Topic: Do you verify every bet as a gambler? Provably Fair Guide. - page 14. (Read 4879 times)
It is a helpful thread of yours and deserves to be on the top of this board, it will definitely help those who did not understand very well how to verify the provably fair system in an online gambling platform. Technically, this is really good at checking a gambling platform that the legit one, most probably those who are a newly launched gambling site. Until now I am trying to understand very well the content of your post because there some lines I did not familiar with.
Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works
). Do you think the house program will detect you are always using the same seed and will create a losing server seed for it or it has nothing to do with that? Thank you very much to explain me what you mean (or someone else here).
Yes, house can detect the client seed. This is how the house can detect your client seed:
Bet 1: I used 'myFavSeed' as my client seed. After the bet, I clicked 'new seed' and site changed server seed plus generated new client seed for me, say 'dgbeigeinwo35353'.
Bet 2: But since I love my client seed, I again changed client seed to 'myFavSeed' and played the bet. After second bet, I once again generated new seeds to verify my second bet.
Everything will go well up till here. Since server seed is generated prior to client seed, house have no way to cheat you. But here comes the catch. Suppose house is maintaining the record of every client seed that you verified like this:
User.verifiedClientSeeds = ['myFavSeed', 'myFavSeed'];
Now house can check if client seed used in first bet is same as the second, if true then house will use 'myFavSeed' as dummy client seed and generate a server seed for a specific result. This server seed's hash will be shown to you for third bet.
If you once again choose 'myFavSeed' as your client seed, the result will be same as what house decided before game. However, in games like dice this may not be very advantageous for house. House may fix that the result will be 92.68 but still have no control over Roll over/Roll under which user may choose arbitrarily. But this thing can be disastrous in case of auto bet or if house even maintains the record of your betting habits. For example, if I picked roll over 50.5 four times whereas picked roll under 49.5 eleven times. Then house can draw a trend that I like to pick roll under 49.5 so it will present me server seed such that result generated with that server seed and myFavSeed as client seed will be above 49.5.
Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works
). Do you think the house program will detect you are always using the same seed and will create a losing server seed for it or it has nothing to do with that? Thank you very much to explain me what you mean (or someone else here).
Yes, house can detect the client seed. This is how the house can detect your client seed:
Bet 1: I used 'myFavSeed' as my client seed. After the bet, I clicked 'new seed' and site changed server seed plus generated new client seed for me, say 'dgbeigeinwo35353'.
Bet 2: But since I love my client seed, I again changed client seed to 'myFavSeed' and played the bet. After second bet, I once again generated new seeds to verify my second bet.
Everything will go well up till here. Since server seed is generated prior to client seed, house have no way to cheat you. But here comes the catch. Suppose house is maintaining the record of every client seed that you verified like this:
User.verifiedClientSeeds = ['myFavSeed', 'myFavSeed'];
Now house can check if client seed used in first bet is same as the second, if true then house will use 'myFavSeed' as dummy client seed and generate a server seed for a specific result. This server seed's hash will be shown to you for third bet.
If you once again choose 'myFavSeed' as your client seed, the result will be same as what house decided before game. However, in games like dice this may not be very advantageous for house. House may fix that the result will be 92.68 but still have no control over Roll over/Roll under which user may choose arbitrarily. But this thing can be disastrous in case of auto bet or if house even maintains the record of your betting habits. For example, if I picked roll over 50.5 four times whereas picked roll under 49.5 eleven times. Then house can draw a trend that I like to pick roll under 49.5 so it will present me server seed such that result generated with that server seed and myFavSeed as client seed will be above 49.5.
I am not sure if I can check or verify the gambling site from the OP guide as I am only playing gambling on a random day, and I don't need to check to details. I don't know much about the provable system, but that is a good guide that will be useful for someone who wants to verify by themselves. However, I think the provable system itself is fair for every member, and I don't think that the reputable gambling site will cheat their members because that will have a bad effect on the website itself.
Checking provably fairness would really be useful when checking out new gambling sites out there because we wont able to know if we dont verify it and
to those reputable or known sites , they do already passed up such test thats why they do able to become big because they've proven out that their games
are fair or not rigged.This is actually helpful for those people who are really serious on checking out a site if its fair or not but most of the time
they dont really care to verify anything if they do saw that lots of people playing on such place.
But for people who don't know about the system, and they only want to test the gambling site and playing gambling, they will not care about that. They will try to search and find out if that gambling site can be trusted or not so they can deposit more money to play gambling games. I think some people who have skills to verify that gambling site will reveal it to the public to help people know if that site really has a fair system or not.
