning

I would like to take it as the higher the amount we wager the higher the amount we are about to lose Grin

. Since luck-based gambling games depends on the RNG and not on the size of our bet except when the provider itself integrated a code/script to give a set of bonus percentage on winning when wagered higher amount of money(which I think is non-existent).

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Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

Casinos have spent decades, if not centuries, researching and optimizing many various psychological tricks that will entice players into spend more money with them. Every day they have vast pools of additional data to mine through and determine the patterns that an average player will take in all aspects of their account ownership. The flashy games and special promotions are all part of the act, but they are doing their best to manipulate you into spending more and luring you with false promises of victory. Even without any mechanisms that might be manipulating you automatically in the background, the simple fact is that every single bet is independent of the others and each one is weighted towards the house, so they always win in the end - they are completely upfront about the RTP percentage.

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Quote from: QueenVera on August 03, 2023, 05:54:45 AM

Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

My own understanding of your statement is that the casino determine the outcome of a bet and you have more chances of winning when you wager your bet, I don't think that's possible because the outcome of gambling predictions are always determined by skills, strategies and luck and I don't think there's an interrelationship between the outcome of different bets, because the various outcomes can be determined by luck or your skills, and not the server.
Sometimes what you believe on works for you and that belief might attract goodluck and make you successful sometimes, according to your statement I've notice that you indirectly have a believe in wagering your bets and it works sometimes for you, this is not something that happens in general because some people might try this method and be unsuccessful but I work for you cause that's what you believe on therefore if you add some good skills to your believe you might be very lucky to win a jackpot someday.

Truth is that the higher your wagering the higher your chances of losing the bets and that is why most gamblers prefer to wager less since the chance of winning are limited with multiple wagering, and for that, we must have to state categorically that wagering has nothing to do with the outcome of the game.

But more also we have to be clear that wagering in multiple times reduces your chances of winning since there is no guarantee of repeated winning

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Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

- I don't notice what you're saying mate, as long as I play gambling it's just a game without seriousness as it's really just entertainment, there's no calculation going on. like, if I win, thank you, and if I lose, thank you priest. because I was still entertained, there was no resentment or regret for the money I used to match.

Because of the games you mentioned, I only play dice games there from time to time, I also often win there but I only get a small amount and not a large amount either.

uneng

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Quote from: Wexnident on August 02, 2023, 04:44:16 PM

Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

Coincidence. Forcing patterns into something we don't understand is something normal so I understand you forcing it like this, but it doesn't really happen. Each bet is, in essence, a separate chance from its previous bets, unless the game states otherwise. The calculations behind it afaik uses algorithms that create pseudo-random results based on, well, randomness. In essence seeing a pattern is just your brain playing with you. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have noticed that a lot of your other losses/wins had no patterns as well since, well, they were random. And we don't use that to argue that bets are completely random no?

The best example that it's purely coincidence is the fact gamblers use potential patterns on both directions to justify the game is rigged somehow. Like, some say when they raise their bets they start losing, because the house becomes greedy and steal them, while others say they have to raise the size of the bet in order to be rewarded by the casino, otherwise the winnings don't come to the player. Others say it's not about the bet size, but about the time you are playing.

There are theories of every kinds in an attempt to find a pattern on the game, but after all none of them work, because it's everything about luck and randomness.

Eureka_07

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Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

It is natural for gamblers to feel that their next bets will be a win, especially if the last bets were a streak of losses. However, that is not true. The next outcomes will always have the same win-loss percentage as the last bets. The previous bets do not have any effect on the next bets. Take, for example, the game of coin flip, where every round, you'll have a 50:50 chance of winning. But in casinos, you have to consider that they have an edge over you, so you'll have a lower chance of winning.

Doan9269

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Quote from: letteredhub on August 02, 2023, 04:52:24 PM

When playing on a probably fair games there is possibility of result repeating twice or more and as random as it is it has nothing to do with your wagering as a determinant, it was just your lucky day enjoy it while it last. Except they are not probably fair games but if they are then anything out of the ordinary is a coincidence just like other members has emphasized. There's no way out previous bets can have any link with the outcome of our next bet. In gambling luck comes in different ways.

You're right with your statement, it all depends on luck and nothing like the wager made affects the provably fair games on online gambling platforms, had it been it was so, many would have believed that things were been manipulated underground to favour gamblers on a certain conditions if met, playing games also has their respective requirements and task to do along in which some are purely by luck, bet and win if you're lucky your figures comes along with the randomized figures that the system select and you win but if not then you loose.

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Quote from: delfastTions on August 03, 2023, 02:22:03 AM

Quote from: Reatim on August 03, 2023, 01:14:55 AM

Quote from: cafter on August 02, 2023, 12:03:26 AM

I noticed that when I start to play games like keno, limbo, dice, etc. First some bets don't hit and after wagering some percentage of my balance it starts to hit,
How it works? like when we wager we have more probability to hit win, anyone noticed this? Do you know how it works and what is the calculation behind it?, do server sends outcomes by checking our wager?

Each game is design of course to give advantage to the house so expect losing first before small recovery , not unless you are the lucky one that wins comes easily such time.
and don't look straight to that Provably fair because that is not completely happening when we are dealing in those sites.

I think that a provably fair game should be fairly player neutral. This is precisely the whole essence of provable honesty algorithms in general.

However, of course, sometimes, by claiming that there is provable fairness in a particular game, an unscrupulous and dishonest casino may well use such a claim as a bait for players who think that they have the same chances to win as the casino. Although in fact this mechanism is used a little cunningly and it is extremely difficult to prove that there is a small deviation from equally probable events. So you should still treat provable honesty more like an advertising slogan than a real provision of equal chances to win.
In my opinion, this is how it works.

Exactly! The concept of provably fair algorithms is indeed intended to ensure fairness and neutrality for players. However, it is true that some unscrupulous casinos may use this idea as a marketing tactic to trick players into thinking they have the same chance of winning as the casino. We have already seen examples of casinos that either did not apply provably fair algorithms even though they claimed they do, or applied them in a wrong way so that they still enabled the manipulation of results on their part.

Proving the authenticity and effectiveness of provably fair algorithms can sometimes be a real challenge. Especially for the vast majority of gamblers who do not have the necessary skills or knowledge for such a thing. It's all about transparency, and good casinos should give clear info on how they ensure fairness. Independent audits and third-party certifications also help build trust with players.

Topic: Do wager affect outcomes in any provably fair games - page 7. (Read 1256 times)