Topic: Foundation Passport Official Thread - page 2. (Read 6950 times)

I saw the video of the product presentation today on their website. I must admit that I was a bit hesitant about the inclusion of Bluetooth, since we can transfer information (PSBT signals, etc.) via QR code...

I was in doubt between buying a Coldcard Q or waiting for the launch of this new Passport Prime. Coldcard is one step ahead because it's the most complete HW I know and because it's the only HW with BIP-85 passwords.

I liked the design, but I still haven't figured out why they are asking for the price they are asking for. We still have little information about the product.

But I liked the fact that the product's screen is larger and has a touchscreen, because the alphanumeric keyboard present in most hardware wallets, even the current ones, and those 2 ridiculous buttons on Ledger devices from the Nano line (S, S+ and X) have reached their limit for me, especially for those who need to access the wallet with a passphrase every time to connect. There are few devices with a QWERT keyboard or touchscreen with QWERT on the market. It was about time that changed.

What will be the next brand to launch a device with a large screen and/or touchscreen, Trezor?

Not a bit. For instance, Yubikey, being a battery-less device, ticks along.



So, we are different on this matter ^{but your view is understandable}. I perceive this crypto-combine as fixed place device residing somewhere in my house rather than a wearable technology. Thus it would not impose any problem to connect it to power bank. It is much more convenient that potential replacement of non-removable inner battery that may be out off commission at any moment. ^{BTW, Li-batteries especially Li-ion are spontaneous-combustion- biased.}  

My understanding is that Passport Prime is going to use unique open source dumb down operation system, but I am interested to see how it will work in real life.
Apps are going to be supported for adding support for other coins, but this is not going to be like regular android OS.
I think Prime is going to be better than Keystone and similar devices, but it's going to be more expensive also.

That would be amazing to see, and I like reading your reviews

I would find such a solution a bit odd and also inconvenient (works just fine for my BitBox02 or Trezor). Personally, I think I could live with it, but I'm quite sure "the market" or other users in majority won't accept such a battery-less device (how does the device keep track of time, btw, which is needed for TOTP and likely other stuff?).

It's not rocket science to construct a user-serviceable water-resistant or even water-proof battery compartment. It's just not in the interest of the manufacturer. Consumers have swallowed this bitter pill already on other popular mobile gear. This then became the "common sense". Naa, no thanks for that.

No, I think this is the wrong solution to a product life limiting problem. I don't want to stress this particular design decission too much. There's a software solution for this and the manufacturer could provide it as an advanced option. Simply allow an option to not fully charge the battery and limit it to some longevity prolonging upper limit.

Li-batteries hate it to be discharged too much and being charged near full capacity is stressful. Usually the Li-battery chemistry is also more aggressive when it is at high charge levels and this is what wears out batteries faster.

^{Just off the top of my head after reading your post}, wouldn't be better if this device had no battery at all and was powered exclusively via powerbank? I think, technically such solution would not touch off any tech issues  and ^{at same time} be a boom to both size and weight ^{and probably price}. What are your thoughts on this idea? 

I have watched the "keynote" video. I'm still not quite sure to grasp all the functions and options of the device. Sure, the "keynote" wasn't intended to present every single detail of the new device.

My first impressions, likely by no means complete:

• looks nice, though I don't like curved glass edges
  (makes glass protectors a nightmare, if you want or need one, especially if daily or on-the-go use is intended; Gorilla glass will scratch at some point, too)
• somewhat on the expensive side, though I admit, I can't fully grasp what all this device offers me
  (I'm willing to give Foundation Devices some bonus for their remarkable effords to open-source hardware and software and not assembling their stuff in "cheap" labour countries with questionable conditions for workers)
• an internal, not easily replacable battery is kind of planned obsolescence and not what I expected from Foundation Devices
  (give users at least an option to limit charging to 50% or 60% to maximize battery life; regarding the price point of the device, I wouldn't like it to have a battery life of only a few years; will it last 5 or 10 years?)
• this device seems to me a bit too much focussed on mobile wallets like Envoy or similar; I'm not a proponent of mobile wallets, except maybe for small amounts
• this end-to-end encrypted Bluetooth connection likely needs a specific app (like Envoy) on the mobile app side, seems thus rather limited to me; and holy-moly this QuantumLink blabber almost broke my bullshit bingo buzz words detector
  (kindly enlighten me, how this is better than air-gapped data exchange via QR codes or did I misunderstand the emphasis? Passport Prime surely can still do the QR code thing, at least I hope it doesn't regress compared to Passport 2)
• I'm not thrilled by the option to have it as a seed vault; it's not exactly advertised as a single point of failure; users shouldn't skip to have redundant analog and physical seed backups
• how many passkeys can it store?
• can I use passkeys easily with a desktop or laptop (the "keynote" only showed mobile phone usage via NFC)?
• I like the concept of KeyOS as a platform for other crypto apps and not doing it the fucked-up Ledger way
• KeyOS is new and being written in Rust doesn't make it immune to security issues; I just want to say it has to prove it's resilience and security, yet