Great guide for those who are inexperienced with provably fair systems! I agree that they can be pretty complex to understand and it's a hassle to check every bet to see if it's legit, but someone's gotta do it in order to catch any inconsistencies in casinos as there's always a chance that they could be rigging just a select number of bets, not just with newer sites but more established ones as well. The cross-platform checking was something I wasn't aware existed, because I actually didn't know some sites shared these scripts. Is there anything major to look for that suggests two sites have the same provably fair scripts?
ineed its a hassel to check often but it would only be beneficial to some that bet a few big bets and you could be right , what if some of the bets are rigged and they wont notice it because they are busy with our play but once they catch it and verify that is fake , that would be a big issue to them as it can scratch their crediility especially if they are already established . and yes also , alot of sites have the same scripts , this can be seen obviously . there are some that are owned by the same owner but i dont think its possible to cross verify especially if games are different
Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works
). Do you think the house program will detect you are always using the same seed and will create a losing server seed for it or it has nothing to do with that? Thank you very much to explain me what you mean (or someone else here).
If your preferred gambling website is rigged already, then you will always lose and there is nothing like a losing server seed. New seed opens up your chances on winning more bets with it during a new session 'if you don't consider changing it at every single bet' , but if you start losing all of a sudden then just drop the site and leave because even a new seed will not help and you will lose continuously as the system catches that you are winning and the server seed also has some areas where its provided hash doesn't meet your expected criteria because of your client seed and you start losing all your bets. Even trying with a new seed will only make you win just 3-5 bets and the same story will start repeating itself ahead.
The house doesn't know what client seed you will choose/create when it generates its own, so it can't generate a losing roll...
Great guide for those who are inexperienced with provably fair systems! I agree that they can be pretty complex to understand and it's a hassle to check every bet to see if it's legit, but someone's gotta do it in order to catch any inconsistencies in casinos as there's always a chance that they could be rigging just a select number of bets, not just with newer sites but more established ones as well. The cross-platform checking was something I wasn't aware existed, because I actually didn't know some sites shared these scripts. Is there anything major to look for that suggests two sites have the same provably fair scripts?
Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works
). Do you think the house program will detect you are always using the same seed and will create a losing server seed for it or it has nothing to do with that? Thank you very much to explain me what you mean (or someone else here).
If your preferred gambling website is rigged already, then you will always lose and there is nothing like a losing server seed. New seed opens up your chances on winning more bets with it during a new session 'if you don't consider changing it at every single bet' , but if you start losing all of a sudden then just drop the site and leave because even a new seed will not help and you will lose continuously as the system catches that you are winning and the server seed also has some areas where its provided hash doesn't meet your expected criteria because of your client seed and you start losing all your bets. Even trying with a new seed will only make you win just 3-5 bets and the same story will start repeating itself ahead.
Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works
). Do you think the house program will detect you are always using the same seed and will create a losing server seed for it or it has nothing to do with that? Thank you very much to explain me what you mean (or someone else here).
I am not sure if I can check or verify the gambling site from the OP guide as I am only playing gambling on a random day, and I don't need to check to details. I don't know much about the provable system, but that is a good guide that will be useful for someone who wants to verify by themselves. However, I think the provable system itself is fair for every member, and I don't think that the reputable gambling site will cheat their members because that will have a bad effect on the website itself.
Checking provably fairness would really be useful when checking out new gambling sites out there because we wont able to know if we dont verify it and
to those reputable or known sites , they do already passed up such test thats why they do able to become big because they've proven out that their games
are fair or not rigged.This is actually helpful for those people who are really serious on checking out a site if its fair or not but most of the time
they dont really care to verify anything if they do saw that lots of people playing on such place.
thanks for the effort of putting this up but may i know if what site is it that gives incorrect verification . thats shady then , but do you already reported them ? this is bad if its happening on reputable casinos because this can damage thier reputation.
Not any particular site. I was talking to an experienced dev the other day when he told me about the possibility of manipulating seeds based upon whether user changes his client seeds or not. Since the code is written in back-end it is not easy to find out which site is cheating or not. Then I tried writing the code to do so and yes, it is possible to manipulate the seeds. However, my code have some front-end trails which when looked carefully show that something fishy going on. But I am pretty sure that someone more experienced coder than me can mutate front-end code in the way that it might become almost impossible to find out that your front-end seeds are being manipulated from back-end.
Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.
I believe gambling houses must work on simplifying these things so that even non-computer literature people also will be able to verify them with just one click.
I believe gambling houses must work on simplifying these things so that even non-computer literature people also will be able to verify them with just one click.
