An insightful theory you have here. You could have just linked to external animations rather than trying to break down what the provably fair system was without your dry grammar. The whole context of your thread is that you are basing your doubts based on the 3 (probably blind) people of your choosing.
In fact, your suspicions would have been more substantiated if you were to catch at least one gambling site that took advantage of this human error you speak of. You know why you couldn't because no gambling site relies on human eye to catch their errors.
This is why most gamblers don't care about where provably fair is actually enforced. They allow other entities to check that for them. And these entities are either 'smarter' people or a computer. And if a gambling house did indeed fooled its customers, then such a site would be caught easily by the snooping smart detectives we have everywhere.
Regardless of the dryness of your grammar, this was an interesting read in this section.
Topic: Do you verify every bet as a gambler? Provably Fair Guide. - page 10. (Read 4879 times)
I always copy the hash of the server seed and provide my custom client seed to avoid any manipulation. However,I don't check all the results, only when I have doubts using third party tools (if you don't trust the casino then you should not trust their verification scrypt).
If the gambling site provide a feature that is integrating a plugin from a third party where you can quickly check your server seed and client seed that will be a great addition to a gambling site's legitimacy in my opinion in fact it will be a good investment and it will generate more customers wanting to play their site.
I agree.I trust a lot more a site who claims to be provably fair and in addition to their claims it provides a third party trusted company which can verify the seed before and after the spin for example.This way I am assured as a customer as there is no possibility of cheating from the casino and this is how it should be.
This is the biggest advantage of a provably fair online game casino, which is for users to verify the outcome of the game and not just suspecting that the casino is fabricating the result for their own good.
I haven't tried to verify a singe game of mine, but with the thread you just made, I think I will do it for my future bets. For most of the people who hardly understand this topic, I advise to study these terms first:
Hash Functions,
Cryptography,
SHA256,
SHA512,
Third Party Hash Applications
I'll rephrase how I understand the verification process:
What you need is to hash the unhashed seed from the server and client, then simply compare the hashes shown by the casino to the thirdparty hashing application.
I haven't tried to verify a singe game of mine, but with the thread you just made, I think I will do it for my future bets. For most of the people who hardly understand this topic, I advise to study these terms first:
Hash Functions,
Cryptography,
SHA256,
SHA512,
Third Party Hash Applications
I'll rephrase how I understand the verification process:
What you need is to hash the unhashed seed from the server and client, then simply compare the hashes shown by the casino to the thirdparty hashing application.
This really gives me an idea on checking every bet I have made. Though I'm just small time player I never check nor verify my bet in a game. But this post makes me now realize there is other else that we can do on checking if the site is offer a provably fair. I never won actually but the site I'm paying is one of the well known online casino.
I suppose you are not the only one. I think the majority here did not think about it before the appearance of this topic, or rather, they thought about it, but no further action occurred.
Now this is already a question of interest, because in fact this is collective interaction at the forum. I will definitely check my next bet.
I mostly play at primedice for dice game and they are running since years and if they were involved into any wrong practices they would have been busted multiple times by now. Instead they got hacked by HufflePuff which makes me think the system is quite fair. Hence, when I trust a casino I don't doubt them at all.
I think that in all the top casinos the games are absolutely fair. If this were not the case, they would be very quickly caught doing it. Everything here is based on mathematics and any fraud is easy to see since everything is recorded and it is very easy for any player to get complete statistics at a distance of thousands and tens of thousands of bets.
Maybe in the past people weren't aware about it, as well as doesn't have what's within the phrase "provably fair". Now people are aware and even if something seems to be unfair in the operation soon they raise complaints. This will surely create bad reputation to the casinos. To avoid such situations casinos do legitimate service and through the house edge they make profit.Exactly. The funniest thing is that a casino makes the most profit if it works as honestly as possible. And any bias in the results relative to the theory of probability is more profitable for the players than for the casino. I read an article about this in some scientific journal, unfortunately I cannot give a link now.
I've known to checking each of our manual bets that we place on a dice site, but still not aware of checking the fairness of autobet rolls. Let's take an example of duckdice, if I play through their autobet feature and use flash in it, I won't be able to check each and every dice bet that it places. And I mostly lose on those flash bets, does it mean that the site is rigged? But what about the fact that I win sometimes when I manually play there?