I'm a bit baffled, what does Passport Prime all offer? I can't answer this to enough extend, no extensive product documentation on their website or I'm blind. Sounds like a somewhat cool device, but because my focus is less on mobile phone usage, I'm not sure if it's something for me, especially concerning it's price.

Divided and undetermined and the internal not-user-servicable battery sucks!

 Hmm, Passport Prime for everyday  routine  ... in no circumstances. To that end  I  already utilize   the price affordable  and more useful gears ^{like the bank-card-size Tangem wallet to keep small sum of various coins (BTC including) to top up my crypto cards when needed and Yubikey 5 to authorize myself on various sites} , .

 Regarding  encrypted storage, I can not even imagine that "on-the-go-angle" which would force me to delve into my encrypted data  ^{SEEDs, database for password manager,  file which keeps my pgp  keys (both parts, private and public), BTW private part is also kept by one of the slots of Yubikey 5, which I may use to decrypt  stuff on-the-go .} Nevertheless I would appreciate  if Foundation develop  the dedicated, toch-screen equipped,  airgaped and price-affordable  device ^{run by their  new OS KeyOS and at the same time independent on computer} with the sole purpose to keep encrypted data  and with the size less than  Kingston IronKey Vault Privacy  External SSD which, ^{in my view} has the following drawbacks to use it on-the-go:  firstly,  it  is a bit bulky and ^{what is more important} requires connection to computer . I have the small size Kingston IronKey Vault Privacy 50  USB gear but to  be functional t has to be connected to computer, the action which is supposed to be not performed on the go. ^{Besides, it is OS dependable}.

While I still love my Foundation Passport device(s), and it's my go-to recommendation for hardware wallets, I agree that there should be a 'Passport Lite' of some sorts, based on the Batch 2 device but with some cost cuttings. Some items come to mind like its premium finish (cast metal), color display, and SD card slot that could be eliminated. A plastic device with monochrome display and manual seed backup at a decent price would be welcome.
The codebase also already exists and runs on 2 different kinds of hardware, so little additional costs there, and there would be the option to base it on the existing founders edition PCB, too.

How about using a Passport Prime for everyday usage (small amount of BTC, 2FA codes, and e.g. encrypted files that you need on the go) and a Passport stored in a safe place for bigger sums?
Though I don't think Prime as an everyday device will make sense in combination with its ability of storing seed backups, as you typically wouldn't want to carry those around with you under any circumstance.
However, the fact that it will allow us to develop custom apps for it, makes it very interesting to me for this 'everyday usage' scenario. It could be something like a secondary smartphone for security-critical stuff that you don't want to keep on your actual phone. I still need to watch the presentation, but I'm quite sure this thing won't be based on regular Android / Linux / other big OS that's full of functionality, but also potential bugs and security flaws.

---

I do plan do get one of these Passport Prime devices; not sure if I personally need it, but I'll buy it with my own money and review it here for you guys in depth, as always!

Neither of two can be viewed as alternative to Yubikey ^{from 5th series} which supports FIDO2, U2f, PIV, OATH ^{TOTP and HOTP}, OTP ^{including HMAC-SHA1 Challenge-Response and Static Password}  and OpenPGP standards. I assume that "nobody complained about it" because nobody used obsolete FIDO.