Well, you don't have to do everything on your own. Almost every gambling site provides the way to verify your bets. The site will either provide you a form to fill your seeds and display the result or provide you the bare code which you can simply paste in Notepad, edit your seeds in code and save the file with .html extension. Then you just have to open that file in browser to display your result.
Also, I am planing to make a site where I will review the provably fair script of most of the gambling sites and provide the form for users to verify their bets independently for each site. But since it is huge work to do, I cannot promise the date. Maybe will create in 2 months or so.
And lastly, I would like to thank everyone who liked and appreciated the thread. I think I could make few changes in OP to make this thread more productive. Will do that in free time.
I my self had played several times online but honestly, I don't know how to verify hashes and how provably fair works since I am not a person who is knowledgeable technically. The guides and information provided by OP is informative and useful to verify the provably fair system of the platform you are frequently using. Thank you for sharing.
I am not sure if I can check or verify the gambling site from the OP guide as I am only playing gambling on a random day, and I don't need to check to details. I don't know much about the provable system, but that is a good guide that will be useful for someone who wants to verify by themselves. However, I think the provable system itself is fair for every member, and I don't think that the reputable gambling site will cheat their members because that will have a bad effect on the website itself.
Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.
OP gave an example on how to verify the results you got. It doesn't require a lot of knowledge and you are not going to do anything manually. Just use a third party website to give you the seeds hash or use the verification scrypt of another casino that has the same provably fair algorithm.Or most of the legit casino sites has basic tutorial on how to verify their provably fair system. And if you are still in doubt, you can double check the procedure with other popular gambling sites because verifying your results has basically straightforward steps and almost the same with every casino. Though I am not really checking every bet of mine, but if I have bet larger than my normal bet, I see to it that I checked its provable fairness afterwards. Just a random check would make you feel that you are safe with your casino site.
Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf6ZxDXvU7o
Im not affiliated with the site but just for the purpose on showing off on screen on how to verify bets.It doesnt really require technical knowledge though yet following on how
to verify bets isnt really that hard.
Some people or players are really keen on checking out provably fairness but on my side, i do play on site which had been played out by the majority.
Great works on defining how Provably Fair works. As a player who uses auto roll function, I seldom check the hashes of both client, server seed and its nonce. All that goes in me is trust in the site I am playing with. And if ever I got a doubt on the result,( with the thousands of bets done on an auto roll, it will be a waste of time verifying the hashes of each roll,) so I just pick a random hash and verify it and done.
Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.
OP gave an example on how to verify the results you got. It doesn't require a lot of knowledge and you are not going to do anything manually. Just use a third party website to give you the seeds hash or use the verification scrypt of another casino that has the same provably fair algorithm.Or most of the legit casino sites has basic tutorial on how to verify their provably fair system. And if you are still in doubt, you can double check the procedure with other popular gambling sites because verifying your results has basically straightforward steps and almost the same with every casino. Though I am not really checking every bet of mine, but if I have bet larger than my normal bet, I see to it that I checked its provable fairness afterwards. Just a random check would make you feel that you are safe with your casino site.
Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.
OP gave an example on how to verify the results you got. It doesn't require a lot of knowledge and you are not going to do anything manually. Just use a third party website to give you the seeds hash or use the verification scrypt of another casino that has the same provably fair algorithm. 
If we understand the math and crypto behind the provably fair engine, then we can trust the casino. If something doesn't look fine, then we show stay away from it.
The last provably fair engine i read about was the one of Luckybit. They use a client seed, server seed, and a seed_nonce... Since we have control of the 3 factors, then we can trust their engine.
The last provably fair engine i read about was the one of Luckybit. They use a client seed, server seed, and a seed_nonce... Since we have control of the 3 factors, then we can trust their engine.
I'm not believing in to probably fair system because in real life there are less possibility for continue losing streak but in almost all the to gambling houses continue losing streaks are happening most commonly. This makes we need much more improvements/developments to fine-tune so that those provably fair mechanism will be actually fair for all of us.
Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.
I believe gambling houses must work on simplifying these things so that even non-computer literature people also will be able to verify them with just one click.
Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.
I believe gambling houses must work on simplifying these things so that even non-computer literature people also will be able to verify them with just one click.
Thank you for the thread. To be honest I am not 100% sure of how to check for provably fair on every site I own some money at but the one I play the most I do check, and you are right, I think most of us actually do not always regularly check but we should. We owe it to ourselves and the community,,, especially when we get losing bets;) or rare results. Hard to check everything on autobet, maybe there should be a system to do it easily.
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