I am not aware of the flash bets but surely if you cannot verify bets in the flash mode then the website can take some advantage in certain cases since they know the user is unable to verify bets so they can easily manipulate the seeds and cheat you.But that said, I would never accuse a casino for cheating just because I am losing in flash mode and win when I bet manually because that can happen normally also. The simple solution though is that you should avoid flash bets and bet manually until you get an answer from them about how we can verify flash bets.
hero member
Activity: 2912
Merit: 541
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Not many serious gamblers always check fairness because they will think about winning the games. But for the serious gamblers who check, they will need more time to place the bet or check while they are putting the bet. The reputable gambling site will not try to cheat their members because that will relate to their reputations among the gamblers. And if they do that and the members know about that, the members will leave them and will not come to their site again.
of course the gamblers who used to be investigating this will require a lot of capital but if the cheating really happens then the gambling site owners already get a lot of results from investigators because they will certainly always try it, if their reputation is bad then they will make more with the design or a different name because if you already have a gambling script it will be very easy to make it online.I guess so, but the owner will not create the new gambling site quickly because they want to hide their record after they get founded by that gambler. It is easy for the owner to buy another domain name because they already have a lot of money from the previous website, so they can hide for a while before making a new gambling site. The gamblers who investigate the site can cooperate with the other gamblers to reveal the gambling site to know the truth.
Yeah! That's obvious. Since we are hashing same number again and again and we have final hash with us, we can easily check if correct server seed is used by hashing server seed of the round times the number of rounds played so far. It has to be same with the final hash, no rocket science in that. But verifying server seed alone doesn't guarantee that result is correct. One has to calculate final result by following all steps and match with the card shown to make sure casino doesn't play any dirty in later calculation.
I agree with you that's not rocket science, but many players don't know/realize it.But I want to add it's better to play on casinos having "seed events" thread on bitcointalk because malicious ones could use different hash chains with several final hashes included in different blocks or even blockchains... On bitcointalk you can easily find their thread, and well trusted members usually quote and archive those seed datas.
But I don't find any thread or even post of this kind for tower.bet...
~quote~
Your explanation is interesting but you forgot to mention why it's important and convenient to use a hash chain : you can (easily) check if the house seed used for the game belongs to the predefined set of seeds or not.You just need to get the number (N) of the gamble and to hash the house seed N times, if you get the same hash as the one mentioned in the blockchain, it means the seed is ok.
For example if you are playing at the 6th game. You will have to hash 6 times the house seed when you will get it to check if the hash gotten is the same as the one included in the blockchain.
(In fact since its hash is displayed before playing, you can even check that by hashing this hash 5 times...)
Yeah! That's obvious. Since we are hashing same number again and again and we have final hash with us, we can easily check if correct server seed is used by hashing server seed of the round times the number of rounds played so far. It has to be same with the final hash, no rocket science in that. But verifying server seed alone doesn't guarantee that result is correct. One has to calculate final result by following all steps and match with the card shown to make sure casino doesn't play any dirty in later calculation.
If the gambling site provide a feature that is integrating a plugin from a third party where you can quickly check your server seed and client seed that will be a great addition to a gambling site's legitimacy in my opinion in fact it will be a good investment and it will generate more customers wanting to play their site.
There are already several open-source verification codes available online. Most of the reputable casinos will show the link of such scripts on their provably fair page. You just need to input your seeds in the form and correct results will be shown.
Thanks for bringing this up Danydee. I have checked the Fairness script for Hi-Lo game and it is perfectly fine. I will now explain how the provably script on Tower Bet works for Hi-Lo:
Your explanation is interesting but you forgot to mention why it's important and convenient to use a hash chain : you can (easily) check if the house seed used for the game belongs to the predefined set of seeds or not.Step 1: Generating Server Seeds
You just need to get the number (N) of the gamble and to hash the house seed N times, if you get the same hash as the one mentioned in the blockchain, it means the seed is ok.
For example if you are playing at the 6th game. You will have to hash 6 times the house seed when you will get it to check if the hash gotten is the same as the one included in the blockchain.
In fact if the house seed hash is displayed before playing (or if you know the house seed of the previous game) you could even check that by hashing this hash N-1 times (ie 5 times in this example) before playing...
I always copy the hash of the server seed and provide my custom client seed to avoid any manipulation. However,I don't check all the results, only when I have doubts using third party tools (if you don't trust the casino then you should not trust their verification scrypt).
If the gambling site provide a feature that is integrating a plugin from a third party where you can quickly check your server seed and client seed that will be a great addition to a gambling site's legitimacy in my opinion in fact it will be a good investment and it will generate more customers wanting to play their site.
I have not checked any of my bets. Now I became insanely curious about how it works and how it will look. Plus, I don’t understand why we don’t use this feature given that it’s completely free.
It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!
I think the possibility of being fair is just a figure of speech or a statement because we as users or players do not know the original script made by the gambling website creator, they may provide information about the possibility of a fair but in it there is a script where some time there are players who lose a lot.It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!