^{Once again,} I prefer to have the separate specialized  gears  ^{like wallet, security key , encrypted storage, etc. that have advanced features}. rather then a single ^{highly priced} crypto-combine were some parts  may be short-tailed. Such setup gives me more flexibility  in security and heritage  schemes as applied to my stash. ^{For instance, using this technique  I have openly spread  my SEED phrases over the whole word keeping them at my relatives and friends. How could I do it with the use of crypto combine other that to spend the fortune to buy dozens of its instances?}


It is also not unthinkable that bit-flips ^{resulted from cosmic rays, for instance}  events  may happen sometimes, thus, the sole instance of any multi-purpose device ^{Passport Prime including} is not a secure  solution for my sensitive data .

They seem to be designing the device to be waterproof, which Zach discussed towards the end of his interview with Vlad Costea in the Bitcoin Takeover Podcast.

I don't see the problem with this, both trezor and ledger had 2fa FIDO (as Yubikey alternative) a long time ago and nobody complained about it.
I find this useful and it's not like keep everything on your smartphone, that most people are doing already.
You don't have to use extra stuff if you don't want to, and you are getting three NFC backup KeyCards.

For reserve price of $299 Passport Prime is a bit expensive for me, but I would suggest listening  introduction video on their website to understand how it is going to work:
https://foundation.xyz/passport-prime/

I am looking on images of Passport Prime and it appears to me that back of the device could be removable.
That is what I would prefer.





Encrypted bluetooth sounds interesting, as well as ability to use Passport Prime with Cake wallet for monero support.

I still haven't seen the keynote and the more detailed announcements of the device, but having a non-removable battery does look like a step back of their current offering in Passport batch 2. Does the device have any kind of certification? IP67 or 68 that justifies the sealing of the battery?

They preferred to go into luxury class adding to good wallet ^{Passport 2} the  disputable juices that increased the price to $299

BTW, their new stuff, namely Passport Prime, has the build-in battery  ^{which I think  is the wrong approach  from their part even when this battery is 1100 mAh lithium ion one}. Rolling bunch of various purpose gears into one case implies their  intensive use. I wander how long will this battery last and who will replace it ^{when  needed}.  

This is a great concept and I hope the execution will be of the same quality as their passport hardware wallet.

It's great to see real innovation in this space and I wish them well. Having watched the video I like what I see, but I'll also now spend more time to understand it in detail.

Thanks for those links, and Idid watch the 20-minute presentation at 1.5x.

Surely I cannot be opposed to any attempts to innovate, and hopefully their code is getting plenty of review, including if there might be early releases for alpha testers / developers.  I am not up to task for being any kind of a guinea pig since there seem to be quite a few innovations, and surely I share concerns about having so many features in one device.. supposedly easy to use and secure at the same time.  We likely know that there are so many companies that do want to attempt to put themselves as a one-stop shopping location, and with bitcoin we also likely know that there are a lot of user-interface kinds of concerns, so accomplishing user friendliness, security and privacy are laudable aspirations, if accomplishing all of those might be possible.

Sorry for that. ^{I though it would be easy for everyone to find the relevant link}. Here it is I would advocate to watch the video ^{titled as watch keynote} on this page to get better understanding of Passport Prime.

P.S. Added link to my previous post.

We had known that the announcement was going to be today, yet you did not even include a link.  I have not seen anything of the actual announcement beyond your summary (and sure I am not going to proclaim that anything in your summary is misrepresenting anything, but still.. would be nice to see an actual link.

So this is wallet, SEED generator, 2FA  authenticator, security key, encrypted storage,  SEED vault ^{what else}   rolled into one.

^{So to say} the single device for potential losing of everything valuable.

They suggest to replace Yubikey with this device. Are they kidding? To be on safe side one need to register a few securities keys on valuable  sites which accept authorization via such keys. ^{I have three instances of Yubico registered on each site like gmail, proton, dropbox and other valuable ones.  Do they think think I would buy three instances of Passport Prime? Ridiculous, give me a break..}

Personally, I'm very disappointed ^{with this crypto rig}.

Relevant link.

I like your way of thinking satscraper. For sure a lower priced device would be able to increase their customer base who find that Foundation Passport if off limits to them cost wise. We are very close to know what this device might be, and I couldn't be more excited about it.

If Zach Herbert has not changed his mind from what he said back in 2023


they may launch the product similar to Bitkey but equipped with display ^{teaser refereed  above by foundationdvcs clearly shows the screen on their new product}. If my memory serves me right the lack of display on any wallet is exactly one of those drawbacks mentioned by Zach in his blog.