Not many serious gamblers always check fairness because they will think about winning the games. But for the serious gamblers who check, they will need more time to place the bet or check while they are putting the bet. The reputable gambling site will not try to cheat their members because that will relate to their reputations among the gamblers. And if they do that and the members know about that, the members will leave them and will not come to their site again.
I think that in all the top casinos the games are absolutely fair. If this were not the case, they would be very quickly caught doing it. Everything here is based on mathematics and any fraud is easy to see since everything is recorded and it is very easy for any player to get complete statistics at a distance of thousands and tens of thousands of bets.
Maybe in the past people weren't aware about it, as well as doesn't have what's within the phrase "provably fair". Now people are aware and even if something seems to be unfair in the operation soon they raise complaints. This will surely create bad reputation to the casinos. To avoid such situations casinos do legitimate service and through the house edge they make profit.Exactly. The funniest thing is that a casino makes the most profit if it works as honestly as possible. And any bias in the results relative to the theory of probability is more profitable for the players than for the casino. I read an article about this in some scientific journal, unfortunately I cannot give a link now.
hero member
Activity: 2912
Merit: 541
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
I have not checked any of my bets. Now I became insanely curious about how it works and how it will look. Plus, I don’t understand why we don’t use this feature given that it’s completely free.
It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!
I think the possibility of being fair is just a figure of speech or a statement because we as users or players do not know the original script made by the gambling website creator, they may provide information about the possibility of a fair but in it there is a script where some time there are players who lose a lot.It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!
Not many serious gamblers always check fairness because they will think about winning the games. But for the serious gamblers who check, they will need more time to place the bet or check while they are putting the bet. The reputable gambling site will not try to cheat their members because that will relate to their reputations among the gamblers. And if they do that and the members know about that, the members will leave them and will not come to their site again.
I have not checked any of my bets. Now I became insanely curious about how it works and how it will look. Plus, I don’t understand why we don’t use this feature given that it’s completely free.
It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!
I think the possibility of being fair is just a figure of speech or a statement because we as users or players do not know the original script made by the gambling website creator, they may provide information about the possibility of a fair but in it there is a script where some time there are players who lose a lot.It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!
To be frank, I'm very rare to verify my bets especially if I'm playing in a trusted casino. I do verify my bets some time especially when I feel something is unusual such as long loss streak and long win streak. Although I'm not that good in this kind of system but I can verify bets by using 3rd party verifier to make it easier. I also think that most gamblers especially newbies and/or recreational gamblers do not really care about this thing. As well as those who comes from fiat based casinos, I believe they do not care about it because most fiat based casinos has no provably fair system so once they move to crypto based casino then they wont care about what is this system about.
Once the casino is trusted and we were able to win sometimes as well to cash out fast in that casino there is no sense of checking the fairness especially if we were already comfortable in it. Maybe those high rollers or users who deposits way to much money is maticulous in knowing how fair the casino is. There are some calculation to determined and might also take time and effort,but I see in some post here that there are casino maybe new casinos who provide calculators to prove their casino fairness to not be doubt by new upcoming players. 
I have not checked any of my bets. Now I became insanely curious about how it works and how it will look. Plus, I don’t understand why we don’t use this feature given that it’s completely free.
It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!
I think the possibility of being fair is just a figure of speech or a statement because we as users or players do not know the original script made by the gambling website creator, they may provide information about the possibility of a fair but in it there is a script where some time there are players who lose a lot. It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!
Honestly, I am not a techy kind of person and I don't know how to verify hashes and how provably fair works. And I bet the majority of gamblers don't care much about the specifics of the system as long as the site is reputable and they are winning. This is really informative and it can help gamblers test the platform's fairness and verify bets, especially for new gambling sites.
most casino sites have their brief discussion how their provably fair system works. so even if youre not a techie one, just follow their procedure and you will learn how to verify your hash
but anyway, i rarely do it for myself also. if im playing in a known casino here, i dont usually verify my bet. maybe if its a new one, i just check it once to see if they are saying the truth bout their provable fairness..
I have not checked any of my bets. Now I became insanely curious about how it works and how it will look. Plus, I don’t understand why we don’t use this feature given that it’s completely free.
It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!
It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!
Whenever I’m playing a game online I do not check every bet I’ve made if the site really offers a provably fair system. This is very informative though I’m not that big player so the next time I'll check everything. This gives me an understanding of the process in an online game and also to many users or gamblers so this is very helpful especially to those who do not know how provably fair works.
I don't check it as well, and I don't change seeds, but I see some people in chat suggest that all the time. I saw some discussions
that it can mean something, but there're people who claim different. I am not sure in what to believe here, and I decided to not
overthink that, I just gamble with small amounts and I think I don't need to do all that, I just enjoy the gambling at some site
as it is, if I have luck I will win, if not I will lose.
Jump to: